Firearms and Anime?


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David4516
January 14, 2006, 05:47 PM
I've been taking Japanese classes for the last couple of years now at my local community college. Since then I've also started watching a fair ammount of anime, and I've noticed something: In most anime the potrayal (did I spell that right?) of firearms is very accurate, much more so than alot of American TV shows/movies.

I find it interesting that most of the people who make anime have probably never even SEEN a real gun, yet they do such a great job in comparison to other forms of media.

Some examples:

Cowboy Bebop
Gunsliger Girl
Full Metal Panic
Gungrave

And several others that slip my mind at the moment...

Of course, there are some pretty "fake" guns, but even then they are somewhat believeable. My favorite example of this is the beefed-up 1911 in .454, from the anime "Hellsing".

Has anyone else noticed this?

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Hkmp5sd
January 14, 2006, 06:02 PM
...
http://www.gunslingergirl.tv/walls/800/gunslingergirl_01.jpg

walking arsenal
January 14, 2006, 06:04 PM
Nice pic.

Were did you find it?

Hkmp5sd
January 14, 2006, 06:38 PM
http://www.gunslingergirl.tv/

Black Majik
January 14, 2006, 07:09 PM
Super cool, the weapons they use are pretty neat.

VP70, CZ75, SIG P230SL, P239, AUG, 1897, P90.

Go to that sight and click on dossier. It'll show their weapons file and all the specs on it. Freakin' cool. :evil:

TheArchDuke
January 14, 2006, 07:20 PM
Jin-roh: wolf brigade is probably my favorite anime movie and it has GREAT gun animations. This movie is definitely for Mauser fans.

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/504/dan42jinroh0jd.jpg

The main gun of the movie is the MG42. It shows close up shots of loading it, cleaning it, changing the barrel, and of course badguys getting their crap ruined by it.

The Character design is phenominal as well (well...atleast I think so anyway, because I'm in school to become an animator.)

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/6483/oth002812b6yb.jpg

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/5167/panzer052lr.jpg

Put all of that together with an incredibly sad story and you have a great quality flick. One of my favorite movies.

I'm not the biggest anime fan, I pretty much like 3 movies. But This one is definitely worth checking out.

Haha ok so my movie review is done.

hksw
January 14, 2006, 08:09 PM
Been watching them since the late '80s. The current stories and action I've seen lately, though, are not, IMO, very good. MADLAX, IMO, is pretty bad. Bought the FMP set but have only watched the first disc. Average, but it was only the first dics. Gunslinger gets and 'eh' from me. Only one I don't question the purchase on is the new Appleseed. (Although I've always been a big fan of Masamune Shirow so there was a big pull for me on that one.)

CypherNinja
January 14, 2006, 09:21 PM
I'm a HUGE Shirow fan, so Appleseed, Gits, Gits SAC, etc..... is an automatic, no-questions-asked buy for me. :D

That being said, firearms are banned in Japan so there's a lot of 'wishing' going on. (hence Airsoft) Since firearms are at a cult-like status and are NOT available, enthusiasts are reduced to debating points of design and other details endlessly on the 'net rather actually going out and SHOOTING. :D

So when they do show up in media over there, they're either crazy-nutso-sci-fi-guns or really accurately portayed. (I.E. The animators/director/producer was an enthusiast)



My theory, anyway.

EDIT: Cowboy Bebop, Jin-Roh, FMP (especially Fumoffu), Appleseed, GitS (both movies and both series) and Gungrave all rocked. Gunslinger Girl and Madlax (not near as good as Noir) were OK.

AirPower
January 14, 2006, 10:34 PM
I like Gundam's beam rifles. :D

Firethorn
January 14, 2006, 10:54 PM
This just makes me shudder...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33958&stc=1&d=1137293399

That's a 454 Casull Auto he's cocking with his teeth there...

Beetle Bailey
January 14, 2006, 11:27 PM
What's with the long faces on the Gunslinger Girls? If I had all that weaponry, I'd have the decency to at least crack a smile or two. ;)

BTW, there is also an anime called "Gunsmith Cats" which has some realistic guns. It's based on a manga (comic book) and the manga has realistic guns, too.

There are also a few "gun geek" references in the manga as well. There are quite a few car chases and some of the license plates read: KAR 98K,
WA 2000, and WIN 308. :cool:

Also, in a humorous bit of gun snobbery, one of the characters berates another for carrying a 9mm Glock, calling it a "cheapo Saturday night special." :what:

Oh, and I guess I should mention that this stuff ain't for kids.

spaceCADETzoom
January 14, 2006, 11:37 PM
The reason why is simple.

The Japanese, probably moreso than any other culture on the planet, fetishize guns. This is because of the fact thier history and culture. Emasculated males, a severe history of obedience and submission, etc, all add up to the gun as a holy grail of phallic symbols--infinitely moreso than even overt 80s hollywood action movies... They dont have guns and theyre a nation full of geeks (not completely derrogatory--i'm a huge geek myself) who have never seen a gun before. Hence, they're counterstrike- type fanboys, and Jane's swilling info junkies. ask any las vegas gun store owner near the strip about the japanese.... or look at thier videogames (i.e. metal gear solid series), thier "anime," and airsoft. much of thier culture seems to stem from the japanese equivalent of fat-simpsons-comic-book-guy. Their anime is about schoolgirls in short skirts with guns and giant robots. ANd of course, some really effeminate boys. Odd, but japnese...

Cosmoline
January 14, 2006, 11:48 PM
The only one that really impresses me is Cowboy Bebop. It's the only anime I've seen with a coherent plot and realistic characters. And the animators don't use so many weird big heads with the silly faces. The big bad "Vincent" in the movie is one of the best bad guys in show I've seen recently. The fact that he uses a spot-on perfect Strayer Voigt 1911 is icing on the cake.

spaceCADETzoom
January 14, 2006, 11:58 PM
I agree with that about cowboy ebop. I'm not a fan of japanimation. And watching cowboy bebop was at first like pulling teeth...but someone bougth me the set...first few eps i was "eh"...but watching the whole series, its probably my favorite anuimated, foreiegn, or otherwise.

