[SquirrelNuts]

Ok, to start off with, this thread is firearms related and is also related to me (I read somewhere that threads about THR members are never off topic, I think from Oleg Volk), but some of it is off topic.

I need some advice for a plan that I am working on. I have until May 9th to get all this done. My best friend is graduating from the Police Academy on May 9th, and I want to stick around to see that. I will keep the preface short, but basically I am planning to live in the woods for a while before starting a new life. I did disaster relief work for the American Red Cross starting on 9/11/2001 until 9/14/2001 (you figure it out). I have had many problems dealing with what I went through and have tried several times to get help. I developed a classic case of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder and severe depression, which is also tied to more things than 9/11. I have read posts by Mr. George Hill and I am sure he can verify these feelings along with the lost sleep and nightmares. I found it helpful in the past to talk with others about it, but now nothing works. I cannot even smile without it being fake. I try every day to work through it, but it has wrecked my life. Everyone has noticed that I am a completely different person. I am honestly a very nice person (sometimes too nice) and I just want to feel alive again. I wake up every day and feel nothing. My parents are disowning me. I work as a youth minister at my church where I have been a member for almost 22 years. Here I am trying to help kids run their lives when I cannot even handle my own. I feel like such a phony as Holden Caufield from The Catcher in the Rye would put it. I have always tried to do the right thing, and it is true that no good deed goes unpunished.

I have always been interested in survival and backpacking. I was in Boy Scouts for heaven knows how long and I have a lot of experience in the woods and on the Appalachian Trail. I read a book called My Side of the Mountain when I was in middle school and I have always been fascinated by it. A boy runs away from home and lives in a hollowed out tree for a year. That is who I want to be. I have read many survival manuals and practiced what they said. I have a few questions that I really do not see covered anywhere.

1) I want to take a .22LR for gathering food. I am also buying a snare tomorrow and I already have fishing gear. I own many .22’s, but I have a Browning Buckmark and an AR-7. Either of these would do fine for food. They probably weigh about the same, but the AR-7 is larger. Which would you take? I have a large stash of Remington Golden Bullets, and I figure I can carry a thousand or so.

I learned that you need five things to survive when I was a little kid. Oxygen (inherent), Clothing (got some), Water (very easy to find), Shelter (got it), and Food (the hard part).

2) I am not concerned about food during the warmer months, but does anyone have tips for the colder months? I was hoping some vets or survival experts might know good ways to get sustenance in the cold. I can always hunt animals in cold weather, but you need more than meat.

I will need some money once I am through with the living in the woods part.

3) I am working on getting as much cash as I can. If I work very hard, I did the math and I can come up with roughly $75,000 by May 9th by selling my stocks, bonds, three vehicles, twenty-something firearms, knives, ham radio gear, other radio gear, coin collection, jewelry, electrical engineering gear (scopes and such), electronics, model trains, books, camping gear, videos/DVD’s, and other items of value. What is the best way to keep that amount of money (or transport it) safely? I am not opposed to keeping it in a bank, but I understand that a $75,000 deposit “looks” funny.

I have dropped out of college in my senior year, and I am working to tie up loose ends. I am purchasing a large amount of dog food to leave at my parent’s house with my two girls (Samoyeds). I am looking for a place to live once I have my fun in the woods (I would like to do this for a year or more). I am going to leave a note at my work when I am leaving. I am returning anything I have borrowed from anyone. I am canceling subscriptions to things and my credit cards. I am selling or giving away my possessions. All of these things are in the works.

I would like to hear honest and sincere answers…please do not tell me to put the $75,000 in a pillowcase or something like that. Also, please do not try to talk me out of this. I have thought about this for a long time and made my decision and I am comfortable with it. This is the only thing I can think of that will make me happy again.

-SquirrelNuts

[Feanaro]

I can't say I approve of what you are doing, but I have never been depressed and have no idea what it's like. And it is your life, not mine.

I say take the AR-7 rifle. It's probably more durable(though I wouldn't really know). You might also consider a deer rifle awells. Never know when a bear or deer might pop out...

I wouldn't count on getting quite that much for your stuff. It's always less than you think. I would store it in a bank, perhaps even a nice Swiss one. That's a lot of money to trust your average bank with.

I also suggest you plan this out well, if you haven't already. You need to pick an area with a lot of running water, plenty of wild-life and so on. If you don't know exactly what you are taking, then you might want to look at recommended back-packing stuff, take off any stoves(except maybe a dutch oven, but those are heavy), things powered by batteries and the like. Just common sense, which I believe you have enough of.

Don't rely on me though, I'm not a mountain man. Hope you don't go off and kill yourself, it would be a sad waste.

[Dorrin79]

Sounds interesting.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems. You have my sincerest sympathies.

One question: why do you think this will help?

[SquirrelNuts]

Feanaro,

I was expecting to get replies telling me they disapprove. This is what I really want to do. My cash situation was a very conservative estimate. I am sure I can get the $75,000. I have a few perfect areas in my mind. I have spent PLEANTY of time in the woods, and I know what to look for. I am not really worried about that.

Dorrin79,

This is just the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

-SquirrelNuts

[Feanaro]

As I said, it is your life. What is good for one man might not be for another. I'm glad to hear you know what you are doing. I wish you luck in your... prolonged camping trip.

BTW, how long will you be staying the wild? However long you feel like?

I just thought of something. A shotgun might be more adaptable. The ammo is larger, aye, but you can go from bird to buck easily and it's still pretty accurate. You might wanna think on that.

[pax]

SquirrelNuts,

Having fought depression on my own, I understand how tangled things can get in one's mind and emotions. If you use the time to heal from your memories, rather than as a futile attempt to escape the inescapable pressures of life, you could be making a good move.

Unfortunately, my own experience has been that trying to escape from other people is generally a pretty bad sign for one's emotional state, so I urge you to find a counselor you can trust and go over your plans with him. It may be that you'll end up doing the same thing anyway, but from a healthier place.

I'm dubious about the practicality of finding enough 'wild' land that you could live on it for any appreciable amount of time without getting hauled off to the clink or the funny farm. Have you thought of specific places? (Don't tell us where they are -- but are they big enough? Remote enough? Untrafficked enough?)

I'd say get a .22, but plan to use snares if at all possible. Are you any good with a bow? Gun shots make noise, and rangers investigate poaching.

My uncle lived by himself for several years on a mining claim in the Sierra Nevadas, coming into town only rarely for brief supply trips. So I know what you are planning can be done. It was several weeks after my uncle suicided or was murdered before anyone found his body, so I also know that living by oneself far away from other people can be deadly dangerous. I say this not to frighten you, but to urge you to think through all the possible outcomes as you are figuring out what to take with you and where to go.

pax

You can't run away from trouble. There ain't no place that far. -- Uncle Remus

[cool45auto]

I don't know what to say. I hope everything works out. Good luck.

[Kentucky Rifle]

Figured it out, but only a few know why.
I have PTSD too. My own parents disowned me 30 years ago. Squirrel, you've gotta go get that therapy. I also began to think about suicide. Being out there in the woods might help, but it might make things worse too. It's a toss up, but I'd say worse. Loneliness might overtake you and that would be bad. I don't mean to rain on your plan. But personally, I began to get more and more lonely. (Even with people around.) The coping methods which I had developed when I was 19 to 21 didn't work at 50. You don't have to take my advice at all. However, first I told my long-time doctor and then he started me on meds and pointed me to the right therapist.
All this was difficult (and strangly embarrassing) for me to type. Good Luck.

KR

[hammer4nc]

With the financial resources you've mentioned, you can write your own ticket, as far as designing your search for self rediscovery. Speaking as someone who has chucked it all, to take an extended "vacation" (a 3-year odyssey ranging from south Mexico to Washington state), here's some thoughts...try to keep some positive goals you can look to on a daily basis. You mentioned hiking/backbacking...scaling the top 10 mountains on the lower 48, for example, or something smaller in scope. Be flexible in modifying the goals, as things change, but just having the goal, any goal to shoot for makes it worth getting up in the morning.

Take a look at the book "Travels with Charlie"...these days, a truck camper can provide a suprisingly comfortable mobile home base, between hiking trips, much better than a hollow log. It can be parked at trailheads, or most anywhere. Cold weather tips? Yeah, head south...again, having a vehicle you can live out of gives you much more flexibility. The USA is a goldmine of diverse places, and sometimes a change of scenery can do wonders. Take the dogs with you!

Squirrel, all the above are just a few practical tips...you might want to consider what kentucky rifle said; but something tough like this can be gotten through, and turned to your favor. Keep it positive, man. Good luck!

[axeman_g]

Squirel,
I know you live in Marietta, I live in Lawrenceville. We are neighbors. I have enjoyed your replies on this board and will miss your inputs.

If I may, let me give you my story of "dissolving into the background". I was a 22 yr
old. Not having ever found anything I enjoyed very much but dreams of being a
formula one racer, I decided to "wander" for a year. I read alot of books, practiced
alot of outdoor skills and scouted alot of territory. I lived a simple life anyway,
so I told my parents in mid march I was moving to Athens, Ga to go back to school, and slipped into the Pine Barrens of New Jersey, one of the most uninhabited places on eastern seaboard in late 80s. I stashed my jeep, sent the letter to my parents stating I was ok and moved into a lean-to on a un patrolled, privately owned parcel of 10000 acres or so. Some rich families ex hunting estate. I built a decent lean to, set up traps, collected wood, edible plants and started planting some seeds for vegetables. I quickly became efficient at hunting rabbits and marked all the deer beds I could find. Fishing and swimming in the local pond was how I spent most of the day. Just thought of what and how I was going to change my life. Why was I so bothered by other peoples perceptions of things, why couldn’t everyone else see thing clearly.

