S&W Sigma


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Lupinus
January 16, 2006, 11:22 PM
Are Smith & Wesson Sigma pistols any good? I don't have much experience with them as was looking at them today at the gun shop. Anyone own one? Thoughts on getting one?

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lawson
January 16, 2006, 11:36 PM
a lot of people will say bad things about the sigma. i've heard that the older models had some problems.

i have one of the newer sigmas (9VE model, 9mm, 16+1 capacity). i've put about 10,000 rounds through it so far without any problems.

it is picky on some kinds of hollowpoints. i had an issue with corbon hollowpoints, they hung up a little bit, but still fed unless i shot rapidly. i started using hydrashoks (longer taper on the bullet itself), and have never had a problem with them. i've used many different brands of range ammo (WWB, S&B, American Eagle, Fiocchi, UMC) without any problems. i usually put 100-200 rounds through it a week.

in my opinion, it's a great gun for the money. the inner workings are all glock, with a frame that fits my hand better than a glock does. i usually carry mine on a Bianchi Minimalist OWB holster with a jacket or loose shirt over it.

Lupinus
January 16, 2006, 11:43 PM
its main use would be as a range gun, home defense if needed. Also it would be a started, my first real pistol. I'm not looking for something that can have ten thousand rounds put through it without being cleaned, or have sand poured in the barrel and still fire. All I am mainly looking for is a pistol that is affordable and that will be resonably reliable when well maintained. The price is there and something I could raise in a few pay checks. But I wanted to make sure it isn't a complete and total piece of garbage.

rangerruck
January 16, 2006, 11:49 PM
from my understanding, the older mods had various probs. the new ones not only are better fit and finish, but mech better and i think cheaper also. get a mod made in 2005.

glockcrazyjerry
January 16, 2006, 11:52 PM
I have one and like it. I have the enhanced one with nite sights on it and all black. The trigger is kinda heavy untill it gets broken in. Mine shoots very very good.For a first gun i would say buy it.

1911user
January 17, 2006, 12:05 AM
I have one with around 700 rounds through it (SW9VE; new generation sigma 9mm). Reliability has been perfect with FMJ (no HP yet). The grip angle is very comfortable and the grip is relatively slim for a 16-shot 9mm; this is probably the best point of the new sigmas. The cost is attractive, but if you can spend $100 more, I'd check out various glock and springfield XD models also.

The two big downsides in my experience are the trigger pull and slick grip surface. The trigger pull is heavy and every round is double action. You can get used to it, but it requires very good technique to shoot well with a stock sigma. A reduced power mainspring and lots of dry-fire help, but it's still a heavy DA trigger; it isn't going to fire by accident.

The slick grip surfaces is a challenge for me to hold during semi-rapid fire. The pistol likes to twist in my hand with each shot. Even with the dots and squares on the surface (plastic checkering???) it is still hard for me to hold well. I'd have real concerns about betting anyones life on it with wet or sweaty hands unless something was done to roughen the grip surfaces. This is the main reason I've never fired good HP ammo through it; I'm not sure I'll keep it and typically just shoot cheap FMJ for practice.

Definitely dry fire one before buying; you won't hurt it. I've easily dry fired mine a few thousand times and they need it to smooth the trigger pull.

It's not a bad pistol, but try before you buy.

lawson
January 17, 2006, 12:09 AM
its main use would be as a range gun, home defense if needed. Also it would be a started, my first real pistol. I'm not looking for something that can have ten thousand rounds put through it without being cleaned, or have sand poured in the barrel and still fire. All I am mainly looking for is a pistol that is affordable and that will be resonably reliable when well maintained. The price is there and something I could raise in a few pay checks. But I wanted to make sure it isn't a complete and total piece of garbage.

that's mainly what i use mine for, a range gun. i clean it after every shoot (usually), so i don't know how serious dirt would affect it. i've put about 500 rounds through it without a cleaning and it still worked fine.

it's a good pistol for a beginner to handguns. cheap to shoot, plenty accurate if you do your part. at 50 feet, it can easily keep all 16 rounds center mass.

