Bulletproof


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TaurusPT945
January 19, 2006, 03:39 PM
What caliber of gun can pass through a bulletproof vehicle? I was in a gun show this weekend (I live in the Far East by the way) and in one of the stalls, bulletproof is offered to cars and SUVs. A sample was displayed using an M-16 Armalite. The best that the M-16 can do is to crack the windows and create and hole in the doors. But it did not pass through. I don't know how far it was shot though.

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P95Carry
January 19, 2006, 03:59 PM
It's less caliber per se than nature and velocity of projectile IMO.

A 50 cal will do a pretty good job on some light armor and if an AP round probably defeat some quite significant armoring.

Ultra high velocity sabotted rounds with a high density penetrator can defeat a lot of so called armor but the companies making these vehicles probably design for average rather than extreme.

Average I am including to be std .223, .308 ball ammo etc.

Some of our mil' members may well be able to give more precise details on selected rounds.

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On consideration this is better in general guns - as we are talking rifle probably as much or more than any handgun.

MD_Willington
January 19, 2006, 05:34 PM
If it is bullet proof then none, if it is bullet resistant then there are several that will... Both are used to mean the same, when they do not mean the same.

MD

Taurus 66
January 19, 2006, 06:30 PM
There is no such thing as "bullet proof", since all the various types and thicknesses of armor can be defeated by specifically designed ammunitions. The term "bullet proof vest" is over rating. "Bullet resistant-armor" or " -body armor" is the right way to go.

What caliber of gun can pass through a bulletproof vehicle? I was in a gun show this weekend (I live in the Far East by the way) and in one of the stalls, bulletproof is offered to cars and SUVs. A sample was displayed using an M-16 Armalite. The best that the M-16 can do is to crack the windows and create and hole in the doors. But it did not pass through. I don't know how far it was shot though.

You are wanting to know if just any conventional ammo can go through, right? I've seen tests performed on the windshield of an SUV. Their weapon to test the glass was a 300 Win Mag, which is a wee bit (:rolleyes: ) more powerful than the 5.56. Three consecutive rounds did not penetrate the windshield at 50 yards, though it was messed up pretty good.

drinks
January 19, 2006, 10:55 PM
I cannot remember where it was posted, but two older gentlemen set up a "Box of Truth", or some such, shot all sorts of calibers.
The boards, concrete blocks, pieces of dry wall and concrete panels stopped much, but cast bullets in .45-70 at 1500 + - fps went through most everything, it is not just 'lb of energy, but mass and momentum that do work.
:D :eek:

jd25q
January 19, 2006, 11:08 PM
Why do we answer these types of questions? This guy, who claims to be from the "far east", asks what will penetrate armored vehicles. We line up to answer it. We are at war! Come on.

I don't know the guy any more than you. Perhaps he's one of our guys, maybe not. That could be the case whether he says he's from the far east or from Texas.

P95Carry
January 19, 2006, 11:13 PM
I don't think by making generalizations as comments we are exactly ''fuelling the fire'' - if such were a risk.

I am taking ''far east'' to mean eastern seaboard of US. Nothing has been said which particularly gives any game away! Heck - there are countless web sites where such info could be found - with enough digging!

;) :)

xd45gaper
January 19, 2006, 11:26 PM
RPG's will do a number on them :D

multiple shots from a large caliber into the glass will eventually cause the glass to fail then you are screweed.

they had a good show on the discovery channel about how they build and test armored cars the largest caliber bullet they use to shoot the doors and glass with is a 308 so im sure if someone had a large hunting caliber it would prolly go threw and kill you.

also a side note they dont make "bulletproof" cars they are made to be bullet resistent to provide you with a tempory oppurtunity to get away from the shooters. if you want bullet proof buy a tank! ;)

rero360
January 20, 2006, 12:32 AM
ssshhhhhh...... don't want the bad guys to see this!

(adjusts custom made tin foil hat, with seran rap liner to keep my mind fresh)

Janitor
January 20, 2006, 12:40 AM
What caliber of gun can pass through a bulletproof vehicle?
That depends.

How would the gun be launched? :cool:

rwc
January 20, 2006, 01:49 AM
multiple shots from a large caliber into the glass will eventually cause the glass to fail then you are screweed.



This is how Col. Rowe died in the Philippines if I recall correctly. They ambushed his car and then "drilled" through the glass with a rifle until it gave way.

Rem700SD
January 20, 2006, 05:33 AM
It's all a matter of how much armor vs. how much bullet. Armor varies, and bullets/calibres can vary by situation. It's my guess that one will armour their vehicle to the estimated threat.

Mad Chemist
January 20, 2006, 05:56 AM
I bet a well-selected .300 Win mag would penetrate the glass.

