What would happen if you stuck a wooden dowel down the barrel of a gun and fired it?


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jamz
January 19, 2006, 07:06 PM
Say, a gun with a 4 or 6 inch barrel- slide a 1/4 inch wooden dowel down it until it rests in the cavity of a HP bullet. Fire it- what would happen? Would it slow the bullet enough to bulge the barrel? Would it fire but shatter the wood?

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Werewolf
January 19, 2006, 07:33 PM
Try it.

Let us know how it works out. :evil:

SJPrice
January 19, 2006, 07:37 PM
Okay, who said there were no dumb questions?

1 old 0311
January 19, 2006, 07:37 PM
Give it 2 days...........Somebody will do it and post a picture


Kevin

newfalguy101
January 19, 2006, 07:38 PM
if its sitting in/on the bullet when fired, it should just shoot out.

if its actually above the bullet, when fired it could, I suppose cause a bulge, but I doubt it.

This is of course all THEORY as I havent and have no intention of putting a stick in my barrel and shooting it out.

Might be fun to watch though :evil: :neener:

Archie
January 19, 2006, 07:45 PM
Doing this increases the projectile weight by the weight of the stick. This causes increased resistance to movement and therefore increased pressure inside the burn chamber of the case. (Don't look for that term anywhere, I just made it up; hopefully most everyone understands what I mean.)

Depending on what caliber we're talking about in the first place, this means the payload could be tripled, perhaps more. I've forgotten the formulae involved, but that substantially jacks up pressure.

This may not blow up the gun, but it's not going to help, either. Probably end up with a 'proof test' load, anyway. Probably a cratered or blown primer and the case beat bad.

Because your stick is a fixed weight, it will affect guns with smaller weight projectiles more. A 9x19 will be severly overloaded, a .50 BMG will have some increase, but perhaps not a dangerous level, and a 155 mm howitzer wouldn't notice at all.

I think Werewolf was being facetious when he suggested you try it and report. I would recomend against such an experiment. But if you must, tie the gun to a tire or something, fire it with a long string, wear safety glasses and take along a movie camera of some type to record the experiement for later review. You may want to take along a large box to collect and transport what's left of the gun, too.

Hkmp5sd
January 19, 2006, 07:51 PM
Myth Busters did a test of the myth of sticking your finger in the end of a barrel and shooting it. Didn't bulge the barrel. They wedged wood in the barrel, jammed the barrel in the ground and even welded a plug in the barrel before they got it to bulge. A loose fitting dowel would just shoot out the barrel.

Archie
January 19, 2006, 08:03 PM
Myth Busters ... test[ed] ... the myth of ... finger in the ... barrel and shooting it. Didn't bulge the barrel. ... wedged wood ... jammed ... in the ground ... welded a plug in the barrel before they got it to bulge. A loose fitting dowel would just shoot out the barrel.HK, do you recall what sort of gun(s) and what caliber(s) they tested? Did they examine the spent case or attach a pressure guage or anything of that nature?

newfalguy101
January 19, 2006, 08:16 PM
Not HK but I did see that episode

The first gun was a shotgun, and it DID bulge the very end of the barrel with the "finger", by contrast the welded up end didnt do squat, rather dissapointing.

The second was a ( I believe) Carcano rifle, into which they drove a lead ball from the MUZZLE end to simulate a stuck bullet, as I recall it didnt do anything visible, I would bet my eye teeth, that the barrel was bulged.

They were looking for the cartoon effect ie... the barrel to split into several pieces from muzzle to receiver, ergo they didnt test any pressures etc....

Sean85746
January 19, 2006, 08:22 PM
.

Chipperman
January 19, 2006, 08:23 PM
The initial testing was a 12g shotgun. They made an artifical hand and stuck the finger in the barrel a la Bugs Bunny to see what happened. The hand was blown away with no damage to the shotgun. Then in Mythbusters typical fashion, they tried to do what they could to cause damage to the gun.

Hkmp5sd
January 19, 2006, 08:24 PM
Don't remember the exact test...here's their official myth and result:

A shotgun plugged by a human finger will backfire and explode injuring or killing the shooter instead of the intended victim.

In two tests, one done with a thin finger the other with a thicker finger, both test hands were completely obliterated by the shotgun blast. Neither had the volume or strength needed to plug the barrel to create enough pressure to cause it to explode. Even under ridiculous circumstances like having the barrel clogged with dirt, being sealed off by a 4 inch spike welded into the barrel and by being blocked by a squibed round, the gun still didn't explode. The best results seen were minor deformations in the gun barrel.

Episode 43
November 16, 2005

Slip Shooter
January 19, 2006, 08:38 PM
This is a true story!