What I started to have problems with was missing personal relationships with people my age. I started to spy on canoests on the river close by, hoping to see young people having fun. I started to see that the problems I was having with others were totally based on my perceptions of the situations. That if I tried to stop controlling the events and went with them, that the ride or experience was better then the possibilities could have ever have been. As you have probably heard many times before, reality is better then fiction.

By mid july, I had enough solitude. I had had enough of crappie, bass, fight pickerels for my catch, rabbit, blueberries, corn, tomatoes and parsnips to eat. I had enough of snapper meat. I was sick of the deer flies, mosquitos and ticks. I had had enough of seeing fawns drink from a stream and not having anyone to share it with. I had had enough of witnessing wilderness life, and not being able to communicate the beauty, answering the inevitable questions, the at the time of my “disappearance”, annoying “so-whats”.

My advice, do it. But do it differently then you are planning. Stay in an area where you can get out. Merge into the woods, but keep the ability to come in and out at will. Don’t become scary to others. If people do stumble across you, keep yourself presentable, remember your manners, be friendly yet private. Go to get supplies. You mentioned backpacking, how about a AT through hike … or Pacific Crest Trail. I probably should have done that, but due to an ankle injury I can not hike long (+8 miles) distances.

Your story reminds me somewhat of my own, but exactly as one of my good friends. His PTSS came from volunteering in Indian orphanages and Afghanistan after the Russians pulled out. Same concerns and sleep loss you have. He did everything he could to find himself, to ease his inner stress. He solved it with becoming normalized. Seriously … he went to a therapist, started a light dose of paxil, married, started working at an insurance company of all places, bought the house and busied himself with life. He is very happy now. He states he caused 80% of his stress and confusion himself, by trying not to be normal, to stand out and be different and therefore better then the normal guy.

Please look into it. Try to change your view on things a little bit, just don’t throw it all to the wind. It could be the slippery slope you are just trying to avoid.

[Chris Rhines]

Squirelnuts -

If you really want to pull this off, you need to go take a look at www.backwoodshome.com. It has a ton of articles on living in the backcountry, minimalist survival, and other subjects you'll probably find useful.

A few specifics -

1.) I would avoid trying to survive by hunting/gathering if at all possible. At the very least, I'd want to set up a garden and maybe a hutch or two of rabbits. Not hard to do, and it gives you something to salt away for the winter.

2.) Land. You've got enough money to buy a nice stretch out in the middle of nowhere, you said you wanted to save most of your cash. Cool. You might look into getting a caretaker job. There are always a handful of timber companies, mining companies, rich guys with unused land, etc, who will let you live on their property in return for 'keeping an eye on it.' You'll have to do some searching, but it's worth checking out. I know one mountain-biking friend who got a job as a caretaker out in extra-rural California, on 300 acres of land. My friend got a salary, a two-room cabin to stay in, and the owner of the land (a rich guy who was planning a vacation home off in the future) showed up maybe once every couple of months, just to check on the place. If I sound envious, well, I am a bit...

3.) Take a serious look at what hammer4nc says. That's what I would go for. A truck camper, small RV, or even a VW Vangon could be a useful home base.

Last, not least, take care of yourself. Keep a means of communication handy (cellphone, ham radio), and use it, often. Humans are very social animals, and they cannot survive in the absence of contact with other members. We all want to see you get back.

- Chris

[TarpleyG]

While if it were me, I would land on a semi-deserted beach somewhere, but to each his own.

As fas as the money, get a safe-deposit box if you don't want to throw up any red flags but that's an awful lot of interest you are giving up for a year or so. A 12-month CD would be my personal choice if you can handle the scrutiny from the bank and IRS. Anything over $10,000 requires the bank to file paperwork with the IRS.

As far as credit cards, etc., pay them off but keep the accounts open. Put those in a safe-deposit box. You're gonna need them later and you may determine you need them sooner. In fact, I would carry one along with me as well as a moderate amount of cash "just in case" you decide you want a clean bed and a nice hot meal sometime. Also, make sure you keep your ID. Last thing you want is a bad confrontation with Fish & Wildlife.

For guns, I second the suggestion to take something more than a .22. Maybe a .223 rifle and your pistol as well. Won't add that much to what you will have to carry.

Good luck to you. I have been forever changed in the past two years also and while I was not directly involved, I have been depressed and it really sucks. Some folks just don't understand I guess. If I were single and had the money saved up, I'd buy a boat and just set sail for the Caribbean and live on the boat but, alas, I have responsibilities that I cannot get away from. I also have two dogs and really couldn't imagine living without them.

EDIT: Oh yeah, take those dogs with you. They will prove to be great companions and may very well save your life should you encounter someone/something.

GT

[crewzer]

I wish you the best of luck. Hopefully you are just wanting to explore the inner you. As far as the cash goes. I would suggest placing a certain amount in a bank account with a visa debit card. This would be so that in case of emergencies you could come into town and access some funds, never know when you are going to need some supplies. I would get a quality money belt and buy 10-15 gold coins. This will always bring instant value and tradeability. Take the rest of the funds and place them in cash in a safedeposit box. You then need to leave a good will. This way if some unforseen accident befalls you, you have taken care of everything. When you say you are going to live off the land, have you thought of buying a little plot up in them hills. That way no one can kick you out, this also allows you to have a storage area. You could invest in 1-2 years worth of back up food (MRE's). I would choose a different rifle. Perhaps a M6 Scout. You can get more bang for the book and have the advantage of a 410/22lr or 410/22 hornet . You might consider a j-frame 38 for personal protection from those 2 legged animals as well. They are everywhere. I to have thought of the great escape, but for different reasons. I wish you well on your journey, may it be a long safe one.

[ElToro]

sorry to hear about your depression...

I work for a bank and everything you hear about the 10k rule is not all that bad, just dont show up with all that cash at one time and even if you do, just dont lie about it. It was not edesigned for guys who sold their car and are depositing cash one time, its for dope dealers who deposit 20k cash everyday and dont have a business excuse like they own a 7-11 to back it up.

May want to make multiple deposits over a bit of time. also put you mom or somebody you REALLY trust on the account.. just in case you need to get a wire, or open it with a mega-bank that has atm and offices everywhere. you said you had stocks, maybe just put it all in a money fund at the brokerage house

i would really consider the camper trailer route and take one or both dogs with you for company.

I would take one handgun, maybe a titanium or scandium .357, enuff oomph to get the job done on a good sized animal and a aluminum frame .22 as well. keep weoght to a minimum..

get some real quality gear before you had out as well.

also take some pre-paid postcards so you can drop note to your folks once in a while. also take a journal and really use it for writing your inner thoughts, who knows, may end up being the next american novel or movie of the week. you can always stop in a ymca or church somewhere along the way, even without a donation they will help you out

BTW what kinda guns you selling to finance this trip ?

Good luck my friend, I'm sending you positive thoughts.
Tim

[bogie]

Suggestion:

Lose the whole "survivalist" bit. After Crazy Ted, it don't play too well...

Instead, go for a complete change of scenery - Head up to Alaska, something like that, and find a job (that'll allow you to live comfortably) that's outdoors where you can have minimal interaction with people until you get your head back together.

A van or truck camper is transportation, and you can sorta live in one if you need to - keep your personal appearance up, and the hassle factor goes down. Maybe do a little budget traveling. My little brother (the left-wing one...) dropped out for a while, and hitched around the country, finding jobs when he needed cash.

And you WILL get your head back together. Trust me. And you're going to need to interact with people. At least some...

Last week, we had a stress management guy doing seminars at my workplace. He said that a LOT of folks are pretty stressed out (not just because we're getting bought out), but because of 9/11 and the aftermath. And more than a few of the symptoms he described hit WAY close to home... I've got an attention span of about 32 seconds (on a good day), not sleeping well, etc... And that's happening to a BUNCH of folks. But I know I'll get past it.

[griz]

First, I have nothing but best wishes for you, whatever you decide.

Next, as others have already asked, how will this quest help you? Do you see it as getting away from things or more like being in a better place to work through things?

This feels awkward to me since I have a reclusive streak in me, so instead of using my own words I’ll pass along some advise I heard from a friend. He said people have two basic requirements to keep their minds in order. One is to "stare into the fire", meaning the thoughts that run through your head when you relax in front of a campfire. This dates back to cavemen and while not everybody has the fire, we all have the thoughts, dreams, and flights of fancy. The other requirement is somebody to listen to you. Everybody will have a different ratio of the two, but having somebody to talk things out with is a basic human need. If it weren’t then counselors would go out of business. Admittedly I’m looking at this from the perspective of someone who never had to suffer through severe depression, but it seems to me that being depressed all alone would be worse than being depressed where you could get some help.

You will definitely have to do what you think best, but please give some thought to getting a little help to get you through these rough times.

[anchored]

Since you'll be in teh woods, most of your cash won't have to be liquid. Buy a house, turn it over to a rental management agency, open a bank account for them to deposit to, pay the property taxes in full, and leave. Or, skip the rental property and just by undeveloped land, then sell it when you get back. I've done moer than one property closing where the buyer showed up with the money in a paper bag, and then its the seller's problem to deposit >10,000.

[Litlman]

Squirrel, I know that you did not ask for this but , I have to say it . You need to get your head on straight before you go self isolate in the woods . No matter how small your support system is right now it is better than none in the middle of nowhere . All alone in the woods for an extended period of time is not the place for an actively depressed person to be. I can see doing your plan if you are well but, if irrational it is not a good one . Seek help, get well and then do it! You sound like a good person and I only wish you well . Good Luck.

