New funnies from Sportman's Guide:


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hillbilly
January 18, 2006, 10:14 PM
A while back there was a thread about the rather amusing shipping policies of Sportsman's Guide catalog outlet.

In that thread, I took one of SG's catalogs, and did a page-by-page analysis of the "restricted shipping" decisions issued by SG's legal department.

Here's the thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=163122&highlight=sportsmans+guide

Well, I got a new SG shooting supplies catalog today, and noticed some interesting changes.

While the old SG catalog listed several kinds of leather holsters as "restricted shipping" items (see old thread above) apparently the legal eagles of SG have decided to get wild and crazy, and put themselves at extreme risk in this catalog.

I could not find a single holter, leather or otherwise, that is listed as a "restricted shipping" item. Apparently anyone, including residents of MA and convicted felons can now order holsters from SG. My, my....how things change.

However, be relieved that SG's legal deparment is still working overtime to protect SG's corporate butt....uh, I mean uphold state law and be a good corporate citizen.

Here are some highlights of SG's "restricted shipping" items from the latest catalog.

If you live in CA, and want to order the 6.5 hp generator on page 123 of the current SG catalog, sorry, but that item cannot be shipped to CA.

If you want to buy the Swiss bayonet on page 121, but you live in CO, CT, or various counties in CA, sorry, but you are out of luck. SG is doing its part to eliminate drive-by-bayonetings in those jurisdictions.

If live in MA or CA or NYC, you will have to pine away in vain if a Mauser Hinged Trigger Guard is on your wish-list.

If you live in MA or NC, you cannot, under any circumstances order the crossbow listed on page 104 of the catalog. However, if you live in MA or NC, you can order all the crossbow bolts you wish...probably an oversight on the part of SG's legal eagles.:rolleyes:

Laser boresighters are verboten in NYC.

Thompson vertical foregrips are out of the question for residents of MA, CA, and NYC. Got to keep those dangerously-shaped pieces of wood out of the wrong hands, you know.

And finally, in the interest of national security, saving the whales, and preventing the one-world-UN-government consipracy, SG is making sure that none of the crazy residents of MA get their bloody hands on "Realistic Reproduction Japanese Cleaning Rods."

No telling what those insane MA residents might do with an Arisaka cleaning rod, you know.

But I thought you might enjoy the latest from Sportsman's Guide.

hillbilly

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EddieCoyle
January 19, 2006, 12:09 AM
I hate Sportsman's Guide. Hate is a strong word. I still hate it.

beerslurpy
January 19, 2006, 12:30 AM
I hate them except when they have wolf for sale cheap.

cbsbyte
January 19, 2006, 12:39 AM
One wonders why I don't do business with the company any longer. :banghead:

bogie
January 19, 2006, 10:04 AM
Guys, this ain't their fault, and they probably hate it as much as we do...

Just a coupla items...

If you sell a generator (or lawnmower or whatever...) in California, it has to meet CA standards, and be tested, etc... The company obviously decided that it didn't want to go to the trouble of sending out however many FREE devices to be tested, etc...

Some states do now allow knives with two edges - even if one of 'em is a "false" edge. So the company won't ship 'em to those states, so that they don't get gnarsty letters from overzealous prosecutors.

I don't blame 'em.

R.O.F
January 19, 2006, 10:36 AM
Yup, I got bent over not once but twice with AR mags. One steel, and One aluminum. I figured I'd get one of each to see which I liked. Neither!!! both of em failed. I have been looking for an excuse to deny them business.

WillBrayJr
January 19, 2006, 10:50 AM
Terrorist targets are not for sale to anyone with misdemeanor demestic violence or with a history od mental illness. Know what, I still buy them:D What are they going to do after all, check out my medical history.

scout26
January 19, 2006, 12:00 PM
IANAL,NDIPOOT,NDISAAHIELN. * :confused:

Having to comply with at least 50 different state (and in many cases local laws, e.g. Chicago and Cook county) catalog companies are potentially exposed to the prosectutorial whims of the local DA, for violating Paragraph 9 of Subsection 155(a), of The Bugtussle (population 12) Village Code, which clearly states that anything not expressly allowed is unlawful and therefore also illegal.

