Constitutional Law


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Bartholomew Roberts
January 19, 2006, 01:12 AM
Guess what they teach about the Second Amendment in Constitutional Law (specifically Constitutional Law as taught by Dean of Stanford Law School Kathleen Sullivan)?

Nothing. The only time the Second Amendment is mentioned anywhere in the entire 1600+ page textbook is in the copy of the Bill of Rights printed in the appendix. Otherwise it isn't even listed in the index... and this in a major law school textbook written by the dean of a prominent national law school (though apparently she has a little difficulties with the bar exam (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05340/618227.stm).)

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beerslurpy
January 19, 2006, 01:17 AM
The CA bar exam is supposedly really hard. But yeah, obviously there is something amiss when you can miss 10% of the bill of rights.

Standing Wolf
January 19, 2006, 01:25 AM
Maybe they're hoping if they ignore it long enough, it'll go away.

CAS700850
January 19, 2006, 09:25 AM
My Constitutional LAw professor explained it like this:

The Second Amendment is a matter of much philosophical and historical debate as to its implications regarding the rights of the individual versus the rights of the collective. While we could spend a semester debating its merits one way or the other, it would be of little service to you in preparing for a Bar exam or a career, as it has very rarely been an issue before any courts, though a great issue for the media. The Third Amendment is of even less value to you, as it isn't even debated.

And, that was it. As much as I would have enjoyed the debates and arguments, he had a point. And, if I look back on that day in terms of a customer paying for teh class, I appreciate that decision.

El Tejon
January 19, 2006, 09:32 AM
It was brought up once in Professor Nahmod's Con Law class at Chicago-Kent, but in the context of the Big Hammer of Government (Commerce Clause) by some tall guy from Indiana, who is pretty certain he got an "A-" instead of an "A" for that exchange.:D

beerslurpy
January 19, 2006, 09:42 AM
Professors can just mark you down because you pissed them off?

geekWithA.45
January 19, 2006, 10:11 AM
No surprise. I've grepped entire thousand page American history books, with similiar results. Mention of 2A, or the right of arms, at best, is either relegated to a short paragraph noting its controversial nature.

El Tejon
January 19, 2006, 11:41 AM
beer, not according to policy.;)

xd9fan
January 19, 2006, 02:34 PM
Maybe they're hoping if they ignore it long enough, it'll go away.


yep....its by design that they ignore it, prevert it, and dont teach its meaning.

Cindog
January 19, 2006, 03:55 PM
yep....its by design that they ignore it, prevert it, and dont teach its meaning.
Do you care to elaborate on that one? Or do you really believe that the deans of every law school get together in some sort of secret conspiracy to set their law school's curiculum agreeing not to cover the Second Amendment? :rolleyes: CAS700850's explanantion is exactly why the Second Amendment, and numerous other Amendments, are not covered in Con Law.

USMCRotrHed
January 19, 2006, 04:01 PM
I think law school would take much longer than 3 years if they had to cover every possible law.

My impression was that law school taught students how to research the law, think about and present the law, interpret case law, and navigate the legal system as well as how to bill clients.

Armed with a proper education out of law school a student should be able to look at any legal matter, research any case law on that subject, and argue that point in court using the skills they learned, regardless of whether that specific subject was covered in class.

Henry Bowman
January 19, 2006, 04:07 PM
as well as how to bill clients.Law school specifically does NOT teach this. It would sully their ivory towers. Billing skills come from "on the job" training.:evil:

USMCRotrHed
January 19, 2006, 05:15 PM
It may not be as direct, but the law school catalog I am looking at right now shows a class titled "Law Office Management"

Here is the course description:

The focus of this course is on the organizing, marketing and management of a law practice with emphasis on solo practice and small firm. This course assists students in determining their compatibility with solo practice and its demands. It develops an awareness of the requirements of setting up and running a law practice and the costs associated with operating a law practice. Each student is required to produce a business plan. The course combines lectures (including from outside speakers) and class discussion. The course focuses on the business and practical side of law practice. The course grade is based on attendance, class participation, assignments and the final paper, which is a financial plan for an initial one-year period. The course covers introduction to the practice of law, law firm organization, legal fees, planning and marketing, administrative systems and procedures, financial management, and technology in the law office.

If they don't cover how to invoice a client for your services, I'd be a little upset due to the high cost of tuition. That is basic financial management.

RealGun
January 19, 2006, 07:01 PM
Maybe it's so simple that you don't need a textbook to tell you what it means. You would only need a book to learn how to work around it.

Father Knows Best
January 19, 2006, 07:25 PM
Law schools don't try to teach you what the law "is." They teach you how to find the law, how to think and communicate about it, and how to advocate for your clients. Even if it was possible to teach what the law "is", that information would be obsolete before you got out of law school. The law is constantly evolving.

And Constitutional Law is a huge topic. You can spend a lifetime studying just U.S. Constitutional law. In an intro Con law course, it makes sense to take a few "big issues" on which the entire foundation of our legal system rests and spend the semester trying to understand them by looking at the long history of those issues in the courts. That includes things like separation of powers, the commerce clause and the limited role of the federal government, etc. It also includes those Amendments that have had a large impact on the law, such as the 1st and 14th. Since there is so little jurisprudence on the 2nd Amendment, and it touches so little else in its application, it makes little sense to study it in a Con law overview. It would be kind of like taking an introductory science class in college and complaining that they didn't teach you about the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. It may be a big, important idea, but you can get to that in later courses.

Law School is three years. After your mandatory first year courses, including Constitutional Law, you get to take two years of electives. If you want to study the 2nd Amendment, that's your opportunity.

liberty911
January 19, 2006, 07:40 PM
Guess what they teach about the Second Amendment in Constitutional Law . . . The only time the Second Amendment is mentioned anywhere in the entire 1600+ page textbook is in the copy of the Bill of Rights printed in the appendix. Otherwise it isn't even listed in the index...

Not to toot my own horn, but I passed the CA bar exam on the first try. :neener: It is THE most difficult test I had ever taken. The 2nd is taught in law school to the extent it may be regulared by the commerce class. The specifics of the 2nd are not, because as mentioned before, the 2nd Amendment is of little use in understanding the legal analysis required to pass the bar exam. It is what it is. Aside form a passing mention at being part of the Bill of Rights, it was not taught in my CA law school.

I am currently studying to take the Florida bar exam. (I'm ditching CA and moving to to FL on May 1.) Apparently the memory of the CA bar exam has faded to the extent I am willing to go through a second bar exam. All that is mentioned in the bar prep materials I obtained for Florida is that the 2nd has been explicitly incorporated into the Florida Constitution and I need to know that. There is really not much more to know about it. It is what it is. I just wish the anti's would realize that and stop trying to confuse the issue.

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