[Carlos Cabeza]

Hey 'Nuts, I have been in a similar situation. I am a relative of a Murrah building bombing survivor. I was on the scene within ten minutes of the blast. I have seen things I wish I had never seen. I went to counseling for PTS and it helped me tremendously. I hope you will consider doing the same. I'm not asking you to give up your "camping trip" but I think you should do as some other poster's have suggested and seek some help. I like your idea of getting in touch with your inner self but you should always have a way to get out of the woods. Yes, take the dog/dogs they can be a great friend while alone in the backcountry. Try it for a few weeks and then you should be able to make a determination of the direction you wish to pursue. A man's mind needs to be strong enough not to confuse solitude with lonliness. As others have said, whatever you decide I wish you the best and may God be your campin' buddy.

Carl

[TallPine]

Just some thoughts for you, Squirrel, since you asked ...

1) Overall, I think it might be a good plan - with a few modifications.

2) Why are you selling everything? That has an ominous ring of finality to me :( Most of what you sell would cost much more to replace later. I would sell whatever you need to get a stake, but store the more important stuff (like guns!) in a safe place for your future life. You are going to have a future life, aren't you?

3) Maybe you should set a time frame for your "trip" - 3 months, 6 months, maybe - you can always shorten or extend it, but just have an idea that this is a "time out" and not an end in itself.

4) Consider the vehicle/backpacking route. Maybe a small PU or Jeep, you can camp out on the roadside and also take extended backpack excursions. There are places out here in MT where I have camped with a vehicle and not seen anyone for days at a time. You just have to get out of the campgrounds and off the main roads. Lots of old logging roads lead to some pretty unused sites.

5) Food is just not that expensive to buy. Fine to carry the 22 rifle and fishing gear to supplement, but some macaroni and hot cereal fills a lot of holes and adds some helpful carbohydrates. And as others have suggested, I would carry a medium (38/357) revolver for defense. Besides, shooting anything other than small game may get you into a "Claude Dallas" situation which would be even more depressing.

6) Consider trying to get a job on a farm or ranch out west. Not always easy to come by, especially in these drought years, but you can always ask in between your backpack excursions. I will tell you that being clean cut will go a long way when you ask some western rancher for a job. Save your shorts and sandals for camping --- jeans, shirt, ball cap, and boots/shoes will at least get them to consider you. (this ain't Berkeley)

7) Land: you can buy 20 acres out in this area off of main roads, phone, and power lines for maybe $12-16K. No building codes so put up anything you like, but you might have to haul all of your water. The plus is you can always sell it later or just keep it for a get-away after you go back to the "world"

8) I'm going to break away from everyone else and suggest that you stay the heck away from "therapists" (the rapists)

9) If you don't do anything else, or maybe BEFORE you do anything else, just pack up a car and take an long driving trip out west - MT, WY, etc .... IMO, there is something healing about our open western landscape. Get off the interstate, visit some small towns, drive the backroads through National Forest (not the Parks), and get a feel for what you really might want to do.

PM or email me anytime ....

[JPM70535]

Squirrel

I kinow you feel you are doing the only thing you can to bring some peace to your life, but from my experiences in dealing with the results of untreated PTSD. The odds that you will find the answers to your problem in isolation and withdrawal. The best thing you could do is to seek professional counseling.

Having said that, if you are determined to do this, I would probably try and equip myself with enough pre-packaged survival food as my budget could stand, because you can't really assure your guarantee of abundant wild game supply. When you are hungry, your problems are likely to magnify, increasing the depression you feel. I would also have an adequate supply of cold weather clothing and a source of contact with the outside world, ( a hand powered Radio comes to mind ) When you are there alone, cold and hungry, the solace of another voice, albeit a mechanical one could stem the tide of depression .

If you do this, put your money in CDs and leave them in a safety deposit box. Put your parents on the authorization list, in case something happens and you dont get back.

I concur with the advice given to take a larger caliber rifle. A CAR 15 would be ideal with its short overall length and light weight. Do most of your hunting with the 22lr but have the 223 for big game.

Good luck and try to keep a positive outlook because things will get better in time.

[bogie]

Yeah, and don't forget your support base here - I'm sure that you'll find folks you "know" in just about any area of the country... Don't wear out your welcome, but hey, if you're in the St. Louis area, find a cybercafe, and we can do dinner or something...

[COHIBA]

Deleted by Oleg Volk. Honest is not the same as needlessly offensive.

[dance varmint]

This has already been done, by a guy named Henry David Thoreau, in the 1840's. You might want to read his account, entitled Walden, subtitled Life In the Woods.
It can be found online by going to google.com and searching for: project gutenberg walden

[TallPine]

An alternate suggestion:

Find some divorced gal with six bratty kids, and marry her.

Then all your other problems will seem insignificant :D

(just kidding, really)

[Betty]

COHIBA,
CHECK YOUR PM.

[spacemanspiff]

before you up and drop all your material possessions, it would be a good idea to go on a short camping trip, maybe a week, see how you adjust to it. if all goes well, then do what you need to do.

i'd recommend taking the dogs as well. samoyeds are known for being great friends, they enjoy human companionship. they were the only breed of dogs used in the arctic way back when that preferred to be with their masters then tied up with the rest of the dogs. their "speech" (you know what i mean) is very refreshing to hear. my boss has a samoyed puppy now, he had two that he had to put down the last two years, and they were great dogs, hes having problems raising this new puppy though.

anyways, take more than 1000 rounds, its .22lr; you can pack more of that. come on, you know you'll be sitting around out there, and what more enjoyable thing can you do other than target shoot?

you definitely need a heavier caliber as well. unless where you are going doesnt have large predators, at least a .243 with a couple hundred rounds.

also need a good handgun as well. there might be hidden drug growing operations you stumble across.

it would also be nice if you dropped someone from THR a line once in a while, let us know you're okay. more than one person should be informed of your location, in case something happens so if theres an emergency, like something happens to your loved ones, you can be contacted. perhaps having a PO box in a small town nearby that you can check once a month or so.

finally, i hope you'll give us THR's first crack at the guns you wish to sell. you know we'll provide good homes for them.

[Steel]

Only if us highroad folks can visit!

[Betty]

SquirrelNuts,

Before you trek out on your own, you are more than welcome to share your difficulties here. Many members may have experienced similar and can help you through your tough time. We have allowed threads like yours to stay in Gen'l Discussions, like other threads that deal with losing a loved one. We're here for our members in their time of need. PTSD is serious. You're not alone here.

:)

[spacemanspiff]

what is the main goal of most humans?

we 'survive', but its not really 'survival'. its more of an empty existance. we work at jobs we dislike. we are forced to associate with people we would rather not associate with. we pay for things we dont really need to pay for. we get invovled in relationships because of a weakness humans have that makes us think we "need" to rely on someone else in submission, or submit others underneath us. as a collective, we wind up lying to one another. we use deceit to make ourselves look better, be more likable, to impress others.

in simpler times, all any species really pursued was to mate, feed, kill, repeat until you die. i admire squirrel for at least right now, contemplating simplfying his life. get back to the basics and solve the problems within.
a therapist can only listen to what he has to say and maybe prescribe some medications. that may work for some people, but not for everyone. i've found that solitude can provide me with all the answers to any ethical or moral dilemma i am faced with.
in solitude, you can't lie to yourself.

[RustyHammer]

I can understand your desire, but I've always managed to stay put. My dream has been to take six months and do the Appalachian Trail (from GA to Maine). Thousands attempt it every year. (Some even carry G U N S.)

Have you ever heard of it? If not, check it out. There is also the Pacific Coast Trail -- PCT -- which is even longer than the AT. There are shelters, camps, and such along the way as well. Much safer, generally, and may work for what you're trying to do ("Find yourself")

Here are a few starter links, but you find can many more, including journals of hikers, by doing a browser search:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/

http://www.ubmail.ubalt.edu/~dhaynes/at_hike/jnl_p1.html

http://cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/orgt/bpack/OtherSites.html

http://appalachia.outdoors.org/bbs/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=974

Think about it.

[Steve Smith]

Squirrelnuts, there was an article in Mother Earth News a few months ago about people living is small caves or dens. This would seem much better than being in the elements. Perhaps you should search for copy of it.

[SquirrelNuts]

I appreciate all the support you guys and gals are offering. I have sat on this for a while and thought about all my options. I honestly believe that this is my best option. I have gone to counselors, but I only find temporary relief. It is impossible to describe my mind in letters and words, but from the responses, I know some of you have a very good idea.

COHIBA-I did not ask for any of this, things happen for a reason. I just do not know what the reason is. I am a very intelligent individual, things are just not so hot for me right now. I have heard people describe going crazy as continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting to get different results. I realize that what I am doing sounds odd and out there, but I have enough sense to tell myself that.

I am a very social person, I make friends easily and talk to everyone. I have never met a stranger. I know that humans are social creatures, and I always feel better around people. I have always been an independant person, and lately, I have found myself becoming clingy and swayed by other people.

I realize that My Side of the Mountain is fiction, but it is not impossible. The concept sounds great to me. Being in the woods is the only place that I really feel anything anymore.

I am also considering moving away for a while before I start this journey. I am selling my things as a mean to start over, not as a means to an end.

I have spent a lot of time on the Appalachian Trail. I have completed all of Georgia and parts of North Carolina. I figured out that I have section hiked 9% of it. It was one of the places I considered going, but it would be hard to find a large enough free area to live off of. I realize that this is dangerous, but so is just about everything. Heck, I am sure there is a warning about typing this post causing cancer (but maybe only in PRK). I feel in more danger driving down the road that in living in the woods. I have to worry about thousands of other people being hazardous to my health out there. In the woods I only have to worry about myself and a few other things being hazardous to my health.

