New Atlanta Georgia Aquarium - NO legal CCW


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Rob62
January 11, 2006, 01:36 PM
Just thought Id share with you something that has been brought to my attention. The new aquarium, billed as the worlds largest, in Atlanta Georgia, does not allow lawful CCW, even for full time sworn LEOs.

For those that might not know it. Georgia has very liberal CCW permits. They are easy to obtain and there is also reciprocity with several other states.

Here is a direct quote from their web site (http://www.georgiaaquarium.org)

Is there a security check before you get into the aquarium?
Yes. There are no guns, knives, matches, lighters or fishing poles allowed inside the Aquarium.

Contact information for the aquarium is:

Georgia Aquarium
225 Baker Street
Atlanta, GA 30313
404-581-4000
visitorservices@georgiaaquarium.org.

I am making no statements about them not allowing CCWs inside their private establishment, except to say that it is their right. I dont to agree with it or spend my $$ going there though. I just thought Id post the info here for anyone that might be planning on taking their family to see the pretty fish. From what I have read, and people I have talked to about the displays all say it is incredible experience.

I am going to cross post this on a few sites in order to let the maximum number of people know. The aquarium does NOT have lock boxes to put CCWs into, even for LEOs.

So if you plan on going and taking your gun be prepared to leave it in some place safe, other than on your hip :p

Regards,
Rob

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gonzo_beyondo
January 11, 2006, 02:15 PM
If I can't take my Zippo and pocket knife, which are tools I don't leave home without, then they can keep their fish. This to me, is a bigger issue than the CCW. Lately there has been a rash of drive-by Zippoings, think of the children!

As for CCW, firearms are restricted many places, including workplaces, which seems to be where people are most inclined to go postal. I don't believe it makes sense to carry to and from someplace... yet, you are expected to then leave your firearm... in an unattended car (already a target) for 8hrs while you're at work.

My point being, legally owned firearms are'nt the ones to worry about... it's the ones stolen outta cars, both civillian and police, which fall into the (obviously) wrong hands. Its harder to steal a legally obtained firearm when it's on a person.

Locked up in your safe, or on your person. Anything else seems pretty unresponsible to me.

torpid
January 11, 2006, 02:33 PM
Is there a security check before you get into the aquarium?
Yes. There are no guns, knives, matches, lighters or fishing poles allowed inside the Aquarium.

:D

AirForceShooter
January 11, 2006, 02:36 PM
no fishing poles???
why are the fish there then?
just to look at?
that's stupid.

AFS

jpthegeek
January 11, 2006, 02:41 PM
I got a yearly pass as a gift the other day and will be going on Saturday the 14th. I had not planned to carry my sidearm in the aquarium (and still don't) but I wonder if they will get angry over my trusty Spyderco and Swiss Army knife?!?

They have a coat check, so if the security stops me about the pocket knives, I will bag them and check them with that.

Will post another reply when I get home and let you guys know.

Rezin
January 11, 2006, 02:45 PM
Normally I'd be opposed to this, but I do understand it. Can you imagine an AD/ND that shatters a BIG tank?

That said, knives and zippos rules are stupid as hell. Why/how can they restrict that?

outofbattery
January 11, 2006, 03:26 PM
I understand the lighters:I worked at an aquarium in FL and a couple of scumbag kids used their lighters to melt their initials into the polycarbonate the tanks were made of.Knives can be used to do the same and it's not an easy fix.

countertop
January 11, 2006, 03:51 PM
Why/how can they restrict that?


Its their private property - paid for entirely out of their private money. They can do whatever they want there.

As for the ability to actually restrict these items, I doubt it.

Oleg Volk
January 11, 2006, 03:58 PM
Email sent:
I come to Atlanta regularly on business and intended to see the Aquarium on my next trip. Unfortunately, I just discovered a problem with that plan.
http://www.georgiaaquarium.org/visitUs/faqs.aspx#GeneralInfo lists the following:

> Is there a security check before you get into the aquarium?
> Yes. There are no guns, knives, matches, lighters or fishing poles allowed inside the Aquarium.

That poses an insurmountable problem for your visitors like me. Anyone legally wearing a sidearm would have to choose between traveling unarmed (not acceptable) and leaving the sidearm(s) in the car (not secure, dangerous due to extra handling in a confined space). That means I would not be coming to your acquarium, nor would others like me (they may or may not take the time to write to you).