Cosmoline
January 15, 2006, 12:06 AM
This just makes me shudder...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=33958&stc=1&d=1137293399

That's a 454 Casull Auto he's cocking with his teeth there...

It's an interesting idea, but made in England??

http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/joshua

I love this one!

http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/sheet19.jpg

Firethorn
January 15, 2006, 12:13 AM
It's an interesting idea, but made in England??

What's wrong with England? Other than maybe price...

That alterverse england has some issues. Besides, for a totally custom gun, I'd tend to think that the weaponsmith is more important than the country it's made it.

Besides, don't they still make some of the better top dollar rifles?

akodo
January 15, 2006, 02:39 AM
as mentioned, no firearms in japan. Here in the usa, we are exposed to guns much more frequently, so that even if someone really doesn't know anything about guns, he sure thinks he does. Hence a lot of us animators won't bother checking, 'because they know what a gun looks like!' This is why you see guns that have recongizable parts and features, but are often out of size or messed up in other ways (like a double barreled pump shotgun)

The anime in it's earlier forms, the japanese artists would get actual pictures of guns to base their drawings on. The current generation of anime artists grew up watching anime with carefully and accurately drawn guns, and they follow suit.

That's also why you have relatively realistic looking fake guns, yet make very odd mistakes, like that cocking a gun with your mouth, or frequently depicting a character using a very low power firearm, something were you really wonder why he doesn't drop it and pick up something better off the ton of guys he just killed. A walther PP in .32 just isn't very awe inspiring, except if you have no real concept of how different a .32 and a 9mm or 40 is.

Side note, what is with constantly seeing Jerichos in anime. Lots of times when gun noobs who get most of their gun info off of the tv or movies will list the jericho in with guns they'ed like to get when i talk em up. Glock, Beretta, Desert Eagle, Jericho, Sig. Jericho didn't make that TV influenced short list 5-10 years ago

David4516
January 15, 2006, 03:11 AM
Oh man, how could I have forgotten about Noir and Gunsmith Cats? :banghead:

TheArchDuke, I have to agree with you. I don't normally like anime movies (most of what I watch are TV series), but Jin-Roh was awsome. I wonder if there will be a sequel.

like that cocking a gun with your mouth,

Isn't that possible though? I've never tried it, but I bet it can be done. I'm not sure WHY you'd want to. In this case the character is a crazy vampire so that might explain why he'd do it...

GunnySkox
January 15, 2006, 03:17 AM
Yeah, you can't really talk smack about a vampire doing something we mortals would find silly with his gigantamongous handgun. If he wants to rack the slide with his teeth, he can, and he will, by God. Or he might just, y'know, drop a train on you. If he freakin' feels like it. GOSH.

~GnSx
I totally slid right out of Anime-Nerd mode and straight into Napoleon Dynamite mode. I win.

Cosmoline
January 15, 2006, 04:29 AM
What's wrong with England? Other than maybe price...

That alterverse england has some issues. Besides, for a totally custom gun, I'd tend to think that the weaponsmith is more important than the country it's made it.

Besides, don't they still make some of the better top dollar rifles?

The People's Parliament no longer allows any handguns to be made in England. Webley & Scott was reduced to making pellet guns after WWII and is now bankrupt. Also, the idea of anyone in the UK making a custom 1911 with Dick Casull's cartridge is pretty silly. It would more properly be custom made in WYOMING. Though I doubt anyone in Japan knows where Wyoming is. The confusion between long dead British gunsmiths and the .454 Casull reminds me of the conventional wisdom in Japan that Santa Clause and Jesus are the same person.

There are still some outfits in the UK making hugely overpriced double rifles, but it's only a matter of time before they are also torn apart and tossed into the furnaces for the good of the masses.

zahc
January 15, 2006, 04:45 AM
Jin-roh: wolf brigade

Well I just bought it, it better be good. I have a hard time finding time to watch TV shows unless they are really good (like bebop, not only for the guns, the music rocks).

TheArchDuke
January 15, 2006, 06:06 AM
TheArchDuke, I have to agree with you. I don't normally like anime movies (most of what I watch are TV series), but Jin-Roh was awsome. I wonder if there will be a sequel.


There is a sequel. Infact there might be three. I'm not sure. There are also two live action movies but I heard they were slow and boring.
But if you're interested they're called "The Red Spectacles" and "Kerberos panzer cops" (I think).

I'm personally not going to see any other movie from the series because I heard they weren't great and I don't want them to ruin Wolf Brigade for me haha.

Firethorn
January 15, 2006, 08:26 AM
Yeah, you can't really talk smack about a vampire doing something we mortals would find silly with his gigantamongous handgun. If he wants to rack the slide with his teeth, he can, and he will, by God. Or he might just, y'know, drop a train on you. If he freakin' feels like it. GOSH.

Or an aircraft carrier. In the manga he just finished moving an aircraft carrier into port without the assistance of it's engines.

It's not really a smart idea, hard on human dentition. But the vampire in question is insane and vain, and felt like looking cool racking the gun with his teeth, seeing as how he hadn't bothered regenerating his other arm yet.

Gunsmith cats, now that's a cute show. I have yet to get gunslinger girls.

Tom Servo
January 15, 2006, 09:52 AM
In Gunsmith Cats, Rally totes a pre-B CZ75. You can even see the serial number in some frames. She even runs a gun shop, and in an early scene, she admonishes a police officer for turning over a weapon for service with a round still in the chamber.

In Neon Genesis, one of Misato carries a USP. Spike in Cowboy Bebop carries a Jericho, while Faye has a Glock 30. What's interesting is just how painstakingly authentic the drawings of these guns is.

Doug b
January 15, 2006, 09:59 AM
My daughter recommends trigun.Just google trigun.