I am also open to purchasing some food that I would need. I learned about raising rabbits when I was in Russia.

-SquirrelNuts

[SquirrelNuts]

SteveSmith,

I had considered doing that after seeing Cast Away (yes everyone, I realize it is fiction). I know there are a LOT of caves in Tennessee and Kentucky. I know of several wild caves.

RustyHammer,

I wanted to through-hike the AT when I finished college. Well, I read about NiblewillNomad and the ECT. I bought his book from Mountian Crossings at Walasi-Yi at Neal's Gap in January. I thought this would be perfect. I started reading it, and most of the sections besides the AT, Benton MacKaye Trail and the Alabama/Georgia Pinhotis were road walks. Even a large portion of the IAT consists of road walks. Road walking does not sound like much fun to me.

I came up with another plan. I wanted to thru-hike the AT, but add a twist. I live about 70 miles from Amicalola Falls State Park. I have hiked the 8.8 mile trail from Amicalola to Springer Mountain before. So I decided that I wanted to hike from my front door to Amicalola Falls, then to Springer, then to Maine. I just think that saying "I walked out my front door one day and ended up in Maine" sound a lot better than "I have thru-hiked the AT." The 70 miles would take an extra three days or so. I typed out the exact best walking route several months ago.

I am a member of whiteblaze.net as "Squirrel" and have done a lot of reading on there. I love the picture galleries.

-SquirrelNuts

[Steve Smith]

SquirrelNuts, check your PM.

[Preacherman]

You have PM. As one who's BTDT just as you have (and had to deal with the whole PTSD/depression thing as a result), please be assured of my prayers.

[COHIBA]

SN, sorry for calling YOU an idiot. the idea is what i was prefacing.
get out from behind the computer and GO OUT.
hell man, your in ATL.
there is more to life than sitting under a tree in the rain w/ a 22 praying for a chipmunk to come along. the treks and trips are great to do. get a good job that affords you the time and money to go on a week trip a couple of times a year.
i'm not gonna sit here and inflate your "grand idea". it is not the best thing for you to entertain some fantasy that by secluding yourself you will make things better.
live on the planet w/ us.

[Ol' Badger]

Hope ya heal buddy. Bring a Swiss Army knife with you too.
I managerd 61 days without people up in the mountains here in VA. But I missed Pizza too much and my girl. I managed to work out my problems thou. The quite will help you think. IMO

[bogie]

Dude, just a suggestion...

Just noticed the Atlanta thing...

Go someplace without traffic jams for a few days. You'll feel MUCH better. Trust me.

[SquirrelNuts]

there is more to life than sitting under a tree in the rain w/ a 22 praying for a chipmunk to come along. That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time.

I have been trying to live on the planet. I have gone out and done thing. I went to the range yesterday. I have been going out to parties, going to bars, going to movies, going to the park, going out with girls, visiting friends, taking trips. Trying to be normal, but it all feels so fake.

bogie,

That's my whole plan, but change "days" into months. :)

-SquirrelNuts

[Trisha]

Squirrelnuts;
I have two dear friends who are Viet Nam veterans, both Long Range Reconnaissance (two tours apiece). It's common for them to disappear for weeks, even months at a time to depressurize - and they do it together usually, sometimes alone.
I can't judge what you're undertaking, but I'd offer a suggestion, as a way of making your sabbatical have a purpose (above and beyond the obvious):
Consider making a complete circuit of the contiguous United States, traversing National Parks and Forests. Take pictures and keep a log/journal. You will be constantly challenged and stimulated with the journey and the changing environment. That's a necessity, as perhaps grounding yourself in one place may lead to some degree of stagnation. Keep moving, stay challenged, and see a dynamic process be an integral component of your search for balance.
At the completion of your journey, you may well have the material for a book compiling both the physical distance as well as the emotional. You could well create something invaluable for others who struggle with PTSD, and that would be very worthwhile, yes?

Every crisis is a combination of two elements, opportunity and risk.

As to what to do with your funds, I would suggest you buy undeveloped land somewhere, as such is available at well under a thousand an acre even in these times; leaving a small percentage in a passbook savings account to remain accessible for emergencies.

May the Goddess be visible to you throughout all the times ahead, and may you find both peace and your center, knowing always that you are a child who lives in the light, free from any darkness or stain imposed by this veneer of civilization and its' convolutions that so casually wreak havoc with the living heart.

Always, is;
Trisha

[Double Maduro]

Squirrelnuts,

I think you need to be in counseling and right now. All the things you say you are feeling and doing are classic signs of someone who is contemplating suicide or worse. Yes, I caught the referrence to "Catcher In The Rye".

If you are truly feeling the things you say, you cannot resolve these feelings off by yourself in the woods. You haven't been able to resolve them where you are with your support structure in place, how do you think you can resolve them on your own?

Get to counseling, talk to your parents, talk to your minister, talk to your youth group about what you have experienced-try not to scare them to much-. Keeping these feelings to yourself will not help!

You need someone to talk to who is not personally involved, someone who can focus on you. Hell, if nothing else PM me and I will give you my phone number.

You are not the only one who has gone through this, you won't be the last. I just don't want you to be the next one I read about in the papers.

I am wishing you as much strength and luck as there is. It is your life, don't waste it.

[SquirrelNuts]

Well, I am not interested in killing myself. I am interested in living, hence the post. I wake up each morning and have no feelings. I want to feel alive again. I can remember what it feels like, and I want to it back. The reference to Catcher in the Rye was to the word "phony," nothing more, nothing less. I want to be able to smile again and have it mean something. I want to be able to complete simple tasks without them seeming like they are the most difficult thing in the world. I want to be able to care about something again. I want to get better. The path I have been living has not made me feel better, but worse. Hence, I want the change.

I often take care of my best friend's son. He just turned two and is VERY intelligent. The kid is bilingual and is teaching ME Farsi. I used to be afraid of kids because I was ignorant about them. When I met him, he changed my mind. I love kids now. It is because of him that I want kids. I want to be around to have that experience and be able to enjoy it.

-SquirrelNuts

[Baba Louie]

Go for it!

You only live once and it isn't a dress rehearsal.

Hug a tree daily, contemplate why good and evil are present in life, listen for that tree falling in the forest with no one around.

Watch snakes make love.

Find edible plants.

Write, draw and photograph.

Travel around and see new sites.

Make new friends.

.22 and .38/.357 only.

Good knife or two (stone too).

Stay safe. (to a point)

Go see a good doctor and dentist before you set out.

Check in once in awhile.

A part of me will be with you (or wants to be) when you go be free.

Freedom

Liberty

Its yours for the taking

JFDI

Adios

[bogie]

It's starting to sound to me as if you're feeling that you lack a purpose - a reason for existing.

No big deal. That happens to folks all the time. Usually starts on a Monday, and wears off by Friday afternoon.

Looking at everything, and considering today's society, I doubt if a total wilderness seclusion thing would work... Here's my suggestion:

Spend $10K on a decent truck or van, and a bit of camping gear. Drive to different places, and see them. Maybe hike/backpack a little. Trust me, there's a LOT of stuff out there. Don't take interstates. Do odd jobs, whatever, to stretch your cash. Talk to REAL people, not folks who think that a 60 minute drive to work is normal. Heck, you're religious, right? Go out and (subtly) witness a bit on the trip. See how many different churches of your denomination you can visit - some ministers may want you to speak, whatever. You may even do some good.

When a second $10K runs out, sit back and reassess.

[WYO]

It sounds to me like you are planning what I would consider to be an extended hunting and camping trip. It sounds like fun if it is used as an adventure rather than an escape from reality. It is going to be hard to find fruits and vegetables in a cold weather climate. I would buy a small, used hard shell trailer and load it up with staples such as rice, coffee, beans, canned fruits and vegetables, batteries and toilet paper. (You would have to observe safe storage procedures in bear and lion country.) I’d bring a couple of propane tanks for emergency use only. There are a lot of national forest nooks and crannies that you can drive to that will become snowed in for the winter. Tow the trailer there and think about entrusting the tow vehicle to someone who will keep it running for the duration of your absence. Find a place with an abundance of deadfall trees because you aren’t supposed to cut trees. If this done in conjunction with local hunting seasons, there would be an abundance of legal game. The camping in the national forests around here, outside of established campgrounds, is free. You are supposed to relocate at least once every 14 days, but I don’t know how you could be expected to move once the heavy snows come and preclude moving. You could consult the local forest service people about that.

If I were going to do that in the west, I would want a .308/.30-06 class rifle and a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun. The rimfire isn’t a bad idea either. One of the combo rifle/shotguns would get you down to 2 firearms and could take any game that you could encounter. I’d probably also carry a self defense pistol.

I wouldn’t go anyplace that I couldn’t walk/snowshoe out of in a day or two if I decided that I wanted to get out.

P.S., you still would have to contend with snowmobile noise in some areas.

[AJ Dual]

I say go ahead, but do it in one of the suggested styles that maintains your most basic links to society. i.e. don't "sell everything" and give your dogs away. (even if they know your family, your leaving will hurt them too.)

I like the idea of buying land and homesteading, or taking the backpacking sabbatical trips, or maybe even just going solo with a small RV and your dogs, and camping more remotely as you see fit, but pull into RV camps when you want company.

