Black paint to prevent rust?


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1911JMB
January 9, 2006, 08:27 PM
Yesterday I shot in the rain at an outdoor range. When I got home late I decided to leave the cleaning for early this morning before work. It was rainy, the guns got wet, and of course 16 hours in wet cases will rust guns with a blued finish. I know all about proper lubrication and gun maintainance. Besides being a devoted gun nut, I'm a skilled tradesmen, but I screwed up. I didn't so much as spray them with Rem Clean, and I payed for it with 2 hours of steel wooling and wire brushing this morning. My Sig P220, 1911, Remington 870, Yugo SKS, Mauser, and 10/22 were all coated with light, but wide spread surface rust.

This debacle made me wonder, how good of an idea would it be to cover the external non-moving metal parts of my guns with black paint? (The external surfaces like the barrels, slides, and recievers.) Thats what I do to my high carbon steel headed Death Stick framing hammer, and it seems to work fairly well. I know that paint would help prevent rust, but would it permanently screw up the finish or cause any other problems that I'm not thinking of? My theory is that paint could be easily removed with acetone or something if desired. Please bear in mind that none of my guns are show pieces, they are all well used. Ugly but functional is fine with me, as is the obvious need for occasional repainting if you guys don't talk me out of this painting idea.

Again, I don't need any suggestions about Silicone cloth, Marine Tough Cloth, CLP, or anything else about proper maintainance, I just screwed up, and I know exactly what I SHOULD have done. Plus, I forgot to mention, I know I can get my guns refinished with nickel or stainless or something, but I am thinking more along the lines of cheap.

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obm
January 9, 2006, 08:42 PM
good black paints i would recommend are: KG-Gunkote, Duracoat and Black-T.

first two you can do yourself.

using regular paint may be problematic, the gun paints above are made to handle hot barrels.

Koobuh
January 9, 2006, 08:47 PM
A lot of the old Russian weapons were slathered generously with black paint rather than bluing, and it seems to work pretty well.
You might look into the various coatings that are available in colors, like Duracoat, as they are a hard (not just a bluing salts dip) coat that stands up well to use.
Just painting on works OK, but heat curing the painted parts works best. A dedicated stove is preferable, because you won't want to cook in one you've used for this duty.

TarpleyG
January 9, 2006, 09:04 PM
Just have them refinished with something like Robar's Roguard or something? Almost guaranteed not to rust on you then.

http://www.robarguns.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=4&tabindex=2

Greg

1911JMB
January 9, 2006, 09:06 PM
Koobah,

I only have one oven, and I don't want to mess it up. Would a heatgun properly do heat curing, or do you need more heat? Would a torch work? I'm new to this idea.

dfariswheel
January 9, 2006, 09:20 PM
Heat guns and torches will NOT work.
You need an oven for the heat-cure finishes.

Brownell's does sell gun coatings that don't need heat to cure.
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1117&title=ALUMA-HYDE+II

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=17640&title=DURACOAT+PAINTING+SYSTEM

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=1164&title=METAL-COAT+EPOXY

As the British, Belgian's, and French discovered back around the Second World War, paint is actually a superior protective finish for guns.
Before the gun can rust the paint has to be worn off to bare metal.

Other advantages are, it's easy to touch up worn areas, and you can have about any color of gun you want, including camo.

Sir Aardvark
January 9, 2006, 09:27 PM
Paint would probably work; Rustoleum makes a High-Temp Bar-Be-Que paint that is flat black, but you would probably get better results from a product that is designed for guns.

Check out Brownell's website and check out their spray-on oven-cure finishes, they are not as cheap as paint, but are cheaper than hard chrome and Roguard.

the following is from Brownell's website:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/General/DisplayPDF.aspx?f=bt002050.pdf

