When it comes to guns, do you buy American?


PDA






albanian
January 17, 2006, 10:10 PM
If not why not?

If you enjoyed reading about "When it comes to guns, do you buy American?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Ala Dan
January 17, 2006, 10:12 PM
Just depends, in some cases I do; and in other's I don't~!:uhoh: :D

Highland Ranger
January 17, 2006, 10:13 PM
As often as I can.

Although I do have a few HK's and Brownings . . . .

HK's - because they were what I wanted at the time for the intended purpose and ditto for the Brownings (shotgun and 22 tke down)

tc300mag1
January 17, 2006, 10:13 PM
i just buy what i like 90% of my guns are american though

Rembrandt
January 17, 2006, 10:43 PM
If not why not?

American?....not very often. I buy for quality, not for price. 60% of my collection has it's origins in Europe. European mentality is focused more on quality and life of their products. Unfortunately American consumers focus on short term product life and cheap price, "use it and throw it away". American manufacturers have been more than happy to cater to the disposable mentality.

There are a few high end U.S. companies that make the best, but it's not the norm in the firearm industry.

IndianaDean
January 17, 2006, 10:44 PM
All of my 1911s are American. Then two Browning HPs, one S&W revolver, and 4 Taurus revolvers.
I'd argue the Tauruses are American. Just South.

Hkmp5sd
January 17, 2006, 10:48 PM
I buy whatever gun meets my current wants, regardless of where it is manufactured. Most are American made, but not all.

Herself
January 17, 2006, 10:52 PM
I tend to buy Spanish (I collect Stars), Argentine (love that Ballester-Molina!) and Italian (Tangfolio's all-metal compacts).

There are excellent U.S.-made 1911s. A bit outside my budget at present.

--Herself

Tom Servo
January 17, 2006, 10:52 PM
60/20/20 German/American/Eastern Bloc.

My 1911s are American; that gun just has a distinctly American character. I trained on Sigs, though, so they make up a large part of my collection.

mete
January 17, 2006, 10:53 PM
I like to get best value for my money and I'm not afraid to pay more for good value . If I can't find it here I'll go elsewhere....

rangerruck
January 17, 2006, 10:54 PM
hard to buy all american now, guns are like cars, parts form all over the place , then assembled with some finish products over here, slap a tag on them that says american made. Are they really?

McCall911
January 17, 2006, 10:55 PM
Well...no, but so far I've only bought 'em in America.

And why not American? Generally, it's price and quality that attract me.

TexasRifleman
January 17, 2006, 10:56 PM
What exactly does "Buy American" mean?

Brownings are made in Japan but SIGs are made in New Hampshire....

kjeff50cal
January 17, 2006, 11:05 PM
Of late my meager collection has a pronounced Eastern European accent because of the dirt cheap prices on fairly well made firearms.:o

BTW because of the "globalization" industry a gun you think was made in the U. S. of A. was probally made in any number of countries enabling the "American Dream" (ie Japan, Brazil, Belgium, Czech Republic, etc).

FN (Belgium) owned USRA(Winchester). The Mossberg ATR/Weatherby Vanguard(sic)/Howa is made in Japan. The only way to half way guarantee that you are buying a firearm made in the U.S.A. is to purchase pre-1970 American arms.

I am reminded of a couple of friends and fellow pro-photographers talking about future purchases. One mentions that he is about to buy a Yashica to add to his battery of equiptment.

The older photog looks in disgust and says "why you want to buy that Japanese c&^*p, buy something American, buy Nikon."

kjeff50cal

R.W.Dale
January 17, 2006, 11:07 PM
I don't even bother to look where a gun is made. Besides it's pratically Impossible to buy products that are completely domestic. Heck even Harley Davison motorcycles are made from the world wide parts. American Iron my foot.
That being said I DO go out of my way to buy firearms made in Japan and The Czech Republic.