Don't just "dissapear" into the woods, have some sort of structure or a plan. And living without any infrastructure is much more difficult than anyone, no matter their experiences would imagine. If you run into a bad spot of weather, or can't hunt enough food, or hurt yourself, you might wind up using your "failure" to be a successfull hermit against yourself.

I think the idea of being "remote" isn't a bad one, but don't make it the primary focus of your challenge. Maybe buy a remote parcel, and build a cabin from scratch. Then, when your're "better" you now have this land and your "achievment" in the form of a cabin to have as a getaway thereafter.

[SquirrelNuts]

I have received many e-mails and private messages. I appreciate the great concern. I would like to clear up something that has come up several times. I am NOT interested in hurting myself or any others. Some have expressed concern over my selling things, returning things, tieing up loose ends, etc. The reason I listed those things is to let everyone know that I am serious. How many times have your heard someone tell you a plan that they have no means of implementing? They say they want X car, but you know they can only afford Y car. You ask them how they can afford X car, and they cannot tell you. Or someone says they want to lose weight, but they have no plan for doing such.

If someone comes up to me and tells me they want to live in the woods, but have not thought about it and have no plans, I would be willing to bet it was not going to happen. I listed my plans to let you know that I have thought about this all, and I am trying to cover my bases.

I was working with a professor and a counselor at school that were great. The professor noticed changes in me. We talked and he refered me to a counselor. I talked with her, and would feel great right after. I kept on running things through my head and what I was feeling. I had hidden many things away that I did not remember until I was actually talking about them, if that makes any sense.

I told my parents about what I was going through. I spoke with each of them separately. My mother talked to me about it, and was supportive. My father basically blew me off and told me I was making it up. I felt so ashamed and embarassed that I stopped talking to the professor and counselor. I felt like I had done something wrong. This was in February and I stopped going to school the next day. I was actually doing very well this semester. I was expecting straight "A's" with one class possibly making a "B," but it was an "A" thus far.

I talked to the girl that I was dating whose pictures I posted from the range. She had experienced similar things as an ICU nurse. She travels a lot to hospitals as needed, so I don't talk to her much now.

-SquirrelNuts

[bogie]

Yeah, that sounds good - Live in a van/big ol' tent (trust me, after a coupla weeks, the tent seems to shrink...), and make your mark upon the world... Then, when you're through, you have your vacation cabin ready to rock for when you need to escape.

SUGGESTION: Make the thing "to code" as far as foundation, etc., so that if you want to see the land (at a profit), you can.

[Still Learning]

Squirrel:

I wish you the best. What ever you decide to do, take plenty of writing materials and keep a journal. Writing out your thoughts and about the way you feel can really help a lot.

Still Learning,
Oklahoma City Bombing Survivor with scars.

[SquirrelNuts]

I like the journal idea. Maybe I can post it online. Stop at a library with Internet access.

Oh, I like the idea of buying land and building a cabin on it to have something to show for it. I already have a log cabin in Canada though. It is on a lake, pleaty of food there, pleanty of water too. I had considered staying there, but it gets snowed in for the winter. That, and it would be a semi-obvious place to look.

-SquirrelNuts

[Bruce H]

Find the most dangerous job that you can do. Work at it as much as your body will stand. You will be concentrating so much on what you are doing or be so tired that you will sleep. After awhile what ever was bothering you will seem pretty silly compaired to what you have just accomplished. There should be lots of work in the Iraqi oil fields real soon. That will be about as severe an enviroment as you can find. You need to do something that requires all your concentration so you don't have time to worry about insignifigant stuff.

[Bottom Gun]

You’ve gotten some good advice so far. If I were doing it I would:
Leave your stocks where they are. You can’t lose any more than you probably already have and you might have a pleasant surprise when you decide to come out again.

Get a good 4WD truck with chains, a camper shell and/or a hard side trailer and use it as your base camp. Drive to the edge of a wilderness area and walk in for two weeks at a time. Come out, move your base and do it again with fresh supplies. You can’t stay in the same spot if you’re going to live off the land. You’ll use it up. The National Forests have a 14 day limit anyway.

Buy a GPS, compass, plenty of batteries, a good fishing outfit and lots of tackle, vitamins and first aid supplies, a good binocular, a 12 gauge with sling and plenty of shells for hunting AND protection, a mirror, plenty of fire starter, several good knives, a hatchet, bow saw, and lots of twine, rope, duct tape and wire. Be sure to take plenty of salt, bouillon, a water filter, wool clothing and several ponchos.

Forget the high powered rifle. You won’t be hunting any big game since it will be too difficult to preserve the meat unless you’re at high altitude or in snow country.

Take one or both of your dogs. They are your security system in addition to being your companions.

Take a radio along so you can stay informed and get weather reports. If you plan to go way in somewhere, I’d consider some form of 2-way radio.

Just my two cents.

[Azrael256]

Heading off into the wilderness to be alone with the almighty and his creations is not exactly a new idea, but it is one that is very highly thought of in a number of cultures that seem to have quietly stood the test of time. It can be very therapeutic. In all honesty, I am envious.

Please be careful. Be careful of the things you might find out there, the people you might encounter, and that annoying thing between your ears that won't let you get a decent night's sleep. It is a dangerous thing, that brain, so watch out lest it harm you.

Please, please, please write. Stop into a library now and then, keep a journal, scratch something on flat rocks, whatever, just write. Not only will it help you to sort out what is bothering you, but the parts that aren't too personal to share will make a great read for the rest of us. Maybe take some pictures, too. I think we would all love to see some pictures.

Good luck, stay safe, and come back to us when you're ready.

[Drjones]

Wow.

I just want to say that your post really touched me.

I am very sorry for the problems you are having, and I hope you find solutions, comfort, and happiness in your new journey.

I wanted to add that you should be sure to take along a couple top-notch knives like Strider or Swamprat/Busse.


Good luck

Drjones

[Carlos]

First of all, I want to say that ALL of you people are just awesome. I expected to find a thread like one would find over on another board I won't mention.

There's really nothing more I could add, but:

1. Treatment for depression with therapy would be much better than taking any medication. I tried this, with prodding from family, and I was not the same person. Therapy in this case, will be your Odyssy (sp?). Follow everybody's advise here. I have a friend who has been on Paxil for awhile, and I swear this dude is just turning more bitter and quite frankly starting to get EVIL.

2. I think you should maintain some human contact on a regular basis. Taking the dogs is a good thing though.

3. This is an ultimate opportunity to clear your head, start to feel good about things, soul search, etc. Please don't spoil it all by commiting suicide.

4. Write a journal of your adventures and maybe share it with us in the future.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you feel happy again one day. I'm sure working on it for myself. For me, it's having good friends. Sounds like you got a few here.

My best.

Carl

[Drjones]

Hi.

I wanted to echo what others have said:

Take along a lot of paper and a lot of writing instruments.

Writing in a journal is one of the best ways to work through problems.

Heck, I feel better after writing just having gotten the stuff out of my body!

Writing down your thoughts also solidifies them and helps you think them through more thoroughly.

Do it.

[cratz2]

Well, reading through this thread has really been an eye-opening experience. It is easy for many of his to hide behind our on-screen persona but in truth, most of us have or have had issues and experiences we'd really rather not have had.

I'd be far from the first person to suggest what to do with the money. In my situation, I'd get a safe and leave it at my mothers house but certainly know that unfortunately not everyone has family they can impliditly trust.

I'd definately recommend the small garden already suggested. I don't know anything about raising rabbits but that sounds like an excellent idea as well.

As for a gun recommendation, I'd probably use my 6" Dan Wesson 22 revolver. With some practice and using a rest, shots are possible out to nearly 125 yards and are pretty consistant out to 75 yards or so. If I didn't have this, and had no budget, I'd get a Freedom Arms, or I would consider a Ruger Single Six with some trigger work. Small game bullets have good effect on game and ruin very little meat. Maybe some Stingers in case you had an issue with more upright-walking folks but then, I guess that would go against your reasoning for doing this.

If you go through with this, I wish you the best of luck and hope you get something out of it. I know there's no way I could undertake something like this but certainly am not going to try to talk you out of it.

I would like to give a sincere offer to talk privately about... things. I'm no therapist but have gone through a lot in the past 15 years or so and my schooling may lend some help as well.

Take care,

Christopher Ratz

[Carlos]

Heading off into the wilderness to be alone with the almighty and his creations is not exactly a new idea, but it is one that is very highly thought of in a number of cultures that seem to have quietly stood the test of time. It can be very therapeutic. In all honesty, I am envious.

Me too. Seriously.

[4 eyed six shooter]

I too am sorry to hear of your depression. I also like the idea of buying a piece of rural land well off the beaten track. I would hate to see you get stuck somewhere that you could not easily get out of if the food runs lean or you are injured or sick. If you do end up well away from everything, be sure to get a good kit of meds from your doctor in case you get sick.
Many of the posts have great ideas, I hope you will consider some of them. The idea of getting some professional help prior to taking off is a good one. Getting away is one thing, total isolation is another. I'm not sure it would really be the best answer. Being somewhere that you can easily get out of to get supplies and a little interaction with others may be the best route to start out with. It will give you the isolation you want, but gives you a safety valve. Best of luck to you, John K

[Yohan]

It's always been said that different people have different approaches to solving different problems, and it seems like you may have come across yours. Best of luck to you, and I really hope you recover and make the best of mother nature. I'm sure with a decision as serious as this, you're not acting out of sudden intuition, so all I can say is good luck, and I hope you find peace regardless of what steps you go through. One question arises, will you stop by an internet cafe perhaps to drop us THR's a note on how life on the wild side is going? :cool: :D

[spacemanspiff]

not intending to hijack this thread, but i think yohans last post to this thread earned him one 'get out of jail free' card.

use it wisely yohan. :D

[Carlos]

This is indeed an excellent thread.