TaurusPT945
January 20, 2006, 10:22 AM
Why do we answer these types of questions? This guy, who claims to be from the "far east", asks what will penetrate armored vehicles. We line up to answer it. We are at war! Come on.

I don't know the guy any more than you. Perhaps he's one of our guys, maybe not. That could be the case whether he says he's from the far east or from Texas.

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate it!

Majority of gun owners in the world bought the firearm for security purposes. Does having a firearm assure you of safety? Well, maybe, but not 100%. Having a gun will mean that you have to fire back to your assailants to be able to defend yourself and your loved ones. Even the best shooters will have a hard time shooting for reasons that they are aiming for a moving target and adrenalin is pumping. Needless to say that there are many factors to consider in an attempt to succesfully defend ourselves over an armed perpetrator.

Having a bulletproof vechicle, though expensive, will most likely save our lives better than having a firearm. We can hide inside tha car, lock the doors and dial the emergency number. Or we can escape without worrying about gun shots. Safety comes with a price!

I'm an asian guy. That's what I meant when I said 'I'm from the Far East.'

TexasRifleman
January 20, 2006, 10:58 AM
( with saran rap liner to keep my mind fresh)


Hey! That's a good idea! I never thought of adding that feature...

Be right back....... :evil:

bogie
January 20, 2006, 11:06 AM
Owning (and training to use...) a gun won't make you bulletproof. But it can be a highly discouraging factor to someone who is attempting to harm you. An armored or bullet-resistant (I hate the term "bulletproof") vehicle may help a little in the event of random fire, but if someone really wants to punch holes, they'll likely punch holes.

jd25q
January 20, 2006, 11:52 AM
ssshhhhhh...... don't want the bad guys to see this!

(adjusts custom made tin foil hat, with seran rap liner to keep my mind fresh)

Funny, particularly considering the number of "end of the world as we know it" posts on this forum. And I'm paranoid. Face it, there are people in another part of this world plotting and planning to kill our soldiers right now. They gather intelligence. Why do we have to make it so easy?

Justin
January 20, 2006, 01:19 PM
Yes, because Hong Kong is a freakin' hive of scum and villany.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29698&stc=1

VinnyT
January 20, 2006, 01:25 PM
I heard Lorcin .380's can go thru bulletproof glass. Hear that terrorists, buy ALL the Lorcin .380's you can!!!:p

Lucky
January 20, 2006, 07:25 PM
I cannot remember where it was posted, but two older gentlemen set up a "Box of Truth", or some such, shot all sorts of calibers.
The boards, concrete blocks, pieces of dry wall and concrete panels stopped much, but cast bullets in .45-70 at 1500 + - fps went through most everything, it is not just 'lb of energy, but mass and momentum that do work.
:D :eek:

yea my understanding is that it's not velocity, but 'Momentum Density' which is the main factor in penetration. Momentum doesn't give an exponential multiplier to velocity, so this is why they can drop bombs from airplanes that fall slower than a bullet, but will punch through several feet of concrete.


You are wanting to know if just any conventional ammo can go through, right? I've seen tests performed on the windshield of an SUV. Their weapon to test the glass was a 300 Win Mag, which is a wee bit ( ) more powerful than the 5.56. Three consecutive rounds did not penetrate the windshield at 50 yards, though it was messed up pretty good.

Yea, I think that's where bullet construction comes into play. Ironically high velocity could be a bad thing for your bullet, because if it's not specially designed it could be far more damaged on impact than a bullet with the same momentum density travelling at slower speeds. Lead bullets tear themselves apart, as you know, when they are exposed to strong forces. But if that bullet you saw had been made out copper of brass or bronze, I doubt the windshield would have withstood even 1 shot.

Aiui a common standard is to upgrade a vehicle to be resistant to multiple shots from 7.62x39 Armour Piercing. If you don't want that standard then just get 'handgun threats' armour. There's obviously no point in getting armour designed to resist only rifle bullets, if there are armour-piercing bullets available.

strambo
January 20, 2006, 08:23 PM
Car armor is like body armor, different ratings. The purpose is not to protect you like a tank, the purpose is to buy an extra few seconds to "Get off the X" as they say in the high risk security biz.

If your biggest threat is a carjacking you can have a laminate applied to your windows that is shatter resistant. Low cost, negligible weight penalty. If you are in a very high threat area you can get armor that will stop major caliber AP rounds (for a while) and be somewhat blast resistant. This comes at a huge weight and cost penalty. There is everything in between these extremes.

Major auto companies are starting to offer factory armored cars. Cadillac has a "protection series" sedan DeVille that has all the armored bells and whistles for about $135,000 new. I've seen one of the first ones, great car and a good price since getting the same level done aftermarket would be about $100,000 plus base car price.

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