Lupinus
January 17, 2006, 12:15 AM
The slick grip surfaces is a challenge for me to hold during semi-rapid fire. The pistol likes to twist in my hand with each shot. Even with the dots and squares on the surface (plastic checkering???) it is still hard for me to hold well. I'd have real concerns about betting anyones life on it with wet or sweaty hands unless something was done to roughen the grip surfaces. This is the main reason I've never fired good HP ammo through it; I'm not sure I'll keep it and typically just shoot cheap FMJ for practice.
Are the grips changable? I handled one a bit tonight but didn't look extremely close at it in all honesty. If not maybe a little very fine sandpaper? NOT much, but a few light passes could scratch it just enough to make it less slick, and if you dont go overboard I wouldn't think it would make it to uncomfertable either.

lawson
January 17, 2006, 12:21 AM
a set of Butler Creek slip-on rubber grips with finger grooves solved the problem for me. cost about ten bucks.

KONY
January 17, 2006, 12:30 AM
Are the grips changable? I handled one a bit tonight but didn't look extremely close at it in all honesty. If not maybe a little very fine sandpaper? NOT much, but a few light passes could scratch it just enough to make it less slick, and if you dont go overboard I wouldn't think it would make it to uncomfertable either.

I wouldn't recommend you doing any sanding on the polymer grip. I say try it out and if you find it slick, buy a Hogue Handall slip-on rubber grip. It provides good traction on slick grip surfaces. It worked quite well on the Steyr M9 I owned, which by the way is another gun priced similarly to the Sigma/VE pistols (~$299). I think you can still get them at www.cdnninvestments.com. Check 'em out.

oneslowgun
January 17, 2006, 02:04 AM
Best advice is to try one first. I had a .40 VE, and ended up selling it, now YMMV...remember that! I couldn't point to any ONE thing that I found ""Bad" or "Uacceptable", but enough little things eventually led to my selling it. Don't get me wrong, the pistol, (and my friends pistol, the same in 9mm) shot just fine at the ranges I normally shoot at (5-20 yrds.) By this, I mean that both pistols would shoot about 4" at the 15 yrd. line.

Things I didn't like, (some mentioned above) and remember... YMMV, were:

Grip is a bit "slick". Slip on rubber grips would be a plus here. Or "grip tape/skateboard tape".

The "Thumb Groove" Just didn't "fit" for MY grip.

Trigger pull. Kinda long, and a bit heavy. I understand that Glock trigger springs fit, and exchanging the stock spring for a Glock 3.5# will normally reduce the pull to 8-9# (Didn't try this myself, but have read about this being done.)

More noticeable in the .40, then the 9mm, (but still present) was a bit of "twist" rather than a straight back recoil. Not really a problem, but I did notice that it led to larger groups when doing fast "Double taps".

Having said all that, I still don't regret buying the S&W .40VE, I just ended up selling it off for something that just seemed to "Fit" ME better.

YOU try one out, and if it seems to work well for YOU, then buy it! Just because mine didn't work out for me, dosen't mean that it might not be "Just right" for you.

TC-TX
January 17, 2006, 02:25 AM
I have a SW9VE and love it! Great Shooter, Great Price, NO PROBLEMS what so ever...

Highly Recommended!

Longbow
January 17, 2006, 02:25 AM
Your money is better spent on a used (if you don't mind) Glock. The pistol it shamelessly tried to copy (in vain). :)
Also, take the time to look at Ruger, Steyr, CZ75 and BHP clones. ' much better choices, IMO.

Lupinus
January 17, 2006, 12:50 PM
was wondering how long it would take the glock and the buy these they are better crowd to show up. Thanks, I know they are probably a bit better, you often get what you pay for. But really, it wasn't the question.