Many years ago I owned a T/C .45 cal muzzle loader, as well as the T/C Seneca .36 Cal. While at the range, along with other muzzle loading enthusiast, I fired my ram rod away while shooting the .45. BiGGG recoil was my first indicator then I noticed the lock was cocked from the back pressure. Lots of laughs down th line..... humiliating!

Well, to make a stupid trick take hold, the following fall I was Squirrel hunting and spotted a nice grey squirrel on a limb about 50 yards away. Knowing I could take the critter at that distance I raised the Seneca .36 and fired. I missed! So, I reloaded as quickly as possible, (had it down to 12 seconds), re-shouldered the Seneca and fired a second round. Something familiar happened. I had shot away my ram rod once again. Yep, the rifle was cocked and my only ram rod was miles away never to be seen again.

Not to be defeated tho, I spent the rest of the morning hunting squirrels with a Swiss pocket knife.

Biker
January 19, 2006, 09:10 PM
I was shooting heavy handloads out of my Ruger Blackhawk (3 screw) in .45 LC and had a squib without realising it..okay I was shooting fast and I was an FNG. Ended up shooting two 260 gr Speer HPs out of the barrel at the same time. I remember a hell of a kick and seeing two bullets hit the dirt.
I ended up with a slight bulge in the end of the barrel and my 4 5/8" barrel was soon cut down to 3". That was the extent of the damage if you disregard my ego and the loss of confidence in my reloading abitilities.
Biker:uhoh:

1911Tuner
January 19, 2006, 09:18 PM
No...but a 1/4-inch dowel rod 3 or 4 inches long sitting against the bullet
in say, a .357 Magmum L-frame or Python wouldn't likely damage the gun.
At least, not the ones that used to be proof-tested before leaving the factory. I don't even know if they still do that. Since proof loads are
generally loaded to somethin' like 20-25% over SAAMI max specs...I'd have to say that increasing the projectile weight/mass with the addition of whatever the dowel rod would weigh wouldn't push the pressures to proof-level.

That said...I don't advise it. A couple of old saws would apply here:

"You can't prove anything with a gun that hasn't already been proven."

Paraphrased:

"The pressure required to push a 150-grain projectile to 1200 fps in 4 inches of barrel is more than enough to blow your eyes through the back of your head."

Cheers!

1911JMB
January 19, 2006, 10:29 PM
In his book kill or get killed, Rex Applegate suggests that it is possible, although not smart, to have a cocktail bomb on a stick, which can be launched with a 12 gauge and a blank. Sounds like about the dumbest idea I've ever heard of.

palerider1
January 19, 2006, 10:36 PM
why would you want to do that?

rero360
January 19, 2006, 11:00 PM
In his book kill or get killed, Rex Applegate suggests that it is possible, although not smart, to have a cocktail bomb on a stick, which can be launched with a 12 gauge and a blank. Sounds like about the dumbest idea I've ever heard of.


well provided you could remote fire the gun it actually sounds pretty cool, of course my squad leader was a sapper in the SF and he tought us a bunch of really cool, unorthodox hasty explosives, so I think weird stuff like that is interesting. I mean your not going to catch me trying this with my 11-87, but from a cheapo pump, perhaps.

jamz
January 19, 2006, 11:03 PM
I wouldn't want to do it, at least not with a valuable gun, and not with me in proximity. I just saw a wooden dowl and a model 19 on my bench and got to thinking.

My assumption is that it would easily slide out (i.e. not wedged into the barrel), and be a reasonably light weight pine or something. It would rest right against the bullet.

I am guessing that a) it would increase the effective mass of the bullet, at least as the gas expansion would see it, and b) it would not be steady, as the dowel would probably crush some before it could exit.

I dunno, I just got to thinking. I'm looking for theory here, don't none of you dummies go out and try this! (Some muzzleloaders excluded :p )

-James

Standing Wolf
January 19, 2006, 11:22 PM
why would you want to do that?

Well, why the heck not? Why, it's practically a science project.

jtward01
January 19, 2006, 11:24 PM
Alright, I admit it. I was a stupid kid. I used to take the lead shot out of 12 gauge shells and drop worn out drumsticks down the barrel and launch them out of my second story bedroom window. They only flew about 20 yards or so, but hey, I got bored easily and had to think up something to do, right?

No damage ever done to the gun. In fact, without the lead charge the stick and wadding would leave the barrel long before all the powder was burned. The unburned grains of powder would fly all over the place.

FRIENDLY
January 20, 2006, 12:34 AM
If anybody tries this their new name might be three fingered jake.or worse stumpy.uncontrolled unknown pressure levels anything might happen from heavy recoil to hand grenade.

Warren
January 20, 2006, 01:17 AM
That would be one powerful dowel movement.

