[brekneb]

What’s the big deal about SIG rifles?

Why are people saying they’d sell their AR’s and such if they were able to get one? And why do I hear about SIG’s EVERYWHERE I look? Is there really nothing comparable to them? Like a SIG in 7.62 comparing to an FAL or M-14, etc. Or is all the talk due simply because they’re not readily-available?--Or . . . ARE they available to some extent? (I REALLY dunno’)

I think I’d like to have one myself from what little I know of them so I’m not in anyway bashing SIG rifles, not at all.

One more thing? Why can’t SIG’s be imported here?--Or am I also hearing wrong on that one too?

Thanks, the uber-noob.

[El Tejon]

scoob, the rumors, speculation and outright fibbing by gun dealers is the result of an infection, identified by leading THR specialists in this field as "Iwannacoolgun" virus. Among many other symptoms, it causes among the serfs a lusting for really cool guns that are made with a special secret alloy, unobtainium.

It causes peope who have little understanding of firearms to lust after them. The cure is a minimum of 200 hours of gun school, a series of sitting up exercises and stretching and a complete avoidance of gun shoppes where guys with flannel shirts sit around and make up stories about guns.

SIGs are no longer imported because of the Safe Streets Act of 1968 which banned importation of fully automatic weaponry and non-sporting weapons for serfs. Congress decreed that only "sporting" firearms could be imported and put it to the ATF to establish ther criteria for determining what is and what is not sporting.

In January of 1989, Patrick Purdy killed 5 schoolchildren in Stockton, California. In March of 1989 ATF decided, at the direction of Drug Czar Billy "Come on 7" Bennett, that SIG rifles, inter alia, were no longer sporting.

[TechBrute]

Scoob, the uber-noob... hehehe...

ET's first sentence pretty much nails it. The Sig 550s are basically a more refined AK. They are indeed very high quality weapons. There were less than five hundred 550s and less then fifty 551s imported.

That said, the gun that will be made here in the US will likely have a different designation, and as yet has not surfaced. I will likely buy one at some point to put next to my many ARs that I won't be selling.

[outofbattery]

They're very high quality but they're mostly desirable because they are rare;the same reason pre-ban rifles shot up in value even though they don't actually work any better than the legal versions without the flash hider and bayonet lug.People always want what they can't have,the grass is always greener and so on. I admit that I dig the 550 and wouldn't mind having one,but I'd also really like an AUG or FNC or Galil or Tavor...of course if they were actually available,I'd probably still have my AR's because they'd be cheaper and work just as well.

[VTKFJoe]

unobtainium - I gotta get me some of that. ;)

[spacemanspiff]

heh.
yep. fibs and speculation.
and nope, no word yet has emerged about those 'unobtainable' rifles.
and lord have mercy if there was any to be obtained they'd cost like, at least 2,000 whopper jrs.

:D

[jungle]

About the middle of Februrary SIG is going to announce the 550 for private sale in the US, with the important parts(read those required for legal compliance) made in their US plant.
It is not better than the M-16 family, if world sales are any judge, just different.

[f4t9r]

Cool I wanna hold one and see all the hoopla !!!!!!

[spacemanspiff]

My info comes from SIG. Im gonna take deposits. Im gonna order guns on Feb 9th. You guys know how I do biz...if Im being BS'd...well guess what I lose 2 points on everyone's dollars...so Im the only one risking..if Im not being BS'd...well its time to party becasue I bet they sit up and notice if I order 40 or 50 (I am already up to 25 units)


i wonder if that dealer is full of fibs, rumors, and speculation? oh well, since that dealers buy is only open to senior members of that particular forum (not this one), its all academic.

toodles!

[TexasRifleman]

since that dealers buy is only open to senior members of that particular forum (not this one), its all academic.

toodles!


Yep, completely academic...... :evil:

[El Tejon]

Should I begin holding my breathe now or on February 9th???:D

Do I get a discount from Wild if I order a Glock carbine, an AUG AND a ZIG 550?:D

[TexasRifleman]

Why exactly is it so hard to believe that SIG would do this?

