buying weapons with credit cards


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carlrodd
January 11, 2006, 03:32 PM
you'll have to excuse my ignorance in this matter. i went to the shop the other day and saw some guy...very young...prob just 21. he was buying an expensive sig. i gathered from the conversation he was having with the salesman that he was in very frequently and prob made many purchases....they were actually treating him well. he paid with a credit/debit card. i understand that you have to fill out paperwork when you purchase firearms from a dealer anyway, but it seems stupid to use something that is just another means of tracking what you have. is this a common consensus among gun owners? i have only purchased two firearms in my life, and it would never occur to me to use anything but cash to pay for firearms, ammo, anything having to do with weapons. is it a correct assumption that you make it far easier for the powers that be to know what you have if you use credit for your purchases?

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Car Knocker
January 11, 2006, 03:43 PM
Well, buying with a credit card isn't any worse than posting what weapons we have on an Internet forum for the entire world to read.

carlrodd
January 11, 2006, 03:45 PM
Well, buying with a credit card isn't any worse than posting what weapons we have on an Internet forum for the entire world to read.

true, but if someone actually wanted to have physical proof of what you have, wouldn't credit transactions make it that much easier?

slopemeno
January 11, 2006, 03:47 PM
What did you buy? $400 worth of clothers from a place called "Joe Blows outdoors"? I think that piece of yellow paper you just filled out, along with the instant record check is, uh, plenty.

countertop
January 11, 2006, 03:49 PM
Of course, they don't ever know if you sold it later though, do they?

entropy
January 11, 2006, 03:52 PM
I pay for my tinfoil with cash, just in case....:uhoh:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/hidebehindcouch.gif



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/t_early_germanic_picklhaube_tubi_hubi_helmet_.jpg

:p

ccw007
January 11, 2006, 03:56 PM
I use my Visa check card for about 95% of my purchases, because if I have cash in my pocket I will spend it where with needing to run the card it takes more effort for me since I need to log the transaction. I have missed a few deals like this, but looking back not thing I really needed. It comes strait out of my checking account. It also helps track my spending.
As I get older I wished I would not have used credit to buy things I could not afford to pay for strait out, gun included. I was once that 21 year old kid. Now I if I cannot pay cash I do not buy it. I will used a credit card from time to time still, but only if I can pay that purchase off within 30 days.
I do not worry about tracking because if fill you out paperwork they will use that most likely to track your purchase.

Standing Wolf
January 11, 2006, 04:03 PM
...it seems stupid to use something that is just another means of tracking what you have.

I've never seen a firearm's serial number on a credit card receipt.

Atticus
January 11, 2006, 04:05 PM
Remaining anonymous is pretty much impossible unless you're buying used guns from individuals and paying cash. If I'm buying a new and expensive gun, I'm going to send in my warranty card as well. I suspect that many dealers might even place your records in a "special" file if you're known to always pay cash. First and foremost, dealers want to stay on the good side of "them".

VinnyT
January 11, 2006, 04:30 PM
I've never seen a firearm's serial number on a credit card receipt.
One store that I buy from has the serial #'s on the receipt. The reason is for my records in case it was stolen, I would have concrete evidence to show the LEO. They also have a 60 warranty whether the firearm is used or new. They use that receipt to confirm ownership. I kind of like that number being on there myself.

Bruce333
January 11, 2006, 04:45 PM
Of course, they don't ever know if you sold it later though, do they?or lost it when your fishing boat sank...