Preacherman
January 20, 2006, 01:27 AM
Warren, Warren, Warren,....

:evil: :D

Hook686
January 20, 2006, 01:31 AM
It seems to me that folks around here have entirely too much time on their hands, in addition to having too much money.

gezzer
January 20, 2006, 01:32 AM
Hey give him a break he's from Maine :what:

EddieCoyle
January 20, 2006, 01:37 AM
Myth Busters did a test of the myth of sticking your finger in the end of a barrel and shooting it. Didn't bulge the barrel. They wedged wood in the barrel, jammed the barrel in the ground and even welded a plug in the barrel before they got it to bulge. A loose fitting dowel would just shoot out the barrel.

Jamie and Adam not withstanding.....

In 1991 on a mountain in Barre, VT, I personally witnessed a 28" Mossberg 12 gauge barrel peeled back and shredded like something you'd see in a cartoon when my buddy Johnny fired it after inadvertently plugging the end with snow.

I'm not sure how this translates to dowels in a handgun but if you do it, please film it and send me the video.

Manedwolf
January 20, 2006, 01:47 AM
Say, a gun with a 4 or 6 inch barrel- slide a 1/4 inch wooden dowel down it until it rests in the cavity of a HP bullet. Fire it- what would happen? Would it slow the bullet enough to bulge the barrel? Would it fire but shatter the wood?

You trying to get on Darwin Awards? :scrutiny:

joebogey
January 20, 2006, 01:54 AM
Been there and done that.
Only I didn't figure out what had happened till I tried to reload.
Felt like a mule had kicked me and spun me partially around. I was using a fiberglas rod and shooting at an old stump that was uprooted with the dirt hangin on.
Nuthin to find there folks, nuthin at all. :(

bakert
January 20, 2006, 01:54 AM
Well I've always said there was no such thing as a dumb question. In fact I don't know how many people will read this thread but more than likely some damned fool will try it. Hope he/she posts the results of their "testing". Be sure to drive the dowel in good and deep and tight!:D

chuckles
January 20, 2006, 02:26 AM
I remember reading a few years back that is was very common during the Civil War for soldiers, in the midst of battle, to forget to remove the ramrod from their rifles and fire. No mention of ill effects other than not being able to load another round. I guess that could be an ill effect! This whole idea reminds me of the "hold my beer and watch this" :what:

Taurus 66
January 20, 2006, 02:26 AM
Say, a gun with a 4 or 6 inch barrel- slide a 1/4 inch wooden dowel down it until it rests in the cavity of a HP bullet. Fire it- what would happen? Would it slow the bullet enough to bulge the barrel? Would it fire but shatter the wood?

You mean do not allow the bullet any forward movement out of the cartridge while locked in the breech, then fire?

In a semiauto: Depending on how the stick behaves while lining up with the grooves, but in the worst case scenario where the dowel digs in and doesn't move, the extreme high pressure could be entirely outgassed through the point of the primer, escape around the outer edges of the cartridge and flash out everywhere in an instant around the breech/handle/trigger area ... anywhere an orifice presents itself enough of a weakling to such an event. If your hand is ever in the path of this escaping fire, instant 2nd or 3rd degree burns!!! The gas is likely going to find weak points to jet through and out before the gun ruptures.

Texfire
January 20, 2006, 03:10 AM
That would be one powerful dowel movement.

Okay that was truly awful. I'm not even going to try and top it.

Tex

gunner03
January 20, 2006, 03:15 AM
I never tried it but I heard that some people have cut the end off the shell to remove the shot,then fired broadhead arrows at deer from .410's.The idea was to register it on a bow tag.I never saw it done but I've never seen lots of stuff.

Warren
January 20, 2006, 05:38 AM
Warren, Warren, Warren,....

:evil: :D

As you can tell I'm feeling much better. Thanks.

LAK
January 20, 2006, 07:20 AM
The answer to the question is; several possibilities. Most of them unfavorable or dangerous.

In W.D.M. Bell's "The Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter", he describes a stuck cartridge/case IIRC in his 1903 Mannlicher-Schoenauer carbine - which occurred as he was walking up on and shooting an elephant. He went on to describe how he tried dislodging it with some stick(s) in the bore - and wound up with sticks in the bore that he couldn't remove.

Chambering a fresh cartridge he took aim at his quarry and cut loose anyway. Not something I would have risked unless the alternative was certain death or the most grievous bodily harm - and even then "at arms length" perhaps. But it went bang, and Bell's Mannlicher-Schoenauer remained intact - and functional. And the elephants took off apparently uninjured too.