What would you have said a year ago if you had heard Smith and Wesson was going into the AR business?

Law Enforcement business is goooood money, it's not surprising that SIG would want a piece of that as much as S&W.

SIG doesn't give a rats a** if a bunch of gun nuts get a 55x, but they would LOVE to see those LE contracts rolling in. Their LE business is growing, and as mentioned in the S&W AR thread, agencies like having a "one stop shop" for both handguns and patrol rifles. Shotguns are fading in popularity, so a manufacturer that can offer a single contract for handguns, long guns, armorer training, maintenence etc do very well on package bids.

It would be crazy of SIG to NOT come to market with a carbine.

[El Tejon]

About S&W, I said, it's about time, they need to diversify their line up.

Tex, you're right, of course. Maybe I've just been around the gun business too many decades and have seen dozens of these exact scenarios play out time and time ago--every single time the gun owner is left at the altar.:D

However, from being around the gun bidness so long I know that it is not about making money so companies do not pursue their best interests.

BTW, I'm just gigging space because he needs it.:D

[TexasRifleman]

About S&W, I said, it's about time, they need to diversify their line up.

Tex, you're right, of course. Maybe I've just been around the gun business too many decades and have seen dozens of these exact scenarios play out time and time ago--every single time the gun owner is left at the altar.:D

However, from being around the gun bidness so long I know that it is not about making money so companies do not pursue their best interests.

BTW, I'm just gigging space because he needs it.:D

Oh, no doubt he needs it :evil:

But yeah, we've all seen the latest BS offering. The AUG ain't gonna happen, nor lots of the other "silly" promises. But this one has real money making potential for SIG I believe, so I think we'll see it happen.

If not, I'm out a $200 deposit for a few weeks. I'm willing to take that chance.

[Master Blaster]

Apparently there is a lot of Homeland defense Pork...err money out there so all of the PD's from Podunk Ark to NYC are all lining up the moola to buy cool new selectfire assault rifles so they can intercept the waves of invading Mullahs we are expecting next summer.

Makes sense to me, although of the last 10 terrorist attacks a rifle would have been useless to stop any of them.:confused:

Well I guess you got to do something with all that homland defense money, and I sure dont want them spending it the way McGreevy did in NJ.:barf:

[KriegHund]

They look cool. Good manufacter...er. And they look cool.

Besides, theres only 3 major 5.56 rifles out there in semi-auto-

Ar-15
Mini-14
Ak's.

Thats about it...

[Thefabulousfink]

A friend of mine did get a chance to handle a SIG 550, he said that it was bulky and not nearly as comfortable to carry or shoulder as the m-16a2.

But, he might have been a little biased, being a marine:rolleyes:

Personally I think that the m-16 platform is perfectly balanced b/c of the recoil piston behind the action. Most other synthetic stock battle rifles that I've held were horribly front heavy.

IMHO (of course:D )

[NMshooter]

Personally I hope hordes of folks rush to sell off their ARs, driving down the price to the point I can pick up a couple more cheap...;)

[Master Blaster]

The SIG 550 is basically a Swiss AK beautifully fitted lovingly machined with expensive aethetically pleasing parts and possibly better accuracy, so its really not a new system.

I read that they are going to use AR-15 mags, but I dont see how, because the mag locking system the rifle uses is just like the AK. The reciever would need to be widened from top to bottom by about 1.5" to acommodate the locking system for an AR magazine unless you can use it with the feed lips above the dust cover.;)

[spacemanspiff]

BTW, I'm just gigging space because he needs it
why i oughta!
:evil:

[Bwana John]

Actually the Air-Soft SIG 551 I picked up at the gunshow for the nephew is pretty cool.
So cool infact that I put ~4k of b-b's thru it, and then my buddy stole it before I could give it to the little nipper.:D

[Greg Bell]

I thought only the Sig 552 had an Ak like gas system, not the 550-51?

[swingset]

First off, I'll believe it when I see it.

For those who don't realize this, Sig is not the Sig that makes the 55X series.