CAS700850
January 11, 2006, 04:47 PM
I simply don't care anymore what some government employee in some deep dark basement of some big concrete building knows about me anymore. So what? Are they gonna suspend the 4th amendment and search door to door for every guyn in the country? Are they only going to search the homes of those who are known to own guns? Sorry, but I have much more pressing issues to worry about than whether using a credit card to purchase my Sig 239 put my name on some list.

fletcher
January 11, 2006, 04:52 PM
The two handguns that I purchased at the store/show were both done with a credit card. That's primarily because I don't like carrying cash.

sturmruger
January 11, 2006, 05:06 PM
I think you are being a little on the paranoid side. To buy a gun at a dealer you have to give them a lot of private information. Paying with cash seems like a waste of time to me. I like to use my credit card for as much as possible. My wife and I get a crap load of miles when we use are cards.

hso
January 11, 2006, 05:18 PM
Done it before and wouldn't mind doing it again. Just because i buy something at a gun shop doesn't mean that there are any specifics about what I bought. It certainly is reasonable to assume that a multihundred dollar item is a firearm, but which firearm? Rifle? Shotgun? Handgun? or even a safe perhaps?

If you're worried about any record then purchase FTF in cash.

Shipwreck
January 11, 2006, 05:23 PM
I use my card to get the "points" so I can add to my monthly totals - every 2 months, I get enough points to get a $50 gift card from numerous places - I pay off the card EVERY month in full, so I pay not interest.

Besides... Shhh, don't tell anyone, but the dollar bills have little carbon fibers in them that can be tracked by the satellites in the sky.... :uhoh: :uhoh:

phoglund
January 11, 2006, 06:34 PM
Debit cards are my preferred payment method. I don't worry about what might be tracked that way. And bru333, how did you know my fishin' boat sank with several of my store purchased guns??? Huh?? ;)

Moonclip
January 11, 2006, 06:47 PM
I know a gunstore that does not take credit cards and frowns on checks. Most people do not walk around with $500-1000 in their pockets though I generally try to as you never no what will come up like at a yard sale a friend missed many years ago a Thompson semi auto for like $400 with goodies.

Bruce333
January 11, 2006, 06:53 PM
Debit cards are my preferred payment method. I don't worry about what might be tracked that way. And bru333, how did you know my fishin' boat sank with several of my store purchased guns??? Huh?? ;)You weren't wearing your tin foil hat were you?:uhoh:



There is enough paperwork that goes along with buying a gun at a retail store that I'm not too concerned about adding the purchase to my bank records from using my debit card.

R.W.Dale
January 11, 2006, 07:04 PM
I would have thought that with the holidays being over and all of the leftovers gone. that tinfoil supplies would be back up tohttp://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/tinfoil_hat.gif "normal" by now.

Ala Dan
January 11, 2006, 07:16 PM
by Standing Wolf

"I've never seen a firearm's serial number on a credit card receipt".

+1 for the Wolfman, as I haven't either~!:D

MechAg94
January 11, 2006, 07:37 PM
I try to pay cash for personal finance reasons only. If THEY know what I have, they know. I am not going to go out of my way to post my inventory on this site, but I have mentioned quite a few of them.

Another cost to consider: Many credit card companies have a very short grace period on new purchases. You may be paying interest even if you pay it off every month.

losangeles
January 11, 2006, 07:53 PM
I use my Amex card like I do with any other purchase of like price.

There's already enough data regarding the transaction so that if the feds wanted to keep track of my new acquisitions, a credit card transaction trail isn't going to make a difference. And if they know, so what? I'm not doing anything illegal nor do I plan to.

MachIVshooter
January 11, 2006, 10:26 PM
i understand that you have to fill out paperwork when you purchase firearms from a dealer anyway, but it seems stupid to use something that is just another means of tracking what you have. is this a common consensus among gun owners? i have only purchased two firearms in my life, and it would never occur to me to use anything but cash to pay for firearms, ammo, anything having to do with weapons. is it a correct assumption that you make it far easier for the powers that be to know what you have if you use credit for your purchases?

As has been said, the credit card reciept does not distinguish between firearms or other items found in the business place. They aren't going to say "he spent $647 at Joe's sporting goods. Had to be a gun". Hell, I've dropped as little as $60 on a gun and as much as $2,200 on other, non-gun items at the gunstore at one time.