But the bottom line is that it is an extremely risky thing to do with any firearm, the consequences potentially deadly for the shooter and anyone else in the immediate area.
-----------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

1 old 0311
January 20, 2006, 08:51 AM
Is this a Jeff Foxworthy bit? Hey ya all watch this...BOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Kevin

Wiley
January 20, 2006, 09:04 AM
Do a search for 'line-throwing guns' or Lyle Gun.

Hawk
January 20, 2006, 09:37 AM
In the specific case of a blackpowder .54 caliber Hawken sorta replica, forgetting to remove the ramrod increases felt recoil significantly.

Powder charge and (other) bullet type not recorded, regrettably.

Thus spake ex-brother-in-law.
:eek:

pharmer
January 20, 2006, 10:43 AM
Well, no matter what the outcome, I could hear my dad saying, "What would make you do that, dumbass?" Joe

bakert
January 20, 2006, 11:04 AM
In the specific case of a blackpowder .54 caliber Hawken sorta replica, forgetting to remove the ramrod increases felt recoil significantly.

Powder charge and (other) bullet type not recorded, regrettably.

Thus spake ex-brother-in-law.
:eek:
Hawk, I hate to admit it but when a lot younger I did it not once but two different times with a .50 caliber. One of those times at an indoor range that allows muzzle loaders. Didn't seem to hurt the gun but not a good practice. Not only increases recoil but also make you feel like fool.:(

heisler
January 20, 2006, 12:06 PM
I'm not sure how well it relates to the topic, but I saw this (http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm) a while ago and thought it was pretty cool. It lets you shoot an arrow from a 10/22.

scout26
January 20, 2006, 12:08 PM
A cleaning rod section, fired with a blank from an M16A2, is surprisingly accurate and will result in a nice German rabbit stew............


They'll also stick into trees so far that you can't get them out. :uhoh:



Don't ask me how I know. ;)

Travis McGee
January 20, 2006, 12:46 PM
"That would be one powerful dowel movement."

OMG! I'm rolling on the ground here!

rero360
January 20, 2006, 01:33 PM
A cleaning rod section, fired with a blank from an M16A2, is surprisingly accurate and will result in a nice German rabbit stew............


They'll also stick into trees so far that you can't get them out. :uhoh:



Don't ask me how I know. ;)


never tried it with a M16, but I have seen guys shoot at raccoons with M9s loaded with blanks and cleaning rods

Roadkill
January 20, 2006, 01:50 PM
I had (notice "had") a NEF target .223, was shooting Wolf in it, the laquer cases were sticking, I was using a cleaning rod to tap them loose, a section came off in the barrel, when I shot it the trigger guard shattered and every spring in the gun broke. I should have got a few stitches in my right hand but
was so mad I just dealt with it. I sent the gun to NEF for rebuild, they said it was unsalveagable cause of stress on chamber and receiver.

rk

Live Free Or Die
January 20, 2006, 01:56 PM
Reminds me of when I was a kid, shooting my lever-action bb gun. I ran out of bb's, so I started thinking of other things I could stuff in the barrel. I finally decided on spaghetti. Angel-hair didn't work very well, but the thicker stuff (#4 I think) was close enough to the diameter of a bb that I was able to achieve pretty good speed and accuracy out to about 20 yards.

Master Blaster
January 20, 2006, 02:38 PM
"That would be one powerful dowel movement."


Gives a whole new meaning to the word BLOWOUT.:rolleyes:

My local FFL has a shotgun barrel, from a rem 870 that was plugged with snow durring a turkey hunt a few years back.

It looks just like elmer fudd's barrel, peeled back about 1/3 of the length of the barrel, the person holding it was uninjured, but reported he had to go home to change his pants.

Like I said whole new meaning to the word blowout.

Guy B. Meredith
January 20, 2006, 03:28 PM
I was under the impression that the molotov on a stick launched from a 12 GA was a common weapon used by Cuban revolutionaries. If I remember correctly it was called an M27 or some such.

Anyone else old enough to have heard this?

svtruth
January 20, 2006, 04:20 PM
the LGS has one. In fact a whole kit with different weight sticks and charges.
Have not seen it fired.

bogie
January 20, 2006, 04:47 PM
The poster below is lucky to be alive. A few years back, a bench shooter left a 6-8" piece of Dewey rod (he'd let it slide down to knock out jammed bullets) in his barrel.

In a tightly fitted custom action, the blowback from the cartridge rupturing (the bolt was frozen, and would not open) was such it escaped back through the bolt action receiver and (I'm not sure about the mechanics here...) foreign matter ended up in the guy's frontal lobe... He was conscious after firing it, but soon lapsed into unconsciousness and died. The piece of rod, with a bullet jacket around it, was found about 40 yards downrange.