SigSauer (German Co.) is the one here in the US. Swiss Arms is the company (who is part of SigSauer, IIRC) produces the Sig55X (Stg90) for the Swiss Army.

Swiss Arms has repeatedly and firmly stated they will NOT allow domestic production of the 550 series here under someone else's QC and control, Swiss pride and all that. However, rumor (note I said RUMOR) has it that Swiss Arms has relented control of the design for SigSauer to produce a "similar" weapon here, designated the 556 which will be polymer/steel and take AR mags....and RUMOR says it will be sub-$1000.00.

Now, let's look at this closely.

First off, if true, you are not getting a Sig55X rifle. You are getting a copy of the design, with some big changes. Second, you are not getting Swiss craftsmanship. Although SigSauer is capable of making excellent guns, they also made the Mosquito (cheap-ass .22) so don't get too high on the fumes yet. As Armalite showed us with the 180B, you can screw up a good thing.

Second, if it's produced for sub-$1000, they've got to cut corners somewhere, and count on this rifle not being quite as robust or finely made as the real deal.

Third, all of this is speculation based on "I heard it from a rep" bullcrap. I've been reading this for 5 full years, and still believe Swiss Arms is not willing to cheapen the name of their service arm with a bad copy, or send parts here to be built up 922 compliant.

We'll see, but I'm betting we either see a sub-standard 55X, or none at all.

[TexasRifleman]

We'll see, but I'm betting we either see a sub-standard 55X, or none at all.


Well, SIG invited members of SIG Forum to the Exeter, NH plant this past Monday night for "hot dogs, drinks, and a viewing" so it either exists or there were drugs in the hotdogs.....


Second, if it's produced for sub-$1000, they've got to cut corners somewhere, and count on this rifle not being quite as robust or finely made as the real deal.

And how much exactly do you think the "real deal" costs to make? They only sell for stupid money here because of the import problems. What do you think 551's sell to LE agencies for? The sub $1000 price is the law enforcement discount price range and not that much different from contract sales prices of 551's in Europe.

Have you ever held the "real deal"? Manufacturing costs should actually be about the same as a high end AR since some lower parts are stamped and not cast/forged. The "real deal" is loaded with polymer; the forearm, folding stock, pistol grip, magazines... all polymer.

The design itself is what makes the rifles stand out, there's no reason that design could not be duplicated in the US, and if you think the Swiss would hold back rather than make money then you haven't read much about the Swiss :)

So basically your argument hinges around the fact that Sig Sauer makes a .22 and because of that, they can't produce a rifle as good as a high end AR (which is all the 55x is by the way, it's no wonder weapon).

has it that Swiss Arms has relented control of the design for SigSauer to produce a "similar" weapon here

Actually Swiss Arms has a new design, in a .308 rifle called the SAPR. The 556 will take some design changes from the SAPR as well as the 55x. Remember, the 55x is getting a bit long in the tooth, so even Swiss Arms is looking at it's replacement and update, that started with the SAPR.

Picture of the SAPR:

http://homepage.mac.com/jayc67/sapr.jpg

Well, it won't be long then we'll all know if you are right.

[gt3944]

In my opinion 550s are better made and better quality than most other rifles out there my cousins husband whos in the military in Colombian, owns one since the laws there regarding importation as more linient and I loved it its awesome..

[TechBrute]

The original Sigs, of which there were less than 600 imported for civilian consumption, sold for between $1300-1600.

[TexasRifleman]

The original Sigs, of which there were less than 600 imported for civilian consumption, sold for between $1300-1600.


Retail, which is the same target price as the 556. The $900 target is for law enforcement contract sales and seems to have been met, so we're talking the same price basically.

Thanks for that info.

[TheEgg]

Even though I like the idea of the 556 (what little I know about it), I am in no hurry. I long ago got over the need to be the first kid on the block with the latest toy.:p

I want to actually have one of these in my hands, look at it, etc. before I decide to plunk down substantial money (for me) on one of these. I have never in my life even seen a SIG 550/551 in person.

I will be reading these boards to hear about the experiences of the "early adopters" however!

