[TRAPnSKEET]

I am very new to black powder shooting and know very little about it. I just bought a CVA Kentucky Pistol, a percussion cap muzzleloader, from someone who built it as a kit. Everything seems to function properly, hammer comes down solid on nipple, caps seem to fire as they should, but i cannot seem to get the gun to fire. I need some tips on what powder to use and what caps to use. Also if anyone could give me some tips on what maybe could be going wrong causing the gun to misfire. Again, the caps seem to be firing properly but when i loaded the gun, it would not fire. The caps would still fire but it would not ignite the powder. Any tips or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Singing Bear]

Have you removed the drum and nipple from the barrel? You oughta take care of cleaning those out first. Now check inside the vent where the drum was screwed into the barrel. If all CVA's are the same, it'll be a chamber in the breech about 22 cal. in diameter. It may be full of fouling or lube. If dirty, clean it out using whatever you got that'll get down there. Make sure to dry it all out after.

Now that you have it all cleaned a back together, place a cap on the nipple and hold the gun up to a piece of paper or blade of grass. They should bend when the cap goes off. That means all the fire channels are clear.

You didn't mention what caliber you're shooting. If it's a fifty, you'll need 490round balls and some .010 patches to start. If you can find it, get some Goex 2f. I just happen to use 2f in everything from 38 spec. to 12 ga. and in all my flint and cap locks. Just makes life a little simpler for me. ;) 3f will work as well and is probably the recommended grade.

Just to start, measure out about 30 grs. of powder by volume. Get a brass "BP" measure and set it to 30. It'll drop what you need. Pour the powder down the barrel and give it a slight bump. Remember that smaller hole at the end? This'll make sure powder gets all the way down into it. Sometimes the powder will "bridge" and won't get all the way down. Now get a patch and place it over the muzzle and place a round ball in the middle. Using a short starter, ram the ball down. Now get your ramrod and finish the load, making sure the ball is fully seated on the powder. Oooops. First thing. Run the ramrod into the empty gun and see where it stops. Mark it with a pen, marker, tape or what have you at the muzzle. When you run the load, the mark will be about an inch from the muzzle. This gives you some reference as to where the ball seats on the powder. Now that you have the powder and ball loaded, pull the hammer to half cock and seat a cap. Point it down range, pull the hammer to full cock and prepare to get addicted! :D

Some tips. Keep some Ballistol/water mix, about 1 to 10 handy for swabbing out the barrel after every few shots. You'll notice the ball getting harder to load. You don't have Ballistol? Heck, use Murphy's Oil Soap and water ro just plain water and dish soap. The key is the water to help dissolve hard BP fouling that will build up inside the bore. Also, you can lube the patch with Crisco, tallow or some other non-petroleum based concoction to help keep the fouling in the bore soft. This will also aid in easier loading.

To clean your gun.....you're on your own. :D Just kidding. Use plain old water and dish soap, a proper size jag and patches. Make sure to clean out that drum and nipple and don't forget the small hole at the breech. To help get the water out after cleaning, some use the non chlorinated brake cleaner and spray it into the breech, drum and nipple. Don't forget to oil the bore after. That brake cleaner will remove all oily residue and flash rusting starts almost as soon as the brake cleaner evaporates. To lube the bore, some use good old gun oil, some use Crisco or tallow, some use Ballistol and still others will use stuff like WD-40. Whatever works for you. Good luck. :)

[kjeff50cal]

First and formost, IS THE GUN LOADED NOW!!!!:what: .
That being said, the best powder for blackpowder arms is blackpowder!!!

Then the substitutes (Pyrodex, 777, and others), under NO circumstances you should use smokeless powder (nor Pyrodex pellets)!!!

BP Pistol + Smokeless Powder = BOMB!!!!

If you have loaded this pistol with anything other than blackpowder or a BP substitutes CAREFULLY REMOVE THE BARREL FROM THE STOCK AND SOAK THE BARREL IN A BUCKET OF WATER for an hour to neutralize the charge.
Then take it to a gunsmith and have him to pull the ball and load out.