I had (notice "had") a NEF target .223, was shooting Wolf in it, the laquer cases were sticking, I was using a cleaning rod to tap them loose, a section came off in the barrel, when I shot it the trigger guard shattered and every spring in the gun broke. I should have got a few stitches in my right hand but
was so mad I just dealt with it. I sent the gun to NEF for rebuild, they said it was unsalveagable cause of stress on chamber and receiver.

rk

Werewolf
January 20, 2006, 06:07 PM
I'm not sure how well it relates to the topic, but I saw this (http://www.swivelmachine.com/html/rimfire.htm) a while ago and thought it was pretty cool. It lets you shoot an arrow from a 10/22.
WOW! :what:

That is really neat - assuming it works.

It is also proof positive of the movie saying Build it and they will come. Human ingenuity. Ain't it grand...

bogie
January 20, 2006, 06:13 PM
Guys, these are NOT toy projectile throwing devices. We're looking at 50,000+ PSI in some cases. Right next to your HEAD. And it can spike higher. Ever pop a primer pocket? That's about 65,000 PSI. This stuff can KILL you. DO NOT PLAY WITH STICKING ARROWS OR ANYTHING ELSE DOWN THE BARREL.

I don't care if it worked when you saw it on TV. I don't care if it worked when you saw it on the video game. I don't care if your cousin's girlfriend's brother's friend's daddy successfully did it, after telling everyone to hold his beer. DO NOT TRIFLE WITH STUFF THAT CAN KILL YOU.

Taurus 66
January 20, 2006, 07:13 PM
Guys, these are NOT toy projectile throwing devices. We're looking at 50,000+ PSI in some cases. Right next to your HEAD. And it can spike higher. Ever pop a primer pocket? That's about 65,000 PSI. This stuff can KILL you. DO NOT PLAY WITH STICKING ARROWS OR ANYTHING ELSE DOWN THE BARREL.

I don't care if it worked when you saw it on TV. I don't care if it worked when you saw it on the video game. I don't care if your cousin's girlfriend's brother's friend's daddy successfully did it, after telling everyone to hold his beer. DO NOT TRIFLE WITH STUFF THAT CAN KILL YOU.

To piggy back on bogie's response:

And even if the gun did not rupture, can you possibly imagine the serious burn you could get from stunting? Everyone here pretty much knows the cutting force of an oxy acetylene torch. Well that's what the fire is like as it crosses paths with your skin & flesh, only, the flash from the gun is at a much higher PSI pressure than the oxy acetylene while steel cutting. You could end up losing fingers in a "FLASH" ... either instantaneously or through an amputative procedure.

JohnKSa
January 21, 2006, 04:56 AM
WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

The Mythbusters test was done with a shotgun in stages. In each stage, there was a "shooter" cast from ballistic gelatin in the shooting position. The SAME shotgun was used for all shotgun stages.

1st stage was a hand made from a skeleton cast into ballistic gelatin. Finger stuck in the barrel--gun fired. No effect on the barrel. Finger/hand destroyed. "Shooter" uninjured.

2nd stage was a hand made from a skeleton cast into ballistic WAX which has a harder consistency. The hand was the same dimensions as in the first stage. Finger stuck in the barrel--gun fired. Barrel bulged very slightly. Finger/hand destroyed. "Shooter" uninjured.

3rd stage was a barrel plugged from muzzle backward with several inches of dirt. Gun fired. Obstruction was shot out--barrel bulged a bit more significantly but nothing terrible. "Shooter" uninjured.

4th stage was a barrel plugged with a spike at the muzzle that was then welded in place. Gun fired. Obstruction was shot out--barrel split, rail curled back, but still no really significant damage other than around the muzzle of the gun. "Shooter" uninjured.

5th stage was a repeat of the 4th stage but using a Carcano Rifle, IIRC. More or less the same results as the 4th stage.

The Mythbusters test differs from the hypothetical on this thread in one important regard. All of the plugs were done at the muzzle while this hypothetical involves an obstruction at the chamber.

Nematocyst
January 21, 2006, 07:10 AM
...you attempted to climb a really big mountain in the dead of winter,
when temperatures were hovering around -4*C?

Said mountain required that you climb approximately a vertical mile in a 24 hr period.

You must carry all the necessary conditions for life - water, food, warmth, rain gear...

What would happen if, after you made the summit, on the way down, as you walked ahead of your climbing partner, who held the only thread protecting you from falling to your death, that you plummeted off the edge of a snow bank for about 40'.

When you landed, standing upright, your right tibia was forced up through your knee joint into the distal end of your femur, completely crushing it.

What if...the pain was so intense that you...couldn't deal with it, but you did anyway.