[Master Blaster]

TheEGG

+1

[Domino]

Forget the 550, I just want Robinson Arms to produce thier XCR!

http://www.robarm.com/xcrtm_modular_weapon_system.htm

[TechBrute]

I will be reading these boards to hear about the experiences of the "early adopters" however!
As long as you remember that no one wants to be the guy that got stuck with a POS, so everyone is going to say that theirs is great. After all, that's why every AR that is $500 is just as good as a Colt, online, anyways.:D

Here's hoping that they live up to the hype!

[hksw]

http://homepage.mac.com/jayc67/sapr.jpg

Am I there? Oh hell yeah.

[TexasRifleman]

http://homepage.mac.com/jayc67/sapr.jpg

Am I there? Oh hell yeah.

Well, that's the SAPR not the 556, but it's probably a reasonable guess as to what the 556 might look like in relation to the 551.

556 will be aimed at the AR Law Enforcement market.

So, it needs to use AR accessories that are already around; mags, optics, gizmos, web gear, etc.

8 more days and we'll know exactly :)

As for it being a POS, I doubt that will be an issue.

This isn't like some off brand company making a clone of a rifle for civilian gun nuts. This is a company that wants a piece of the Homeland Security pie. That pie is big enough to warrant spending a good deal of cash on research and development.

[swingset]

Well, SIG invited members of SIG Forum to the Exeter, NH plant this past Monday night for "hot dogs, drinks, and a viewing" so it either exists or there were drugs in the hotdogs.....

If I'm wrong about Sig making the 550 here, I'll be a very happy man. I just don't believe internet rumor until it hits the pavement.

Familiar with the Shrike? Lots of people sent $$ in for that, and are holding their members.

And how much exactly do you think the "real deal" costs to make? They only sell for stupid money here because of the import problems. What do you think 551's sell to LE agencies for? The sub $1000 price is the law enforcement discount price range and not that much different from contract sales prices of 551's in Europe.

The "real deal", to civilians (which is all I'm concerned about), costs several grand in Canada and the Nordic countries where you can still buy them, and cost $1500 here in the States back when they were still importable - almost 20 years ago, so that price would be higher now, me thinks....if you were really getting Swiss Arms quality...which leads me to the next point...

Have you ever held the "real deal"?

Yup.
http://home.alltel.net/swingset/temp/Swingset_Sig552.jpg
Owned a 550 in the early 90's, and an AMT. I'm familiar with their designs and quality.

Manufacturing costs should actually be about the same as a high end AR since some lower parts are stamped and not cast/forged. The "real deal" is loaded with polymer; the forearm, folding stock, pistol grip, magazines... all polymer.

True, it SHOULD cost the same as an AR, but not if you build it with the QC of Swiss Arms, whose facilities I have seen in person by some fortune. The polymer lower rumor I have heard frankly I think is a bad idea. Sig is capable of making a quality 550 series rifle, equal to the real thing, but will they? That's my question.

The design itself is what makes the rifles stand out, there's no reason that design could not be duplicated in the US, and if you think the Swiss would hold back rather than make money then you haven't read much about the Swiss

So basically your argument hinges around the fact that Sig Sauer makes a .22 and because of that, they can't produce a rifle as good as a high end AR (which is all the 55x is by the way, it's no wonder weapon).

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying Sig is CAPABLE of screwing up, and if they cheapen the 550, that is what they will do. If they make it LIKE the real deal, I'm on it like stink on poo.

Well, it won't be long then we'll all know if you are right.

I'll love it if I'm wrong. Love it.

[TexasRifleman]

If I'm wrong about Sig making the 550 here, I'll be a very happy man. I just don't believe internet rumor until it hits the pavement.



Certainly all valid points, but SIG has begun inviting people to Exeter for previews so it's moved past rumor. Again, SHOT will be here soon enough.

I believe there is so much money in the LE market for these things that SIG can't afford to NOT do it right.

S&W will kill them otherwise.