IF AND ONLY IF you have loaded an approved powder (BP, 777 or Pyrodex) and it will not fire then you can unscrew the screw on the side of the nipple drum then you can put a little BP~ in the hole, replace the screw and fire it downrange. The CVA Kentucky Pistol in .50 caliber uses loose FFFG blackpowder or equivalent (Pyrodex P, 777, etc).

For starting loads contact CVA via email through their website. They may have a PDF version of the owners manual on line or may send you a manual. I have the shorter version of the Kentucky, the Plains Pistol. I built it from a kit.

kjeff50cal

[sundowner]

CVA no longer carries sidelock parts or support . Three months ago I looked up their web site for some parts for my cva hawkins . I e-mailed them and the reply said they stopped making the sidelocks . You can go the the lyman web site and that Information.

[TRAPnSKEET]

hey thanks for the advice. I took the nipple of and the screw out of the drum and cleaned it thoroughly. I am going to take it to the range tomorrow. I will let you know how it goes. By the way, the gun is unloaded, I attached a screw to a screwdriver and jammed it in and got the ball and patch out.

Thanks again

[kjeff50cal]

CVA no longer carries sidelock parts or support . Three months ago I looked up their web site for some parts for my cva hawkins . I e-mailed them and the reply said they stopped making the sidelocks . You can go the the lyman web site and that Information.


+1 on the Lyman

BTW get a copy of the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual by Sam Fadala it worth its weight in blackpowder:D .

kjeff50cal

[TRAPnSKEET]

I did get the pistol shooting. Again thanks for all the help, and i know where to come if i have anymore questions. I look forward to having lotts of fun with the pistol.

Thanks.

[TriggerPhinger]

For the record,

CVA still has parts for the old BP guns and will service them.

I am in the process of building a CVA Kentucky perc pistol and want to convert it to flint. I called CVA (770-449-4687) and they will convert the barrel for $25 and sell me the flint lock for $65. I also have a handle on a used CVA Hawken (perc) that looks good and CVA will convert the barrel and sell a lock for it also.

[20cows]

You should be able to get parts from an outfit called Deer Creek Products.

Deer Creek Products, PO Box 246, Waldron, Indiana 46182. The last phone number I show for them is (317) 525-6181

I found the above reference on somebody else's site (Deer Creek Products does not have a website, I believe).

I obtained parts for some CVA rifles that CVA no longer produces from this outfit. I called CVA and they directed me to Deer Creek.

I converted what used to be called the Mountain Rifle from percussion to flint.

[TriggerPhinger]

20Cows,

Did you send the barrel back to CVA when you converted the rifle to flint? The CVA rep that I talked to said that I couldn't unscrew the perc drum and insert a flash guide for the flint conversion! I thought that the conversion would be easy to do but I guess I am wrong!

[1KPerDay]

I don't know about converting a perc to flint, but I know the factory won't let you remove the bolster (drum) without voiding a warranty. They only advise you to ship the gun to them. I had to take out the bolster on my .50 Hawken because the factory had improperly drilled the passage between the barrel and the nipple; the gun would only fire about 20% of the time. I had to twist out the bolster and re-drill it (actually I had an incompetent "machinist" friend do it and as a result the bolster snapped off leaving the threads blocked by a broken part).

CVA would NOT sent me a new bolster; I would have to ship them my barrel and they'd supposedly install a new one. However, I spent a lot of time heat-browning my barrel and I don't want it out of my possession (the reason I didn't just send it back for replacement when I learned the gun wouldn't fire... I should have test-fired it before I browned it, I guess. But I was 14 years old and stupid).

Anyone know of a place that will just sell me a bolster? I tried the number above; nobody answers.:(

[TriggerPhinger]

I have since done some swapping and now have the .50 cal. CVA St Louis Hawken. I am not sure if I got a good deal or not but I gave the equivalent of $200.

I thought that I could just remove the bolster myself but CVA said to send the barrel to them and they would remove it and install a flash guide in it's place for $25. They will then return the barrel along with the flint lock for a total of $80.

The Hawken is in nice condition but the barrel is mottled brown and under the wood it's white! This would lead me to beleive the gun may have been a kit. I doubt that it was ever blued! I think it may be just light rust (no pitting)with an oil finish. It looks like an old original would look!