CypherNinja
January 15, 2006, 10:15 AM
Ah yes, Trigun...... :D

I loved the Gunsmith Cats series as well. Rally carried a Model 1 CZ-75.

I'm watching a show called Zipang right now. Its "interesting" to say the least. :cool:

It's about a modern JSDF crew that gets caught in a wierd time warp thingie and ends up back in WWII just before the Battle of Midway. Being stuck in the '40s with a modern missle boat, they run into some interesting moral conundrums. Its kind of an eye-opener to see the war in the Pacific from "the other side" so to speak. :scrutiny:

TheArchDuke
January 15, 2006, 12:50 PM
Well I just bought it, it better be good.


Tell me what you think.

GunnySkox
January 15, 2006, 01:02 PM
The People's Parliament no longer allows any handguns to be made in England. Webley & Scott was reduced to making pellet guns after WWII and is now bankrupt. Also, the idea of anyone in the UK making a custom 1911 with Dick Casull's cartridge is pretty silly. It would more properly be custom made in WYOMING. Though I doubt anyone in Japan knows where Wyoming is. The confusion between long dead British gunsmiths and the .454 Casull reminds me of the conventional wisdom in Japan that Santa Clause and Jesus are the same person.

As silly as it might be in reality for there to be a gunsmith in England building giant sized left-and-right-handed 1911-pattern pistols chambered for .454 casull (which rounds are loaded with silver slugs cast from a blessed cross from some important cathedral) intended to be wielded by a vampire who hunts vampires in the employ of a secret familial organization dedicated to the hunting down and eradication of bad vampires...

Oh, wait.

:D

~GnSx

HI express
January 15, 2006, 01:16 PM
Have you guys been to Japan?
In the early 80's when I went to Hong Kong, the hot got to have items there were the gun replicas from Japan. I bought a bunch of them and ended up giving them to my nephews. Talk about true to life likeness.

I figured that because the general populace in Japan couldn't have real guns, they at least could have replicas. Around that time I really got interested in handguns and I visited some custom holster makers here in soCal. Guess what I found out?

A lot of their high end holsters were being bought by Japanese users. I talked to some of the holster makers about this and they said that the Japanese buyers were buying up a lot of shoulder holsters to carry their replica guns in. Guess that's what happens when you can't have the real thing right? Gun envy anyone?

Then when I finally got to visit Japan, I went to some of their "model" stores..OMG I thought I had been placed in gun heaven. Every type of handgun and submachine gun that I could imagine (here in soCal we have to imagine some of the guns since we can't buy them):cuss: were in those stores. I saw well dressed businessmen as well as boys buying those replicas.

So I guess that in their anime, they crave an exciting life with guns too. Look at some of the Japanese "gun books." Beautiful photography of guns. What would you do if you can't have something?

Hope we never get that far where we are stuck only with replicas, even now the gungrabbers are trying to make replicas illegal here in California.
:fire: :banghead:

Cosmoline
January 15, 2006, 03:53 PM
As silly as it might be in reality for there to be a gunsmith in England building giant sized left-and-right-handed 1911-pattern pistols chambered for .454 casull (which rounds are loaded with silver slugs cast from a blessed cross from some important cathedral) intended to be wielded by a vampire who hunts vampires in the employ of a secret familial organization dedicated to the hunting down and eradication of bad vampires...


Yes, I know it's all fantasy. But the confusion between British and Wyoming gunsmiths is typical of the Japanese. They get technical details right, but totally screw up matters we would regard as common sense.

Crimson
January 15, 2006, 03:56 PM
I love this one!

http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com/sheet19.jpg

Hey, way to steal my bandwidth.

Yes that is my site, http://crimsonsguns.tripod.com for proof I'm going to put a little message on the front page.

And no, the the only gun I ever actually was in a museum, chained down, with the action frozen.

One of my great dreams is to move to America, buy a gun and NOT be arrested for possesing a weapon

p.s. if Max Popenker is reading this, sorry for stealing your pics, I was gonna get around to asking, honest

Cosmoline
January 15, 2006, 04:03 PM
Sorry about that--but it's a very cool idea even if it would be downright painful to fire.

Welcome to THR. I'm sure if you ever visit many folks here would be happy to take you to the range.

Crimson
January 15, 2006, 04:09 PM
It's okay, I don't mind, it's not like I have to pay for it (free account)

Anyway, inb the frst episode of hellsing you see Alucard assembling that gun, and underneath the barrel there is what appears to be a gas tube, I assumed that it uses a gas retarding system like the H&K P7

Cosmoline
January 15, 2006, 04:19 PM
It would probably need to have a fixed barrel with a gas operated rotary bolt like a Desert Eagle. I don't know much about the P-7. I do suspect that a standard 1911 would not be able to cope with 60,000+ PSI unless replaced the slide and existing barrel with a single shot design.

The real problem would be the size of the thing. It would have to be even bulkier than a Desert Eagle, and wouldn't be much fun to shoot. Plus I'm not sure what you'd gain over a wheelgun. You'd probably lose the ability to chamber .45 Colt and a wide range of bullet weights.

David4516
January 16, 2006, 12:20 AM
I believe it's suposed to be a standard 1911 design, but "super sized". At one point in the anime I think they said the gun was 12 pounds. Remember, the thing is custom made for a vampire. I guess vampires don't care if their gun is really big and heavy.

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 12:48 AM
Have you guys been to Japan?
In the early 80's when I went to Hong Kong, the hot got to have items there were the gun replicas from Japan. I bought a bunch of them and ended up giving them to my nephews. Talk about true to life likeness.

I figured that because the general populace in Japan couldn't have real guns, they at least could have replicas. Around that time I really got interested in handguns and I visited some custom holster makers here in soCal. Guess what I found out?

A lot of their high end holsters were being bought by Japanese users. I talked to some of the holster makers about this and they said that the Japanese buyers were buying up a lot of shoulder holsters to carry their replica guns in. Guess that's what happens when you can't have the real thing right? Gun envy anyone?