One other thing. While you're out sitting by the campfire, contemplating, enjoying the shear beauty of the world from your vantage point,

Why not take up something new: Like Learn How to Play the Guitar, or Harp, Captain Picard flute thingie.

Music for me is a savior and keeps me going. I play fair guitar. Music is pure JOY!!! and natural.












































I wanna go. :(

If it were me, I'd take the trusty synthetic Ruger 10/22 with stainless scope. An Eagle patrol pack sounds in order as well. :)

[tyme]

You aren't really being rational. You don't need 75k to go live in the woods. You do not need to sell your gun collection. Leave everything where it is, and take money out of stocks if you have any and put it in reputable mutual funds (or perhaps bonds).

Living outside of society is fine, but realize going in that it is not an end in itself. You should not be trying to escape society but rather should be trying to understand society. Take some books to read if you start getting really depressed. Remember, virtually 100% of the animal kingdom would probably laugh at many of the complexities of our society, but you don't see them routinely killing themselves or going off into the middle of nowhere (as much as that's possible) and dying from exposure or starvation, do you?

If you ever think things are not worth it, that and a good book should be all the inspiration you need to stay out of trouble. Life's what you make it. It's only worthless if you make it worthless. And worthlessness is not permanent. There are many, many people who consider their lives to have become worse since 9/11. That means nothing about the future.

[biere]

I like the idea of cashing it all in. It is a way to start over, and it also means you don't need to insure and license a car, or worry about a house fire taking all your stuff from you. Or your extra guns in the safe rusting away, or you having to cosmoline things for storage and then paying for storage.

I would either buy land bordering state and national parks with the money, or stick it in a savings account or maybe some other type of account if you need access when you are far away from it. The buying land thing means you are just playing in your back yard. I consider gold a tad heavy to carry and also expensive to try and cash in for an emergency. Some other form of money would be my method of carrying money on me.

I would go with a 22 lr that has a long enough barrel to get some good speed out of the rimfire round, is accurate, is robust in design, and that I am comfortable using. My choice is neither of yours so I can't say since I have not even shot the ones you have. Pack that ammo well since rimfires get a rep for not handling rough storage well for some reason.

For winter survival, check how the indians did it in that area in the past. Also research records and find the worst winter for that area because that is the sort of thing that will kill you. You can not make plans for average anything. I also recomend checking the globe for countries with similar or same climates. 3rd world answers are what you need, does not matter who came up with them they just need to work.

I also think a trip to the dentist would be a good idea before you start, most of the folks who lived to write about dropping out had some interesting teeth stories as well.

More important than a 22 will be the snares, I would take several and start practicing with them tomorrow since having one does not mean you can use it.

I recomend the journal or web updates because I find writing helps me see what I am thinking. Hard to describe, but when I look back on things I wrote in the past it shows me how I have changed and what not. And since you wish to change, maybe it would be worth a try to see if it helps.

Regardless of your choices, good luck.

[coonan357]

squirell , having been in your position recently as you have responded to some of my posts , the Thr family have a lot of good advice to give and help to give as the have helped me ( to all a thank you as you know who you are ) I have maybe one or several suggestions , it would be a kind of neat suggestion , 1. get the camper/p/u truck or maybe a used winnabago type vehicle and set out on the Squirrel THR member Tour , statring out in your area and go around the USA and Meet the different members of the THR Family Take notes ,Pictures ,Make it into a kind of Book to see what we are all really like and you get to meet us and see different parts of the country ( this country is so vast and different and I have yet to see it all in my 1.25 million miles of driving a truckand I have met so many people in my travels ) it will allow you to cool off and collect your thoughts . I wish I had the financial fluidity that you have to try to do what you want to do . if not then keep seeking a counslor, like an adict you have admitted you have a problem which is the first step saying you want help and stoping therapy is not a way to fix it . be humble as the lord expects you to be . If you decide to think about this suggestion . tell us and we can all make arrangements to be with you.. if you need to talk Pm me with a call back number .. I can get you people who can help you out , they did help me , thats why I am still here and thats why I went to my new job today instead of giving up on the Human race . if you decide what you are doing keep us all in mind and keep in touch .. praying for you my man Scott

[synoptic]

For whatever it's worth you have all my support. Sometimes I wish I could just break all my ties here, move down to an empty beach in mexico and live there for a while. Have a great trip!!!

[Soap]

Everybody comes to certain crossroads at their lives. We all understand the feeling that you are going through, it is very common and we all deal with it in different ways. Going out into the wild is a centuries old way of rediscovery. Just make sure you do it such that it will be a growth experience. Keep your head, and where ever you find yourself, be silent, and know.

[SquirrelNuts]

Ok,

I just got off the phone with a 1/2 hour comversation with a THR member. This member had been through a very similar experience, and we went through the same feelings. I feel a hundred times better after sharing our experiences. I got some very good advice, especially on dealing with things and being able to separate out the emotional aspect from the logical aspect. I appreciate your willingness to talk with me, you know who you are.

I am really pleased with the posts on this thread myself. I was going to put it on another forum, but decided against it after the responses from there versus the responses from here on things I cross posted.

I am going to start packing things tonight, and I will post a packing list.

I am reconsidering my selling of most of my things, but some things are going to go.

It is often easy to hide behind a username on a forum, so here is my picture. (I am the one with 1/4" of hair).

http://www.qsl.net/kf4oeg/cate&me.jpg
-SquirrelNuts

[Frohickey]

Are you kidding?

Only sell the stuff you think you can replace easily, or absolutely hate to use. And when you sell, and want to save the money, just make normal small deposits into the bank account, instead of hoarding it, and depositing one large chunk. Banks have cute tellers too. :p

As far as the communing with nature and stuff, wouldn't it be better to do it in stages? Say, on April 16 (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxfreedomday.html), Tax Freedom Day for you lucky Georgians (I'm in Kalifornia :fire: ), go on an overnight camping trip. Then, when you feel like it again, after 2 weeks, or when you figured out what you want in your B.O.B., and have had the chance to purchase the item, do it again. This time for 2 days, or even a 3 day jaunt.

Then, after that, and you have again figured out what you want in your B.O.B., do it again, this time for 5 days, or a week. Do it in stages. It would be more enjoyable. Eventually, you will work your way up to weeks or months at a time.

Oh. A must have would be a satellite phone modem, a laptop, and portable solar cell battery chargers. My selfish self wants to know up-to-the-minute entries into what should go into the B.O.B. I'm sure there are other THRers here that would be hanging on your regular must-have-B.O.B. item recommendations. :D

A digital camera would be good too.

[SquirrelNuts]

I have a digital camera. I was considering mailing them to be posted on the net (journals that is).

-SquirrelNuts

[QuickDraw]

Squirrellnuts,
I've been following your thread from the start.
Let me just say in all honesty,a day doesn't go by that I
don't think about doing the same!I mean it.
It sounds like you have the means and the ability.
I say go for it!
What person in their right mind hasn't ever thought of
going "native"?
Out in the wilds,life gets broken down to its most
basic components.It doesn't get any simpler.
Good luck in whatever you decide and know that you have
the thoughts and prayers of people you've never met. :)

QuickDraw

[pax]

SquirrelNuts,

To clarify my earlier post: I suggested talking over your plans with a good counselor. I didn't suggest cancelling your plans and seeing a counselor instead. :p

The reason I suggested it, and still think it may be a good idea, is that it could help give you some perspective and make sure you didn't overlook something important. Of course, your online friends can help you make sure you don't forget important physical things (an axe?) and give you all sorts of advice ranging from the great to the not-so-great. Now you have to sift the ideas and make choices. Someone who knows you face to face can help you do that.

For instance -- if I were you, I'd want to provide at least one way for loved ones to get ahold of me in an emergency (if someone you love has a heart attack while you are gone, is anyone going to be able to tell you about it? If not, will you be able to live with yourself if you could have said good bye and didn't?) I'd probably choose one trustworthy person, give them a method of contact, and impress upon them that a) I don't want anyone else to know that they can contact me -- let alone how to do it, and b) I don't want them to contact me either unless it is a genuine, no doubt about it emergency about which I must do something.

pax

In the depths of winter I finally learned there was in me an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus

[redneck]

Well, I wish you the best of luck, but I do have to say that I think your taking a pretty drastic approach.
I think you have the right idea, but it really seems like your setting yourself up for a very difficult time when you decide to come back to town and live with everyone again.
I completely understand what your getting at though. I'm lucky in the sense that if things aren't going well I can step out the back door and get away from things for awhile. I have a barn full of horses and a long list of chores to take my mind off things.

I'd suggest you look into some alternatives to selling everything and moving out there though. Have you thought about doing anything like this : http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5285&highlight=traditional+hunt

Seems like something like this might let you sort out your problems and get away from it all without taking such drastic measures. Chances are you would meet some pretty good folks that are trying to get away from it all too. If nothing else, I think you would be doing yourself a favor to get in touch with some of the people that organize those hunts and see what they recommend as supplies to take along. If your planning on making a winter of it your going to need things like salt, and a lot of supplies that don't necessarily come to mind for camping.

Another option is to take your resources and go buy yourself a place in the country. Take some time off work, and just lose yourself into working on stuff at your new home. Clear out brush cut enough fire wood to get you through the next 10 winters. And if you really want to sleep under a tree, go for it. That way if you get tired of it, all you have to do is walk to the house.