Do any of you guys know how I can tell if the rifle was a kit or not? The finish on the stock doesn't look as good as most factory finishes although the inlays are nicely done. My gun is marked "Made in Spain".

[1KPerDay]

The Hawken is in nice condition but the barrel is mottled brown and under the wood it's white! This would lead me to beleive the gun may have been a kit. I doubt that it was ever blued! I think it may be just light rust (no pitting)with an oil finish. It looks like an old original would look!

Do any of you guys know how I can tell if the rifle was a kit or not? The finish on the stock doesn't look as good as most factory finishes although the inlays are nicely done. My gun is marked "Made in Spain".
If any part of the barrel is indeed in the white, (or did you mean the actual wood was white/unfinished?) it's not a factory-finished gun. It was definitely a kit, IMO, and a poorly finished one at that. None of the factory CVA guns were available with a browned barrel to my knowledge; only blued.

At least yours works...:rolleyes:

[TriggerPhinger]

Thanks 1k,
I thought that all of the new guns were blued and wondered why mine had a white metal barrel. I guess I should have removed the barrel before I bought it! Oh well! At least I'll have a working gun that will look like I want it to look when I am finished with it. I think I'll brown it after I have the flint conversion done.

I am still working on my CVA Kentucky pistol kit and may keep it in the Perc configuration.

[20cows]

20Cows,

Did you send the barrel back to CVA when you converted the rifle to flint?
No. I ordered a couple of likely sized vent liners from Dixie. I then cut off the portion of the drum that extended beyond the barrel profile and cleaned out and tapped the hole. I then installed the vent liner that was the best fit and installed the flint lock.

That was one of the nice things about dealing with Deer Creek, they were willing to send you the parts. CVA had the attitude that no one else was competent enough to be trusted with the parts. That's why they wanted you to send it in. All they would say was that they had to convert the barrel and that "it wasn't a simple thing" to do.

It wasn't that tough. And it was fun. :)

[TriggerPhinger]

20Cows,
When you unscrewed the bolster did you have trouble getting it out? My bolster has some teeth marks (not human) on it and I wonder if someone tried to remove it with vice grips!

I assume that the vent liners are threaded to screw into the barrel and have some pre-determined inside diameter to prevent reverse fire from the main charge. I don't remember exactly what the liner looked like on my TC Hawken, but I think it had a slot for a screw driver.

What options did you have when buying your liners and Where did you buy your flint lock?

CVA barrel reworking and a new CVA lock will cost me $85 plus shipping. I think I can do the job, but I wonder if it will cost me more to do it myself!

[20cows]

Yep, I used vise grips, too. The bolster had not been properly cleaned after the last shoot on this pawnshop queen, so it was going to be replaced any way. The original did not have any "flats" for a wrench like the replacements you can get from Dixie Gun Works.

In an original flint barrel, the liner threads directly into the barrel. On a conversion, the liner must thread into a bolster plug that is drilled and tapped for the threads of the liner. I made the bolster plug from the old bolster (A little file and grinder work).

I got several liners from Dixie so I'd have a few to choose from as the project progressed. It allowed me a few options for best fit. I got the lock and even steel furniture to replace some of the brass from Deer Creek Products. Deer Creek Products, PO Box 246, Waldron, Indiana 46182. The last phone number I show for them is (317) 525-6181. They were very helpful.

If you don't have a Dixie Gun Works catalog, you need one. I know you can order lots of stuff online, but the catalog contains a wealth of information as well as making it possible to compare products in pictures and illustrations that are not in the website.

CVA barrel reworking and a new CVA lock will cost me $85 plus shipping. I think I can do the job, but I wonder if it will cost me more to do it myself!
It might, but for me three quarters of the fun was doing the work myself. I like puzzles.

[TriggerPhinger]

20Cows,
Thanks for your help! I have tried to call Deer Creek but each time I get a message that the number is not available. I'll try 411 and see if they have a new number!

So if I understand you correctly, the bolster must be ground flush with the barrel flat, counter bored and then tapped for the flash hole liner?

I will check out Dixie for a catalog and then see if I can get a lock that will fit my gun from Deer Creek. I know the CVA flint lock has the same foot print as the perc but I don't know if they would sell me one without doing the barrel conversion. $55 for the lock doesn't seem to be out of line but I wonder about the quality!