>
> Price *with tax
> Adult $21.06 $22.75
> Child (age 3-12) $15.74 $17.00
> Senior (age 55+) $18.06 $19.50

We don't get to see the fish. You don't get $73 for a family of four. Seems like a bad deal for both sides. What do you think?

Sincerely,

Oleg Volk

V4Vendetta
January 11, 2006, 04:03 PM
Here's my .02 . You have a tank filled with live sharks. Then some dummy accidently lets off a round & shatters the glass.:what: You see "Jaws"? As for the no lighters & knives, I don't see the reason. I know I won't be going there. You want a good aquarium, go to Ripley's Aquarium at Myrtle Beach, SC.

VirgilCaine
January 11, 2006, 04:09 PM
Here's my .02 . You have a tank filled with live sharks. Then some dummy accidently lets off a round & shatters the glass.:what: You see "Jaws"? As for the no lighters & knives, I don't see the reason. I know I won't be going there. You want a good aquarium, go to Ripley's Aquarium at Myrtle Beach, SC.

I wouldn't think a handgun could shatter the several inch think glass. Damage it very expensively, yeah...but they'll probably be making the tanks with transparent aluminum soon...

Oleg Volk
January 11, 2006, 04:16 PM
How can even a dummy fire a holstered gun? Brandishing is already illegal. I thinkt hey are trying to calm the shoople who, without this note, would have never even thought of guns carried around them.

NineseveN
January 11, 2006, 04:19 PM
Here's my .02 . You have a tank filled with live sharks. Then some dummy accidently lets off a round & shatters the glass.:what: You see "Jaws"? As for the no lighters & knives, I don't see the reason. I know I won't be going there. You want a good aquarium, go to Ripley's Aquarium at Myrtle Beach, SC.

Well then, what about some dummy letting an ND fly in rush hour? Could hit a fuel tanker, or an infnant, or a baby seal! Yup, better restrict CCW on public tarnsportation.

What about the supermarket? Some dummy could have an ND and hit the Pepsi Display, causing slippery pepsi goo to wash the floor and maybe someone will slip! It's not easy to clean up gallons of Pepsi hiding under store shelving units! No CCW in supermarkets either.

...all just as ridiculous. I agree that the establishment has the right to invoke their own rules for the sue of their property, but agreeing with it, as a gun owner, is just silly to me. Not directed at the OP or anyoe else in particular, just my general thoughts.

STiTkacik
January 11, 2006, 04:23 PM
Interesting. Not that I would have planned on carrying while in the aquarium, but I wonder why the rules are so tight here.

Rob62
January 11, 2006, 05:05 PM
This post was deleted after I thought about it.


Rob

Standing Wolf
January 11, 2006, 05:08 PM
I don't ever do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.

bogie
January 11, 2006, 07:15 PM
Drop a note to Home Depot, and ask 'em if they know what their money is paying for... After all, they're major donors...

Don't boycott HD - they're on our side...

Norm357
January 11, 2006, 08:28 PM
Drop a note to Home Depot, and ask 'em if they know what their money is paying for... After all, they're major donors...

Don't boycott HD - they're on our side...

Home Depot has nothing to do with the Georgia Aquarium. Aurther Blanks built it with money out of his own pockets. No money came from outside doners.

Those stupid no guns signs carry no legal weight in GA. I think I might carry their anyways just to see what happens.:D

sabre452
January 11, 2006, 09:57 PM
I went the day after Christmas and chose to ignore the posted signs. It was a long, cold walk back to the car when I discovered that the security station was doing a wand check and pat down. The place was extremely crowded which made viewing difficult. I highly recommend waiting until the new wears off if possible if you don't enjoy crowds or being constantly jostled and harried.

Inline_6
January 11, 2006, 10:11 PM
Wow! I wouldn't think they couuld stop an LEO or federal agent from carrying a weapon... glass walls and sharks or not, I think the policy is retarded.

Slinger
January 11, 2006, 10:19 PM
No guns, no knives, no lighters, no fishing poles.

