C&R firearms as investments


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chestnut ridge
January 16, 2006, 07:21 PM
My hind sight is 20-20. The only mistake I ever made buying surplus
military rifles- was not buying enough. I should have stacked up the
96 and 38 swedish mausers like cord wood.
My question- of what is currently on the C&R market- what will be
worth buying and storing for a future price increase?

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ReadyontheRight
January 16, 2006, 07:53 PM
If you want to make money, guns are not a great investment.

Guns ARE a good long-term (think 'generations') AND "End of the world as we know it" investment.

That being said, there were only 500,000 K31s manufacutured....$79 high powered rifles from Russia cannot last forever....1903 Springfields are drying up and the Garands from the CMP will run out someday.

ReadyontheRight
January 16, 2006, 07:56 PM
And the Yugos will probably hit some sort of restriction on C&R status. I'd say work on the "buy low" side of the equation on any of those and you will make some $$ eventually.

Although putting your effort into some painting, carpentry and landscaping on an inexpensive house might deliver you more real $$.

joab
January 16, 2006, 08:05 PM
I bought an Arisaka with Mum in very good condition for $30 about 20 years ago, I wonder what if would be worth now

they used to sell M1 Carbines at the Ligetts drug store for about $100

K-Mart used to sell Mausers in whiskey barrels for about $30.

If I only knew then what I know now

M.E.Eldridge
January 16, 2006, 09:27 PM
Many I know consider the Finnish Mosin Nagants to be good investments. Guns, when kept in good condition and well cared for seem to bring more money than other items in their age/condition/initial cost.

thatguy
January 16, 2006, 09:42 PM
I agree with RotR. Guns are simply not good investmets if you want to make money. Sure, they go up in value, and some have really gone up, but they still pale in comparison to the stock market or any other of a number of places to put your money.

Ohen Cepel
January 16, 2006, 09:48 PM
I think they are a good investment. They rarely go down in value and unless you make a HUGE amount of profit on them you probably won't pay taxes on the profit.

If you make money in the stock market they are going to take their cut for sure.

Also, with the gun I have something. With stocks I only have electrons that say I have something.

I'm into both, but the guns bring me much more enjoyment:evil:

Now, if you were into Class III stuff I think that was in the top 5 best investments last year as reported by US News and World Report! Not bad considering the value of my Enron holdings.

JOAB,
Not sure which model you have or condition. I think it would run from $200 (for a rough standard 99) and up.

hotpig
January 16, 2006, 10:01 PM
I wished that I had got a load of those Spanish FR rifles a few years ago when they were 69.00

joab
January 16, 2006, 10:03 PM
Not sure which model you have or condition. I think it would run from $200 (for a rough standard 99) and up.That's the sad part, I had two one looked as good as my unissued yugo looked when I bought it.
I gave them a way to a cousin because ammo was too hard to find at the time. He converted on the 30.06 and used the other for parts

cracked butt
January 16, 2006, 10:13 PM
Buy quality, condition, and rarity.

A $79 russian mosin nagant will probably never be worth more than $79 in todays dollars in my lifetime as there were probably 50-100 million of them made. A remington or westinghouse mosin nagant or anything reworked by the Finns will always go up in value.

Anything made by the swedes will continue to go up in value, especially the rarer models. An M41b, CG63, CG80, or M94 carbine are as good as gold. I recently saw a rebuilt M94 sell on gunbroker for $3000 only because it was once a school carbine.

CMP M1 garands are a no brainer. For $500 you can by a rifle that normally sells for at least $700 outside of the CMP, and the price will go up dramatically in a few years when CMP runs out of rifles.

Yugo SKS's- they are priced where they are practically being given away. Some places even sell pairs or even crates of rifles with consecutive serial numbers.

Swiss rifles. A decade ago another very well made and very accurate rifle sold for around $80 a piece. Sound familiar?

cracked butt
January 16, 2006, 10:17 PM
Sure, they go up in value, and some have really gone up, but they still pale in comparison to the stock market or any other of a number of places to put your money.


I bought a pair of all matching swede 96s in 2002 for $160-170 a piece one being an oberndorf. They have increased in value significantly. How has the stock market done in the last 4 years?

I'm not saying that the stock market is a bad place to put money as I have 20x as much money in stocks and other equities than I have in guns, but putting money into the right guns isn't exactly wishful thinking like the people who were buying beanie babies a few years ago. :)

M.E.Eldridge
January 16, 2006, 10:37 PM
Buy quality, condition, and rarity.