[dav]

Squirrellnuts,
Best wishes

[Shalako]

My best wishes to you my friend. I have always considered retreating to the woods to live as a hermit as my fallback plan. I have come very close before. It sounds like you have thought this through pretty well and have received some good advice here. Some great advice was to phase into your backwoods life. I’d recommend coming out to California and staying a bit in Humboldt County first. The place is rich with sojourners and wanderlust types. You’d get a lot of support in your endeavor and learn of the intricacies encountered in living solo off the land from the many who have been there and done that. I met quite a few folks who thought it was actually quite normal to live hours from civilization only to come into town on a bi-yearly trip. When I lived up there and was bit by the bug to go rough-it, my biggest concern was for my two dogs. I could never actually come up with a plan to pack in all the dog food they would need. I’ve hiked the Lost Coast solo with just my two dogs and the dog food really weighed a lot. I do think you will learn a lot though, and if you phase into this new life gradually you should be amply prepared so that you don’t wash-out. That is what you should fear most is that nature beat you and you are forced to return to what drove you stir crazy. A couple points though:
*You can starve living on rabbits in the winter. Not enough fat. You can kill deer and smoke the meat into jerky with an improvised drying rack.
*Toilet paper is one of mankind’s best inventions
*Dogs can be the worlds best company
*If you swing by Humboldt County, think up a cool name like “cedar”, “lichen”, or “astari” or something. The hippies will feed you really well and they have great drum circles. Beware of the Patchouli Capitalists though….

Best of luck to you. (PM anytime)

[Soap]

To emphasize Shalako's rabbit point, a diet with lots of rabbit meat can kill you. Eventually you will probably start getting chronic diarrhea. This will dehydrate you, which is extermely dangerous out in the wild. I would suggest getting Bradford Angier's How to Stay Alive in the Woods and then read that your first two days out there.

[SquirrelNuts]

*You can starve living on rabbits in the winter. Not enough fat. You can kill deer and smoke the meat into jerky with an improvised drying rack. I have read an account about a camp of men that all ended up dieing in the wild by simply trying to eat rabbit meat. It apparently also lacks some kind of protein or enzyme that your body needs to stay alive for an extended period of time. They had many natural resources around them that would have allowed them to stay alive. Had they eaten other greens plus the rabbit meat, they would have been fine.

I purchased two sets (two per set) of Thompson Steel Snares today from Brigade Quartermaster. I drove there today and picked them up. They seem very well made and durable. ActionGear.com (http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/level4s.tam?xax=19302&M5COPY%2Ectx=8397&M5%2Ectx=8397&M2%5FDESC%2Ectx=Emergency%20Preparedness%2C%20Survival%20%26%20Lifesaving%20Supplies&level3%2Ectx=results%2Etam&query%2Ectx=snare&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Fresults%2Etam)

I spoke with another THR member today over the phone and discussed more plans. He recommended I take my Glock 17 with a .22LR conversion kit. I think this is a wonderful idea. He also gave me the nickname "Squirrel Adams," and I like it!

I will begin putting together my gear list tonight and pack it all up tomorrow. I will post some pics.

I actually felt something this morning when I got up. I finally started to feel like everything was going to be ok. A very large portion of that feeling is because of you guys. Thank you for everything. I never expected to get this level of support. May the peace of the Lord be with you always.

-SquirrelNuts

[Ian]

Hey Squirrel - best of luck to ya! I hope you find everything you're looking for. I've had a serious itch (though less urgent than what you've explained) to do something like this myself...I'm a bit envious. :o Come back safe and well!

[Carlos Cabeza]

Hey Squirrel, ;) Good luck brother.

[KMKeller]

Best of luck brother. I did something similar when I was much younger, albeit not quite as lengthy. The destination is worth the journey.

[Kilgor]

Good luck and have fun.

[tex_n_cal]

First of all, best wishes to you, and thank you for your post-9/11 service. Like our soldiers, you have gone in Harm's Way to serve others.

I can only offer some random thoughts:

Any support groups of emergency workers, who have been through similar experiences? You might meet some folks who have been through the same or similar events.

There was an article some time back about a chap that decided to make a similar type of escape, in Alaska. He did starve to death, simply because he couldn't get enough calories - the wild game he shot was plentiful, but he still didn't get enough calories to maintain his energy level. This was found in his journal, after his death.

His other error was getting way off the beaten track, without good maps. When he decided to give up his quest, he retraced his hike, but found the way blocked by a flooding river, that had only been a trickle when he crossed it the first time. Beaten and exhausted, he returned to his shelter, and starved to death. It turns out there was an emergency cabin with stores not far from him, as well as a safe river crossing.

There's been times when I felt like doing something similar. I also remember reading My Side of the Mountain when I was a boy. I also recall that character eventually returning to civilization at the book's end.

The most stressful thing that has ever happened to me was a particularly bitter betrayal, by someone I had befriended. At one point, angry and depressed, I packed up and went hunting in the Sierra Nevadas for several days, and didn't see another person. Conditions were tough - I was high up and it was bitterly cold. I had little in the way of firewood, though I did have decent clothing. After a few days, I got pretty well tired of being alone, and found myself wishing for someone to talk to. So much for the self-sufficient Mountain Man fantasy!

Even the real Mountain Men of the fur trader era frequently sought out companionship, marrying Native American women, and looked forward to their gatherings. Being alone on the wilderness was something that came with the job, not something they really preferred.

In today's civilization, with help only a cell phone call away, it is a humbling experience to fall down a hill in the wilderness, collect yourself at the bottom, then realize that had you been hurt and unable to walk, you'd likely have died right there before anyone found you. I cherish the times I've spent in solitude, but they won't cure all your problems, either.

One point that I've heard, which has given me some comfort in times of stress:

"No one controls how you feel, besides yourself"

I encourage you to make your stay in the woods. Prepare carefully, and enjoy the stay. When you start feeling the desire to talk to someone again, don't feel a failure. Enlightenment and a resolution to your problems won't come by sitting on a mountain meditating, it will come by working with others, and moving on with your life.

A .22 is fine, since you can take small game readily with it. One of the Browning .22's with takedown feature might make a better choice than the AR7, though. Depending on where you go, however, a 9mm might make a better choice, since ammo is easy to get in lots of places. 9mm is better for two and four legged predators, short of bears, of course. I've shot rabbits with 9mm ball, and it really doesn't ruin much meat.

Good Luck and God bless you.

[M2HMGHB]

Luck on your journey Squirrel.

[BowStreetRunner]

....good luck man, i said a prayer for ya
make sure you know what you can and cant eat....and some things you CAN eat can stop your body from processing everything else you eat
I hope you figure everything out.....you have to do the right thing for you, even if others say it is crazy!
please send THR some updates if you can
BSR

[MeekandMild]

Treatment for depression with therapy would be much better than taking any medication. That is entirely untrue. Any serious depression should be treated with both medication and therapy (plus getting a good physical exam to rule out physical causes like thyroid disease plus diet, exercise, work or worklike activity, recreation and peer/family involvement).

The medications we have available have many fewer side effects than the ones available just a few years ago. The newer antidepressants are so much safer they are often given by the same family doctors who can check for other serious problems like thyroid imbalance.

In the case of PTSD judicious use of medication may limit the brain damage caused by the fear and apprehension centers being constatnly turned on and the body flooding itself with fear hormones like epinephrine and cortisone. A person needs to be treated early rather than waiting utnil they are "burned out".

You wouldn't take your rifle to be sighted in by a shrink so don't expect to be properly shrunk by gunnies no matter how well intentioned. :scrutiny:

My 2 cents worth. I'm not a gunsmith nor do I play one on TV.

[Horsesense]

Have you considered traveling by canoe? You could get away and pack a lot of gear.

I'm sure you have thought of this (I haven't read all the posts) take a BIBLE with you. If more people would get alone with God, most of these phony balogna psychiatrists would go bankrupt.

Wish I had done something like what you are planing, before I got a family.

My Side of the Mountain is a good book.

I'm thinking that you need at least a dozen snares and misquote netting, the sketers/fly's can drive you crazy.
Also so
me medication fore diarrhea, allergy, sore mussels. Get a complete physical and tell the dock that you are going to be living in third world conditions, you may need a tetanus shot possibly get some antibiotics.

Lord bless and have fun.

[rage]

SN, I am concerned about you. If your wish to live in the woods and then get on with your life is a genuine turn your life needs to take, at your young age...go for it. :)

However your posts are symptomatic of depression and possible suicidal behaviors. Please seek Psychiatric help ASAP.

There seem to be a lot of concerned folks here at THR on this thread. Since you've brought your plight to this public forum, please promise that before you do anything to harm yourself, or start having thoughts of harming yourself...you will contact us.


Concerned,
rage

[ahadams]

SN:

1. if you've got a chance in :cuss: with the chick in the pic, don't :cuss: it up now!


2. The thing with ptsd is you've got to work through it - either by yourself of with others. you can't just ignore it or it will eat you alive. if you want a specific example that will make whatever you saw or experienced sound like Sunday School, PM me.

3. Running away does nothing except make the pain last longer - and if you read some of the history of the post civil war era you'll find both in the gun fighters and mountain men, there were people who proved that true with their blood.

Arlin H. Adams

[ahadams]

intended to post, but it got lost in my computer...and I really mean that about the chick in the picture!

Hi Guy,

First off, don't know who the chick was who was in the picture with you, but if you have any kind of chance with her at all, running off into the woods ain't worth it - and you can take that to the bank!

One of the interesting things about getting out of the army in '79 was that I got to meet a bunch of ptsd types who sounded a whole lot like your first post in this thread...including one who'd lost a significant portion of his intestinal tract to 4 rounds of VC/PRC/sov .51 cal that impacted his chickenplate while he was trying to hose down the perimeter of the hot LZ he'd just left. Which is to say he didn't experience nothing you didn't but in spades, okay?