GD
January 17, 2006, 11:13 PM
I collect militaria, primarily WW2 and mostly Finnish. I wouldn't mind a few American firearms but I can't afford them. Out of 50 military rifles only 3 are American - a M1 Garand, Eddystone M1917, and a New England Westinghouse Mosin (that ended up in Russian and was captured by the Finns). I love the history of these rifles and in the case of the Finns, the accuracy is consistently very good. Modern American firearms (exception being M1911 clones) seem sterile, boring firearms. Also, I can shoot these old firearms with 5-9 cent per round ammo.

Technosavant
January 17, 2006, 11:30 PM
I consider being made in the USA like a feature- I may or may not pay more for it (if I will, not much), but it gets weighed against price, quality, and other features.

My 1911 is a hybrid Brazilian/American (SA loaded). My .22LR autoloader is a Ruger. My new pocket gun is a Smith & Wesson. They were all purchased with an eye towards value and customer service.

dakotasin
January 17, 2006, 11:30 PM
i won't buy guns made in japan.
i tend to buy what i like at the time, and today was the first time it wasn't american (sako).

CrazyIrishman
January 17, 2006, 11:53 PM
A few years back I bought American (Remington,Ruger,Marlin)and then I became interested in C&R stuff . A Springfield Garand and a Smith-Corona 03-A3 were acquired in the mid 1990's.

Now its a mix of American, German, Chinese, and Argentine (Sistema Colt 1911).

Ya think the Argentine 1911 qualifies as being Argentine-American?? LOL!

Lupinus
January 18, 2006, 12:04 AM
I prefer buying everything I buy American. If not that then European.

dracphelan
January 18, 2006, 12:08 AM
Let's see:

Savage 110 - American
Hi Point Comp 9 - American
Smith & Wesson Model 64 - American
Mech Tech Carbine Conversion Unit - American
RIA 1911 - Phillipino (but, an American design)
Star BM - Spanish

I think I buy American quite often.

albanian
January 18, 2006, 12:08 AM
I didn't mean to sound like I was judging or preaching to anyone. What I really meant was, if there are two equal choices and prices, would you even consider the place it was made?

It seems like many gun owners now do not care in the least where there money goes. I see people buying Daewoo pistols, Chinese guns, and guns made other parts of the world. I have bought a lot of guns and I can say from experience that most of your needs can be met with American guns. We make the best revolvers, best repeater shotguns, many of the best rifles and many of the best semi-auto pistols.

I consider a Beretta made in the USA as an American gun. I consider a Browning or Winchester made in Japan as a Japanese gun. I guess it has more to do with American jobs to me than anything. I think as a group gun owners should at least consider the jobs of fellow Americans.

I am not saying you are a bad guy to buy a gun made in another country. I have many guns from many countries but given an even choice, I will buy American. For example, I will buy an American made Beretta before I buy an Italian made Beretta. Some people think the Italian ones are better but I can't see any difference. That to me is a no brainer. You pay a premium for the Italian Beretta and there really is no quality difference. It makes sense to just buy the cheaper one of the same quality that also happens to be made in America.

GoBrush
January 18, 2006, 12:20 AM
Just depends what you are looking for
Just about 50-50 here

Crosshair
January 18, 2006, 12:42 AM
Lets see the non C&R guns that I have.

Hi-Point 995 carbine - USA
Savage 12 - USA
Savage 99 (On layaway) - USA
Ruger 10/22 - USA
Astra .357 3" - Spain
Ruger Vaquero (On layaway) - USA
Saiga 7.62x39 20" - Russia
Ithaca 37 12 gauge - USA

So 3/4 of my guns where made in the USA. Not a bad ratio IMHO. You can also see I owe my local gun shops some money as well.:D

Rembrandt
January 18, 2006, 12:46 AM
I think as a group gun owners should at least consider the jobs of fellow Americans.

albanian, I respectfully disagree......don't feel I owe American workers anything. Two things have driven American firearm makers out of business, overseas, and cheapened the products....(1) Lawyers, (2) Labor Unions. If the gun makers want my dollars then provide a high quality product...to expect product loyalty (and my hard earned $) because we share the same flag is contrary to the freedoms granted by the constitution.