Nobody mentioned SPEARGUNS! Look out sharks! :)

LiquidTension
January 11, 2006, 10:46 PM
I doubt this aquarium would be too impressive after going through the one on Okinawa. That one didn't have any "no guns" signs due to the lack of guns in Japan, but it didn't have any silly security checkpoints either. My blade and lighter were not a threat there, and they wouldn't be in Atlanta either.

Of course, the culture is quite a bit different over there as well. People here go to see the pretty fish and scary sharks because they are different and neat. People in Okinawa walk through and say, "wow, that one looks tasty." Seriously.

As for etching stuff into the plexiglass, there's an easy fix for that - put ropes up to keep people at arm's length from it and have employees keep an eye on things.

GoBrush
January 11, 2006, 11:13 PM
Yippie another CRIMINAL EMPOWERMENT ZONE oh goodie do they have become a victim here sign up forms? When will people learn the difference between a 2nd ammendment activist and a anti is one mugging. I have been waiting to see one of these places face a civil law suit because an otherwise CCW carrier gets killed and because they disarmed him are liable for his death.

pyrguy
January 11, 2006, 11:19 PM
Just an observation of a friend that went to the aquarium.

He said that there is a secure storage area for knives, lighters, etc..

Its a large trash can behind the guards table at the entrance.
:what: :what: :neener:

Firethorn
January 11, 2006, 11:22 PM
My thoughts:

It's their right to put the rules they want on their property. At least they have security actually checking there. In 99% of the areas, they don't have even that.

grimjaw
January 12, 2006, 12:05 AM
I discovered that the security station was doing a wand check and pat down.

Let me get this straight, to get into a privately funded aquarium? What kind of neighborhood is this in and what kind of people do they expect inside if they're that worried about disarming people?

The last major event I attended was a concert at the House of Blues in Cleveland, OH. They also wanded you and probably a pat down if something tripped the wand. The night I was there was the same night that "DimeBag" Darrel was shot in Columbus, OH (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/12/09/nightclub.shooting/) at a concert. That place didn't have the same checks. I can remember thinking that if somebody brought a gun into the HOB under the nose of security and used it (oh, that could never happen :rolleyes: ), it'd be a madhouse. I don't even like going into places like that anymore without being close to the exit.

Ye gods, a security detail at an aquarium. Why would I want to spend time at a place like that, pay money for the privilege of being rendered helpless? No thanks. But a sucker is born every minute, as they say. I'm sure the place will stay open.

jmm

Lupinus
January 12, 2006, 12:39 AM
fishing poles allowed inside the Aquarium.
Well damn that jsut takes all the gun out of it lol. Ever been to an aquarium that served fish? WTH kind of messed up stuff is that? The acts that wouldn't jump through the hoopgood enough?

Optical Serenity
January 12, 2006, 12:46 AM
There are many who are not going to it, myself included. I will gladly drive to the Chattanoogy Aquarium to avoid this insanity. Being a Georgia State Police officer, I find it absurd to now allow firearms there. Secondly, if you are going to not allow firearms, I do not believe its smart to not allow firearms on LEOs.

Why? Well, you have created the perfect environment for a criminal.

To hell with them.

Norm357
January 12, 2006, 12:53 AM
There are many who are not going to it, myself included. I will gladly drive to the Chattanoogy Aquarium to avoid this insanity. Being a Georgia State Police officer, I find it absurd to now allow firearms there. Secondly, if you are going to not allow firearms, I do not believe its smart to not allow firearms on LEOs.

Why? Well, you have created the perfect environment for a criminal.

To hell with them.

Never mind, PM sent.

Norm357
January 12, 2006, 12:53 AM
Egads! Double tap.

Devonai
January 12, 2006, 03:00 AM
I am making no statements about them not allowing CCWs inside their private establishment, except to say that it is their right.

I don't buy this argument. If you operate a business that is open to the general public, no invitation required, you must allow access to any person who is in compliance with the law. Self-defense is a civil right, and a publicly-accessible business has no right to restrict it any less than they can post a sign that reads "whites only."

If the establishment accepts guests by invitiation only, i.e. a members-only club, then that business can restrict whomever they wish for whatever reason they wish. While I don't necessarily agree with a club that would restrict a certain race or gender from membership, it is their right as a private club and the government should butt out.

If you're going to allow anybody in off the street with enough money to buy your services or products, however, then just because it's private property doesn't mean civil rights go out the window.

