Young men with bats kill homeless man...


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ceetee
January 12, 2006, 11:28 PM
Two of these incidents happened in fairly decent sections of Fort Lauderdale.


Young men with bats kill homeless man, injure 2 others in downtown, beachside Lauderdale (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-112homelessbeating,0,3435973.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines)

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rero360
January 13, 2006, 01:22 AM
fancy a bit of the ultra violence?

Manedwolf
January 13, 2006, 01:30 AM
fancy a bit of the ultra violence?

That was actually one of the last attempts at violent crime in NH, too...with a baseball bat. *** is with baseball bats?

Question, too, do baseball bats officially count as a deadly weapon, if a gang of suspicious sorts started to walk towards you with a couple of them? What's the cutoff point for you to be able to legally respond with at least a CCW draw of weapon, if you can't safely retreat? How they wield them?

Sad thing about the Clockwork Orange ref, though, is that I know people in the UK who say that that sort of thing is very common, now. People can't defend themselves, and there's groups of trash punks in a lot of the ex-industrial cities who just get stinking drunk and go out and beat the crap out of random people on the street, just because they can.

HighVelocity
January 13, 2006, 01:35 AM
Ever see "A Clockwork Orange"? :scrutiny:

4D5
January 13, 2006, 01:44 AM
Recently in Reno an elderly man was at the car wash and was about to get in his car when a gang-banger agressively approached him in an attempt to rob him while being flanked on the sides by two of his hoodlum accomplices. The elderly gent used his pistol to repel the thugs, shooting the one with the bat. The other two thugs then dragged the attacker to a waiting car. Cops came got info and aprehended the thugs at the hospital. The elder gent went on his way. Sure is nice to live in the United States "Nevada" where one can defend one's self, unlike places like the PSRK.

epijunkie67
January 13, 2006, 01:45 AM
Question, too, do baseball bats officially count as a deadly weapon, if a gang of suspicious sorts started to walk towards you with a couple of them? What's the cutoff point for you to be able to legally respond with at least a CCW draw of weapon, if you can't safely retreat? How they wield them?

I'm no lawyer but my understanding has always been that you can use your weapon any time you feel a reasonable fear of death or serious injury. If I'm 5'1" and 140lb and some 6'5" 270lb guy tells me he's going to kill me with his bare hands, and I can't escape the situation, I think that could certainly qualify. If someone is coming at you with a bat and you feel threatened then I say you should defend yourself. Bats aren't guns but they can kill just the same. Hell, it's one of our (gun owners) arguments for not banning guns. That people would just switch to other methods of killing like bats or knives.

So yeah, dude with a weapon and apparent hostile intent? I'm taking defensive action with my own weapon. And he can learn to never bring a bat to a gun fight.

odysseus
January 13, 2006, 01:55 AM
BTW, these evil SOBs deserve the same treatment. I very much hope they are caught and dealt with swiftly.

I wonder too, with the prevelance of such things these days, if there also wasn't someone who was filming it. Seems to be more of a thing with some of these crimes these days.

Standing Wolf
January 13, 2006, 04:31 AM
The article didn't explain exactly how it's all Bush's fault, but I know it is.

slzy
January 13, 2006, 04:38 AM
as orwell was describing much in his own time,burgess does also.but now it is more so.

TarpleyG
January 13, 2006, 09:44 AM
The article didn't explain exactly how it's all Bush's fault, but I know it is.
Well, at least Jeb's fault anyway. I'm sure it will be discussed.

Greg

beaucoup ammo
January 13, 2006, 10:35 AM
It's a shame a CCW wasn't passing by, but at that hour what are the odds? I have a strong personal dislike of bullies.. in all their manifestations..and will deal with that type swiftly if I'm ever attacked again. It's why I took the class and have my Texas CHL.

"Get me once..shame on you..get me twice, shame on me." That will never happen...I'll go down blastin'!

Take Care

CentralTexas
January 13, 2006, 10:55 AM
The article didn't explain exactly how it's all Bush's fault, but I know it is.


Bush catering to wealthy & business = homeless

Warmongering, legal guns and Conservatism = violent white youth

Sheesh, must I explain everything? ;)
CT

starfuryzeta
January 13, 2006, 11:06 AM
Question, too, do baseball bats officially count as a deadly weapon, if a gang of suspicious sorts started to walk towards you with a couple of them? What's the cutoff point for you to be able to legally respond with at least a CCW draw of weapon, if you can't safely retreat? How they wield them?

I'd think so, especially in Florida.

From http://www.leg.state.fl.us

766.301 - However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

776.08 - Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

784.011 Assault.--
(1) An "assault" is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

784.021 Aggravated assault.--
(1) An "aggravated assault" is an assault:
(a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
(b) With an intent to commit a felony.

Missashot
January 13, 2006, 11:39 AM
Just a shame that these punks don't know that you can use a baseball bat to actually PLAY BASEBALL with.:eek:
Just glad that where I live we generally don't have a lot of that type mess. going on. I'm too grouchy (and still on crutches) to fool with a bat, I'd just have to tell them that it was a shame that they brought a bat to a gun fight.:neener:

ball3006
January 13, 2006, 11:54 AM
sweater was tailored in A Clockwork Orange..........I guess if the punks used pickax handles, it would probably be called union violence, and the investigation would be dropped.......If I came under this situation, it would be one of those statements "you don't bring a baseball bat to a gunfight"......chris3

ceetee
January 13, 2006, 11:59 AM
As of right now, they haven't caught these punks. When I discussed this incident with my wife, and I told her where these beatings took place, she said "Rich kids, out for some kicks."