I'd not worry about them being able to track weapons; they have umpteen ways of doing so without financial evidence anyway. I'm quite sure that all of us who've ever filled out a 4473 has a little red mark in the FBI's database. Best way to stay off the radar is to not do anything that throws a flag (like buying 20 firearms and 10,000 rounds at once).

But besides all that, there are simply so many firearms in circulation (most not "registered, some don't even have serial #'s), that there would be no way to effectively confiscate them. Estimates on legal guns in the U.S. range from 175 million to 300 million. I'm betting the number is actually even higher, and you can add another 30 or 50 million illegal guns to that list.
Many of the legal ones have been handed down or privately transferred so many times that the paper trail went up in smoke long ago. And once a firearm is in circulation, it tends to stay there. I would bet an absolutely miniscule percentage are actually confiscated and destroyed.

As spectacularly ignorant as our politicians are, there is no way that any of them could actually think that going door to door for confiscation could work.

Does uncle sam know I own guns? No doubt. Do they know how many? not likely. Will they ever get a single one of them from me? No way.

fiveoboy01
January 11, 2006, 10:40 PM
I'd assume that other than the amount, the CC company has no idea WHAT you bought, only WHERE you bought it from.

Besides, the 4473 has all your info on it anyways.

Snagglepuss
January 11, 2006, 11:39 PM
Nice hat Entropy, do you sell those. I might be interested.:D

PvtPyle
January 12, 2006, 12:24 AM
All the prefectly good answers given here aside, I gotta ask... Are you for real? This really worries you? I really can't understand what makes a person worry about this stuff.

And further, if you are that worried about it, I can't understand what makes people post about it on the internet. It's not like you live in the middle of a town of 5 people and are usingf a portable sat link to get on the net. Why not ask a person in your area that is a RKI and not expose yourself to the monitoring of the net?

Here is one word that should keep you awake at night if you are worried about the government tracking your personal habits.

Carnivor

carlrodd
January 12, 2006, 12:38 AM
All the prefectly good answers given here aside, I gotta ask... Are you for real? This really worries you? I really can't understand what makes a person worry about this stuff.

And further, if you are that worried about it, I can't understand what makes people post about it on the internet. It's not like you live in the middle of a town of 5 people and are usingf a portable sat link to get on the net. Why not ask a person in your area that is a RKI and not expose yourself to the monitoring of the net?

Here is one word that should keep you awake at night if you are worried about the government tracking your personal habits.

Carnivor

i believe all i said was that it seemed like a bad idea to me and i wanted to hear some opinions.....in other words if i knew much about the issue i wouldn't have asked. as far as why people worry about 'this stuff'....ask yourself why you are apparently paranoid about people "monitoring" the net.

PvtPyle
January 12, 2006, 01:18 AM
I am not paranoid about them monitoring the net. I KNOW they monitor it, and they have no problems bringing what you type online to bear against you when they think they have leverage to do so. Been there, done that, as many members here can attest to. I went thru quite the nut-roll with Army CID, the ATF, and the NSA for comments I made online that violated NO laws, encouraged no illegal acts or acts of violence of any kind, or revealed any sensitive information or national security information.

I was deemed a dangerous person in the state of Utah and investigated very heavily prior to the Olympics here because of political comments I made on line and in emails, including text messages on my cell phone. They had print outs of them in my "interviews".

And yet a few short years later they give me a security clearance and license me to be a manufacturer of machineguns and NFA firearms. Was I cleared or is it more rope to hang myself.......?