Optical Serenity
January 12, 2006, 03:16 AM
If you're going to allow anybody in off the street with enough money to buy your services or products, however, then just because it's private property doesn't mean civil rights go out the window.

While I understand you're sentiments, they simply are not right.

A private establishment has the right (and should) to allow and not allow certain people into their business. If the aquarium does not want to allow some people, the only thing you can do is protest it, or leave. There is no law (nor should there be) forcing a business to sell to you. Here in GA businesses have the right to refuse a sale. Its fine with me, I simply will go elsewhere. Its called capitalism :)

While in Georgia businesses do not have any legal grounds to say you cannot carry into the business (for those with a Georgia Firearms Permit), they do have the right to ask you to leave, and if you do not, its criminal trespass.

only1asterisk
January 12, 2006, 03:29 AM
Another way to reach the them may be through their major sponsors like Home Depot and Georgia Pacific.

David

Devonai
January 12, 2006, 04:02 AM
So if I don't like <insert minority group here> coming into my store, I can ask them to leave?

Sorry, but a civil right is a civil right, and I think you missed my point about the difference between publicly-accessible private property and invitation-only private property.

Optical Serenity
January 12, 2006, 04:12 AM
Correct, in this state, there is no specific requirement that you allow people into your private business. I can actually think of a few businesses who do not allow certain people into their store.

All you can do is not give them your business, or in the case of a sponsored store, yes, you can go to the sponsors.

only1asterisk
January 12, 2006, 04:12 AM
So if I don't like <insert minority group here> coming into my store, I can ask them to leave?

Absolutely. Store, restaurant, apartment complex, shooting range or other business. Doing so may make you a jerk, but most people here would agree that you are completely within your rights.

David

SnakeEater
January 12, 2006, 04:13 AM
If they allowed LEO's to carry and not anyone else that would really get my blood boiling. At least everyone is being treated equally. I don't agree with the policy but it is their right.

Optical Serenity
January 12, 2006, 04:15 AM
There is actually one place in particular that sells signs such as "_____ folks not allowed."

Now, I'm of persian origin, and there is nothing more humorous than seeing the proprietor's face when i walk in wearing the uniform. :)

He's actually a nice guy, just kinda confused i'd say, but it is within his rights...

Lone_Gunman
January 12, 2006, 04:49 AM
Would the Georgia Aquarium be a public gathering?

If so, then your Georgia Firearms License is no good there anyway.

Georgia forbids CCW even with a permit at a public gathering.

So before you get all upset about the Aquariums prohibition of firearms, you need to realize it may be illegal to carry there under Georgia law. There really is no clear definition in GA law of what a public gathering is, and it appears to be determined by the whim of the Attorney General.

countertop
January 12, 2006, 05:02 AM
+1 on the brilliant Chattanooga Aquarium instead. Plus, Chattanooga is in a much much prettier part the south with those giant mountains and slowly flowing river. And, after your done at the Aquarium (both the freshwater one and the new saltwater one) you can head over to Chickamauga Battlefield and see one of the more impressive firearms collections around.

Optical Serenity
January 12, 2006, 05:12 AM
I'm not sure if the GA Aquarium is owned by a private company or a public agency. If its a govt owned building, then of course, you cannot carry there. But regardless, certainly LEO's should carry there. This not only applies to GA LEO's but also any LEO that is covered under HR218.

shooting time
January 12, 2006, 07:51 AM
My daughter went there she had to go to her truck and store her firearm and she said she will never go there again the neighborhood is not good and as soon as the local criminals find out that people are having to leave their guns in their cars they will start breaking in them for them.When in atlanta you have to carry because most of the areas are bad anyway.The city cops don't do anything about it eiither.

Devonai
January 12, 2006, 07:55 AM
Please distinguish between what you think you should be able to do and what you can do in reality. It is against the law to bar people from entering a publicly-accessible place of business based on race, gender, religion or creed.

For the last time, I'm not talking about private clubs or residences. In those cases we're in complete agreement.

Civil rights extend to firearms ownership, therefore it should be against the law to discriminate based on whether or not a person is legally armed. But now I'm the one daydreaming.

only1asterisk
January 12, 2006, 08:38 AM
It is against the law to bar people from entering a publicly-accessible place of business based on race, gender, religion or creed.