Justin
January 18, 2006, 12:56 AM
America does two things extremely well:

1911's in more configurations than you can shake a stick at.

AR15's in a mind-boggling array of setups.

Other than that, I tip my hat to the Czechs, Austrians, Germans, and Italians.

Zundfolge
January 18, 2006, 01:05 AM
If not why not?

I look at guns (or any consumer product for that matter) based on the merits of the particular product ... I don't care where it was made.

It just so happens that some of my guns are American made.

One (a Kahr) I purchased because frankly of all the guns made anywhere it is perfect for what I want it for (CCW).

Another (my AR) I purchased an American made model because our government doesn't allow the import of the 5.56mm rifles I'd rather own.

As for my non American guns, they where all purchased because I liked the particualr model and/or was a good price. I have some Austrian guns, a Czech gun and a South African gun.




I believe free-market capitalism is one of the greatest American traditions ... one that means that the best product at the best price is the best choice. If American gun manufacturers (scratch that, if American manufacturers of any product) want to compete they either need to make their product less expensive, or better quality than the non-American alternatives ... patronizing American companies that make inferior products just because they are American doesn't do anyone any good.

Standing Wolf
January 18, 2006, 01:08 AM
I'd rather not buy a Euro pistol, but there's no longer any such thing as a high quality American-made .22 long rifle match pistol.

IndianaDean
January 18, 2006, 01:23 AM
Well, the only guns I will absolutely never consider buying are Chinese guns. I don't like the Chinese government. I think they're our enemy, not our friend, they have a horrible human rights record (witness what they've done to Tibet), and I only buy something made in China when there's no other choice.

losangeles
January 18, 2006, 01:39 AM
I buy guns regardless of origin.

Let's see. My faves are Rugers, which is American. Remington shotgun is American. Marlin, too. But then, there's Glock which is Austrian. CZs are Czech, and I have a lot of milsurps that are commie. Doesn't matter.

I'm into the gun, not nationalism, when it comes to guns. Like with cars, I'm into the car, for the most part. I buy Mercedes and Porsche because I like the cars. If I had a little better budget, I'd get a Lambo. But I don't roll like that, yet.

But I have bought American cars and have one now --- although they are POS but I like to support American jobs, too. Like my POS Plymouth Grand Voyager, which I spend more per year in maintenance than my Benzs and Porsche combined (amazing!), but it keeps the homies employed.

I'm into software development, and my roots are in corporate America, where many of my American tech friends have lost their jobs sorry to say. But, the reality is that in my developed software, nowadays, I have Indian programmers do work for $10,000 on great Internet software rather than spending $50,000 on equivalent software by my American peers. Sorry, it's globalized competition. If I keep paying $50,000 for work I can get $10,000 in the East, keeping my homies eating for a few projects is going to put ME and MY FAMILY out in the streets -- and THEM too.

It's globalized competition out there and it ain't pretty. You gotta be efficient, smart, nimble --- AND cost effective!

DevLcL
January 18, 2006, 01:49 AM
U. S. A. All. The. Way.

Except for my SKS...

Oh, and the little Walther is somewhat nifty.

-Dev

420Stainless
January 18, 2006, 01:49 AM
Lately I have. But I do own a SIG, Walthers, and a Taurus. The Taurus was purchased at a time when I wanted a .38 snub, but the LGS didn't carry S&W during the Clinton collaboration years. The 229 and PPK/S, because I was intrigued by their unique style.

hso
January 18, 2006, 01:52 AM
I buy what works regardless of country of origin (well, I won't buy PRC)

Texshooter
January 18, 2006, 02:45 AM
for the most part, yes. I have had Sigs (P228 the take down lever snapped off at the first cleaning. P220 - the only true AD I ever had. Fired a round when retaining snap broke on holster and pistol feel out :what: German quality I have yet to see.) HKs are too expensive for what you get. Glocks have terrible ergos for me. I like them, want to shoot them well but they are not made to point naturally. XDs are fantastic I think. Like my CZs but trigger reach a little far in DA.