All of them, and I mean ALL of them tried the running off into the woods and hiding routine, and *news flash* it DIDN'T WORK! really! and stop thinking about the muzzle of the barrel being next to your temple! and I mean that! that isn't really what you want either - and you know it!

Whatcha gotta do is deal with it, a little bit at a time - not all at once and sure as (testing the censor software here) **** not out in public but you gotta deal with the fact that you couldn't save them and you done did the best you could and that's where it stands and they'd be (testing again) pissed as hell if they thought you were in the situation you're in just because of them and that's the way it is.

and if you want to hear about something that'll maybe make your experiences take on a bit more perspective PM me here on THR.

[Jmurman]

Instead, go for a complete change of scenery - Head up to Alaska, something like that, and find a job (that'll allow you to live comfortably) that's outdoors where you can have minimal interaction with people until you get your head back together.

Alaska would be a good place to get perspective. I was stationed there for 3 years...you'll not regret it.

[Ryder]

Well SquirrelNuts,

I've got a feel for what you're trying to achieve. It's about challenging yourself. Proving your worth to yourself. You will learn your abilities and limitations without having to wonder about them any longer. It's a good thing to be self sufficient and gain confidence.

I'm amazed so many here envision this as an attempt to end your life. That's just wayyyy out there. I think some of these people have never stepped into the woods. Is nature really that alien to them? Sure you can hit the end of your rope out there, but rest assured you will recognize it. Just have a plan to extricate yourself and bend before you break.

After your first week the idea of sitting in a chair is going to seem repugnant and the confusion of society which is causing your current problems won't even cross your mind due to the preoccupation of survival. I doubt you will be bored or lonely for quite some time. Time will fly, the days will become unbelievably short, you will be busy. You will toughen up really fast and be amazed when you think back on how soft you really were.

This isn't going to take as long to achieve as you might think though. Eventually you will begin to wonder what you are missing out on back in society. You have a lot more resources than I ever had when I was roughing it. I'd want something to come back to so I'd leave my things with a family member and phone home once in a while.

My preference for a gun is a scoped 22mag rifle, need little ammo with that. Never had a use for a pistol, more use for a hatchet or large knife. Sounds like you might need a mule to haul all your stuff? :D Hope you've researched well. Take along a book or two of wild edible plants that grow in your region. Don't forget your game and fishing licenses.

If it was me I'd use that area in Canada you mentioned. Tooo many venomous critters and parasites in the South for my liking. I personally think snow is a great advantage in the pursuit of game. The storms seem more tame up there and you wouldn't have the potential of people imposing into your situation. I'd hate to get locked up just for trying to be free.

Enjoy your self discovery, it's definitely something of value worth obtaining and something you can look back on with pride when you get older. :)

[sonny]

First of all all this killing of rabbits on easter sunday is shamefull:D
Squirrel Nut's.............you said.
I did disaster relief work for the American Red Cross starting on 9/11/2001 until 9/14/2001 (you figure it out).
Unless I missed something....and I may have ...you have not disscused how and where you where involved on 9/11
I ask because you are not alone......there are plenty of people who went through what you went through on that day including myself....believe me.... I was on that pile within minutes and I saw things I will never forget!
I have been fortunate enough to have plenty of people to talk to about it....... If it is at all possible and not to painfull please explain your 9/11 experience......You may find strength and pride in discussing it.
By the way .....if you want to live in a REAL wilderness come on up to NYC:D .......75 grand will last you a few months in rent.:D
Seriously....As far as I'm concerned there are no rules to life as long as you don't hurt other people while pursuing your ideas.
GO FOR IT!.........FREAK OUT!..........LIVE LIFE!....I did and I will again as soon as I get these kids out of my house!
You have nothing to be ashamed of and no explaining to do....it's your life and if you want to go grizzly adams ....go ahead.
But make sure you are HAPPY....if not regroup and keep on fighting your demons.
I like a quote by ex heavyweight champ Floyd Patterson.......
When a reporter asked him if he was aware that he had been knocked down more times that any heavyweight champ in history .
Floyd said "yea... but I also got up more times than any heavyweight champ in history!"
:what:

[Keith]

Squirrel,

I for one am not going to encourage you to do this.

Going off alone is not going to help you escape your demons, in fact the solitude will just magnify them. There is no life-affirming experience in this, just endless time to dwell on the negative.

A change of scenery could be a good thing if it invoves some sort of rewarding goal or positive experience, but this doesn't have any of that.

In any case, I wish you luck.

Keith

[Hand_Rifle_Guy]

Uh... :(

I find myself at a loss for words. This from the guy who thinks out loud always.

Your life is your own. I will not presume to offer you direction in conflict with your choice of actions. Done the depression thing myself, and I find decisiveness reassuring.

So I only offer this. Isolating yourself in the context of being a self-described social person entails severe risks. Adapting oneself to lonelyness can require heavy-handed discipline.

I guess my point is try not to become someone who cannot re-connect with others handily as a consequence of surviving your isolation. Learning to live completely disconnected from all others can be a difficult state of mind to get back from when you decide your odyssee is complete. What you are undertaking is something I find worrying. Emotion can drive thinking into deep, tangled, circular ruts, and I sense a vast dissonance lurking in your head. I think resolving that will be a harrowing ride. Persistance of emotion, however powerful, is not definitive. You are.

I would ask that you maintain a degree of communication with us during that time, that you do not inadvertently learn to NOT need people. Tools made for survival are often slow to be discarded.

Worrying to me, but not that worrying. Your posts here show that you're thinking straight enough to be aware of your own rational focus. Don't forget we are all your friends, and therefore have need of you.

I wish you luck and health, and a safe return.

Godspeed, my friend.

[Shweboner]

I think this is an excellent idea. Sometimes there are things that a therapist or drugs cannot do. If you want something done right, do it yourself. I wish you luck man.

I agree with taking your dogs, for one pets are theraputic, and two your dogs will miss you.
Write, Write, Write... this is something that will turn out to be the turning point in your life and you will most certainly want to look back on it years later.

~Brian

[Didorian]

As far as firearms, to limit the number of things to carry, a *Crossfire would be a good idea. Combination Pump 12gage, and 223 rifle.
* Then an AR7 22lr collapsed and kept in your pack, and a 357mag, or a 45 calibur handgun.
*Take a good hatchet, or better yet, a decent medium sized axe. One of the Gerber Camp, or Sport axes would fit that bill.
* A good fixed blade knife. think about blade design, how would you be useing it, would a skinner work best for your purposes, or an average "campers" blade?
* A good pocket knife with a single handed opening blade. You never know when you're gonna need the knife open and have only one hand to do it with. with a little practicde many knives can be opened one handed. Something by Gerber, or Buck should work like a charm.
*And a swiss army knife, or another "Tool" type knife, being Gerber, Leatherman, or Scharade.
*Some kind of water filtration system that is portable.
**SEVERAL ways to start a fire. At least two lighters, a bunch of matches, and a good flint.
*A good poncho helps too, they can also be used for shelter, and to help in collecting rain water.

Most of this stuff I'm sure you already know... I've been wanting to get into backpacking for some time but never have the time or money. Don't have the nessary experience to go out for any long distance alone either. And no one to go with me... :(
Oh well..... I can understand how getting away helps you out... I use to go out for long walks in the woods near my parent's house when I was a little younger and the tedium of life was getting to me..
Now to get out of the rut that I'm in, I'm planning on trying out for the Airforce...
Best of luck you you man... be safe, and have some real fun..
I hope it all works out for you.


Dex.

[Stay Low]

I appreciate your situation and secretly envy the great adventure before you both personally, mentally and spiritually. But......it came to me that anyone with the resolve to get square in their life all the things that would allow then to effectively drop out and survive the wilderness could also get tough enough and summon the resolve to find help for what ails 'em and get right. Dig in, man, it's a long hard ride no matter what rod ya choose. Best wishes no matter what you decide.

[John G]

Squirrel,

Good luck, but consider your exit plan. If (God forbid), you break a toe, or get a stomach bug, you'll need to seek medical care quickly. Since you're set on doing this, please plan for your health.

Let us know how you make out, and again, good luck! :)

[jade]

SquirrelNuts said:
Oh, I like the idea of buying land and building a cabin on it to have something to show for it. I already have a log cabin in Canada though.

if you would like to build something, but don't want to build another log cabin, you might consider building a straw bale house. they are warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

i found this link which has many pictures throughout the process.
http://www.ahouseofstraw.com/

if you do a search on google, you will find many pages. there are also many books on the subject.

whatever you decide to do, i wish you luck and peace. :)

jade

[Didorian]

That made me remember this thing I saw on HG/TV some time ago... this guy was teaching these people how to make adobe houses out of just sandbags (With sand in them of course) And barbed wire. Both of witch you should beable to either order, or find in a decent farming supply store.
I'd been planning on building one myself but haven't gotten around to it yet... :(

Also, If you'd like to just find some land and start completely new..then there's a book you might, REALLY, want to check out...
It's called "BACK TO BASICS, How to Learn and Enjoy Traditional American Skills". It's a Reader's digest book...
It goes over EVERYTHING envolved with finding and chooseing your land, what kind of materials would work best to buikd with, how to build a fard, and all KINDS of stuff...
It might REALLY help.

Dex.

[Rebel Gunman HK]

Can I come??? Sometimes I wish... well good luck. I think its a good idea. Might wanna bring something that packs a little more punch than a .22. I worry more about two legged creatures way out in the sticks more than anything.