Anyway, I don't worry about them monitoring the net, I know they do it and don't really care. So I wouldn't call it paranoid, just cynical.

hotpig
January 12, 2006, 01:47 AM
Besides... Shhh, don't tell anyone, but the dollar bills have little carbon fibers in them that can be tracked by the satellites in the sky.... :uhoh: :uhoh:


DUHH, you were not supposed to tell the sheeple

KC&97TA
January 12, 2006, 10:48 AM
I simply don't care anymore what some government employee in some deep dark basement of some big concrete building knows about me anymore. So what? Are they gonna suspend the 4th amendment and search door to door for every guyn in the country? Are they only going to search the homes of those who are known to own guns? Sorry, but I have much more pressing issues to worry about than whether using a credit card to purchase my Sig 239 put my name on some list.

I think if they really watched the credit card purchases I'd have been taken into custody by the 'california commys' after returning to CA, when I bought 2 stripped AR-15 lowers in MO... I'm not worried about it, bought all my guns and gun parts either by credit or check card, put my name on a list too.

Paid my 'CA Dangerous Weapons Permit' by check, address is on the permit, they'd still know I have 2 AR-15's in thier commy state if I had paid by money order :neener:

thorazine
January 12, 2006, 02:03 PM
I always use my rewards credit card. Gun purchases alone has earned me three free round trip tickets over the past two and a half years.

losangeles
January 12, 2006, 02:50 PM
I KNOW they monitor it, and they have no problems bringing what you type online to bear against you when they think they have leverage to do so. Been there, done that, as many members here can attest to. I went thru quite the nut-roll with Army CID, the ATF, and the NSA for comments I made online that violated NO laws, encouraged no illegal acts or acts of violence of any kind, or revealed any sensitive information or national security information.

I was deemed a dangerous person in the state of Utah and investigated very heavily prior to the Olympics here because of political comments I made on line and in emails, including text messages on my cell phone. They had print outs of them in my "interviews".

And yet a few short years later they give me a security clearance and license me to be a manufacturer of machineguns and NFA firearms. Was I cleared or is it more rope to hang myself.......?

Anyway, I don't worry about them monitoring the net, I know they do it and don't really care. So I wouldn't call it paranoid, just cynical.

Wow, holy smokes!

I believe it. As an Internet techie myself, I know it's easy to do online surveillance on people. Heck, commercial interests (and hackers) do it regularly with spyware, which sits on the computer of over 75% of us. I'm just not knowledgeable of authorities doing it officially, but it's certainly easy to implement.

My personal feeling is, I don't care. I've got nothing to hide. But I try to sweep off these things where I can, because #1 - I don't like the degradation on my systems from these things, and #2 - there's a chance someone doing this could be an identity theft criminal, and I sure don't want anybody to be charging on my credit card.

progunner1957
January 12, 2006, 03:00 PM
I simply don't care anymore what some government employee in some deep dark basement of some big concrete building knows about me anymore. So what? Are they gonna suspend the 4th amendment and search door to door for every guyn in the country? Are they only going to search the homes of those who are known to own guns?
+1.

If "They" ever try do so, it is time to fight the second American Revolution. The first American Revolution was fought over gun confiscation that the Brits attempted to carry out. It is fitting that if there is to be another revolution, it would be over the same thing.

If it's time to bury tem, it's time to dig them up and use them.

bigmtnman
January 12, 2006, 03:31 PM
I don't buy until I have the funds to pay, but I will use a Visa platinum card for any major purchase due to the fact that it extends any manufacturers warranty by one year. Pay the bill when it comes in.

TechBrute
January 12, 2006, 05:02 PM
I pay for my tinfoil with cash, just in case....:uhoh:



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/hidebehindcouch.gif



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/t_early_germanic_picklhaube_tubi_hubi_helmet_.jpg

:p


This is what I get for not browsing here more often. Someone beat me to it.

Snagglepuss
January 12, 2006, 06:15 PM
I always use my cabelas card and earn points plus I think they send me more discount offers if I make big purchases. I recently got a Kimber customII at Cabelas for $451 after discounts, coupons, and cabelas points. Listed for $779. Traded it immediatly for a brand new Dan Wesson CBOB 10mm at a gun show.:what: :D
Couldn't have done it without firearm credit card purchases.

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