Spray-On Oven-Cure Finishes
by: Tim Dillon
Our Spray-On, Oven-Cure Finishes have become quite popular with gunsmiths because they are so easy to use and they
provide a first-class looking finish in only a matter of minutes. Brownells Aerosol Baking Lacquer was the first that was
developed. It was an outgrowth of the liquid Baking Lacquers because so many customers that had tried them requested
an easier method of application. Brownells Teflon®/ Moly Oven Cure Gun Finish was a further refinement of the
aerosol process that incorporates two, highly effective lubricants into a single application. The Teflon/Moly finish is the
right choice when maintaining tolerances between close-fitting parts is important.
We’ve tested both finishes extensively and there are some common links that apply if you want to achieve good looking
results. It is important to apply multiple light coats to the surface in order to achieve a smooth, even coating. Most
importantly, both of these finishes are highly reactive to heat. Prewarming the part before applying the spray helps to dry
the paint quickly so you can apply additional coats sooner. Heat the part until it is just warm to the touch, about 95° F. I
also use a blow dryer at the same time as I’m spraying to dry the paint almost as soon as it hits the surface. This is
especially critical if you are painting in less than 65° F. temperature. Aim the warm air from the blow dryer at the surface
and spray the paint at the same area letting the paint mix with the warm air as it is applied to the surface. This allows the
spray to dry very quickly onto the surface letting you avoid the “dreaded runs”. Do not get the blow dryer closer than 12”
and do not get the part so hot that the paint begins to curl.
If a run does occur, let the paint dry and lightly sand the run from the surface with 400 grit wet-or-dry abrasive paper, then
respray the affected area.
The spray-on/ oven-bake finishes tend to level themselves out when they are baked, so slight surface imperfections won’t
show after baking.
Allow the finish to fully dry to the touch before baking. Here are two tips that will improve your results when baking small
parts like pins. Use a pie tin that has ventilation holes punched in the bottom. You can lay the parts flat on the tin and you
will not get baking marks on the side that is touching the pie tin. Or, attach small parts to a cast iron magnet and hang the
magnet by a piece of wire from the upper oven rack.
Hopefully, these tech tips will make using our spray-on/oven-bake finishes easier. We are currently working on bringing
out additional colors of the Oven Cure Gun Finish, and we’ll keep you posted as they become available. Here’s a listing of
the colors and selections we have available.

obm
January 9, 2006, 09:33 PM
Koobah,
I only have one oven, and I don't want to mess it up. Would a heatgun properly do heat curing, or do you need more heat? Would a torch work? I'm new to this idea.
you should check w/duracoat, i believe you don't have to oven cure their product...it just takes longer to cure if you don't use an oven.

http://www.lauerweaponry.com/

1911JMB
January 9, 2006, 09:44 PM
Does anybody know many guns could I coat with that 50 dollar duracoat kit?

Don't Tread On Me
January 9, 2006, 09:46 PM
Well...that's why I hate blued rifles. Hell, I don't like parkerizing if I can avoid it. Stainless steel or Chrome is my choice whenever possible, followed by quality park.


I know you don't want to hear this, but CLP IS the undisputed king of rust prevention in my book. I've done a torture test here at home with identical piece of metal, salt water spray over the course of days, and about 10 different oils, and let's just say all I use is CLP, and preferably LP which lasts longer and is thicker.



I have 1 blued rifle, and I treat it like gold. Even fingerprints can leave blemishes on the metal if left for a long time. Blueing is the worst. The parked guns I have are my AR's and that's the barrels and internal parts. The barrels have a nice thick well done finish, and they don't rust unless they get scratched or gouged. I am never getting another blued firearm again. I am very picky like that.


Paint is NO good on guns imo. I hate paint. It is difficult to apply properly on metal, let alone a gun. Trust me, my family has been in structural steel painting for 40 years, and coating metal is not easy for longevity. Most coatings are not durable to abrasion.


A MAK-90 I've shot had been painted forward of the gas block. The flash hider, barrel, sight post forward of gas block were painted black. I rapid fired 1 magazine, and it wasn't really that rapid - and the heat cooked off most of the paint, cracked the rest. Perhaps paints designed for engine blocks or barbeques might work with heat better...Best would be refinishing, but that's expensive. A place here near where I live in Safety Harbor does seriously professional refinishing and chroming. Accurate Plating is their name.


Bottom line, avoid water at all costs. Treat your guns as if they are your life. Get a gun wet, clean it ASAP and oil it well. I use an aircompressor to blast them out. If you don't have compressed air, use WD-40...I hate WD-40 for use on guns, but in this case its being used EXACTLY for what it was designed for - water displacement.

obm
January 9, 2006, 10:51 PM
Does anybody know many guns could I coat with that 50 dollar duracoat kit?
http://www.lauerweaponry.com/images/duracoat_faqs.cfm

JohnKSa
January 9, 2006, 11:17 PM
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Muffler/exhaust system paint will hold up to heat. I've seen more than one recommend for grill paint as well--besides those on this thread.

bogie
January 9, 2006, 11:33 PM
What _is_ this infatuation with black paint?

Guys, be different... Pink, purple, green, whatever... Make 'em think...

Tokugawa
January 9, 2006, 11:37 PM
what rusted your guns was leaving them in a case where the water couldn't evaporate.