Longbow
January 17, 2006, 02:21 PM
Okay then, the Sigma being a Glock copy, should work. ' happy now? :)

SouthpawShootr
January 17, 2006, 08:12 PM
I find Sigmas to be quite serviceable guns. I have 2. An old 357V and a newer 9VE. I like the 9VE quite a bit. Haven't shot it much, although I did buy it with the firm intention of shooting the crap out of it (I don't get out to the range all that often these days). I think it's had 200 rounds through it (most of these in one range session). Haven't had any malfunctions so far.

My 357V went back to the factory once. Something to do with the mag release. S&W repaired it, did some sort of safety upgrade, and sent it back to me within 10 days. Didn't have any reliability problems with this one to start with. It would just periodically dump the mag with no known reason. Hasn't done it since it got back from S&W.

I feel the ergonomics are superior to the Glock. Triggers are much worse than Glock. Then again I paid between $500 and $530 for each of my Glocks. My 357V was $250 and my 9VE was $300. Both were new and I'd have to say I'm completely satisfied with each of these.

possum
January 17, 2006, 09:03 PM
My dad has had one for a long time and i have had lots of experience with it and neither of us ever have had a problem out of it, it has been great, a little to long of a trigger for me though! but other than that it is awesome!

Nail Shooter
January 17, 2006, 09:48 PM
"Your money is better spent on a used (if you don't mind) Glock. The pistol it shamelessly tried to copy (in vain)."
_________________________________

Best quote in this thread if you ask me.

I try to keep an open mind. I've tried the triggers on a few--pretty crappy if you ask me. Not something I'd put up w/ on a modern production handgun after having tried other brands. I can see why I've read then called "Stigmas" or "Smegmas", YMMV. If cheap is the over riding factor driving your choice, you found it here.

NS

SmithShooter
January 18, 2006, 01:20 AM
The Sigma/Glock debate will always stir up comments in any forum. I have owned both, but now I only have 2 SW9VE's. I carry one and my wife carries the other. We have owned them for three years, shoot them every week and have never had one FTF or FTE in either.

RUT
January 18, 2006, 11:30 AM
What's interesting about Glocks is that at any given time it seems 25% of them are for sale. :confused:

Shipwreck
January 18, 2006, 02:12 PM
I would recommend the SW99 over it - NOT the new SW990L, but the SW99, if you can still find one.

jferrell54
January 18, 2006, 07:17 PM
I had a Sigma .380 and the frame developed a crack in it a couple of months back. My local FFL sent it to S&W and they sent me back a new one in 9mm, which my wife carries. All I paid for was shipping.

SouthpawShootr
January 18, 2006, 08:42 PM
I had a Sigma .380 and the frame developed a crack in it a couple of months back. My local FFL sent it to S&W and they sent me back a new one in 9mm, which my wife carries. All I paid for was shipping.

These are completely different animals from the fullsize and enhanced Sigmas (F & E models respectively). The Sigma .380s were limited life guns. IIRC, service life was somewhere along the lines of 2500. Frankly, I'm surprised S&W even put their name on these guns. The slide wasn't even steel :what: . They really did a mess up on their end by putting a lifetime warranty on this gun and then discontinuing it. Owners are going to expect some sort of satisfaction. You made out very well.

arover2
January 19, 2006, 04:46 PM
If you can find the "American Handgunner" magazine May/June issue 2005, and their sister magazine "Guns" May 2005 issue, you can read about their testing two Sigma auto pistols.
One magazine took the 9mm Sigma, and the other magazine took the .40S&W caliber Sigma. Both sent off the production line, and sent to them for testing.
They fired over 10,000 rounds in each of these two pistols over a few days time, giving both pistols a torture test.
Both these Sigmas came through with great results. It was a suprise to the magazine shooter/gun writers.
It seems from what they said, S&W has finally produced a very great pistol.
The two magazine articles on both of these Sigmas are well worth trying to find and read, even if no one plans to buy a Sigma.
The testers put to rest any criticism of the Sigma with the quality changes made by S&W to this pistol.
I myself know two competition shooters that use these in .40S&W on the range, and they perform well up against us Glock owners.
But it's hard to over come a bad reputation that was gained from the first generation Sigma's of a few years ago. But Smith and Wesson deserves credit for their effort.