Rugers - Sp101, GP100, P345. NEVER one FTF, FTE (where applicable), great price, accurate.

S&W - 686, 3913, Sigmas. NEVER FTF, FTE. Accurate.

Worst car I ever owned? Benz Roadster (560 SL?)

Best, most trouble free car I ever owned? Pontiac G/P.

YMMV. Buying American is a pretty easy, and sensible, choice to make for me.

Shadizar
January 18, 2006, 03:14 AM
I look for American first, but if I find something that is of the highest quality made outside of the US I will buy that.

Generally I try to buy American in all things (because if not I think I am just helping in making the US decline as an industrial power).

The only firearm I've purchased thus far, that was foreign made is a CZ-452 (because of the rave reviews I've read). If the quality is good or at least comperable, I do my best to buy American every time!

-Shadizar

Erinyes
January 18, 2006, 04:45 AM
When I buy a firearm, it's the country of origin that I'm really concerned with. I'm more interested in that particular model for reasons of price, quality, and whether it appeals to me or not.

For now, I've got 2 American, 2 European, 1 Chinese/American hodgepodge

My dad has a similar split. 3 American (two S&W revolvers, Colt 1911), 2 European (Beretta and Lee-Enfield).

joab
January 18, 2006, 04:50 AM
I buy from Americans, that's good enough for me

Nematocyst
January 18, 2006, 06:17 AM
First, I consider what I need said gun for (SD, shotgun, hunting, carry...)

Second, I consider caliber.

Third, I research quality, mostly by queries to this fine forum.

Fourth, I try out a few guns that meet my needs, but the decision is always made by: A) quality; B) which one 'fits'.

Rarely do I look at where it was made. That's an after thought if it's a thought at all.

So, I guess my answer is, I buy American if and only if criteria 1 - 4 are met first.

Nem

LAK
January 18, 2006, 06:29 AM
With some exceptions I am just not impressed with most American arms. Sure most of them have some elements of production quality and utility, and I would certainly not say that they are "junk". They simply do not impress me.

I think there should be tariffs on imported arms to protect American makers - this includes tariffs on American names being manufactured or assembled overseas. This would allow fully domestic makers to produce similar standard arms at similar prices.

As it is, I am not especially impressed with many arms produced since the 1960s, and have bought very few new guns in recent years. There are simply too many superb vintage guns around to choose from.
------------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

bigbore442001
January 18, 2006, 08:58 AM
When it comes to firearms, I go American all the way. For what I am interested in,other nations do not make. I like shooting TC Contenders and getting different barrels. Love to handgun hunt with them as well. There is nothing from Europe that is comparable. In addition, I like big bore sixguns. Ruger makes some fine revolvers in things like 44, 454( I kow there are Italian clones of SA's but can they handle some ammunition like Buffall Bore?) then there is Smith and Wesson. I was handling a .500 SW from the Custom shop. It has an integral scope base milled into the barrel and is trimmed down a bit. Nothing like that is made overseas.

When it comes to handguns, Europeans do make some good autoloaders. The market they have is geared towards that. Although there is a small number of SASS people there but the bulk of the market is for the police/military and target shooting.Handgun hunting is almost unheard of and probably only read about in magazines where it is done right here.

So. I generally buy American. Can't find what I want over there.

TechBrute
January 18, 2006, 09:36 AM
Justin, you forgot revolvers in more calibers, frame sizes, and barrel lengths that you can shake a stick at.

I'm not wedded to the idea that I need to limit myself to buying American simply for the sake that they are American. And, as my astute shooting buddy above pointed out, you need to clarify what you even mean.