I agree. Just another reason for CCW.

BTW, as much as I dislike Jeb's (and his older brother's) way of doing business, I'm puzzled... Just how did they get into this topic again?

Lennyjoe
January 13, 2006, 01:13 PM
I'm puzzled... Just how did they get into this topic again
Because there has been a trend of "It's Bushs fault" lately from the liberals here at THR. :neener:

Biker
January 13, 2006, 01:23 PM
Because there has been a trend of "It's Bushs fault" lately from the liberals here at THR. :neener:
Well, ya don't have to be a Lib to be an ex-fan of Jorge Bush.
:evil:
Biker

beaucoup ammo
January 13, 2006, 01:29 PM
Just a tax paying, middle class American!

Take Care

engineer151515
January 13, 2006, 01:34 PM
Not to be confused with professional legal or self protection advise .....





Question, too, do baseball bats officially count as a deadly weapon, if a gang of suspicious sorts started to walk towards you with a couple of them?



In my book - an unqualified yes.

beaucoup ammo
January 13, 2006, 01:46 PM
Weapon:
"A thing designed or used as a means of inflicting bodily harm, such as a gun or bomb or stick, or a horn or claw."

Bat trumps stick...IMO

Take Care

Medusa
January 13, 2006, 04:13 PM
Here also we have had couple of incidents, more frequently lately, when some bored 15yo kids beat someone for fun. Couple of days ago one fellow went to his friend, slightly drunk, and was beaten up, clothes ripped and left on the river's ice under some bridge (and it is below zero centigrade, approx 20 F), so luckily he was found and warmed up. Some other fellow was beaten to death, month ago one elderly lady (80yo or so) was roughed up. And very digusting, years ago another elderly lady's home was broken into, about 50 bucks or so stolen, lady raped, sliced and beaten to death. Happily most of the F-ing kids were caught and convicted.

Some time ago some kids drove a car, drunk as usual, and as they wanted to make a prank closely drove by a bicycler, that was hit and killed, kids were too afraid and dragged the body for couple of miles (body over hood and partially below car) and the ditched the body to a trench. No serious conviction was made. Later some kids, again drunk, drove car and shot out of the car window, at night for fun, and hit a lady who was waiting a late bus, killing her. Guys got off clean due contacts in higher places.

Goddamnit, it makes me puke and ashamed to live here.
Reimo

Tequila_Sauer
January 13, 2006, 04:32 PM
I'm around that area all the time. I generally walk by it on the way to the Las Olas area (there are a lot of great nightclubs around there). That area always smells of homeless people.

It's sad when things like this happen. What prompts a person to such senseless violence?

KriegHund
January 13, 2006, 04:41 PM
A) Thats really messed up. You shouldnt go aorund hitting people with bats, even if they rae homeless. I bet they ownt like it so much when one of the homeless men pulls out a weapon of his own...

B) We must ban bats NOW they are weapons of terror and mass murdering, capabale of semi-automatic beat-downs. :neener:

ceetee
January 13, 2006, 08:57 PM
A) Thats really messed up. You shouldnt go aorund hitting people with bats, even if they rae homeless. I bet they ownt like it so much when one of the homeless men pulls out a weapon of his own...

B) We must ban bats NOW they are weapons of terror and mass murdering, capabale of semi-automatic beat-downs. :neener:

All Major League teams should have to play with wiffle balls and bats, too.









c.

XLMiguel
January 13, 2006, 10:20 PM
A few years back it was some rich kids from Long Is. going into the Bowery and hosing bums with Zippo lighter fluid and ighting them up. A couple died before the vermin were caught. IIRC, since all were minors, not enough 'consequences' happened to them:barf:

The little busturds need a big dose of their own medicine followed by an adequate time in a [not too comfortable] place conducive to introspection so's that they might contemplate the error of their ways while they heal, that followed by some serious community service in someplce like a shelter or veteran's home.

4v50 Gary
January 13, 2006, 10:26 PM
Bush catering to wealthy & business = homeless

Warmongering, legal guns and Conservatism = violent white youth

Sheesh, must I explain everything? ;)
CT

Dang See-Tee (CT), I'm impressed. Are you in the media?;)

Back on topic, I've no love for the homeless, but to take a bat to them because of their indigent nature is outrageous and reprehensible. While there is nothing to love about some of these homeless people, there is even less for someone who takes a bat to one without any legal or moral justification.

Cosmoline
January 13, 2006, 10:26 PM
Question, too, do baseball bats officially count as a deadly weapon, if a gang of suspicious sorts started to walk towards you with a couple of them?

YES. Unless they are pee wee leaguers in uniform.

Kodiaz
January 14, 2006, 12:18 AM
Well hopefully they will be caught and put in one of Florida's wonderful prisons so they can die of a staph infection. But they are probably just young punks with rich daddies so unless they take their bats to a ccw gunfight they won't get what they deserve.


If one of those guys was a vet I'll be really pissed.

RonC
January 14, 2006, 12:34 AM
A bat can be quite useful.

A middle aged couple in the hills west of the Peoples Republic of Boulder, CO used a bat to subdue an intruder. They left a bat by the door. When the intruder showed a knife and tried to push his way in, the woman clubbed him with the bat while the man grabbed the knife away and used it on the bad guy.

Net results: one very battered and dead bad guy.

I think a handgun or shotgun would have been more efficient. Certainly the bad guy's body would have looked better for burial.:)

Ron

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