Which is why a buddy of mine always had me order ammuniton for him from Cheaper then Dirt when I was ordering from them, because they (like many others mail order places) would not ship to Cook County (he lives in the suburbs, not Chicago). And since Gov. "I'm a friend of the Hunter/Sportsman" Blagoevich vetoed the bill last year that would allowed catalog companies to sell to FOID card holders, NO ONE will ship ammo to Illinois residents. :cuss: :fire: :cuss: :fire: So I can only buy ammo (and for the most part reloading supplies) locally. :mad:

Did I ever tell you the story about buying trying to buy 1 bag of #6 shot and some 20 gauge wads, and being refused becaused I didn't have my Illinois FOID card on me ???? (Fortunately my 12 yo daughter was with me and had hers with her.) :banghead: :banghead:

* I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :neener:

Manedwolf
January 19, 2006, 01:55 PM
I hate Sportsman's Guide. Hate is a strong word. I still hate it.

I stopped buying from them when they outright lied that the crappy, ineffective and discontinued "Safety Disc" 12ga shells they were trying to unload were "so effective that the military was now using them!"

Company that made them is gone, website is gone, and ballistics tests showed them to be useless.

It's one thing to lie to sell a product. It's another to lie about a product that can get someone killed when it doesn't work in a self-defense situation it's ostensibly "meant" for. :cuss:

Fudgie Ghost
January 19, 2006, 02:58 PM
They wont ship ANY photo or silhoutte targets to NY State. . .because. . . ? :banghead:

scout26
January 19, 2006, 03:07 PM
Fudgie,

I don't know, but I bet if you check your State and local laws, there's probably something in there.

FWIW, here's a link to JUST the muncipal codes in Illinois regarding firearms. That's 34 towns and villages that have stricter codes then the state (I love home rule....NOT). And a catalog company is legally liaible if they violate one. I not on the lawyers side, but the company does have to CYA.

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/ordinances.cfm

Fudgie Ghost
January 19, 2006, 11:23 PM
Scout: maybe there is, but isn't that the point: How ridiculous is our society where we make a piece of paper illegal? How in the world can a piece of paper with a silhouette or photo be a danger to anyone in any way?

There's the "letter of the law", and "the spirit of the law". Laws make sense. . . if they MAKE SENSE!

Or has Lao-Tse said in 600 BC: "The more restrictive the laws, the poorer the people, the more the laws are in evidence, the more do thieves and robbers abound. . ."

iamkris
January 19, 2006, 11:27 PM
Scout: maybe there is, but isn't that the point: How ridiculous is our society where we make a piece of paper illegal? How in the world can a piece of paper with a silhouette or photo be a danger to anyone in any way?

How is that Sportsman's Guide's fault?

hillbilly
January 19, 2006, 11:32 PM
Scout26, you make a valid point about state and local laws.

But, here's another valid point.

Every single item that SG lists as "restricted shipping" to my own state I can mysteriously, for some reason, purchase by the truckload from several other companies.

None of those other companies that sell knives seem to have troubles shipping large daggers to Arkansas, for example.

Cold Steel can sell big daggers to me. Cheaper Than Dirt can sell big daggers to me. Lots of Ebay stores will sell me big daggers.

But for some reason, SG just can't do it. Big daggers are "restricted shipping" items to Arkansas according to SG.

I bet lots of other companies can and will ship knives to Colorado, for example.

SG won't ship knives to Colorado.

But I'll bet that there are plenty of Ebay stores and catalog places and retail stores that will actually sell and ship the exact same model of knife to Colorado residents that SG apparently refuses to.

Again, SG may have their reasons.

But for lots of products, SG seems to be just about the only seller out there with these particular reasons, whatever they might happen to be.

If I were a betting man (too poor to be one) I would bet good cash money there are at least two or three other stores out there that would happily ship a cleaning rod for a Japanese WWII rifle to MA, for example.

But for some reason, SG just can't seem to do that.

hillbilly

rero360
January 20, 2006, 12:40 PM
heres another really good one, SG will not sell replica firearms, made out of resin, to NY. I mean i could think of some really good training in weapon recognition using these things, it would be more cost effective than using the real guns, like an M2, however I can't because resin guns are big bad and dangerous in NY.

birddog
January 20, 2006, 12:50 PM
I stopped buying from them, despite the bargains, simply due to the Nazi Paraphernalia. The "We Don't Endorse This (But we'll take your money for it)" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not worth some cheap Wolf ammo.

And for those who are going to say the stuff is collectible and therefore acceptable.......I have no response. :(

Personal opinion.

Manedwolf
January 20, 2006, 01:23 PM
I stopped buying from them, despite the bargains, simply due to the Nazi Paraphernalia. The "We Don't Endorse This (But we'll take your money for it)" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's not worth some cheap Wolf ammo.