I've got an SKS that I don't remember which country it came from, an original FN FAL Paratrooper, Glocks galore, a Baikal O/U Shotgun, and a few other common euro pieces on top of my Kimbers, Brownings, Rugers, Colts, and S&Ws.

mrmeval
January 18, 2006, 10:37 AM
I buy what I can afford. So far it's been Indian, Philipine, Yugoslavian, Checkoslovakia. I still have one American shotgun I bought when...very young.

If I don't want to let them play, how will they ever become capitalists?

If not why not?

foghornl
January 18, 2006, 10:41 AM
Hmmmm

Ruger...Ok, made in USA
Springfield....ditto
Marlin....Yep, USA stuff
Maverick/Mossberg.....USA
1954 Vintage M-44 Mosin-Nagant.....uhmmm Romanian?? I'll hafta look at it
1976 Vintage 59/66 SKS...Yugoslovian
RG/Rohm 38 Snubby...Hmm Germany, perhaps?

Yeah, I've got a mix of 'national origins'

outofbattery
January 18, 2006, 10:51 AM
I don't intentionally buy either way,it's more a case of what's available,what I want and what I can afford.I like SIG pistols and it doesn't seem to matter if they were made in West Germany,Germany,Switzerland or New Hampshire-they all work well.

Pilot
January 18, 2006, 11:30 AM
Most of my pistols are European made, although I do have a few Rugers and an S&W revolver. Colt is not really a viable, overall option and I don't like S&W semi-autos. I like the Ruger .22 semis, but not there other stuff except the GP100 and some othe revos. I think the best stuff is still coming out of Germany, Italy, Czech Republic and Austria.

poppy
January 18, 2006, 11:58 AM
I just realized that without conscious thought I have almost always bought new guns that were American made. Many of my used ones have been foreign made, but like many have said, they were bought from Americans.

I agree that the definition of "American made" is not black and white. For example, does the Beretta 92FS meet the definition? Or do you have to stick with Ruger or Kahr?

I have read some flag waving posts from folks who one would think would be in the buy American camp but won't buy Ruger because of some statements made by ole Bill Ruger back in the hi-cap mag debate days.

The bottom line for me is buy as many as possible, regardless of origin, just to spite the gun grabbing crowd. poppy

Mizzle187
January 18, 2006, 12:09 PM
Most of my rifles/shotguns are American made but not by choice. They just happened to eb the ones I liked. As far as pistols I dont own any true american made Pistols but I have two on order. I love the German pistols!

armoredman
January 18, 2006, 12:17 PM
Poor. Buy inexpensive. Yugo SKS, Mosin rifle, work great, dirt cheap. CZ pistol, relatively inexpensive, works better than anything else I've tried.
Will get a Smith revolver again someday....

beaucoup ammo
January 18, 2006, 12:18 PM
For the simple reason..we may not be able to in the not too distant future. Smith & Wesson and KAHR Arms have received my hard earned dollars.

Foreign ownership in America right now is waaay too much. Out sourcing hacks me off..and if I have to skip a foreign made gun (N.I.B.) I've had my eye on..so be it.

Look closely and you'll find China, the Saudis and others could shut us down if they called in notes.

Do I buy American? Always.

Take Care

Malone LaVeigh
January 18, 2006, 12:43 PM
I bought a lot of my guns used, so I guess they were American when I bought them.

The only two guns I have bought new were both American.

jtward01
January 18, 2006, 12:57 PM
I prefer S&W double action revolvers. Taurus is the only real competition but they put those damned compensators on almost all of theirs and I just don't like them. Even without the compensators I've never seen a Taurus with a trigger pull as smooth as and S&W's, plus it's easy to lighten the double action trigger pull on a S&W.

I prefer Colt single-actions and 1911s, although I can't afford many right now (only one single action so far). The 1911A1 that I do have is a Springfield, which while the gun was made in Brazil at least the profits go to an American company.

