[Roudy]

Just finished watching CSI: New York and part of the plot included a handgun that was in the proximity of an MRI machine. In the story the handgun was magnetized which is plausable, but the bullets were also magnatized! Now the bullets (38 special) were somewhat mushroomed implying that they were made of lead or copper jacketed lead.

My understanding of meterology, while minimal, is that both lead and copper are non-ferrous metals and do not retain a magnetic charge.

I know that this is a fictional story, but with all the high tech data one would think that something this fundemental would not miss the editing of a firearms technician.

Is it possible for lead or copper/lead bullets to become and remain magnetized?

[blackhawk2000]

CSI gets their gun facts wrong all the time. All the time.

[mnrivrat]

Is it possible for lead or copper/lead bullets to become and remain magnetized?

NO !

[DaFettMan]

meterology, while minimal, is that...
Wouldn't that be metallurgy?

[Jim K]

As I said on another thread, everything on CSI is real - real bullhockey. The research is almost as bad as the acting.

Jim

[geekWithA.45]

Magnetized lead bullets: It entirely depends on whether or not the inverse tachyon generator was in the correct subspace phase alignment or not. You know how it is. Just tweak the omichron level a bit, and the laws of physics go poof.

:neener:

[gremlin_bros]

hey geek dont forget about the hyper drive booster has to be set to double negative to get the correct field sync

[.45&TKD]

No, you need to take the Heizenberg Compensators off-line!

[John G]

I can't believe you guys. You forgot the cardinal rule: "Reverse the polarity."

(and don't cross the streams)

[Roudy]

DaFettMan metallurgy is correct. Thanks!

During the show there were several camera shots showing two recovered bullets being attracted toward each other, this was not just a slip. Someone actually beleived that lead and copper could be magnetized. Then proceeded to build it into the story line.:barf:

Wonder how many ammunition dealers are going to get requests for "Magnetic Bullets" in the next few days!!!!!!!!:neener:

[ceetee]

"Magnetic Bullets" are those .50 cal ones that are specially made to attract themselves to metal things like engine blocks and such... It's a big Army secret and stuff...

[ScottsGT]

Maybe they got too close to the Flux Capacitor?

[Double Naught Spy]

Non-ferrous metals such as lead or copper can most definitely be influenced by magnetic fields when they are molten, but not magnetized and not after being solid. In fact, magnetic fields are using in some manufacturing processes to help align the composition in a specific manner, such as with some plastics, but obviously the plastic does not become magnetized.

[Jim Watson]

I was wondering why the magnetism was going to fade out in six hours, too.

[stevelyn]

Yup. They tend to shoot to the North though.:neener:

[Essex County]

Ignorance has again raised it' ugly head...........Essex

[49hudson]

Maybe the bullets had a steel jacket, like a lot Russian ammo.
Bi-metal jackets usually have a copper coated steel jacket and a lead core.
I don't know if you can magnetize them, but you can pick them up with a magnet.

[rockstar.esq]

Maybe the bullets had a steel jacket, like a lot Russian ammo.
Bi-metal jackets usually have a copper coated steel jacket and a lead core.
I don't know if you can magnetize them, but you can pick them up with a magnet.

Your point is valid and IF there is a CSI researcher they might have noted this and assumed steel jacketed bullets were loaded in all calibers. Not to mention the common verbage of "Full metal jacket" which is absolutely accurate however it's not enough to assume which metal is used! Sad to say but a great many folks I know think it's magic when I see a bullet and define it as rifle or handgun.

[Dave Markowitz]

Magnetized lead bullets: It entirely depends on whether or not the inverse tachyon generator was in the correct subspace phase alignment or not. You know how it is. Just tweak the omichron level a bit, and the laws of physics go poof.

"Captain, I am detecting large quantities of boguson particles."

;)

[MSGT9410]

"Magnetic Bullets" are those .50 cal ones that are specially made to attract themselves to metal things like engine blocks and such... It's a big Army secret and stuff...

And 747s. :neener:

[redneck2]

I can't believe you guys. You forgot the cardinal rule: "Reverse the polarity."