And for those who are going to say the stuff is collectible and therefore acceptable.......I have no response. :(

Personal opinion.

I can see people liking the machinery. The engineering of German weapons, aircraft, and mechanized armor was amazing, especially aircraft like the Me-262 jet fighter (of which there are now some amazing exact replicas flying, see stormbirds.com) and Gotha-229 flying wing.

But that's simple engineering. I can't fathom why any sane, right-minded individual other than on a movie set would ever want to engage in the symbology of putting on a replica SS uniform. :barf:

Manedwolf
January 20, 2006, 01:27 PM
heres another really good one, SG will not sell replica firearms, made out of resin, to NY. I mean i could think of some really good training in weapon recognition using these things, it would be more cost effective than using the real guns, like an M2, however I can't because resin guns are big bad and dangerous in NY.

The one resin replica I've seen for sale that strikes me as a Bad Idea to have these days is one from cheaperthandirt. A 1:1 resin replica of a Soviet RPG-7, complete with a removeable grenade...and not a blue-colored one, either.

That seems like that'd be a good way to get woken up by FBI, CIA, SWAT, etc...if a neighbor caught a glimpse of it.

scout26
January 20, 2006, 03:06 PM
Hillbilly,

First the disclaimer. I do not work, nor have I ever worked for SG. I've never ordered from them and heck, until this post, I've never heard of them.


But, here's another valid point.

Every single item that SG lists as "restricted shipping" to my own state I can mysteriously, for some reason, purchase by the truckload from several other companies.

None of those other companies that sell knives seem to have troubles shipping large daggers to Arkansas, for example.

Cold Steel can sell big daggers to me. Cheaper Than Dirt can sell big daggers to me. Lots of Ebay stores will sell me big daggers.

But for some reason, SG just can't do it. Big daggers are "restricted shipping" items to Arkansas according to SG.

I don't know. Maybe there's one (or more) town(s) in your state that has a "No Sharp, Pointy Things" law on it's books ??? It probably easier to say, we won't ship to X state, then to say, we can't ship to Hooterville, but Bugtussle which is the neighboring community is okay, but Hicksville, down the road is out.

In Illinois even before the veto of "I'm a law-abiding citizen with a FOID card, may I please buy some ammo law." There were several mail order firms (including some in Illinois) that would not ship to Illinois, because of the confusing laws here.

Like I said I'm not defending them, just trying to explain why they might not want to/be able to sell various items in your state.

Scout: maybe there is, but isn't that the point: How ridiculous is our society where we make a piece of paper illegal? How in the world can a piece of paper with a silhouette or photo be a danger to anyone in any way?

Illegal in Illinois too. Probably something to do with premediated murder and assassinations. We kicked a guy out of my club for shooting a picture of "A Certain Elected Offical". The various state and federal LE agencies would not have found those items humourous. Now we can shoot at pictures of zombies, aliens, dinosaurs (purple and otherwise) and standard LE "BG in ski mask" and black silhoutte targets.

Once again, not defending SG, as I've never done business with them, just trying to explain why they might or might not ship certain items to certain states/areas.

QuickDraw
January 20, 2006, 10:20 PM
I just got the latest catalog on Monday.
I was all excited,headed for the "reading room".
What a disappointment! I thought it was Cabela's
or someone else.
They won't ship 90% of the things in that catalog
to California.I don't know why they even send me one,
I've never bought from them.:confused:

QuickDraw

CAnnoneer
January 20, 2006, 10:37 PM
I can see how some of their business practices are unacceptable, while certain products are of questionable nature for various reasons, but criticizing them for following the idiotic state laws is uncalled for. If they get busted for breaking a local law, are you going to pay their fines or do their time?

Btw, they seem to have some good deals on ammo, especially milsurp. Also, if I lived in a cold state, I'd probably pick up some of their new warm clothing, because it is several times cheaper than civilian alternatives.

The_Antibubba
January 21, 2006, 01:08 AM
I live in Sacramento. For some reason they will no longer sell to that city. Nobody else has a problem with it.

As for the generator, my money says it was a two-stroke. 2-strokes are not allowed to be sold in CA due to pollution regs. Boats, gennies, scooters-have to be 4-stroke or diesel.

Hillbilly, you forgot the night-vision restriction-SG won't sell to CA.