Then when I finally got to visit Japan, I went to some of their "model" stores..OMG I thought I had been placed in gun heaven. Every type of handgun and submachine gun that I could imagine (here in soCal we have to imagine some of the guns since we can't buy them):cuss: were in those stores. I saw well dressed businessmen as well as boys buying those replicas.

So I guess that in their anime, they crave an exciting life with guns too. Look at some of the Japanese "gun books." Beautiful photography of guns. What would you do if you can't have something?

Hope we never get that far where we are stuck only with replicas, even now the gungrabbers are trying to make replicas illegal here in California.
:fire: :banghead:

You apparently didn't read my post...

Guns to the japanese are fetish objects. What they don't have makes them even more nutty...

Toy guns (i.e. airsoft) in Japan are like blowup sex dolls in a monastary. The japanese fetishize guns moreso than any culture on the planet. It's like thier pop culture is driven by fat-comicbookguy-from-the-simpsons. Cartoons of gun toting schoolgirls in short skirts that are either 1) submissive or 2) sexually promiscuous. I've just described most of all the anime produced... variatins of giant robots or whatnot all stilll boil down to guns and girls that are one of the two.

Kevlarman
January 16, 2006, 12:51 AM
And that's bad? :scrutiny:

TheArchDuke
January 16, 2006, 12:52 AM
You apparently didn't read my post...

Guns to the japanese are fetish objects. What they don't have makes them even more nutty...

Toy guns (i.e. airsoft) in Japan are like blowup sex dolls in a monastary. The japanese fetishize guns moreso than any culture on the planet. It's like thier pop culture is driven by fat-comicbookguy-from-the-simpsons. Cartoons of gun toting schoolgirls in short skirts that are either 1) submissive or 2) sexually promiscuous. I've just described most of all the anime produced... variatins of giant robots or whatnot all stilll boil down to guns and girls that are one of the two.

Ah but then there's Akira and Jin-Roh which don't have any of that school-girl stuff. Granted Jin-roh does have huge detailed guns and Akira does have huge toys that rampage....but it's a hallucination so it's ok.

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 12:59 AM
No the point isn't about schoolgirls. The creators have never seen a gun or had a healthy relationship with a girl. It's about an animation studio full of the japanese equivalent ot fat-comic-book-guy. In america, those animators are more prone to hide thier fetishism because of the market. In japan it thrives. Besides, Americans were raised with them, or otherwise less exposed to extreme fetishism...the itch comes about, we merely go and shoot. to the japanese, the feeling festers to the point of the fanciful...

Again, its a cultural and historical thing. the japanese have had a long history of brutal submission to authority, general emasculation, etc...

kevlarman asked if thats a bad thing. No, not necesarilly...it's just embarassing...sad...etc... To use my previous parallel: do you find those guys who argue about "real guns" and think the "deagle" is l33t because they play counterstrike, are a "bad thing"?

Koz
January 16, 2006, 01:03 AM
Cowboy Bebop has great gunfights

spiff17
January 16, 2006, 01:04 AM
ghost in the shell had some pretty good gun action too. like that bad guy with the super-uzi :cool:

VirgilCaine
January 16, 2006, 01:12 AM
I'm watching a show called Zipang right now. Its "interesting" to say the least. :cool:

It's about a modern JSDF crew that gets caught in a wierd time warp thingie and ends up back in WWII just before the Battle of Midway. Being stuck in the '40s with a modern missle boat, they run into some interesting moral conundrums. Its kind of an eye-opener to see the war in the Pacific from "the other side" so to speak. :scrutiny:

Cool!

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 01:14 AM
(re:zipong)Cool!

becasue of the mention above, I downloaded an episode or two. Interesting premise. It does annoy me japanese shows are in 1/2 hour formats...

zahc
January 16, 2006, 01:18 AM
It probably wouldn't annoy you if you had to draw all of that...

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 01:20 AM
i'm talking about the narrative standbpoint. the japanese have a different sort of pacing in storytelling. its kinda wierd having cliffhangers every 20 minutes...

it's not a question of animation. thier live action shows are 1/2 hr too. besides, look at the number of episodes...roughly 25-30 1/2 hr eps still amount to 13-15 hours. The same amount of work can be done in 13-15 hour episodes to 30 1/2 hr eps.

One thing I like about the jap shows though...they're not unending. they have a full arc. take cowboy bebop...a begining, middle, end. US shows have a rpemise which they use forever...until ratings drop....

TheArchDuke
January 16, 2006, 01:49 AM
ghost in the shell had some pretty good gun action too. like that bad guy with the super-uzi :cool:


I think it might have been Ghost in the Shell that had the HK MP5K in the brief case thing. Pretty awesome. I like the ladybug-like tanks they have. That doesn't sound intimidating but seriously...I'd buy one.

David4516
January 16, 2006, 01:51 AM
One thing I like about the jap shows though...they're not unending. they have a full arc. take cowboy bebop...a begining, middle, end. US shows have a rpemise which they use forever...until ratings drop....

There are animes like that too, where they just keep going untill people stop watching. One the comes to mind is Inuyasha...

50caliber123
January 16, 2006, 01:53 AM
Ah yes, Trigun...... :D

I loved the Gunsmith Cats series as well. Rally carried a Model 1 CZ-75.

I'm watching a show called Zipang right now. Its "interesting" to say the least. :cool:

It's about a modern JSDF crew that gets caught in a wierd time warp thingie and ends up back in WWII just before the Battle of Midway. Being stuck in the '40s with a modern missle boat, they run into some interesting moral conundrums. Its kind of an eye-opener to see the war in the Pacific from "the other side" so to speak. :scrutiny:


Sounds like WWII envy to me. There was a movie made in America in the 1980's, I think Charlton Heston was in it. An Aircraft carrier gets sent back in time to December 6th 1941. The question in the film is wether or not to alter history.

