Horizontal shoulder holster and concealment


PDA






Soybomb
January 20, 2006, 01:59 PM
So I'm probably going to regret it based on most people's stories but I think I have to try a shoulder holster. I think I'd find it more comfortable and easier to reach while seated or driving. At 6'3" and a big build I think I may have a chance at concealing it effectively too. For IWB I find the length of the grip is what I have the most problem with, it really want to print. Length of the slide doesn't seem to matter too much.

How about for a horizontal shoulder holster. I'm thinking either my p99c, which will have a short barrel and grip, but I'd also be open to the thin 1076 if the longer barrel and grip won't be much harder to conceal. I'm guessing muzzle printing at the back is the problem. Is it dumb to even think it might be possible with a tshirt, then holster, then unbuttoned shirt on over it could do it?

If you enjoyed reading about "Horizontal shoulder holster and concealment" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dfariswheel
January 20, 2006, 08:22 PM
It's possible.

Most horizontal shoulder holsters allow adjusting the harness assembly to allow the holster to ride farther forward, or to allow tilting the barrel end upward slightly.

Either or a combination of both can allow the gun to ride without "printing" so bad.

Being big is an advantage.
Printing of the grip is not a problem, only the muzzle.

Depending on the shirt, this can work quite well.

Around here a lot of laborer and service and maintenance people wear tee shirts with an unbuttoned heavy flannel work shirt over that.
Depending on the gun, your build, and the holster, most people will never notice, especially as long as you do your part by not stretching or bending in such as way as to cause the muzzle to print.

doubleaes2
January 20, 2006, 11:27 PM
Soybomb,

I'm a big guy too, 6'4", 325. I carry a 1911 in a horizontal shoulder rig. The holster is adjusted all the way up to my armpit, and the muzzle is adjusted to be about one inch higher than the grip end of the gun. I have no problem printing and the gun is very comfortable to carry. If you haven't picked out a rig yet, get one with the widest straps possible, and then have your significant other help you to fit it.


edited to replace vertical with horizontal--i had a brain fart.

Mad Magyar
January 21, 2006, 12:26 AM
Soybomb, don't make the mistake of purchasing a horizontal rig...They look good pictured in the magazines, but in actuality, they print something awful...I tried every way to adjust the rig, but the damn butt of the pistol/revolver would print through my outerwear, usually a sport coat.
Like Doubleas2, I wear my vertical closer to the armpit area, totally comfortable and will not show....No one will ever know you are carrying...:uhoh: P.S. I'm tall too....:D
http://tinypic.com/m9youp.jpg

TexasRifleman
January 21, 2006, 12:35 AM
I carry my 1911 in a horizontal shoulder holster when I am going to spend most of the day either driving or walking around in a jacket.

I find it a very comfortable and convenient method.

I really don't understand why this carry method gets ragged on so much.

With a 5" 1911, I don't find that I print any more than any other carry method.

Soybomb
January 21, 2006, 02:29 AM
Interesting answers so far, thanks guys! I'm thinking probably an alessi bodyguard if I go horizontal since they seem to get a lot of really good reviews.

I'm still torn on the gun theres the thin 1076 with its 4.25" barrel but pretty large beaver tail makes it longer overall than the p99. The p99 is a bit shorter but doublestack 9mm might be a little thick. Hmmm Its really a shame there isn't a holster rental place :D

Sounds like I need to consider going vertical though.

NineseveN
January 21, 2006, 02:57 AM
I am 6'2" and a good 220 (not fat or anything, just a big guy). I carry an HK USP .45 Compact in a Galco SSII horizontal rig with the dual mag pouch on the strong side. A few things:

Do not listen to those that say they print. They don't. It's just like any other carry method, dress around your rig and you are fine. I have found that button down flannel type shirts and thicker dress shirts (short and long sleeved) are the perfect companion for shoulder rigs. The little lady and I cut off the regular buttons and picked up some snap buttons (like you would find on old cowboy style shirts) and replaced them with those. They come in different colors and sizes and are easy to put on...they also don't have to look like cowboy buttons. In fact, no one so far has been able to tell that these buttons were not supposed to be on my shirts and are actually quite surprised when they find out what they are.

The upside to those buttons is, I can draw form my rig into a modified Weaver stance as fast as most folks I know can draw from an IWB rig behind their hip. I can draw sitting in a car, on the couch, wherever.

The Galco SSII has WIDE straps, you should check it out. www.galcogunleather.com

Wear the rig as high into your armpit as you can and still be comfortable. If you do this, the tie-downs are not usually necessary. Since I began wearing my rig (changed from standard IWB carry), I have converted 2 religiously IWB carriers into the Galco rig. :D

I can wear mine under a loose t-shirt and still draw easily as well, and if I go out with a jacket on, no cover garment is necessary, the rig is under my jacket, over my shirt. I keep a spare button-down shirt in the car incase I go somewhere that I will want to take my jacket off (to eat) in case I am not wearing the cover garment. If I need to run to the store and I am in sweatpants or pants without belt loops, I don't worry, I just throw my rig on and go. Freedom is bliss.

I'll tell ya what, when I get up in the AM, I will have my lady take some pics of me with the gun and without using various shirts and I will let you decide if you can tell which is which and if the rig prints or not. I'll post them tomorrow evening if I can.

Glocker
January 21, 2006, 03:06 AM
I've been thinking of a shoulder rig myself... but has anyone had a horizontal shoulder rig and have there handgun fall out onto the ground? It seems like that might be a problem.