Then, you fell off of your temporary <understatement> PAINFUL </understatement> perch, off the side of the mountain onto the rope held by your partner, and stopped falling because he did his job and belayed your decent into death ... at least for a few hours, but then, because he was over 40 m above you, on a snow slope, was unable to hear your cries for help, and concluded you dead, cut the rope and let you fall.

What if you fell the rest of the way down, hit the bottom, touching the void (http://www.touchingthevoid.co.uk/), then had to crawl out of the moutains on your own, dragging your leg that was not merely broken, but crushed, with the top of your tibia jammed into the bottom of your femur?

What if?

Is this what Homo sapiens (wise man) has come to?

First, there's extreme sport.
Climb the biggest mountain in the shortest time.
Surf the largest wave without being crushed.
Helicopter yourself onto Everest & snow board down.

Now, comes extreme shooting.

Push a wooden dowel down a barrel, and pull the trigger.

To each his own.

Natural selection is real.

Nem

redneck2
January 21, 2006, 09:15 AM
So, does this mean I shouldn't try it after all??

:p

Actually, I saw a Springfield Loaded that was fired (quite unintentionally) with a squib bullet lodged in the barrel. Bulged the barrel enough to jam the barrel/slide/frame, but the gun actually held together quite well. Barrel was replaced and the gun worked fine.

I would suspect a 200 grain lead bullet jammed in the barrel would make more resistance than a loose fitting dowel rod

jd25q
January 21, 2006, 09:40 AM
When training with the Guard several years ago a couple of guys used the blanks to propel cleaning rod sections from our m-16's. I think they wrapped tape around the rod section in a couple of places. I was a reloader then and tried to explain the pressure situation. I have no idea how much powder or what kind was used in those blanks, but I suppose not much. It would embed the rod in a soft tree at 10 or 20 yards.

Tim Burke
January 21, 2006, 11:01 AM
why would you want to do that?
Vampires?

f4t9r
January 21, 2006, 12:07 PM
Why would you do that ?????

texasguy
January 21, 2006, 03:28 PM
haha last summer, me and my friends took my .22 and did that.

you break open a .22 cartridge so its just the shell and powder and put it in the chamber of the gun with the barrel facing up, no bullet of course, and put a 1/4" sharpened dowel down the barrel, and it will actually sit in the shell, kind of weird that a .25" dowel will go into .22", but a 2"x4" is not really 2"x4".

It shot about 40 feet and stuck about 2" into a phone book. kinda scary.

bogie
January 21, 2006, 03:36 PM
Methinx that Darwin's gonna have a field day...

colt.45
January 21, 2006, 04:22 PM
you all know it, "the improvised munitions handbook" its a book that describes in detail how to make some pretty dangerous weapons and explosives:evil:. in the book it says that you can make a grenade launcher with a shotgun with some blanks a thick dowel and a molitov cock tail. i would never do this but i think it might work

podmart
January 21, 2006, 05:49 PM
I dunno, I just got to thinking. I'm looking for theory here, don't none of you dummies go out and try this! (Some muzzleloaders excluded :p )

-James

Do you hate muzzle loaders?, what did we ever do to you except pollute the range with clouds of dense sulphur laden smoke and bits of unburnt wadding and flying sparks of powder and dirty layers of grease on the firing benches. Am I not human? scratch me and do I not bleed?

- Martin

mbs357
January 21, 2006, 05:50 PM
I remember back in the day, some soldiers would be in a bit of a panic while reloading and end upsending their loading rods downrange with the bullet.

carebear
January 21, 2006, 09:52 PM
I've done the blank and cleaning rod stunt myself for rabbits.

But then, I didn't pay for the rifle. ;)

If the Marine Corps had given me rounds I wouldn't have been forced to improvise.

I blame society. :evil:

coalbucket
January 22, 2006, 05:53 PM
would be about the same as forgetting to remove ramrod from muzzleloader,it will greatly increase recoil-you will not find much left of ramrod, but you wil not forget to remove it, next time.

bogie
January 22, 2006, 07:09 PM
Guys, this can KILL you. I was at a benchrest match where it DID kill someone. They found the rod section downrange will the bullet/jacket around it.

PLEASE don't play with bore obstructions.

carebear
January 22, 2006, 07:21 PM
I think the danger is really from the bullet striking the obstruction, that causes a second inertial interaction between solid objects (I know I'm not getting the science right).

With a blank, it's just the gasses involved in hitting the ad hoc projectile so I think the math becomes different. Really, the space between the end of, say, the cleaning rod section, and the blank would just be an extension of the expansion room in the case. Since the cleaning rod is sub caliber it should have less friction that the round, even though it weighs more. Which might increase pressure some but, in my experience, not dangerously.