BlisteringSilence
January 20, 2006, 09:36 AM
Nothing to add, other than some links. The Guns article that arover2 mentioned can be found here (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_5_51/ai_n13469643), and the American Handgunner article can be found here (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_175_29/ai_n13466589).

Edited to make the links work.

RUT
January 20, 2006, 10:16 AM
Thanks, but unfortunately, I couldn't get either link to respond.

BlisteringSilence
January 20, 2006, 10:19 AM
Thanks, but unfortunately, I couldn't get either link to respond.
Try it now, I used the wrong link for the permalink.

RUT
January 20, 2006, 10:41 AM
Sorry... linky still no workee.......

BlisteringSilence
January 20, 2006, 10:45 AM
Sorry... linky still no workee.......
Needy, needy. I swear. Try them now... damn copy and paste.

RUT
January 20, 2006, 11:02 AM
They work like a champ now! :)

Thanks very much,

RUT

Bainx
January 20, 2006, 09:59 PM
liner down!

Gordon
January 20, 2006, 10:07 PM
I once got into a deal where I got 10 new Sigmas , back in 1995. I fired all of them 5 forties and 5 9mms. I kept one .40 and one 9mm. These 2 were more accurate, shot to sight picture and never malfed. Sold the rest for $300 each with 2 mags. Today I have put 3000 thru the 9mm and about 1500 thru the .40. They have NOT malfed. I put in new Wolfe Springs and fiddled polishing the trigger and got them down to 7 and 8 pound pulls, and smooth. I hide these guns, with extra magazines full, around the place where I could grab one if forced to show them where the safes or valuables are ect,! No big loss if burglarized;)

CarbineKid
January 21, 2006, 02:02 AM
Check out this link(I hope this works) http://gunblast.com/SWSigma9.htm
Let me know what you think of the Sigma..if you get it. Im considering one myself

Texshooter
January 21, 2006, 11:04 PM
My fairly new 40VE has 1225 rounds through it (less than month) and ZERO FTF, FTE or any other problem. As easy to clean as a Glock, but the grip feels much better, it points more naturally, has (IMO) better mags, and has better sights.

I find the trigger pull no more of a problem than a DA revolver. The glock does have better reset. The Sigma, while having a simlar trigger safety setup, has, when safety engaged, a smooth face which I find much more comfrotable to shoot.

Mine has been a winner, and when the price is considered ($299) it is a no brainer.

Lupinus
January 21, 2006, 11:14 PM
After getting a chance to do a good bit of handeling I have decided agiasnt the sigma and opted instead for an XD. The XD fit my hand better and while the tigger pull wasn't as bad as some make it out to be the tigger pull on the xd was much better.

Longbow
January 22, 2006, 07:28 PM
After getting a chance to do a good bit of handeling I have decided agiasnt the sigma and opted instead for an XD. The XD fit my hand better and while the tigger pull wasn't as bad as some make it out to be the tigger pull on the xd was much better.

Good job! :)

1911user
January 22, 2006, 11:28 PM
After getting a chance to do a good bit of handeling I have decided agiasnt the sigma and opted instead for an XD. The XD fit my hand better and while the tigger pull wasn't as bad as some make it out to be the tigger pull on the xd was much better.
I think you'll be happy with your choice. If needed, the XD trigger can be safely gunsmithed into a very nice, light trigger pull. The Sigma design won't allow for a trigger that good; different design goals and price points.

Hardtarget
January 23, 2006, 12:31 AM
Friend bought a 40ve. It would not feed...seems every other round would hang up. He took the mag apart.The spring had been tampered with...had a twist and the end under the follower was "wrong". He bought two new mags and put about 150 rounds through with no problems. He plans another range trip with 150 rounds before he believes the fix is real. We're hopeful.
Mark.

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