For semi-auto rimfires I prefer the Ruger Mark II pistol. For semi-auto centerfires (other than the 1911) I like the CZ-75B and Beretta 92FS.

I'm not a rifle shooter, but I am planning to start collecting small arms of the Vietnam War, so by necessity I'll be purchasing several foreign made weapons.

BryanP
January 18, 2006, 01:01 PM
Hmm.

SIG(1), Taurus(3), FEG(1), CZ(1), Romanian(1), Enfield(2)

Ruger(1), AR-15(1), S&W(1), Mossberg(1)

Uh ... no.

engineer151515
January 18, 2006, 01:17 PM
I use to buy American whenever possible.

I use to harangue my father every time he bought a Toyota automobile.


Until, in 1985 I purchased a Chrysler (if you can find a better deal take it) automobile which amounted to a gremlin filled, unreliable steamy pile of crap which cost me a good penny.


From then on - I took Lee Iacocca's words to heart. I go for the best value. In cars, guns, whatever. US made or not. I apologized to my Dad and wish him well as he drives off in his "old" Toyota.

My current guns reflect this search for value. Kimber (used), Taurus (new), Glock (new and used), Ruger (new).

Kramer Krazy
January 18, 2006, 01:37 PM
I buy whatever tickles my fancy, but I prefer my Colts and Rugers. On the other hand, I have several imported guns, like two MAK-90s from China, a Yugoslavian SKS, Russian Mosin-Nagant, and even a Rock Island Armory 1911A1 from the Phillipines. I'm not picky on where my firearms are manufactured, just that I enjoy shooting them.....BTW, I own a Japanese car (made in Kentucky), two Italian motorycles (51% or so of the company is owned by a Texas oil company), an American motorcycle (the complete factory front end was made in Japan by Showa), and just about every piece of electronic equipment in my house was made somewhere overseas.

Zundfolge
January 18, 2006, 01:51 PM
I use to buy American whenever possible.

I use to harangue my father every time he bought a Toyota automobile.

Problem with buying American cars is that when you do you're supporting the UAW ... you thing the Chinese government is hostile to freedom, liberty and the free market? They're tame compared to the UAW.

entropy
January 18, 2006, 02:14 PM
GW;I collect militaria, primarily WW2 and mostly Finnish. I wouldn't mind a few American firearms but I can't afford them. Yeah, those M24's and M27/30's are at rock bottom prices....:rolleyes: Heck even a decent M39 these days is $250...:eek:

I'd love to collect US military rifles, but can't afford to, so I collect Mosin Nagants. The most I've paid for one thusfar is $140, and that for a Non-Finn 1916 Sestroryetsk M91 with both Imperial Eagles intact. I've bought over half my collection for what one decent M1 Garand costs. As for all those hooting and hollering about buy American; Where can you buy any new American made M1911 for $350? I am very impressed with the quality of my RIA M1911A1, and make no apologies for it.

For the sheer fun and economics of it, Com-Surp guns are hard to beat. As a bumper sticker says, "I hate Communism, but I love their weapons!":D

albanian
January 18, 2006, 06:15 PM
"albanian, I respectfully disagree......don't feel I owe American workers anything. Two things have driven American firearm makers out of business, overseas, and cheapened the products....(1) Lawyers, (2) Labor Unions. If the gun makers want my dollars then provide a high quality product...to expect product loyalty (and my hard earned $) because we share the same flag is contrary to the freedoms granted by the constitution."

I understand what you are saying but you do owe American workers something. We all owe each other something in this country and to think otherwise is silly.

I am in a labor union and I don't understand why you think they are what is wrong with this country. What is wrong with this country is the greed and coruption of the corporations. If there weren't unions and labor laws, they wouldn't pay you squat! Everybody has to work and everybody should be allowed to make enough money to live one.