Vern Humphrey
January 22, 2006, 07:45 PM
you all know it, "the improvised munitions handbook" its a book that describes in detail how to make some pretty dangerous weapons and explosives:evil:. in the book it says that you can make a grenade launcher with a shotgun with some blanks a thick dowel and a molitov cock tail. i would never do this but i think it might work

Actually, the idea came from Che Guevera's manual. Neither the writers of the "Improvised Munitions Handbook" or Che ever actually tried it, however.

In order to make it work, you have to have a rag soaked wth gasoline (like a molotov cocktail) and have it burning before you pull the trigger -- if the glass bottle doesn't stand up to the sudden shock, guess what happens?:what:

The US Army isn't any smarter -- one of our improvised munitions is (or used to be) the Eagle Cocktail. This is a waterproof bag or a sandbag lined with a poncho and filled with thickened gasoline. To that you attach a thermite grenade and a white phosporous grenade (bear in mind the bursting radius of a WP grenade is farther than you can throw it) and wire the pins together so you can pull them both at the same time.

"Method of employment; emplaced or hand thrown.":what: :what:

carebear
January 22, 2006, 07:59 PM
Actually, the idea came from Che Guevera's manual. Neither the writers of the "Improvised Munitions Handbook" or Che ever actually tried it, however.

In order to make it work, you have to have a rag soaked wth gasoline (like a molotov cocktail) and have it burning before you pull the trigger -- if the glass bottle doesn't stand up to the sudden shock, guess what happens?:what:

The US Army isn't any smarter -- one of our improvised munitions is (or used to be) the Eagle Cocktail. This is a waterproof bag or a sandbag lined with a poncho and filled with thickened gasoline. To that you attach a thermite grenade and a white phosporous grenade (bear in mind the bursting radius of a WP grenade is farther than you can throw it) and wire the pins together so you can pull them both at the same time.


"Method of employment; emplaced or hand thrown.":what: :what:

I always figured I'd drop that bad boy onto a tank off of a roof. I would not watch to see if it worked. Option 2 was to have a PFC run up and place it by hand then have him dive for cover.

I figured on going through PFC's pretty quick. :evil:

Vern Humphrey
January 22, 2006, 08:04 PM
I always figured I'd drop that bad boy onto a tank off of a roof. I would not watch to see if it worked. Option 2 was to have a PFC run up and place it by hand then have him dive for cover.

I figured on going through PFC's pretty quick. :evil:

Whenever I think of the Eagle Cocktail, I also think of old Colonel E.J. Kennedy, "It is sufficient, son, to surprise the enemy. You don't have to f*cking astonish him.":D

bogie
January 22, 2006, 09:57 PM
I think the danger is really from the bullet striking the obstruction, that causes a second inertial interaction between solid objects (I know I'm not getting the science right).


Well, you're correct there. The danger is pressure. Period. Pressure that'll either grenade the item that you're either holding out at the end of your arm (count your fingers...), or that item that's 6-8" from your face (hey, you think you're ugly now...), _or_ come back through/around portions of the action, and kill you that way. Think very powerful, very nasty, plasma cutter. It's not the projectile striking something - that's really small and secondary.

Sport45
January 23, 2006, 08:08 AM
WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.

The Mythbusters test was done with a shotgun in stages. In each stage, there was a "shooter" cast from ballistic gelatin in the shooting position. The SAME shotgun was used for all shotgun stages.

1st stage was a hand made from a skeleton cast into ballistic gelatin. Finger stuck in the barrel--gun fired. No effect on the barrel. Finger/hand destroyed. "Shooter" uninjured.

2nd stage was a hand made from a skeleton cast into ballistic WAX which has a harder consistency. The hand was the same dimensions as in the first stage. Finger stuck in the barrel--gun fired. Barrel bulged very slightly. Finger/hand destroyed. "Shooter" uninjured.

3rd stage was a barrel plugged from muzzle backward with several inches of dirt. Gun fired. Obstruction was shot out--barrel bulged a bit more significantly but nothing terrible. "Shooter" uninjured.

4th stage was a barrel plugged with a spike at the muzzle that was then welded in place. Gun fired. Obstruction was shot out--barrel split, rail curled back, but still no really significant damage other than around the muzzle of the gun. "Shooter" uninjured.

5th stage was a repeat of the 4th stage but using a Carcano Rifle, IIRC. More or less the same results as the 4th stage.

The Mythbusters test differs from the hypothetical on this thread in one important regard. All of the plugs were done at the muzzle while this hypothetical involves an obstruction at the chamber.

I watched that show and think you have it down pat. I thought at the time that they missed the classic screw-up involving 12 gauge shotguns. They should have dropped a 20 gauge shell in the barrel and then loaded and fired the 12 gauge. That would have done some damage for them!