PILMAN
January 16, 2006, 02:10 AM
Airsoft is very popular in japan which consists of replica firearms.

Strings
January 16, 2006, 02:29 AM
Someone mentioned the remake of Appleseed, and I had to pipe up...

I grew up on Shirow:some of the first manga i ever read was his (starting with Appleseed, and movig on through Ghost... and [i]Dominion/i]). While the aimationin the remake is astounding, thestory is NOT Appleseed. It should havebeen presented as a completely new, unrelated piece. i ended up giving it away after watching it...

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 03:14 AM
Airsoft is very popular in japan which consists of replica firearms.
I understand they speak japanese too...

Geez, does anyone read threads before posting? :)

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 03:19 AM
Sounds like WWII envy to me. There was a movie made in America in the 1980's, I think Charlton Heston was in it. An Aircraft carrier gets sent back in time to December 6th 1941. The question in the film is wether or not to alter history.

hehe, you talk like no one's ever seen Final Countdown. Like...umm...yeah...there's this one movie where there was a killer shark terrorizing a new england town...its name was "jaws". hehe...

charlton heston!? you mean martin sheen, right? or kirk douglas?

Cosmoline
January 16, 2006, 04:25 AM
And that's bad? :scrutiny:

The real thing is *ALWAYS* better than airsoft or blowup dolls.

50caliber123
January 16, 2006, 07:27 AM
hehe, you talk like no one's ever seen Final Countdown. Like...umm...yeah...there's this one movie where there was a killer shark terrorizing a new england town...its name was "jaws". hehe...

charlton heston!? you mean martin sheen, right? or kirk douglas?[/QUOTE]



That's it! I couldn't remmeber the name or stars, but I had seen a long time ago. Funny, no one ever mentions it or ever watches it on TV

Working Man
January 16, 2006, 07:43 AM
ghost in the shell had some pretty good gun action too. like that bad guy with the super-uzi :cool:

I was waiting for someone to mention Ghost in the Shell. The Stand Alone
complex has a rather good story line and decent gun battles. Ghost in the
Shell is where I first saw the Mateba (and now I own one).

I think the Major uses a Sig, but I'm not sure.

Herself
January 16, 2006, 08:20 AM
Not to get too "H" about it (that's a Nippon reference, look it up if you don't get it*), but the fellows commenting on "fetishism" in anime may want to bear in mind the quite different cultural background of the intended audience. While social norms are similar to the West's in the broadest sense -- some things are quite off limits for table-talk in mixed company, some things "nice" people would never be seen doing or heard discussing -- sex is seen as simply another appetite, which can be indulged in moderation without undue guilt or shame. There's also a slightly clearer distinction between fantasy and reality in Japan than the West's present PCism would tolerate.

The parallels and similarities are more surprising than the differences, in my opinion.

--Herself
_______________________________
*Try searching jbox.com for "H shirt," for instance.

Manedwolf
January 16, 2006, 10:18 AM
Sounds like WWII envy to me. There was a movie made in America in the 1980's, I think Charlton Heston was in it. An Aircraft carrier gets sent back in time to December 6th 1941. The question in the film is wether or not to alter history.

"The Final Countdown". Fun movie, was on USA or something some night. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080736/

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 11:27 AM
hm. I just borrowed jin roh from a buddy because of the above discussion. Great thread BTW.

I haven't really started past the initial setup. I have to comment on the premise though. Its slightly irking. It seems to indirectly put the "blame" on WWII to the Germans alone. Its implying the Germans were a much more oppressive, etc. The Germans figuring out the bomb and turning on the Japanese, winning the war, etc, can be plausible. But there's a indirect message that it was the German nationalists that were the bad guys, and the Japanese were just brought along...the evil germans then occupy Japan...and japan has an oppressive government uberpolice force because of the evil german influence. Call me cynical, but hows the wolf brigade really any different than jap swat teams, etc? The difference is in the civilian response...in jin roh theres a fictional resistance. And theres mention of a JSDF and theres organized resistance and protest. Those all seem like American influences...which wouldn't be there (and where would such a resistance get thier guns, anyway? gun prohibition was predated by sword prohibition which was predated by martial arts prohbition in japan--its a long history of keeping peasants unarmed and samurais well fed). I guess it makes sense the japs wouldnt like foreign oppression (nationalism as it was)...but the "oppression" of military is no different than before or during the war...under a home grown Japanese totalitarianism...or further, the centuries long home grown cultural deference for authority...

It just seems to me the Japanese were (and cynically, still are) totalitarian enough without resorting to pointing fingers at the "evil Germans"... the japanese were complicit in all oppression, nationalism, and expansion...perhaps even moreso...ask a Filipino or Chinese or Korean of the right age...they're likely to give you more horrifying stories than a POle, French, etc, counterpart...

I dunno...mountains over anthills, i know... disregard...i'm just rambling...

GunnySkox
January 16, 2006, 12:05 PM
Someone mentioned the remake of Appleseed, and I had to pipe up...

I grew up on Shirow:some of the first manga i ever read was his (starting with Appleseed, and movig on through Ghost... and [i]Dominion/i]). While the aimationin the remake is astounding, thestory is NOT Appleseed. It should havebeen presented as a completely new, unrelated piece. i ended up giving it away after watching it...

I assume the "Appleseed" I got at Walmart with the soldier gal and the big robot guy on the cover would be the remake, considering your comments and the quality of the animation in it, and I agree with your microreview of it. Most. Predictable. Anime. Ever.

A friend and I were watching it and we pretty much called every "surprise" and "plot twist" long 'fore it happened. It's ridiculous.

~GnSx

TheArchDuke
January 16, 2006, 12:27 PM
hm. I just borrowed jin roh from a buddy because of the above discussion. Great thread BTW.

