Regulations on keeping and bearing arms. What's your .02 cents?


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Medusa
January 12, 2006, 02:21 PM
Local law demands that guns are to keep unloaded at home (and preferably in safe with ammo in separate locked box), and outside pipe must be empty and safety on (autos). Yeah, I try to be good law-abiding citizen, but what are your comment on that. Is the empty pipe a serious hazard outside and what "moves" you'd reccommend. Or should I bend it a little?

My thought is that having to work the slide might give away precious seconds in fierce encounter and having to load the gun at first in HD gives away the whole point of having a gun. :cuss:

Happily CZ75B cannot be safed unless the hammer is cocked thus having to make one move less. And I keep the gun at home handy, currently, loaded and empty-chamber.

Reimo

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TexasRifleman
January 12, 2006, 02:24 PM
When in places that require me to keep it "unloaded" I keep the slide locked back and a mag handy. That's about as fast as I've figured out how to get it done.

When I travel in California I have to keep the handgun "unloaded and locked up". So, it sits in a case with a combination lock, one turn away from open, slide locked back, and loaded mag handy.

And you are right, it does take precious time to manipulate all that, but if you're interested in keeping inside the law (and I make no judgment on those that decide to ignore such a thing) there's not much else to be done.

TallPine
January 12, 2006, 02:45 PM
Well, it ain't like that around here :D

Rule #1 is observed around my house ;)
(except for some of the hunting rifles)

progunner1957
January 12, 2006, 02:46 PM
Such laws are asinine and completely worthless, as are the gun hating bigots who make them. They do nothing more than put the lawful citizen at a disadvantage and give aid to criminal thugs when the doo-doo hits the fan and your life is on the line. A gun that is "properly" locked up is as good as no gun at all and may very well get you killed.

I live in Indiana and thankfully we have no such asinine laws here. If we did, I would break them on a daily basis. In my home and in my car, I refuse to bow to the whim of a pack of beady-eyed gun hating bigots who cannot take my gun so they pass laws to make it useless instead. To those who pass such "laws," GFY.:D

ReadyontheRight
January 12, 2006, 02:51 PM
My biggest concern about such laws is -- how does the government enforce such laws?

In trying to be a responsible gun owner, do you allow the police to periodically check your guns?

DO you register yourself as a gun owner and sign a statement saying that you will follow their arbitrary rules?

When unloaded is not enough, do trigger locks become the law?

When some kid does what kids do and figures out a trigger lock or a safe combination, is everyone then required to keep their guns stored at the shooting club?

Does the cost of joining a shooting club then go beyond the reach of the rabble?

Such restrictions turn a RIGHT into a PRIVILEDGE that will slowly be taken away.

As far as the reality of meeting your laws...only you can know what condition you need to keep yourself safe. Are you allowed to load the gun if you get a threatening phone call or if bad guys are banging down your door?

For me, I personally prefer to keep the chamber empty if it is not on my person. Many here would disagree, but that's my SOP with children around.

Baba Louie
January 12, 2006, 03:07 PM
My Dad always kept his 1911 empty with the magazine out placed under the mattress, and a charged magazine in his sock drawer; meaning he had to retrieve the gun, open a drawer, etc. That was back when my sisters and I were younger. But we always had a dog or two to give him some form of notice that something was amiss, so he wasn't worried about surprises at home. Then again this was back in the 50's & 60's and I know that we only locked the doors when we went out of town or no one was at home. Hot burglaries or Home Invasions were very rare in those days.

In a life or death scenario, what with home invasions becoming more of a daily thing here in the US, I'd rather be ready right now, than have to retrieve and then use both hands to get ready. Thank goodness our laws are not ALL so draconian (yet).

Got a dog? Motion sensing devices for security lighting? All you need is to buy a little time.