One of these days we are going to wake up and find that $8.00 per hour at Wal-Mart is about as good as we can expect to do. It is going on right now. The people are getting screwed and the CEOs are making money hand over fist. We are either going to wake up and do something to better our labor laws or we are going suffer. If everyone is making $15,000 a year, who is going to buy the $60,000 SUV and fill it up with $2.65 per gallon of gas? Who is going to buy anything anymore?

It is easy to say that you don't owe anybody anything but that is simply not true. For every non-American product you buy, some American is going to lose his job or get a cut in pay in some way.

The only thing I agree with about the anti-union talk is when the union stands in the way of progress. When the American textile industry went oversees, it was in part because of the labor unions. If they were allowed to use as many machines and robots and they wanted, they would have stayed in the USA. Labor fought them and wanted them to employ people they didn't need. Sometimes it is better to take a small defeat to avoid a total loss. Part of the problem is, the union itself wants money. They want as many people as possible paying into it. It becomes a self sustaining entity. Sometimes it isn't looking out for the worker as much as it is looking out for itself. There are bad unions and there are good one. As a whole, I like the fact that someone is there to stand up for me so the company can't just do whatever they want.

GD
January 18, 2006, 06:30 PM
GW; Yeah, those M24's and M27/30's are at rock bottom prices....:rolleyes: Heck even a decent M39 these days is $250...:eek:



You are right, some models have really shot up, but...., I paid $90 for my M28/30 3 years ago, just paid $220 for my M91/24 a month ago, $60 for an unissued M39 VKT last year, and $90 for a M28 SIG last year. It helps that some people don't know what they have. I started buying Finnish rifles 4 years ago. In terms of investment, it was one of the smartest moves I ever made. Generally, most of my Finns are worth 3-4 times what I paid for them.

auschip
January 18, 2006, 06:39 PM
I am in a labor union and I don't understand why you think they are what is wrong with this country. What is wrong with this country is the greed and coruption of the corporations. If there weren't unions and labor laws, they wouldn't pay you squat! Everybody has to work and everybody should be allowed to make enough money to live one.

Taurus, Japanese Winchester, Beretta, Glock, Italian Browning, Rugers, Remingtons, and Eagle Arms. I would guess it is about an even mix. Maybe leaning a little to non-us, however, I don't owe loyalty to anybody, and they don't owe anything to me. Following your reasoning, I shouldn't be working at all. I am not in a union, and yet I get by without their "help".

There's nothing like local 3 cutting your power cords to network equipment because they weren't the people who plugged the devices in. Contrary to their belief, I don't need to be an electrician to plug in a piece of equipment.

dracphelan
January 18, 2006, 06:41 PM
The people are getting screwed and the CEOs are making money hand over fist. We are either going to wake up and do something to better our labor laws or we are going suffer. If everyone is making $15,000 a year, who is going to buy the $60,000 SUV and fill it up with $2.65 per gallon of gas? Who is going to buy anything anymore?

It is easy to say that you don't owe anybody anything but that is simply not true. For every non-American product you buy, some American is going to lose his job or get a cut in pay in some way.

The only thing I agree with about the anti-union talk is when the union stands in the way of progress. When the American textile industry went oversees, it was in part because of the labor unions. If they were allowed to use as many machines and robots and they wanted, they would have stayed in the USA. Labor fought them and wanted them to employ people they didn't need. Sometimes it is better to take a small defeat to avoid a total loss. Part of the problem is, the union itself wants money. They want as many people as possible paying into it. It becomes a self sustaining entity. Sometimes it isn't looking out for the worker as much as it is looking out for itself. There are bad unions and there are good one. As a whole, I like the fact that someone is there to stand up for me so the company can't just do whatever they want.

Thes items I agree with you on. I saw a news piece today stating CEO pay (on average) has gone up 12.1% while company profits have not even gone up half as much. The owners of corpoarations (stock holders) need to wake up and starting reinging this kind of thing in.

