I saw the strangest guns tonight


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rock jock
April 10, 2003, 12:50 AM
After my IDPA match, a group of us were sitting around comparing guns. One guy brought out his Grendel in .380. I never had even heard of this company, and wow, but what a fugly piece that thing was! A semi-auto, but without a detachable magazine. He said it was loaded with a stripper clip. What is up with that? I can't imagine that could be a good defensive weapon, unless you happen to carry around spare stripper clips. Another guy who is a state trooper pulled out an Antagua(sp?) that he used for deep concealment on drug interdiction. It was the smallest SA I have ever seen. I think it was even much smaller than the P-32 from Kel-Tec. Any info on these guns?

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10-Ring
April 10, 2003, 12:56 AM
I know the Kel Tecs aren't available in CA because the state has deemed them unsafe for me to own. :scrutiny: :banghead:

Flashpoint
April 10, 2003, 01:10 AM
I'm gonna live by my witty little signiture (the Chinese proverb)and ask. What is a stripper clip?:confused:

Zundfolge
April 10, 2003, 01:25 AM
this is a stripper clip (the ones pictured happen to be for an SKS rifle)

http://www.thecountryshed.com/sks_ac1.jpg

They are used to load a gun that has a fixed magazine.

Flashpoint
April 10, 2003, 02:45 AM
Oh, I see, makes sense now.:D

arinvolvo
April 10, 2003, 03:22 AM
As for the Autauga, I have one and I love it....They are no longer made, and CDNN is selling them for 199...only about 3000 ever made. here is a pic of mine

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=207012

Go here for a bit of a report that I did on it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16747&highlight=autauga

As for the Grendel, it is the precursor to the Keltec Autos....Mr. Kelgren is the guy behind these two brands...hense the names...Grendel is no longer made...and from what I know, they aint nothing special.

Grendel p-10

http://members.aol.com/rllyvncnt/grendel.jpg

Croyance
April 10, 2003, 03:38 AM
He said it was loaded with a stripper clip. What is up with that? I can't imagine that could be a good defensive weapon, unless you happen to carry around spare stripper clips. Can't you say the same about other semi-auto's and carrying extra box-magazines?
Autauga's got good write ups in the gun-rags, IIRC. Then again, what gun doesn't?

WonderNine
April 10, 2003, 05:38 AM
Wow, that Autauga is really neat. I'm assuming since they don't make them anymore you can't get spare parts or extra magazines? It looks like a Seecamp. Is it really smaller than a Kel-Tec P-32? The p32 is smaller than the Seecamp right?

Tamara
April 10, 2003, 09:48 AM
Reloading Grendels from spare stripper clips is an awkward proposition. 5.56 strippers work with the .380 shells fine, but you also need a little saddle-shaped gizmo to guide the clip on the top of the slide. The P-10 was followed by the P-12, which had a detachable mag and was, if anything, less reliable than the already spotty P-10.

These guns are pretty much the direct ancestors to the P-11 and P-40 from Kel-Tec.


The Autauga is a Seecamp-esque little pistol that debuted about the same time as the Guardian, but (for whatever reason) flopped commercially. There really isn't much practical difference between the Autauga and the NAA.

seeker_two
April 10, 2003, 10:42 AM
He said it was loaded with a stripper clip. What is up with that? I can't imagine that could be a good defensive weapon, unless you happen to carry around spare stripper clips.

Winston Churchill seemed to like his Mauser C96 fine...

http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/C96char2.jpg

Mauser C96 info (http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/c96enpub.htm)

BTW, I also use SKS stripper clips to carry reloads for my .38SPL/.357MAG revolvers too...:D

arinvolvo
April 10, 2003, 01:57 PM
wondernine...Finding Auatauga mags is easy, they are 9.99 from CDNN investments...

Apparently CDNN also has some parts for it...I was checking out the internals last night, and it looks well made, I am not expecting any problems. It is smaller than a p32, but not thinnner...and not lighter.

rock jock
April 10, 2003, 06:48 PM
The trooper mentioned that he was having consistent problems getting the magazine to release on the Autauga and in fact, could not do so when he showed it to me. Obviously he does not carry it as a BUG anymore. Also, I could not get more than one finger on the grip under the trigger guard. How does the recoil feel on your gun, arinvolvo?

