Weird question about de-cocking.


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shotgunner
January 10, 2006, 03:10 PM
When your gun, or arm ejects the last casing/shell. How would you close the action, but de-cock the gun safely? Meaning w/o dry-firing it?

For instance.
Glock
The last case ejects, you close the action, and insert your carry magazine. How would you de-cock it without dry-firing?

Pump-gun
How would you de-cock after you've ejected the last shell, but you want to keep the action closed?

I'm asking this because my firing pins can remain under tension for months at a time, therefore increasing the chances of the springs taking a "set" and dueling out light strikes against primer caps.

Would snap caps be a good idea? Or do they even hold the firing pin back slightly?
Think I'm being paranoid??

I appreciate the feedback!

Thanks in advance!

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rchernandez
January 10, 2006, 03:16 PM
Don't know of any other way on a Glock. Won't hurt it. Same goes for the pump.

Only concerned with Rimfire but snap caps do a good enough job.


Relax...:cool:

Black Majik
January 10, 2006, 03:26 PM
Only DA/SA guns can be safely decocked. If it doesn't have a decocker, dont decock it!

The Glock is technically a DAO gun. There is no way to decock it. Plus there is no reason to decock it. If you want the gun uncocked, make sure the gun is unloaded and dryfire in a safe direction. Same goes with the shotgun, except that's not a DAO gun.

Henry Bowman
January 10, 2006, 03:27 PM
I'm asking this because my firing pins can remain under tension for months at a time, therefore increasing the chances of the springs taking a "set" and dueling out light strikes against primer caps.I think you are way over-stating this preceived problem. Spring fatigue by use, i.e., flexing movement, not from being held compressed.

Think I'm being paranoid??Yes, or at least concerned about a baseless issue.:)

Thefabulousfink
January 10, 2006, 06:21 PM
Only DA/SA guns can be safely decocked. If it doesn't have a decocker, dont decock it!

The Glock is technically a DAO gun. There is no way to decock it. Plus there is no reason to decock it. If you want the gun uncocked, make sure the gun is unloaded and dryfire in a safe direction. Same goes with the shotgun, except that's not a DAO gun.

What do you do with a SA gun then? would you leave a 1911 or a Colt SAA cocked all the time?:neener:

Azrael256
January 10, 2006, 06:31 PM
Uh, I dunno about your guns, but my firing pin spring remains compressed unless I remove the firing pin stop. Actually, all the springs on my guns sit under compression all the time. Even my unloaded magazine springs are under tension. A great deal has been made of spring fatigue. Very little of it is worth the concern.

Black Majik
January 10, 2006, 06:35 PM
What do you do with a SA gun then? would you leave a 1911 or a Colt SAA cocked all the time?:neener:

LOL. well.... you means you dont leave your guns loaded all the time?!? :evil:

Double Maduro
January 10, 2006, 06:36 PM
Thefabulousfink,

When I carried my 1911 it was cocked all the time it was loaded. Both the 1911 and the SAA can be decocked safely, loaded or unloaded, I believe that is what the "half cock" notch is for.

On the 2 examples asked about, don't worry about it.

DM

gremlin_bros
January 10, 2006, 06:40 PM
glock is a dao meanint it isnt cocked till you pull the trigger this is one of the reasons i use eather a da/sa or a sa only my beretta has a decock and the 1911 i verry carefully in a safe direction hold hammer and pull trigger and lower hammer to half cock if i dont carry and if i carry the 1911 it's cocked and locked.

as for the shotgunwell theres no way to decock it other than pulling the triger but there stored sometimes for years as in the case of my grandfathers shotgun with no harm done so its a problem that dosent reily exist in my humble openion

well i hope this helps intresting post though made me do a double take and kinda think for a minet lol

Standing Wolf
January 10, 2006, 07:06 PM
would you leave a 1911 or a Colt SAA cocked all the time?

I don't own a Single Action Army, but leave my model 1911 cocked for months on end between trips to the range. Not a problem.

TexasRifleman
January 10, 2006, 07:15 PM
I don't own a Single Action Army, but leave my model 1911 cocked for months on end between trips to the range. Not a problem.


Exactly. If you want to de-cock a 1911 for some bizarre reason, you do it at the range after verifying empty chamber and no mag.

But, as Standing Wolf says, why would you want to de-cock it? You store it cocked and locked and loaded, just like you carry it unless you have been at the range, then you should have dropped the hammer on an empty chamber while pointed in a nice safe direction.

This simplicity is why I like the 1911 design.

My Sigs have a de-cocking lever so those are as simple.

And with the Glocks you wouldn't "de-cock" them since they are not "cocked" until you pull the trigger.

DirtyBrad
January 10, 2006, 07:17 PM
I leave my pistol cocked and locked all the time and my 870 is "cocked" all the time, although on an empty chamber.

If you're only dry-firing to decock, you're almost certainly safe. But since you're probably dry-firing a lot to practice ;) you might as well get some snap-caps. You can say what you like in the age-old snap-cap/dry-fire argument, but there's no drawback to having snap-caps and they only cost a couple of bucks.

I don't believe it's safe to decock on a live round under any circumstance unless you're using a decocker. My old boss was standing near me and dropped the hammer with his thumb. He put a round into the floor which ricocheted into a tool bucket nearby. Anecdotal, yes, but it does happen and I can't see any reason why you'd want a single-action pistol hammer-down on a live round.