[20cows]

So if I understand you correctly, the bolster must be ground flush with the barrel flat, counter bored and then tapped for the flash hole liner?Yes. And I filed a screw slot in the bolster plug so that I could remove it for cleaning as well.
I don't know if they would sell me one without doing the barrel conversion. $55 for the lock doesn't seem to be out of line but I wonder about the quality!That's why I went to Deer Creek. BTW, I first got the phone number for Deer Creek from the folks at CVA.

[1KPerDay]

20Cows,
Thanks for your help! I have tried to call Deer Creek but each time I get a message that the number is not available. I'll try 411 and see if they have a new number!
If you do, be sure to post it. I need a perc bolster.:)

[TriggerPhinger]

1K,
I thought I posted this last time I logged in but I guess it didn't load...
Anyway, the area code for Deer Creek changed. The number is: 765-525-6181. I called and the price for a new flint lock for the CVA St. Louis Hawken is $65. The part number is LK1330. The only thing I need to do now is figure out how to get the bolster out and refit a new flash guide....

[1KPerDay]

1K,
I thought I posted this last time I logged in but I guess it didn't load...
Anyway, the area code for Deer Creek changed. The number is: 765-525-6181.
Thank you! :cool:

HOWEVER:

I just called and Deer Creek will NOT sell me a bolster. They insist it's a machined-in part that has to be factory installed. So I'm SOL unless I want to ship my barrel to CVA, which I don't.

GRRRRrrrr.:cuss:

[20cows]

Dixie Gun Works will sell a bolster that screws right in a CVA barrel and it has flats so you can use a wrench.

Everybody needs a Dixie catalog in their library. It contains a wealth of useful reference material as well as a host of products you didn't know were out there.

[TriggerPhinger]

OK Gang, here's the way I see it from here!
20Cows, correct me if I am going astray!

(1) I place an order with Dixie Gun Works for (1) replacement CVA bolster (P/N NP0905) with 10 X 1.25 mm threads and (3) SS vents (P/N NP0506) with 5/16 X 24 threads.

(2) I unscrew my bolster/drum from the barrel of my CVA Hawken and drill through the original cleanout hole and rethread it with a 10 X 1.25 mm tap.

(3) I cut the bolster for a length that will be slightly above the barrel flat when it is screwed into the barrel.

(4) I Cut a slot across the face of the cut off bolster to facilitate the replacement of the bolster into the barrel. The bolster is about 1/2 inch in diameter, so that a special wide blade will be needed. (need to match the slot width to the thickness of the blade).

(5) I Screw the bolster plug firmly into the barrel and carefully grind the plug flush with the barrel.

(6) I chase the threads in the plug with the 10 X 1.25 mm tap to insure that the threads are smooth.

(7) I insert the flash hole liner.

(8) I order a CVA replacement Flint Lock from Deer Creek (P/N LK1330).

(9) I install the lock and I now have a CVA Flintlock Hawken, a spare perc bolster and some spare flash hole liners in case I screw up!

[1KPerDay]

Dixie Gun Works will sell a bolster that screws right in a CVA barrel and it has flats so you can use a wrench.
Well why didn't somebody just SAY so?!?!? LOL


Thanks!:cool:

[1KPerDay]

(2) I unscrew my bolster/drum from the barrel of my CVA Hawken and drill through the original cleanout hole and rethread it with a 10 X 1.25 mm tap.

(3) I cut the bolster for a length that will be slightly above the barrel flat when it is screwed into the barrel.
I'm confused... why are you drilling/re-threading the cleanout hole if you're just going to cut that end of the bolster off anyway? :uhoh: :confused:

[20cows]

OK Gang, here's the way I see it from here!
20Cows, correct me if I am going astray!

(1) I place an order with Dixie Gun Works for (1) replacement CVA bolster (P/N NP0905) with 10 X 1.25 mm threads and (3) SS vents (P/N NP0506) with 5/16 X 24 threads.

(2) I unscrew my bolster/drum from the barrel of my CVA Hawken and drill through the original cleanout hole and rethread it with a 10 X 1.25 mm tap.