Every LE purchasing agent wants that one big contract for handguns, patrol rifles, maintenance, spares, armorer training etc all from one supplier. Shotguns have sort of moved to the back burner for now, patrol rifle is the "latest thing".

Right now S&W is the only company that can do that, with their new AR.

SIG will be in a very good position with a rifle, and in a death spiral without.

I predict Glock will have to partner with a rifle company or they will suffer from this too, regardless of how good their product is.

I think you will see that theme at a lot of makers this year at SHOT.

Soooo much money laying out there in Homeland Security.

Civilian sales alone won't cut it.

[NMshooter]

Glock could probably purchase Steyr if they felt like it.

Do not believe they would bother, if they think it is worth the effort they would build their own facilities and develop their own rifle design. Just like they did with the pistol.

Is it worth the capital investment? Well, S&W seems to think so, but I suspect they had a lot of idle manufacturing capacity sitting around and are desperate for the quick buck.

On the other hand, anything other than another AR will sell, at least at first, just because it is different.

Plenty of threads here and elsewhere attest to that.

[Greg Bell]

Glock should buy Steyr. That is a good idea. Just let Steyr be the rifle wing of Glock. After all, Steyr was doing plastic when Glock was making sporks.

[hksw]

Well, that's the SAPR not the 556, ...

Oh yes, well aware it is the 7.62. Although I'll get the 5.56, the 7.62 is what I really want. Hope it come through. Are those M14 mags?

[MatthewVanitas]

Glock should buy Steyr. That is a good idea. Just let Steyr be the rifle wing of Glock. After all, Steyr was doing plastic when Glock was making sporks.

If Glock were to buy Steyr, what rifle would they produce for American LEOs? The AUG, or something entirely new?

-MV

[TexasRifleman]

Oh yes, well aware it is the 7.62. Although I'll get the 5.56, the 7.62 is what I really want. Hope it come through. Are those M14 mags?


Looks like it. That's one good looking rifle huh? I would love to order the SAPR and be done with it.

[BKP99]

In Canada we have access to 'Swissarms' PE90. This is basically a civilian version of the Sig 550. It also comes in 'CQB' 9" barrel, and Carbine 17" barrel and flattop with integral rail. (great with Leupold MkIV 1.5-5 SPR Midrange tactical scope)

The 20" barrel 550 is heavier than an AR15, about 9lbs. This is due to the gas piston and surrounding tube. The carbine is between 7-8lbs. They are not as quick handling as an AR15.

Perks:

1. Very accurate
2. Very reliable...basically the operating system is like an AK47
3. Good sights....Diopter rear, front has a ring around the post.
4. Due to a gas piston system...doesn't 'poop where it eats' like an AR15. The chamber stays clean and cleanup is EASY.

Cons:
1. Heavy
2. magazines have to be 'rocked' into position...like M14.
3. Few accessories...mind you I like plain guns without tons of hardware hanging off the front.
4. Up here at least costs twice as much as an AR15

The US Sig 556...we won't be getting them in Canada due to stupid laws and classification. (556 is 550 derivative...prohibited. Swissarms PE90 (550 clone) was designed as civilian sporting rifle...so legal) Seems like it'll maintain the piston system while giving access to used AR15 mags...sounds like a good mix.

[shattered00]

A thread resuscitated eh?

So did SigSaur ever produce or announce the production of the 550 in the U.S.?

[Surplussoldier]

We have civilian semi-auto Sig rifles in Canada. Compared to the AR, people say they are easier to clean and are often more accurate OOB. Ergonomics may be inferior compared to the AR for some people, however. They certainly are sought after and are generally recognized to be one of the best, if not the best, semi-auto in 5.56.

[Fosbery]

Shoot these all the time in Switzerland. The best non-bullpup self-loading 5.56mm rifle ever IMO (what a mouth full). So the new 7.62mm version will probably be the best self-loading 7.62mm rifle ever too.

They're reliable, incredibly solid and well build, stunningly accurate and I find them very ergonomic too. True they're not as easy to cutomize as an AR, and heavier... but you can just work out more and stop wanting to strap so much rubbish on the end of your rifle.