We're talking right and wrong, not "the law". In this case, the law would be wrong. It is wrong to prevent people from being armed in public, but on private property the owner has every right to regulate your activities or presence.

Who says I don't ask people to leave my place of business "in reality" whenever I like?

David

Norm357
January 12, 2006, 04:21 PM
There is some misinformation here:

Another way to reach the them may be through their major sponsors like Home Depot and Georgia Pacific.

David

Aurthor Blanks footed the bill out of his own pocket. Home Depot had nothing to do with the place.

I don't buy this argument. If you operate a business that is open to the general public, no invitation required, you must allow access to any person who is in compliance with the law. Self-defense is a civil right, and a publicly-accessible business has no right to restrict it any less than they can post a sign that reads "whites only."


So you dont believe in property rights?

I'm not sure if the GA Aquarium is owned by a private company or a public agency. If its a govt owned building, then of course, you cannot carry there.

It is private property with the proceeds after upkeep and salaries donated to the City of Atlanta.

grimlock
January 12, 2006, 04:48 PM
Would the Georgia Aquarium be a public gathering?

If so, then your Georgia Firearms License is no good there anyway.

Georgia forbids CCW even with a permit at a public gathering.

So before you get all upset about the Aquariums prohibition of firearms, you need to realize it may be illegal to carry there under Georgia law. There really is no clear definition in GA law of what a public gathering is, and it appears to be determined by the whim of the Attorney General.

A place cannot be a public gathering. The AG has stated that a public gathering must be an event, and places where the public gathers (like malls) are not prohibited.

So you wouldn't be violating that portion of the law. The private property thing, however, is different.

V4Vendetta
January 12, 2006, 04:52 PM
"How can even a dummy fire a holstered gun?"

That's why they are dummy's.:D

Phaetos
January 12, 2006, 06:42 PM
No guns, no knives, no lighters, no fishing poles.

Nobody mentioned SPEARGUNS! Look out sharks! :)

Nope not allowed, it has GUN in the name. Re-name it a spear-launcher and you should be good to go. They also didn't mention crossbows.

mole
January 12, 2006, 09:54 PM
Next it'll be oxygen tanks and wheelchairs. "I'm sorry sir, but you'll have to dispose of your oxygen tank. It is considered a fire hazzard and possible bludgeon." or "Mam, you'll have to leave your wheelchair outside. The danger of running over someone's toes is too great to be allowed,but our gentle sloping ramps mean you'll be able to drag yourself just fine."

That's just wrong.

(of course I'm not serious.)

Manedwolf
January 13, 2006, 02:36 AM
Just thought I’d share with you something that has been brought to my attention. The new aquarium, billed as the worlds largest, in Atlanta Georgia, does not allow lawful CCW, even for full time sworn LEO’s.

For those that might not know it. Georgia has very liberal CCW permits. They are easy to obtain and there is also reciprocity with several other states.

Here is a direct quote from their web site (http://www.georgiaaquarium.org)

“Is there a security check before you get into the aquarium?
Yes. There are no guns, knives, matches, lighters or fishing poles allowed inside the Aquarium.”

Contact information for the aquarium is:

Georgia Aquarium
225 Baker Street
Atlanta, GA 30313
404-581-4000
visitorservices@georgiaaquarium.org.

I am making no statements about them not allowing CCW’s inside their private establishment, except to say that it is their right. I don’t to agree with it or spend my $$ going there though. I just thought I’d post the info here for anyone that might be planning on taking their family to see the pretty fish. From what I have read, and people I have talked to about the displays – all say it is incredible experience.

I am going to cross post this on a few sites in order to let the maximum number of people know. The aquarium does NOT have lock boxes to put CCW’s into, even for LEO’s.

So if you plan on going and taking your gun be prepared to leave it in some place safe, other than on your hip :p

Regards,
Rob

That might actually make sense for one simple reason. Aquarium. Lots of really, really big windows holding back millions and millions of gallons of water. Yes, they're thick Lexan or some other sort of clear, durable polymer, but I doubt they were tested for the stress of bullet impacts. A window wouldn't shatter movie-style, they're usually up to 3 inches thick or more, but one could perhaps start to fail under stress after impacts, I don't know. You'd have to talk to the engineers to find out. I do know that a window failure on a big tank like that would kill people, though, water has a hell of a lot of mass and turns you into a helpless toy when in sufficient quantities.