Camp David
January 12, 2006, 03:09 PM
Yeah, I try to be good law-abiding citizen, but what are your comment on that. Reimo

Reimo... this handgun law would only make sense (and hardly that) if it were applied to other tools around the house...
=>Is your chainsaw empied of gas and oil when in non-use, thus unloaded?
=>Is your automobile empied of gas and oil when in non-use, thus unloaded?
I tend to disagree with a local law which, on its face, is discriminately applied to handguns yet ignores other tools which could, potentially, be just as dangerous. I also tend to think on handgun much as I think on a chainsaw or automobile: equally lethal if not treated with respect. But for the "local law" to be proscribing handling requirments on one while ignoring the other seems, on its face, discriminatory.

I would envision that most responsible sportsmen, such as myself and most others, keep sporting firearms that are not in use away and in proper order. However, firearms destined for use as home defense, maintained as your cited "local law" dictates; i.e., "...unloaded at home (and preferably in safe with ammo in separate locked box)..." might place their employment in emergency situation beyond their use. Count down in seconds how long it would take in seconds to find key for ammunition box, unload, load handgun ammunition, then prepare for use? Further, some municipalities proscribe gun locks for firearms, thus adding another obstacle to employment of home defense firearm.

I believe we all try to be law-abiding citizen and be careful and consciencious of firearm safety, both afield and at home.

But the question needs to be voiced: how many criminals or crooks, bad men or rapists, or any others that might enter your home unwelcome, will wait patiently while you properly arm yourself?

Am I wrong to ask?

Medusa
January 12, 2006, 03:11 PM
Everybody who wants a gun must be accounted in police, i had to fill a form (visit a shrink), make an exam, then i was checked for 2 months and then i got The Permit to buy one (1) gun. And then the gun was to be registered in PD and a tax paid (all that cost me 300 bucks plus gun). You know, law regulates that I can have only 100 rounds of pistol ammo at home and if I'm buying ammo the amount must not exceed 100 rounds. trigger locks are pointless, just have a tool good enough and the lock is done for. If one has 2 guns, safe must be had, and if having more than 8 guns a separate locked room must be had.

To be honest, usually noone checks that the guns are kept the way law dictates but having to break law is a bad deal and only gives more arguments to anti-gunners. In my town there's only 2 firing ranges, PD and one private, which is non-profitable and mostly closed. So this is a hard point also :(

Reimo

EDITED after the reply from Camp David: in here (EE) we have only couple of incidents with legal guns, and hundreds of car-related deaths per year. So yes, which one is potentially more dangerous, that's the big question.

Other piece of equipment that is handy @home is the stick the kid's swing mounts to in the doorframe, which is a yard (90 cm or so) long, 3 mm high-quality (whole thing cut and attachments laser-cutted by myself) steel pipe and has a taped part to be used as a handle. Ment to be used as a club or throwing someone with it. Nasty.

spelling edited

Vern Humphrey
January 12, 2006, 03:13 PM
The Army contracts with universities to conduct classes on military posts. At Fort Benning, they hold these classes after hours in the classrooms of Building 4 (the main headquarters and academic building.)

I was Officer of the Day, and I had classes that evening. I told the SDNCO and the FOD I would be around the corner in class. I walked into the classroom wearing full uniform, OD brassard and my .45. The instructor said, "It that gun unloaded?"

"What kind of a fool would carry an unloaded gun?":p

Cosmoline
January 12, 2006, 03:18 PM
Gun control is one thing. The state will always have a legitimate interest in regulating the USE of firearms in public. Thus it's not legal to cap off rounds in the middle of traffic. I don't have any problem with that. But regulating how firearms are stored AT HOME is another matter entirely. These laws invade the core private space on the slimest of pretenses. These sort of laws are even controversial among more liberal Constitutional scholars in the US, including Lawrence Tribe. Of course in the EU there are no limits on the power of the state.

progunner1957
January 12, 2006, 03:18 PM
When unloaded is not enough, do trigger locks become the law?