(3) I cut the bolster for a length that will be slightly above the barrel flat when it is screwed into the barrel.

(4) I Cut a slot across the face of the cut off bolster to facilitate the replacement of the bolster into the barrel. The bolster is about 1/2 inch in diameter, so that a special wide blade will be needed. (need to match the slot width to the thickness of the blade).

(5) I Screw the bolster plug firmly into the barrel and carefully grind the plug flush with the barrel.

(6) I chase the threads in the plug with the 10 X 1.25 mm tap to insure that the threads are smooth.

(7) I insert the flash hole liner.

(8) I order a CVA replacement Flint Lock from Deer Creek (P/N LK1330).

(9) I install the lock and I now have a CVA Flintlock Hawken, a spare perc bolster and some spare flash hole liners in case I screw up!Before I did any work on the project, I would order and have on hand ALL the parts I knew I would need to test for compatiblity BEFORE I did something I couldn't undo.

[20cows]

I'm confused... why are you drilling/re-threading the cleanout hole if you're just going to cut that end of the bolster off anyway?The hole in the bolster is too large to function as a vent for the flintlock. It must be drilled to the proper size and threaded for an appropriate liner. It is easier to work on before cutting it off, because it's still big enough to hold in vice without damaging the bolster's threads. It gives you something to hold onto.

And the cleanout hole goes all the way through the bolster to the barrel chamber, that's why it's a good place to put the new vent liner. That also puts the new vent hole in the proper postion for the new lock.

[sundance44s]

Trap&skeet ... before ya load that pistol again ..be sure always ..i mean always pop a few caps on it before ya load it .. the cap fireing will clear out any oil hideing in the breech where the powder sets , and after cleaning i never oil mine with anything but wd40 .. any heavy oil will always be harder to dry up with the cap fireing . . cleaning is easy on these type pistols .just remove the barrel and in the sink or horse trough she goes .. just remember there is always gonna be some oil or moisture hideing in the breech ... have fun and keep yer powder dry ..

[1KPerDay]

The hole in the bolster is too large to function as a vent for the flintlock. It must be drilled to the proper size and threaded for an appropriate liner. It is easier to work on before cutting it off, because it's still big enough to hold in vice without damaging the bolster's threads. It gives you something to hold onto.

And the cleanout hole goes all the way through the bolster to the barrel chamber, that's why it's a good place to put the new vent liner. That also puts the new vent hole in the proper postion for the new lock.
Thanks.:cool:

[20cows]

Deer Creek just sent me their latest catalog. Their ears must have been burning:D .:D

I haven't had a chance to look it over yet, but at least it's here.

[TriggerPhinger]

Hey 20Cows, That sounds great! I guess I'll order the vent liners from Dixie and then the lock from Deer Creek unless Deer Creek has liners in their catalog. Let me know! It would be great if D.C. has all of the stuff I need!

BTW did you order the metric tap along with the vent liners from Dixie? If not, I guess I'll try harbour freight and see if they have metric taps.

I found a BP shop here and went Saturday and bought a flask and Pyrodex etc for my Remington 58. We FL boys have all the luck!

[sundance44s]

Trigger another good place to buy parts is ..www.trackofthewolf.com they have a good on line store .. with very good pics and good prices too , just about anythink you could need to build or replace repair .

[20cows]

BTW did you order the metric tap along with the vent liners from Dixie? If not, I guess I'll try harbour freight and see if they have metric taps.
I didn't use a metric threaded vent liner. Since I was going to drill the hole, I got to pick the size I wanted.:D

Several of the liners in the Dixie catalog were not metric. (Come to think of it, I don't know if any were metric.)

[TriggerPhinger]

Thanks Sundance for the Track Of the Wolf page!

20Cows,
I messed up in step (2) of my lenghty post!! The original tapped bolster hole was threaded for a metric thread (10 X 1.25 mm)! I should have said "unscrew my bolster/drum from the barrel of my CVA Hawken and drill through the original cleanout hole and rethread it with a 1/4-28 tap"!

Track of the Wolf carries replacements for the original flint CVAs with metric threads. However, they also have some with 1/4-28 and 5/16-24 threads. They also sell the tap and 28 degree countersink for the liners.