Azrael256
January 10, 2006, 08:20 PM
Both the 1911 and the SAA can be decocked safely, loaded or unloaded, I believe that is what the "half cock" notch is for Say that in the semiauto forum and see what happens... I accidentally touched off a S-storm by asking about condition 2 carry. After some thinking about it, and testing the idea out on a snap-cap, condition 2 appears to be a really bad idea on the 1911. It MIGHT be safe to do on a pre S80 gun, but it's still asking for trouble. It's made for condition 1, so use it that way.

jlbraun
January 10, 2006, 08:21 PM
glock is a dao meanint it isnt cocked till you pull the trigger this is one of the reasons i use eather a da/sa or a sa only my beretta has a decock and the 1911 i verry carefully in a safe direction hold hammer and pull trigger and lower hammer to half cock if i dont carry and if i carry the 1911 it's cocked and locked.

as for the shotgunwell theres no way to decock it other than pulling the triger but there stored sometimes for years as in the case of my grandfathers shotgun with no harm done so its a problem that dosent reily exist in my humble openion

well i hope this helps intresting post though made me do a double take and kinda think for a minet lol

Actually, I thought that GLOCK is a SA pistol. See this (http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm):

So why aren't Glocks DA as claimed?

Any "true" double action gun will cock the hammer by squeezing the trigger, which means you don't HAVE to cock the hammer manually before the first shot as with a single action. In contrast, a Single Action gun you have to cock the hammer before you squeeze the trigger.

Glock claims to be "double action only" because :

1) You can't cock the hammer from a "hammer spur" externally, normally a sign that the gun is DAO.
2) In normal practice, pulling the trigger makes it go off, suggesting (falsely) that the trigger is cocking the hammer like a DA.
3) Trigger pull feels consistant between shots, suggesting DAO.

All three are wrong because :

1) Glock can be (and is) cocked externally for the first shot, but its done by the slide motion involved with loading the first round into the chamber rather than an overt hammer. This is true of any other semi-auto gun -- unless it really IS a DAO gun, any semi-auto can be cocked by racking the slide if you wanted).

2) The gun IS in fact cocked for the first shot before the trigger is pulled, and stays that way once cocked until fired, just like any other SINGLE ACTION. The second shot is cocked by the first, etc.

3) Just as with any other NON-DAO semi-auto, Glock counts on the process of chambering a round to cock the gun for you between shots. Since you always fire in single action mode, the trigger always feels the same.

Therefore, in practice, when you pull the trigger and it goes off, Glock wants you to think it's a DA, and not a SA which in fact is rarely loaded and still not cocked. If you were wondering why there isn't a decock lever on Glocks even though it's a wildly popular safety feature on any other good gun, it's because if you COULD decock the gun without it going off, you'd find that your gun is as good as a large paperweight at that point. You could simply bump the slide to recock the gun, but since Glock insisted it was DA, you won't know or think to do this. The bad news is, there IS a way the gun can get into that state, and it will most likely get there at the worst time possible.

How can I prove my Glock is Single Action?

There are a lot of Glock afficianodos who will SWEAR that their Glock is DA, until I have them dry fire twice in a row to similate a misfire. Remember what I said the definition of a DA gun is? DA cocks the hammer for you from the trigger, and will do so every time.

ktd
January 10, 2006, 08:22 PM
addressing various posts in this thread in no particular order.

The Radom is a single action gun with a decocker. There are other pistols that are single action with slide mounted firing pin locking safeties that allow the gun to be safely decocked, like the MAS1950.

I know people who store all their guns action open for decades and have not had problems. I know people who keep actions closed for decades and have not had problems. And I have seen people break springs on brand new guns within a box of ammo.

Firing pins do not usually protrude when guns are decocked. Mostly only certain old guns (Peacemaker and older Star autopistols) do that, and the snap cap would not hurt it to push it back a little.

The Glock is not exactly a true DAO, but even when cocked, the striker is not held back all the way so the tension is at the low end. Pulling the trigger brings the striker under full tension then releases. It is designed to be kept indefinitely in the cocked condition.

On a modern service pistol, field shotgun, military rifle, whatever, I would not worry too much about the springs, that is like worrying that the parking brake on your car is gonna fail. It might, but is such a rare occurence, you worry about it when it happens (assuming you are not a total maintenance loser).

The only time I would worry enough to bother with a snap cap is on a fine gun like a double rifle, or on a gun known to have problems, like a Luger. And even then, I would not be handling the gun on a daily basis so I would not worry then either.

KriegHund
January 10, 2006, 08:31 PM
I Did a "De-Cocking" once on a 10/22. Accidently shot the last round of a 10 round mag straight into the air...

I was young and stupid. Still am young... a little bit less stupid now.

Is That the correct term? De cocking?

Double Maduro
January 10, 2006, 08:37 PM
Azreal256,

Say that in the semiauto forum and see what happens... I accidentally touched off a S-storm by asking about condition 2 carry. After some thinking about it, and testing the idea out on a snap-cap, condition 2 appears to be a really bad idea on the 1911. It MIGHT be safe to do on a pre S80 gun, but it's still asking for trouble. It's made for condition 1, so use it that way.


Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean to carry with the hammer in the half cock position.

I meant that the half cock notch helps you to decock safely. Once the hammer starts forward, release the pressure on the trigger and the half cock notch should catch it. Then lower the hammer from there. Of course to be safe you can always place your finger under the hammer.

Now, even with a decock lever, remember the 4 rules, especially #2.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

DM

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