Sport45
January 23, 2006, 08:10 AM
Reminds me of when I was a kid, shooting my lever-action bb gun. I ran out of bb's, so I started thinking of other things I could stuff in the barrel. I finally decided on spaghetti. Angel-hair didn't work very well, but the thicker stuff (#4 I think) was close enough to the diameter of a bb that I was able to achieve pretty good speed and accuracy out to about 20 yards.

Made me think of when I was a kid. Did you know strike-anywhere matches make a pretty good pop when fired from a 177cal pellet gun into any hard object? Can you even buy strike anywhere matches anymore?

Randy in Arizona
January 23, 2006, 11:43 AM
Made me think of when I was a kid. Did you know strike-anywhere matches make a pretty good pop when fired from a 177cal pellet gun into any hard object? Can you even buy strike anywhere matches anymore?

Yup! saw some last night at the local Safeway in the charcoal, boyscout water, and cookout area. About a buck for a box of them.

flyingstag
January 23, 2006, 05:59 PM
We used blanks to fire grenade simulators that fit over the FN FAL flash supressor. Closest Ive come to it.

Stag

Mannlicher
January 23, 2006, 09:32 PM
sure sounds like he is bucking for at least an honorable mention. :what:

el44vaquero
January 23, 2006, 10:13 PM
I'm pretty sure it's vampires that take a wooden stake.

cracked butt
January 23, 2006, 11:11 PM
What would happen if you stuck a wooden dowel down the barrel of a gun and fired it?


Nothing good.


I've seen rifle barrels bulged at the muzzle from being fired with nothing more than a little oil in the bore. I've seen a shotgun barrel split like a banana from what was thought to be a cleaning patch left in the barrel.

Guns aren't anything to screw around with.

bogie
January 24, 2006, 12:21 AM
What worries me is that we've got enough kiddies/gamers that have gotten onto this board who _may_ someday get to play with a real boomstick, and remember vaguely that someone somewhere stuffed something down the bidness end and yanked on the trigger with "extreme" results.

GUYS. These things are NOT toys, and they can get you dead. Dead is sorta forever (yeah, yeah...). They can also cripple you. You ain't gonna get laid a lot of you're missing most of a hand and half your face... DO NOT BLEEP WITH THIS STUFF.

Think of it this way... If someone had suggested on the handloading forum that someone take a 180 grain .30-06 load, and just go ahead and substitute a 220 or 240 grain bullet, Johnny woulda been all over them...

Savage.250
February 18, 2006, 01:32 AM
I know I'm a little late on this but what was the purpose of doing this anyway? Was there any particular reason for using a wooden dowl? Either way a wooden dowl seems as arbitrary as a marble, cork, alkaline batteries, chicklets or whatever else one could imagine ramming down a gun barrel. Being a beginner reloader this whole idea doesn't seem worth the time contiplating. Unknown/high pressures are something great care is taken to avoid completely.

I guess I just don't get it. :confused:

bogie
February 18, 2006, 09:57 AM
It's because somehere, somehow, some bubba stuffed a stick down the bore, and got results.

A note to whatever shooter may be thinking about doing this: This can KILL you, or do things like send pieces of your action through your FACE, ultimately into whatever idiot part of your alleged brain thought that sticking foreign objects down a high pressure rifle's bore.

All I know is that I was at the same range where a negligent shooter had a 6-8" piece of cleaning rod in his bore, and it killed him.

Roadkill
February 18, 2006, 10:22 AM
"A loose fitting dowel would just shoot out the barrel"

Bull. I destroyed a brand new NEF/H&R .223 bull barrel. The chamber was very tight and the .223 casing would not eject. I was using a cleaning rod to tap them out. The rifling in the barrel unscrewed the end section of the rod. I fired it. It shattered the trigger guard, warped the bottom part of the gun, blew out the pins, busted the mainspring, cracked the lens in a good scope, and the hammer went through the bill of my hat. Should have got some stitches in my right hand but was so mad I just taped it. I sent the gun to NEF for rebuild, they refused to consider rebuilding it and also would not send it back to me. It was completely unsafe. I worked out a deal and they sold me a new one at cost.

rk

U.S.SFC_RET
February 18, 2006, 10:38 AM
I hear the topic of myth busters come up alot. Those are controlled experiments with weapons. Do you think for one minute that they show those tapes to you totally unedited? Think again. They won't, they will get what they want and then show it. Myth busters isn't gospel, isn't science and people get suckered into believing that it is. It is what it is "junk science" for entertainment.
When they shot the rifle with a piece of wood stuck in the muzzle I wonder if they sent the weapon in to be examined for minute cracks.

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