I haven't really started past the initial setup. I have to comment on the premise though. Its slightly irking. It seems to indirectly put the "blame" on WWII to the Germans alone. Its implying the Germans were a much more oppressive, etc. The Germans figuring out the bomb and turning on the Japanese, winning the war, etc, can be plausible. But there's a indirect message that it was the German nationalists that were the bad guys, and the Japanese were just brought along...the evil germans then occupy Japan...and japan has an oppressive government uberpolice force because of the evil german influence. Call me cynical, but hows the wolf brigade really any different than jap swat teams, etc? The difference is in the civilian response...in jin roh theres a fictional resistance. And theres mention of a JSDF and theres organized resistance and protest. Those all seem like American influences...which wouldn't be there (and where would such a resistance get thier guns, anyway? gun prohibition was predated by sword prohibition which was predated by martial arts prohbition in japan--its a long history of keeping peasants unarmed and samurais well fed). I guess it makes sense the japs wouldnt like foreign oppression (nationalism as it was)...but the "oppression" of military is no different than before or during the war...under a home grown Japanese totalitarianism...or further, the centuries long home grown cultural deference for authority...

It just seems to me the Japanese were (and cynically, still are) totalitarian enough without resorting to pointing fingers at the "evil Germans"... the japanese were complicit in all oppression, nationalism, and expansion...perhaps even moreso...ask a Filipino or Chinese or Korean of the right age...they're likely to give you more horrifying stories than a POle, French, etc, counterpart...

I dunno...mountains over anthills, i know... disregard...i'm just rambling...

The Japanese government in that movie is shown to be evil and oppressive but the resistance is also evil. Even the heros are evil. That's what's so interesting about Japanese stories (and in general, most stories from the east) there are rarely any good guys and bad guys. It's all just morally abiguous people doing what they do. Sometimes they're good and sometimes they're bad. It usually makes for a really depressing story since we're used to the hero fighting for good against a bad guy.

This is kind of a spoiler but not really because it's the name if the stinkin' movie. But there is a secret underground group fighting against the evil oppressive government called the wolf brigade...but are they fighting for freedom or power? They never really tell you.

trickyasafox
January 16, 2006, 12:33 PM
i started to DL jin roh it was spoken so highly of here. if i like it after i rip it maybe i'll purchase

i liked the remake of appleseed, if only because the animation was so well done.


people have hinted at alucard, but did anyone actually come out and just say alucard?(one of my personal favs)


not very gun related, but Berserk is a great anime too. kinda of a midievil feel to it. sword play and horses and all sorts of coolness

spaceCADETzoom
January 16, 2006, 01:08 PM
I just watched the first 4 episodes of Zipang (again, because of this thread).

It certainly plays some of that ambiguity archduke's talking about. Further, i like how it dealt with some univeral aspects of being a soldier, touched upon it on the first ep. Again, theres a tiny, tiny bit of me scratching my head at some japanese whitewashing (i.e. not mentioning the fact midway was the turning point and the allies were really on terribly losng terms before midway--our victory was very much a miracle with reference to the pacific war until that point--nor completely glossing over japanese aggression), but it still pays a lot of respect to not only the jsdf, but the military of all nations, of all periods...

It''s a lot more responsible than Final COUntdown. DFinal COuntdown seems like a saturday morning cartoon in comparison. again, thats saying a lot from me, since I'm not really fond of japanese animation...

Crimson
January 16, 2006, 04:05 PM
I think the Major uses a Sig, but I'm not sure.

CZ100, from the creators of the CZ75, it's a real world polymer DAO pistol

jpthegeek
January 16, 2006, 04:07 PM
Gunsmith Cats

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000059RZ9/102-5157962-1252162?v=glance&n=130

You can see the detail on all the weapons. Also, spiffy story.

David4516
January 16, 2006, 04:26 PM
I just remembered another one: Read or Die

While it doesn't foucus much on guns, the guns they do show are very detailed and accurate.

While the main character uses "paper" instead of firearms, her two team-mates (Nacy and Drake) are both pretty well armed. The German glider guy with the Luger and the "patato mashers" also comes to mind.

I'm attaching a cool ROD wallpaper I found...

Daniel T
January 16, 2006, 07:18 PM
Ah, anime.

When I was younger, I spent way, way too much money on buying anime. Thousands of dollars on VHS tapes, all relegated to obsolescence now.

The only anime I own on DVD are all of the Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli titles. Even the ones not released by Miramax in the US I have via Hong Kong grey market subs that are done well.

These newer titles are tempting me back into blowing cash on anime yet again. :)

hksw
January 16, 2006, 08:33 PM
Someone mentioned the remake of Appleseed, and I had to pipe up...

I grew up on Shirow:some of the first manga i ever read was his (starting with Appleseed, and movig on through Ghost... and [i]Dominion/i]). While the aimationin the remake is astounding, thestory is NOT Appleseed. It should havebeen presented as a completely new, unrelated piece. i ended up giving it away after watching it...

Unfortunately, THAT IS WHAT THE NEWER MOVIE IS CALLED. And, IMO, the graphics are the best I've seen yet for an anime. Certainly it does not follow the original storyline but, again IMO, quite in line of Shirow's ideas and style (more thinking, less gratuitous panty shots).

dleong
January 16, 2006, 09:45 PM
Woohoo! Yet another CZ 75 sighting in an animé/manga, this time from an illustration by Hiyoko Kobayashi from her "Dispatch" series.

WarMachine
January 16, 2006, 09:57 PM
I just bought a new gun, and this damned thread is making me want to go out and buy a CZ-75B :banghead:

dleong
January 16, 2006, 10:16 PM
I just bought a new gun, and this damned thread is making me want to go out and buy a CZ-75B :banghead:
Don't get the CZ 75B just because it's the sidearm of choice amongst gun-toting anibabes; get it because it's accurate, reliable and reasonably priced. :D

DL

Kevlarman
January 17, 2006, 12:32 AM
Glasses, muffs, finger off trigger. Perfect! :D

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34096&stc=1&d=1137475907

CypherNinja
January 17, 2006, 12:45 AM
Don't get the CZ 75B just because it's the sidearm of choice amongst gun-toting anibabes; get it because it's accurate, reliable and reasonably priced. :D

DL

:what: Holy crap!!! I totally missed the presence of a CZ in Vandread.