A $79 russian mosin nagant will probably never be worth more than $79 in todays dollars in my lifetime as there were probably 50-100 million of them made. A remington or westinghouse mosin nagant or anything reworked by the Finns will always go up in value.

Anything made by the swedes will continue to go up in value, especially the rarer models. An M41b, CG63, CG80, or M94 carbine are as good as gold. I recently saw a rebuilt M94 sell on gunbroker for $3000 only because it was once a school carbine.

CMP M1 garands are a no brainer. For $500 you can by a rifle that normally sells for at least $700 outside of the CMP, and the price will go up dramatically in a few years when CMP runs out of rifles.

Yugo SKS's- they are priced where they are practically being given away. Some places even sell pairs or even crates of rifles with consecutive serial numbers.

Swiss rifles. A decade ago another very well made and very accurate rifle sold for around $80 a piece. Sound familiar?

For the record around 17 million Mosin Nagants were produced.

I also think Garands are the way to go for investment, as are other American arms.A beat up Springfield 1903 that's barely fireable goes for more than twice a nearly new Mosin.

losangeles
January 16, 2006, 11:31 PM
Nice hobby but not financial investment. If you're looking exclusively for a logicial, economic investment with a good return when you sell, there are many other instruments that make sense.

Crosshair
January 17, 2006, 01:12 AM
I am buying an Enfield revolver and a Savage Model 99 as "investment" guns. Makarov pistols would be another gun to invest in as well as CZ-52s. The Makarovs are not C&R and would likely double in value when they do (Supply and demand.) K-31s and CZ-52s seem to be getting scarce as well as supplies dry up. (Got a K-31, CZ-52 is on backorder, need to get a Makarov.) South American weapons are going up in value as well. I own a 7mm 1908 Brazilian mauser that is 100% original and has NO import marks.:cool:

As said above they will not get the return that other means can, but you have something physical to hold and something nice to look at. (As well shoot every now and then.)

g56
January 17, 2006, 01:24 AM
A good Mosin Nagant 91/30 will probably be worth $200-$300 in about 100 years! Enjoy them as antique firearms, curious items, a piece of history, but as an investment...they suck!

If you want to invest, there are a lot of good mutual funds on the market.

middy
January 17, 2006, 10:43 AM
K31s. That's at least $700 worth of Swiss craftsmanship by today's standards...

thatguy
January 17, 2006, 10:59 AM
Cracked Butt- The market is up about 4,000 points in the past 4 years. I profited about 20% last year from stock investments and that doesn't include dividends, just value increase.

Guns take too long to appreciate. They are not good money-making investments.

Yes, you can likely avoid paying income taxes in many cases but buying guns for profit makes you a dealer to the ATF so investing in guns and not declaring income means you have to duck both the IRS and the ATF. No thanks.

kfranz
January 17, 2006, 11:10 AM
Run of the mill stuff is not a good way to make money.

Manedwolf
January 17, 2006, 11:17 AM
I agree with RotR. Guns are simply not good investmets if you want to make money. Sure, they go up in value, and some have really gone up, but they still pale in comparison to the stock market or any other of a number of places to put your money.

On the other side of that argument, while stock values are "phantom profits" until you actually cash in on them, guns, like gold and artwork, are a material object.

If your shares of XYZ Corp are trading at $100 a share, you could be very, very rich on paper. But if they pull an Enron before you sell your shares, and that drops to $1 a share, you have nothing...or if you owe capital gains taxes yet, a lot less than nothing. (That's also why you diversify portfolios!)

And if the stock market crashes entirely for some reason, it can all go poof...but your material investments are still there.

Plus, depending on what you have, if things REALLY crash, well...you have guns. :)

thatguy
January 17, 2006, 12:46 PM
Manedwolf- All investment ventures are gambles. There are probably people in California who bought fancy assault rifles betting they would go up in value and then the state legislated them out of their investments.

The risk with guns is the laws may change, or they may be stolen, or lost in a fire, etc. Nothing is 100% safe. Yes, the market may crash (but it always comes back) and a particular stock or company may fold (rare) but if you look at the history of the market it's a winner.

I still maintain that as an investment buying guns is not a good idea. You can simply make much more return by putting your money elsewhere. But if anyone wants to buy guns I am fine with that.

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