Heck, all you have to do is hold the magnet upside down

[azredhawk44]

Maybe the bullets had a steel jacket, like a lot Russian ammo.
Bi-metal jackets usually have a copper coated steel jacket and a lead core.
I don't know if you can magnetize them, but you can pick them up with a magnet.

+1 to this.

Not just russian stuff, too. Sometimes happens with Sellier & Bellot, I've heard that Fiocchi and Magtech can be suspect too.

Lotsa ranges will check your ammo if they suspect a steel jacket, and they use a magnet to do it. I've seen bullets detected by this.

:evil: Oh, and Chewie...Better replace the negative power coupling.:evil:

[Working Man]

But don't cross the streams! :what:

[Jim Bell]

In the presence of a strong magnetic field even copper becomes magnetic. It doesn't stay magnetized when the field is removed like steel will do.
I have seen bussbars carrying 1200 amps at low voltage In a copper leach plant exibit such a strong magnetic field that you could not carry a tool box past them without the tool box pulling over to the buss. It was hell on wrist watches.
Read the other thread on this subject.
Jim

[Peter M. Eick]

I agree with Jim (posted above). Most materials ARE magnetic or anti-magnetic under strong EM fields. Very few things are truly passive. At the right frequencies under even low powered (12 V, 1 Amp) fields, most general plastics can be made to exhibit a detectable magnetic field response.

Is it magnetic like a nail or a vice? No, but then again I did not see the show or what they were trying to do.

My bet is if you put it into a spinner magnetometer it would have a pretty good moment and it would have a reasonablly susceptibility in an AF Susceptibility bridge.

If questions like this keep coming up, I am going to have to set up my bridge and spinner just to give you guys some real numbers.

[benEzra]

In the presence of a strong magnetic field even copper becomes magnetic. It doesn't stay magnetized when the field is removed like steel will do.
I have seen bussbars carrying 1200 amps at low voltage In a copper leach plant exibit such a strong magnetic field that you could not carry a tool box past them without the tool box pulling over to the buss. It was hell on wrist watches.
Read the other thread on this subject.
Jim
That's not the copper being magnetized; that's the direct field created by the moving electrons themselves.

Paramagnetism, diamagnetism, and ferromagnetism are properties of atoms, but you don't need atoms to create a magnetic field, just moving charged particles. Any electrical current, even one flowing through a vacuum, creates a magnetic field.

[Jim Bell]

Hi Peter, Thanks.
I think what happens is the magnetic field sets up Eddy currents when make the non ferrous object appear magnetic. I think the same principle is used in the latest type of metal detectors.

[bowfin]

/*CSI gets their gun facts wrong all the time. All the time.*/

I second that assertation. I about lost it when they found potato on a bullet that was picked up at the muzzle, and then hitchhiked a ride, hanging on despite centrifugal force of the spin of the bullet and the impact into a body.

[hksw]

Hmm, I've never seen an episode of CSI but I think it might worth watching now simply for amusement in their parallel universe view of pseudoscience. I like a good laugh.

[thegodmanson]

ok Nosler and Win. put out a bullet for a while called "Fail safe" it had at 1 point 2 steel cups inside. Its a rifle bullet but maybe that was it :) LOL

[cracked butt]

I saw an episode of 'House' that had a far better grasp on the science of the MRI machine than CSI ever will. In the episode a prison inmate with lots of tatoos was put in an MRI knowing full well that it would be extremely painful because of the ferrous inks used in the tattoos.

[Mad Chemist]

Non-ferrous metals such as lead or copper can most definitely be influenced by magnetic fields when they are molten, but not magnetized and not after being solid. In fact, magnetic fields are using in some manufacturing processes to help align the composition in a specific manner, such as with some plastics, but obviously the plastic does not become magnetized.

To put a fine point on it, polar organic molecules can be oriented with magnetic fields during synthesis but not magnetized. In effect, they are manipulated by the field but it does not alter the electro-chemical properties of these monomers/polymers.

My favorite CSI BS scene is when the extremely hot detective is applying large amounts of luminol to a crime scene while wearing a tank-top. In reality this requires hazmat gear. I guess it's hard to show off your cleavage while wearing a moon suit.:D

JH

[Double Naught Spy]

Fine points are fine when they fill in gaps, clarify, or correct inaccuracies. They help the learning process.