1911JMB
January 9, 2006, 11:37 PM
Thanks to all for the advise. I will be trying out duracoat.

Farnham
January 9, 2006, 11:38 PM
Just saw an Ishapore Enfield at the gunshow this weekend with "original" finish. Looked a lot like black Krylon to me. I hear BBQ paint works, too.

S/F

Farnham

asknight
January 9, 2006, 11:43 PM
If you don't want to clean your guns immediately after getting them wet, then WD-40 is your friend. That's what it was designed for... water displacement.

Read This (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=503)

hso
January 10, 2006, 01:01 AM
Get Renaissance Wax or White Lighting and liberally coat all surfaces after you've cleaned them. Allow either to dry to a white haze and then hand buff. I've got carbon steel knives that this protects effectively and I've never had a firearm rust that's been treated this way.

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=2225&sku=9294&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

ball3006
January 10, 2006, 03:58 PM
with LPS2. It is a milspec rust preventative and lube which dries. Leaving them in the case did not do them any good, as posted above.......chris3

bosshoff
January 10, 2006, 06:38 PM
Excellent link and or post Asknight! I love posts with actual scientific testing and or proof behind claims.

redneck2
January 10, 2006, 06:52 PM
god, you guys are Phillistines

take the freaking guns out of the wet cases and wipe them off. I've got blued guns that I've had for over 20 years. I've duck and deer hunted in pouring rain. My 870's taken more game than you can imagine and it looks great

anybody that would paint a gun with barn paint ought to be beaten with a club and have their guns taken from them

Get wild and crazy and spend $5.95 on a Rigg rag and use it

justashooter
January 10, 2006, 07:14 PM
as a member of "the black rifle club" i can inform that duplicolor #1634 is a wonderful solution to the problem in question. you can find it in a rattle can at your auto parts store. it is sold as a 500* engine paint.

sandblast if possible, being careful to protect sliding surfaces, parkerise if you have the equipment, or a friend who does, degrease with braakleen, and paint. allow to tack dry, and bake in your kitchen oven at 200* until the stink stops (about an hour). allow to cool before handling. this finish will last for years.

i remember a weekend of rain while tent camping with a nefarious bunch known as the "mason-dixon fal club". during this time a newly restored polish underfolder in unissued blue hung from a tentpole. a refurbed romanian underfolder in black paint hung beside it. guess which rifle was undisturbed by the mountain mist.

you need to keep your powder dry, but with a good black paint over parkerising (or not), you can leave your chrome bored guns wet all week. remember the jug, so you can keep your whistle wet, too.

Kodiaz
January 10, 2006, 08:40 PM
Wait for me before you paint your gun.

I live in Fl my buddy has had a boat for years he always sprays the engine with LPS 3 it leaves a coating the sticks to metal and protects it that engine has no rust on it it still looks new

waterhouse
January 10, 2006, 09:00 PM
here's my 870 Krylon project. Several months in the trunk (granted, it hasn't rained much lately) and not even a sign of rust.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=156099&highlight=krylon

Cost about $5 with the primer

birddog
January 10, 2006, 10:18 PM
Paint would probably work; Rustoleum makes a High-Temp Bar-Be-Que paint that is flat black, but you would probably get better results from a product that is designed for guns.

Funny you should mention that. Friend of mine did his Remington 1100 shotgun in Hi-Temp Bar-Be-Cue black a couple of years ago. Stock, barrel, the whole works. That paint job -- while not the most beautiful finish ever devised -- has held up through many duck and turkey hunts. It's not a bad idea!

palerider1
January 11, 2006, 02:28 AM
black wood burning stove paint might work, although i would rather clean my guns right away insted of painting them.:)

palerider1

jpmc
January 11, 2006, 12:52 PM
HSO is right, any carnuba car wax will stop rust in its tracks. I have all my blued guns waxed this way and haven't had any rust in years. Also it is invisible on the blueing, and will let them look natural.:D

belton-deer-hunter
January 11, 2006, 01:10 PM
this is gonna sound stupid but "true-oil" for the gun stocks if applied in larg ammounts to the barrel forms a clear coat over it to prtect it i did it to a little H&R pistol i used to have

ball3006
January 11, 2006, 01:23 PM
It works great for long term gun storage but if used on a regularly used gun would leave greasy/tacky stuff on your hands and clothes. LPS 2 is for everyday use as it dries and leaves a rust prohibiting film......good stuff, we use it in the aviation industry......chris3

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