Birddog, I am 150% with you on the Nazi memorabilia. The thing is, if it were real, I'd probably not have a problem; it's historical. But all of their Nazi stuff is REPRODUCTION!!! It's fake-manufactured only for sale. They seem to have a special attraction to the SS, and SS uniforms.

1 old 0311
January 21, 2006, 08:53 AM
Bottom line? They probably got their ass in legal trouble with some bogus local law. Now they are trying to cover all the bases. Remember Cheech and Chong? Tommy Chong was selling water pipes in California (legal.) Some guy from Misouri ordered one (illegal in THIS TOWN in Misouri not the whole State.) Chong went to prison for one year. LAWYERS, LAWYERS, LAWYERS.

Kevin

Don Gwinn
January 21, 2006, 09:22 AM
Has anybody posting on this thread called or mailed Sportsman's Guide to see what they have to say about this?

Tim Burke
January 21, 2006, 09:43 AM
Has anybody posting on this thread called or mailed Sportsman's Guide to see what they have to say about this?I haven't bothered, since I know that NC requires a permit to purchase to buy a cross bow... but not bolts. It seems pretty clear to me that SG is making an effort to comply with the patchwork system of laws that cover the country. Does it look silly? It has to, because most of the the laws are silly. Are they doing a perfect job? There's no way to do a perfect job... there are too many silly laws out there to get them all right. Are they erring on the side of caution? Well, that is the nature of most legal departments.

hso
January 21, 2006, 09:44 AM
Has anybody posting on this thread called or mailed Sportsman's Guide to see what they have to say about this?

Probably can't be bothered to leave the gossip fence to ask them:banghead:

If Ronnie Barret is a hero for saying he won't sell to Cali because of their stupid laws it seems odd that SG is some sort of low life scum for also not selling where there are stupid laws making it illegal to sell/purchase/own something perfectly normal that would get them charged by some dumbass DA.:rolleyes:

You got a problem with not being able to get something from them because of where you live, wear out the SOB politician that's responsible instead of the easy whipping boy that tells you "Hey, they won't let me sell it to you".

answerguy
January 21, 2006, 10:50 AM
My first thought was banning real photo targets of individuals was dumb

Illegal in Illinois too. Probably something to do with premediated murder and assassinations. We kicked a guy out of my club for shooting a picture of "A Certain Elected Offical". The various state and federal LE agencies would not have found those items humourous. Now we can shoot at pictures of zombies, aliens, dinosaurs (purple and otherwise) and standard LE "BG in ski mask" and black silhoutte targets.

but this seems to cross the line.

answerguy
January 21, 2006, 10:57 AM
If Ronnie Barret is a hero for saying he won't sell to Cali because of their stupid laws it seems odd that SG is some sort of low life scum for also not selling where there are stupid laws making it illegal to sell/purchase/own something perfectly normal that would get them charged by some dumbass DA.:rolleyes:


Good point. And furthermore SG is being beat up for not selling items (photo targets) and selling items (nazi stuff) at the same time.

QuickDraw
January 21, 2006, 05:10 PM
Has anybody posting on this thread called or mailed Sportsman's Guide to see what they have to say about this?

I called them once to order something,I can't remember what,ammo I think.Anyway the lady said
"sorry,can't ship to Ca.,Marin county".
I said Midway has no problem.
She said "Our attorneys blah,blah ,blah,
our board of directors,blah,blah,blah.
I said fine,remove my name from your mailing list.
If your going to be a scardy cat,I'll take my bu$ine$$
else where.
I still get the catalogs.
Maybe they will go broke from sending out catalogs
that people can't buy from. :neener:


QuickDraw

QuickDraw
January 21, 2006, 05:23 PM
Probably can't be bothered to leave the gossip fence to ask them:banghead:

If Ronnie Barret is a hero for saying he won't sell to Cali because of their stupid laws it seems odd that SG is some sort of low life scum for also not selling where there are stupid laws making it illegal to sell/purchase/own something perfectly normal that would get them charged by some dumbass DA.:rolleyes:

You got a problem with not being able to get something from them because of where you live, wear out the SOB politician that's responsible instead of the easy whipping boy that tells you "Hey, they won't let me sell it to you".

The problem here is that a lot of other companys
have no problem taking my money.Only SG.
They qoute laws that aren't on the books.Its just that
they MIGHT get in trouble.Its perfectly legal to buy ammo online,have it delivered to my door in my county.Do it all the time.
I would think that some of the other online gun accessory stores have legal departments also.They don't see any problems.
I won't buy anything from them.Sorry,thats how I
feel.

QuickDraw

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