Why stop there? Why not pass a law that requires all guns be stored in the following manner:

1. Bore lock.
2. Trigger lock.
3. Locked in a non-penetratable strong box.
4. Minimum of six lockable steel bands around the box.
5. Strong box stored in a gun safe.
6. Each key for each lock (above) stored in a seperate locking strong box.
7. Ammunition stored in a seperate locked strong box with a minimum of
six lockable steel bands around the box.
8. Magazines/speedloaders stored in a seperate locked strong box with a
minimum of six lockable steel bands around the box.
9. Keys for ammunition & magazines/speedloaders stored in seperate locked
strong boxes with a minimum of six lockable steel bands around box.
10. Keys for all lockable steel bands on strong boxes stored at Police station.

Smurfslayer
January 12, 2006, 03:24 PM
What's your .02 cents? Local law demands that guns are to keep unloaded at home

My $0.02 is that it is long past time for our European brothers to throw off the shackles of their oppressive regimes, and burn their oppressors at the stake in one huge governmental pyre.

HTH

Medusa
January 12, 2006, 03:30 PM
Progunner, now that would do the trick. And then you're sued if the whole crate-thing falls on the BG and kills him because of keeping heavy and dangerous things at home.

Reimo

azredhawk44
January 12, 2006, 03:32 PM
trigger locks are pointless, just have a tool good enough and the lock is done for.

I was at the range one day and a fellow had an auto in his rangebag with a trigger lock still on it.

He forgot his key to unlock it.:what:

I took out my handy-dandy allen wrench set and proceeded to turn the key cylinder with this! Had the lock off in about 3 minutes. No, I've never studied locksmithing.

I'm sure a kid could figure that out, too.:rolleyes: Trigger locks are absolutely worthless. Spend 5 minutes and try to defeat it and you will do so if you have the inventiveness of a 10 year old child.

If you rely on trigger locks, please do this. If you are otherwise negligent with firearms around children and rely on a trigger lock, your gun is as good as unlocked already. The only remedy IMHO is education as to what a gun really does. By means of a pumpkin, watermelon, water jug, or something truly dynamic.

azredhawk44
January 12, 2006, 03:34 PM
Why stop there? Why not pass a law that requires all guns be stored in the following manner:

1. Bore lock.
2. Trigger lock.
3. Locked in a non-penetratable strong box.
4. Minimum of six lockable steel bands around the box.
5. Strong box stored in a gun safe.
6. Each key for each lock (above) stored in a seperate locking strong box.
7. Ammunition stored in a seperate locked strong box with a minimum of
six lockable steel bands around the box.
8. Magazines/speedloaders stored in a seperate locked strong box with a
minimum of six lockable steel bands around the box.
9. Keys for ammunition & magazines/speedloaders stored in seperate locked
strong boxes with a minimum of six lockable steel bands around box.
10. Keys for all lockable steel bands on strong boxes stored at Police station.


Why bother with going to the police station when you can just fire up the torch and cut all the locks off?:neener:

McCall911
January 12, 2006, 03:43 PM
Gosh, I'm a little shy about expressing such an outdated point-of-view, but here goes....

:o

My opinion is that how you store/keep your weapons are your responsibility (and yours alone) and the government should have no say in how you accomplish this end.

Now, isn't that silly?

:rolleyes:

Lupinus
January 12, 2006, 03:45 PM
Glad thats not the case here or the surprise I keep under the bed for middle of the night guests could sure get me in trouble ;)

WillBrayJr
January 12, 2006, 04:07 PM
$%@& them, As long as I'm not hurting anyone it's no one's business what I do;)

TallPine
January 12, 2006, 04:30 PM
Further, some municipalities proscribe gun locks for firearms
Actually, that's something I could agree with ... :p

Ban Gun Locks now! :D

benEzra
January 12, 2006, 04:40 PM
Local law demands that guns are to keep unloaded at home (and preferably in safe with ammo in separate locked box), and outside pipe must be empty and safety on (autos). Yeah, I try to be good law-abiding citizen, but what are your comment on that. Is the empty pipe a serious hazard outside and what "moves" you'd reccommend. Or should I bend it a little?