Cosmoline
January 18, 2006, 06:47 PM
Most of my rifles were made for wars long ago, in many cases by nations that no longer exist. I won't buy chicom firearms, however. The bulk of these rifles were bought for next to nothing by the container from the arsenals of whatever nation inherited them. Once they're in circulation here, they're no different from used US-made rifles. It's not like some foreign arsenal is getting support from the purchases. That's only true of the Chicoms. If you buy Chicom surplus, you are directly funding the enemy. Norinco is essentially a branch of the People's Army.

I just haven't found that recent production American rifles have the quality they should. And I dislike their styling.

OTOH, the best revolvers ever made are the current production Rugers. I can't get enough of them.

Lennyjoe
January 18, 2006, 07:09 PM
Only 3 of my guns are foreign. BHP, SKS and a Spanish made 10 guage are the 3 out of country firearms.

I buy what's best for my needs.

MadMercS55
January 18, 2006, 09:32 PM
I generally prefer Glock pistols, so that would make mine Austrian produced\U.S. assembled I guess.
The only U.S. made pistol I own is a Beretta at this time. I also own a Sig P220, but it's stamped made in Germany (not sure of how much U.S. work may be in it though).
I don't try to avoid American made guns, but I will say that very few U.S. makers put out anything that I'd buy in the pistol realm. I'm not a huge fan of Ruger or Smith\Wesson semi-automatics as I find their quality is lacking to me. I generally feel that European pistols are a little more "refined" than their equivalent U.S. counterparts, just my opinion. I'm not as overly concerned about where a weapon is made as I am about it's overall build quality, and reliability when I need it.

jrpeterman
January 19, 2006, 02:30 PM
Not necessarily. I buy what I like. All of my revolvers (S&W and Colt) and rifles (USRAC/Winchester, Marlin, Ruger, Colt, and Essential Arms) are American made. All of my semi-auto pistols are foreign born (Browning, CZ, and Glock) though the Glock was assembled in the US. Another thing that throws a wrench in buying totally American is the fact that there are American companies which are owned by a foreign parent company. On the other hand, there are foreign companies that have plants in America and hire American workers. For instance, the past ownership of S&W by Tomkins, PLC which was their British parent company. It makes the argument buying American even more complicated.

Langenator
January 19, 2006, 03:33 PM
Well, most of what I've been buying recently are milsurps, which are mostly foreign made, althought the last two (M1903A3, M1 Garand) have been American.

My next project (9mm AR) will be made by me from American made (Oly, DPMS, RRA) parts. Does that count?

beaucoup ammo
January 19, 2006, 04:15 PM
..is the same I use for buying in my neighborhood. Over the past 20 years, the area of N.E. San Antonio my wife and I live in has become economically depressed..to the point that malls (Windsor Park) have closed..buildings boarded up, crime increased..the flight is on and the money is leaving.

I put cash back into the area I live in. Sure, it's easy to do on a local level..and ownership on a national level has become so convoluted you really aren't sure who owns what, but you can make an attempt. Foreign ownership in (of) America is scary as hell.

Sadly, for each of us posting here there are millions who could care less where something is made or what economy will benefit from their dollar..as long as the cost is low.

Take Care

f4t9r
January 19, 2006, 04:50 PM
with the way things are going , we had better start buying more American guns , no reason we can not manufacture a gun like Germany does or some of these other Countries. Not that there is not any good guns made here just seems others make some really good ones.

jamz
January 19, 2006, 05:19 PM
I've never really considered country of origin at all- a particular gun just takes my fancy, and if I can afford it, I buy it. I'm probably 70% american.

Let's see..

4 s&w
1 walther
2 colt
3 ruger
1 bushmaster

1 uberti
1 glock
1 Stoeger
1 Mosin

So, 11 American and 4 foreign, unless you count the assembled in America Glock. The stoeger is the only new shotgun I could afford at the time. If and American company came out with a similar, or even slightly more expensive product, I'd have preferred to buy that. (I knew about Stevens, but I wanted new in this case).

If you enjoyed reading about "When it comes to guns, do you buy American?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!