But...fishing poles? :scrutiny:

geekWithA.45
January 13, 2006, 03:03 AM
Umm....you guys are worried about the accidental discharge of HANDGUNS, of the type normally carried concealed for defensive purposes, ranging roughly from .22lr to 10mm, penetrating 6-12 inches of polycarb?

Nope.

Not gonna happen.

Those big tank windows are THICK and TOUGH.

Gun bigots might call them pocket artillery, but we oughta know better.

----------------------

Now, as to the question of privately owned places of public accommodation.

A private place opened to the public does NOT have the full protections of private property, such as a private club, or one's lands or dwelling.

That's a grey, sticky area, especially when it comes with RKBA restrictions.

It is widely accepted, by the public, and by law, that such places of public accommodation may NOT discriminate for certain criteria.

It is also accepted that they may enforce certain behavioral codes, as a condition of admittance, such as dress codes.

It is also accepted that they may enforce additional behavioral codes of conduct, such as are consistent and fairly applied to all.

_HOWEVER_, the right of peaceable armament is a FUNDAMENTAL right.

Isn't that one of our central assertions here?

Isn't it also one of our central assertions that being responsibly, peacably armed is inherently HARMLESS?

I suggest that we here too readily accept the libertarian dogma of private determination of the use of private property, misapplying it to the issue of property open to the public. When a property owner opens his property to the public, he gives up some of his rights and interest in what happens on that property, at least partly in exchange for the advantage he seeks to gain in so doing.

I believe that we should adopt an axiom that "what is lawful on the street ought to be lawful in the private place of public accommodation." If we do want to leave some wiggle room for the property owner, I suggest that at the very least, put the onus on the property owner to show the legitimate necessity for such a restriction, (ie, gunfire likely to cause reactor coolant leaks, leading to meltdown) and require him to provide us with secure storage lockers at the door.

This would certainly keep gratuitious and ideologically driven restrictions to a minimum.

I'm not saying this is what IS, I'm merely trying to arrive at a workable model of how it ought to be, to guide further refinements of social acceptance and law in this area.

solareclipse
January 13, 2006, 05:33 AM
They have systematically been curbing gun powers in GA over the last few years. I am not surprised.

Much the same way they are now making us prepay for gas at all inner city stations.

Evolution at it's best :rolleyes:

only1asterisk
January 13, 2006, 09:19 AM
When a property owner opens his property to the public, he gives up some of his rights and interest in what happens on that property, at least partly in exchange for the advantage he seeks to gain in so doing.


I don't disagree, but I think concessions that need to be made by the owner are minor (you cant shoot someone for coming through a door with an OPEN sign on it).

David

jpthegeek
January 19, 2006, 03:11 PM
Ok, here's my reply to the visit. It's been a rough week, so sorry for the delay.

I didn't plan on carrying in the aquarium. I did however plan on carry my two usual pocket knives: A Spyderco Endura and a run of the mill Swiss Army Knife.

Since it was my wife's birthday and I didn't want any trouble whatsoever, I ended up leaving the Spyderco in my truck but left the Swiss Army in my pocket.

When I got down the street to the entrance and saw the GIANT SIGNS proclaiming unarmed victims should pass through here, I thought twice about my choice to keep said Swiss Army knife. As we made our way through the maze of switchbacks, I started to get a bit nervous.

The 'security' guy wanded me and to my utter disbelief the Swiss Army didn't set it off. The sensitivity of those things must be adjustable.

So, the verdict? Despite what the City of Atlanta (where every day is now a $2 million opening day) says, that part of town is not that nice to be in. It is experiencing a redevelopment due to traffic and low interest rates, but it is still not really a place to be walking alone and as unarmed as the Aquarium wants you to be.

It's very nice as aquariums go, but it was so crowded we didn't get to see very much. At this point, I would rather drive to Chattanooga. Perhaps I should go back on a Tuesday morning when the weather is horrible. Maybe then I would be able to wander through at my leisure.

Bottom line: Unless you carrying the *mythical* GLOCK 7, you will not be able to carry in this establishment despite what the Ga code states.

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