My thought is that having to work the slide might give away precious seconds in fierce encounter and having to load the gun at first in HD gives away the whole point of having a gun.
Not just time, but the fact that loading the gun and chambering a round requires TWO hands.

Here (North Carolina), I can store my guns any way I see fit, as long as I do not leave them within access of a minor (my kids or 6 and 4). One or both of our 9mm's are always loaded (constantly loading and unloading them would cause bullet setback problems), and when we're home there's usually a magazine in one of the carbines in the safe, but none are accessible to unauthorized users.

Joey2
January 12, 2006, 07:49 PM
In my home, on my property, I keep my home defense weapons loaded. I don't give a damn what the law says.

I have no small children, when we did, my weapons were hidden from them and still loaded.

They do have home invasions over here, what will an empty weapon do?

Standing Wolf
January 12, 2006, 09:58 PM
All my .22 caliber pistols are unloaded and locked in the safe, except those that are in bank boxes, of course.

The rest are loaded—always. Some are locked up, but there's at least one gun in every room of the house, including the laundry room.

Anybody who doesn't like it doesn't have to try a home invasion.

Firethorn
January 12, 2006, 11:14 PM
Happily CZ75B cannot be safed unless the hammer is cocked thus having to make one move less. And I keep the gun at home handy, currently, loaded and empty-chamber.

My CZ75BD doesn't even have a manual safety. :evil:

In North Dakota you're good to go in any state you want. I tend to carry hammer down, round in pipe. I'm very careful about trigger discipline. Just like a glock, it's designed to go bang when the trigger is pulled.

Storage wise I think that you can get into some trouble if kids get ahold of it and cause trouble.

I'm curious, what country are you in? I'm not aware of any US states having an ammo restriction. Matter of fact, I'm not that unusual having better than 5k+ rounds in my possession. 1k 9mm, 1k .40S&W, 1k .45, 1k .357+.38, ~500 .22LR, 1k .223, 1.5k 30-06, 1.5k 7.62x39, etc...

ball3006
January 13, 2006, 12:19 PM
have the chamber empty and the slide open, the mag is loaded. If someone breaks in one, or both, of us will rack the slide. If the perp is smart, they will run, if not, they will be shot............case in point, I loaned my dad one of my pistols for a nightstand gun, as he is in his 80s, and lives alone. When I visited he told me to be careful, the pistol is under the mattress. I pulled it out and asked where is the magazine? He replied it is down in his office locked in a cabinet with the ammo. I asked what would you do if someone broke in. He replied, call 911..........duh.........he moved and forgot about the pistol and now one of the moving guys has it..........chris3

Herself
January 13, 2006, 01:19 PM
Medusa, it might be of some use to you to consult with a gun-friendly lawyer in your country.

I would never encourage anyone to break the law. Still, sometimes there are things one might do that don't break the law but come very near to breaking it. While your gun must be stored unloaded, you may find that you are permitted to work on it at home.

Working on a gun could easily include checking that the magazine is allowing rounds to feed properly when cycled by hand. It's surprising how many guns have just a little problem with that....

That's an excuse and it might be one that would work, or it might be one that would result in no end of trouble. So talking to a lawyer is a good idea.

Purely as a hypothetical example, while it is illegal in your country to have your gun loaded in your own home, a person who was committed to being very consistent about always keeping the gun in their possession in the home and never leaving the house without putting it in a legal condition for storage or transportation is likely to have only a small chance of ever being caught. Some chance does exist, however, and no one but you can decide for you if the risk is worth the possible benefit.

--Herself

Medusa
January 13, 2006, 04:02 PM
Hi Herself,
As I did note, I try to be lawful citizen and breaking the law is a crappy deal. Anyway the working idea seems reasonable.

Oh, since I have the licence only I can handle the gun, if someone breaks in and my wife uses it, then she's the villain :banghead: :cuss: :barf:

People are so damn afraid of guns, soviet regime made it so.

Reimo

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