Now I have to go punish myself......

Strings
January 17, 2006, 01:23 AM
>Unfortunately, THAT IS WHAT THE NEWER MOVIE IS CALLED.<

right...

Gun control laws are called "common sense". Does that make them so?

The remake was an excellent movie, by itself. But it shouldn't be called Appleseed, 'cause it ain't...

Kamicosmos
January 17, 2006, 02:18 AM
I am also an anime fan, especially of the girls with guns variety. I actually have some of the Gunsmith Cats mangas direct from Japan before Dark Horse imported and translated them. I wanted to see them so bad, I couldn't wait for the translations. (No, I can't read kanji. So, they were very expensive picture books!)

Jin Ro is a great movie. (I too have avoided the sequels and live actions so as not to ruin the original in my mind) I just want to comment on the the alternate history aspect of it. Many, many Japanese anime, novels, and movies are based on a very similar mind set. Example Battle Royal, both the novel and live action movie. (I haven't read the mangas, so I don't know about them). Again, they go with a Facist gov't after WWII alternate history. I think they do it more as a 'See, things could be MUCH worse than they were/are. The Germans/Russians could have occupied us instead of the Americans.' (Jin Ro specifically makes this obvious) I think the Japanese realize their mistakes of being on the Axis side of WWII, and you have to remember: They Got Nuked for it. That does something to your national psyche! Look at a lot of their 'giant robot' type shows. They are usually extensions of the 'Godzilla' movies (which deals with the fallout and worries of, well, being nuked.) They are fighting against impossible odds. They did it before (US in WWII) and lost pretty much everything. So, they turn to Hot Girls with Guns and Giant Robots to fight the wars. And even then, usually everyone dies, and even the good guys turn out to be pretty shady guys afterall. It can be quite depressing sometimes.


But, that's why they make shows like Burn Up W and Burst Angel! Tons of Fan Service! (ie big-breasted girls in school girl outfits, swimsuits, panty shots, lots of sexual innuendo, etc.) Light hearted fun! Although, even they get serious on occasion and touch on these same themes.

edited to add one last comment: Also, alot of anime seems a bit cheesy or lame for two reasons: 1)A lot of older anime was HORRIBLY mis-translated. It's hard to translate Japanese to English. Plus, the Western World is much different than the East in philosophies, morals, history, etc. So the early stuff was altered alot to try and 'fit' into our sense of what 'cartoons' should be. 2) Most anime is 'coming of age' stories. So, that is why the hero's are always 14 years old and have to save the world. It's all about growing up and taking responsibilty about stuff, especially when you don't want to. Even if it means driving a giant robot into certain death.

zahc
January 17, 2006, 02:35 AM
Yeah, it's really terrible how badly dubbed some of it is. I usually have to tell people 'you know how the dialog and acting really, really suck...yeah, just ignore that'.

Going with the subtitles is usually a much better bet. Of course it would be cool to learn spoken japanese.

David4516
January 17, 2006, 03:06 AM
Kamicosmos, your post have "Evangelion" written all over it :neener:

And I just thought of another great "girls with guns" anime: Chrno Crusade. It's set in 1920's New York, the main character is a girl named Rosette who has some interesting weaponry, including "Tommy" guns, 1911's, and broom-handle Mausers. The thing that makes it funny is that she's suposed to be a Nun :evil:

Herself
January 17, 2006, 06:55 AM
Zahc: start with "omae mo na!"* ;)

Kevlarman: "Glasses, muffs, finger off trigger. Perfect!"
Only if she's not in the lane to your right, in which case it's "Hey, Miss! Pleeeeze stop paintin' me when you reload!" In RL, doing what she's doing at my local range would get her invited to depart. ...Okay, artistic license and all that but still, refraining from having the muzzle cover anything you wouldn't mind destroying is more basic than eye and ear protection.... Note the wheelgun on the shelf is also not pointed downrange, further evidence of poor gun-handling habits.

--Herself
_________________________
* "The same to ya!" stereotypical .jp H4Ck3R D00D retort.

David4516
January 17, 2006, 07:13 AM
Herself,

nihongo ga wakarimasu ka?

Also, if you look at that pic again, you'll notice that there aren't any other targets downrange. That leads me to believe that she's the only one there. If that is the case then what she's doing isn't so unsafe (still a bad habit to get into though...)

Herself
January 17, 2006, 07:31 AM
David: only if someone translates for me. I know just about enough to get into trouble! It's just that I keep meeting interesting folk from Nippon, and/or finding cool and wonderful things from there.

As for the righter-than-most anime markswoman, we cannot see the entire hot side of the range. It caught my eye because the dimensions could be about like the place I usually shoot: she'd be in Lane 4 and we'd be seeing targets for 3, 4, 5 and 6 if they were there. Would she even notice if somebody set up on Lane 3, let alone 2 or 1? (Major geek mode, what's the term, "otaku?" It's Art, not Life...!) One other safety aspect you gents haven't noticed: she's wearing a top with a high neckline. This can be quite important at the range! (.22 brass is the worst, yeeeow is it hot!)

--H

Kevlarman
January 17, 2006, 11:24 AM
Kevlarman: "Glasses, muffs, finger off trigger. Perfect!"
Only if she's not in the lane to your right, in which case it's "Hey, Miss! Pleeeeze stop paintin' me when you reload!" In RL, doing what she's doing at my local range would get her invited to depart. ...Okay, artistic license and all that but still, refraining from having the muzzle cover anything you wouldn't mind destroying is more basic than eye and ear protection.... Note the wheelgun on the shelf is also not pointed downrange, further evidence of poor gun-handling habits.