HerbG
April 10, 2003, 08:08 PM
I owned a Grendel P10, and it was a very interesting handgun. The one I had was reliable - until the mainspring broke. The spring was unusual in that it was a circular spring like a clock. I think the later P11 version had a conventional removable magazine. Hands down the P10 won the title of: "Most difficult handgun to field strip and reassemble for cleaning." Never put it back together in less than 30 minutes!

arinvolvo
April 10, 2003, 08:36 PM
Rockjock....to be perfectly honest, Im not sure...I have only shot it once, to qualify for CCW with it...I took it directly from the store where I picked it up, right to the range to qualify with it...Having never shot it before.

To qualify was 30 some odd shots, and I had to use their ammo, which was mag tech ball ammo....and you are not supposed to use ball ammo, only hollow points through the autauga.

The heavier ball ammo may cause the slide to come back prematurely giving it a snappier recoil...which is what i felt, the recoil was horrible, and the trigger guard smacked my trigger finger knuckle hard with every shot.

Apparently the recoil is softer with hollow points...But I have not got the chance to go back out with it....

I do know however, that the gun was 100% reliable during qualifying, even without a break-in period. Other people I have talked to say that recoil isnt that bad, but they only use HPs...

As for the mag release, all he needs to do is take off the grip panel, remove the catch, and clean it and the channel is sits in...then oil it...Like any gun, it needs to be maintained.

Aside from the fact that it hurt my trigger finger a bit, I was very impressed with the overall quality, and accuracy of it...I was able to qualify with it, right out of the box...although, I have to say, @ 15 yards, it is a crap shoot if you can even hit paper...I managed to get all of my shots on paper, even at 15 yds...but the 15 yd shots were about as accurate as you would expect from such a small pistol.

Jim K
April 10, 2003, 11:00 PM
The Grendel was a horrible joke. The Model 10 was worse than the 11, but neither would have been a defense gun unless you wanted to count on the BG laughing himself to death.

I bought one as a novelty and then MD passed its version of the SNS law. The Grendel 10 became one of the few guns actually reviewed by MD's handgun board and ruled illegal to sell in MD. (The makers of the other junk never bothered to submit guns.) So if I want to sell the little POS, I have to find a sucker - er, I mean a discerning collector of finely made firearms - outside the state.

Jim

arinvolvo
April 11, 2003, 12:09 AM
Jim, Ill give ya 25 bones for it....Id like to have one just as an artifact of Keltec history.

Okiecruffler
April 11, 2003, 12:42 AM
I had a P10 and a P12 at one time in my collection, even carried the P10 for a while. Never had any problem with it, other than lubing the slide with blood from time to time. The P-12 gave me all sorts of problems, the mag catch hooks on a little plastic shelf on the mag itself, and mine was worn down. Once I found a couple of new mags it worked like a charm. Paid less than $100 for each of them and they would both beat the S&W Sigma 380 that I tried to replace them with. Now that is a true POS.

rock jock
April 11, 2003, 06:31 PM
Okie,

I had one of those SW380's. Yup, they are junk. I will say, however, that I never had reliability problems with it. Yes, the finish flaked off, yes it was a PITA to disassmble and clean, and yes, small pieces of metal shavings started to appear on the internals after 500 rounds. BUT, it fired without a hiccup every time. A dealer gave me $150 towards a S&W 638 for it and I never looked back.

FPrice
April 11, 2003, 08:23 PM
I had a Grendel P-10 in the late 80's and it was the WORST pistol I ever had. A horrible trigger pull and that loading method which has already been cussed and discussed. It was the only firearm which I sold for a loss and was grateful for.

tbeb
April 11, 2003, 08:54 PM
I carried a Grendel P-12 for 10 years. P-12 is a much improved
P-10 that has a detachable magazine. (P-10's were not reliable.)Mine was 100% reliable with Silvertips and hardball, and I put hundreds of them through it. It's a very light pistol, and if you limp wrist it, it will malfunction. This is the only thing I didn't like about it.

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