Actually, Rally has her own private range in the basement of her home. :D

Firethorn
January 17, 2006, 11:58 AM
Actually, Rally has her own private range in the basement of her home. :D

What I was about to say. Thay's Rally's private range. She can do what she likes down there, and if you object you can be the one to leave. :neener:

If you think Rally's bad, you don't want to come within 100 yards of Minnie. She's the explosives 'expert'. She generally can't stop at 1 grenade.

It makes me sad that I don't have a range in the basement.

Oh, and it was absolutly hilareous when she got some burglars. Minnie threw a box of grenades, all missing pins, at them.

Herself
January 17, 2006, 12:18 PM
A box of grenades is certainly an effective response...as long as "getting the bad guys" was the highest priority. They do tend to leave a mess.

As for having one's own range, IMO it's still no excuse for bad habits, at least not outside of fiction. Such habits do not tend to remain behind when the person who's got them goes elsewhere. (And you should just see my scathing comments about Elmer Fudd...!) ;)

My local indoor range is a little "hotter" than many, being quite relaxed about loading up mags and kept-open revolvers at the fiddle tables back of the line. Shooting at stricter ranges where nothing's allowed to be loaded away from firing positions, I have found that I have to be quite vigilant.

--H

Firethorn
January 17, 2006, 06:06 PM
A box of grenades is certainly an effective response...as long as "getting the bad guys" was the highest priority. They do tend to leave a mess.

Yeah, Rally was pissed afterwards about it as well...

Tequila_Sauer
January 17, 2006, 06:24 PM
Much love for Gunsmith Cats detail. That was the first show where I really noticed the attention given to guns in anime. Not only does the main chick wield the CZ 75, but it's a centerpiece of the show, prominently displayed. She's also used a Sig p210 at times.


Also, while we're giving love to Japanese Anime, might as well give some to Japanese video games. The Metal Gear series has had some great gun pr0n. SOCOMs, Colt SAA's, M4s, AK74U's, etc.

mbs357
January 17, 2006, 08:01 PM
Glasses, muffs, finger off trigger. Perfect! :D

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34096&stc=1&d=1137475907
That is because Rally IS perfect.
I need to read through the manga again.
Also, the reason girls in anime tote CZs a lot is probably because of Rally. ;D

Rubikees
January 17, 2006, 09:14 PM
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Crying Freeman, or at least I did not see the thread. The first episode was really good, no big head or oversized eyes. After the first episode the plots just got plain weird. Anyway, the oddest thing was that it was one of very few anime set in modern times that the characters used a revolver.

hksw
January 17, 2006, 10:39 PM
Crying Freeman (the manga) was actually the first that impressed me with the detail in artwork, particularly the guns and cars. Check out the manga.

loose cannon
January 18, 2006, 04:33 AM
i watched the entire dvd set of hellsing i borrowed from a shooting buddy.i did it in one 6 hour session;fascinating stuff i think im adicted.

now to check out a few more titles from this thread.

Kamicosmos
January 18, 2006, 04:40 AM
Kamicosmos, your post have "Evangelion" written all over it

yeah, I probably should have specifically said that, since that is exactly what I was thinking of while I was typing all that up.


Mmmmm....Rei.

Spiggy
January 18, 2006, 05:13 AM
it's all about Misato... And her SIG 2340, and immense alcohol consumption

Osoroshii kangae nimo osoware mas :evil:

otomik
January 18, 2006, 05:34 AM
kenichi sonoda in rally vincent character design has some style.

take a good look at that CZ75, not only Pre-B but with the first run style frame, in the manga she goes on about how the metal used is the hardest ever used in a production firearm and that the later models were toned down for costs.

she also carried a P210 and a CZ .25 in her sleeve. she's also got taste in cars.

David4516
January 18, 2006, 05:34 AM
loose cannon,

Welcome to the world of anime! There are TONS of great titles out there.

By the way, there is a second Hellsing Series currently in production :evil:

Spiggy and Kamicosmos,

I'm more of an Asuka fan myself. I liked that episode where she had the big pile of guns for her Eva, and she'd shoot one untill it was empty, toss it aside, and pick up the next one. For some reason I just thought that was cool. Also, her big battle in "End of Evangelion" (the movie) was the coolest part of the whole series if you ask me...

Spiggy
January 18, 2006, 06:18 AM
Beware the pretty ones

That red's got some flare, doesnt she? reminds me of a girl I knew in highschool... -ouch-

Come to think of it(absolute coincidence!?), I wouldnt've met her hadn't it been for Evangelion

Now IIRC, the girl that voiced Asuka is also a j-pop or j-rock star... correct me if I'm wrong

EDIT!
On topic, sorry I was phasing. One of the gun's spotted in that scene would be a highly modified and cartooned... FAMAS! -Did anyone catch that?

Kevlarman
January 18, 2006, 11:21 AM
it's all about Misato... And her SIG 2340, and immense alcohol consumption

Muh, Misato packs a USP! :neener:

Devonai
January 18, 2006, 02:52 PM
it's all about Misato... And her SIG 2340, and immense alcohol consumption


Oh, God, HERETIC!

(Screen cap from EoE)

BTW, Yebisu is pretty good if you can find it.

Spiggy
January 18, 2006, 03:53 PM
I recall it's a SIG in the movie- then again, I havent opened my box set in almost three years

Deadman
January 20, 2006, 09:35 AM
I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but upon viewing episode 18 ( Assassination Duet - Lost Heritage ) of the Ghost in the Shell series I was quite surprised to see a rather decent portrayal of cartrigde reloading.

David4516
January 27, 2006, 03:09 PM
Well, I thought Full Metal Panic had done a good job on their guns, but I just watched an episode last night where they show a bullet being fired, slow motion. The problem was it was the whole round, case and all, that came out of the muzzle of the gun :banghead:

I was quite surprised to see a rather decent portrayal of cartrigde reloading.

Don't see that very often. I think the only anime-reloading I've seen was in Chrno Crusade, and it wasn't a very good potrayal IMHO...

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