Soybomb
January 21, 2006, 03:10 AM
Sounds great, my usual style of dress is a tshirt and an open buttondown
http://cyber-byte.com/photos/cc4.jpg
It sounds like unless its windy outside I might even be able to keep it unbuttoned.

NineseveN
January 21, 2006, 03:24 AM
I've been thinking of a shoulder rig myself... but has anyone had a horizontal shoulder rig and have there handgun fall out onto the ground? It seems like that might be a problem.

Two words, "thumb break".

Tow more, "adjustable tension".


I have hung upside down in the rafters running network cables for 5 hours straight, the gun didn't even flinch. It won't come out until you want it to. :cool:

NineseveN
January 21, 2006, 03:31 AM
Sounds great, my usual style of dress is a tshirt and an open buttondown
::img removed for quote::
It sounds like unless its windy outside I might even be able to keep it unbuttoned.

You should be fine. I am guessing you wear a 2XL or 3XL shirt? You might want to roll up to 1 size higher as you buy new clothes (for comfort). I wear a 2XL for a perfect fit sans the gun, but the extra width across the chest and back that a 3XL gives me makes things bit more comfortable, especially if it is warm. Also, the thinner or more flimsy (has a tendency to hang and drape) a material is, the larger the shirt needs to be. Stiffer cotton or blends are perfect.

Because of the way a properly fitted rig should drape down from your shoulders, wearing the shirt open is fine as long as there is no wind. Or try buttoning it up only partially.

My lady, who is keen and observant used to be able to spot me carrying IWB all the time. When I switched to the shoulder rig, she has to ask sometimes (even though she knows I always carry, I mean always). Just today I had my rig under a t-shirt, when I came home and took my jacket off, a few minutes later she asked nervously, "where's your gun?!?!". I was wearing it the same way I always do. ;)

Sometimes she hugs me and she cannot tell (she's 5"1 and 3/4" so, you know, hehe).

Mad Magyar
January 21, 2006, 08:45 AM
Since I see some of you are having success with your horizontal rigs, I will defer my opinion to that of having "one bad experience". I really liked the idea of grabbing the gun from that position, but the rig from El Paso Saddlery was "one POS" that turned me off.
However, having a "thumb break" hasn't worked for me in terms of many styles of carry holsters. Notice what I am about to say: make sure you check out the inner snap on all thumb breaks so they are not snagging on your gun during withdrawal. I've found some that are not designed correctly, even on the so-called name brands...This defect can be catastrophic where time might be of essence. Again, some holsters are fine: but check them out.....
One more point about "thumb breaks" that needs to be addressed. When it is pressure time, "the moment", and you miss the thumb break and attempt to muscle the gun free: a panic grab for your gun could be fatal...:(

MCgunner
January 21, 2006, 10:18 AM
I guess if I lived in Alaska. South Texas, however, you'd sure have to stay in the AC...:D I have worn horizontal shoulder rigs on cold days wade fishing. With enough coat on, it can conceal a P90 Ruger. I've only used it a couple of times wade fishing in fridged temps in my 5mm neoprene waders. IWB isn't really possible with waders on, but normally when it's that cold I'm like Ron White, "it's really early in the morning, it's really cold, and I don't wanna go...":D

Soybomb
January 21, 2006, 02:47 PM
As far as retention goes I hear alessi will do either a thumb break over the rear, or some sort of pull through snap that goes through the trigger guard. A good pull of the guy is supposed to release the snaps, but still offer retention. Sounds neat at least although I'd like to hear from a couple that have it.

I'm still debating the 1076, at about 7.75" from tip to tip I'm thinking it might make me look like I have beavertail nipples. :eek:

BigRedBowtie
January 21, 2006, 06:14 PM
Soybomb- I'm 6'4" and 275. I quite frequently carry a 5" 1911 in an Alessi Bodyguard with the pull-through snap.

Tie-downs were mentioned, so I'll give some brief input there- I found the tie-down useless.

The pull-thru is interesting; I wasn't sure about it at first- the idea of intentionally putting something in the trigger guard of a single-action auto made me nervous. Well, it hasn't gone off on me so far, and with the short trigger on my gun, I have to REALLY TRY to make any sort of contact with the trigger face, and I'm not sure I could trip it even if I wanted to. It can be a little tricky to get the gun in, as I seem to have to spread the snaps for it to slide cleanly into place, then snap it. I've only had one retention issue when I didn't snap the snap fully. Once snapped, a firm tug pops it loose.

The harness is made from wide, soft leather over the shoulders, and narrows to pretty thin strips elsewhere. The thin harness doesn't even print through a dress shirt. I have carried with it under a tucked-in dress shirt, and got patted down by one of my closest friends who KNOWS I don't go unarmed, and thought it unusual that I was tucked-in without a coat. You'd want to stick with meduim-to-dark colored dress shirts so that the color variation can't be seen. (white shirts need not apply).

I usually go with a colored t-shirt and an unbuttoned 2XLT "chamois" shirt from Gander Mountain. YOU CAN'T TELL that there's a gun there. The unbuttoned shirt really helps to keep the back from getting tight. It can also be worn under a fleece pullover, hoodie, regular jacket, suit jacket, or windbreaker. VERY versatile.

For those in warmer climates: I have made a wonderful addition to my carry wardrobe that I have to share. Slugger jackets. They are a short-sleeved, pullover, lightweight windbreaker- intended as baseball warm-ups. On the days I don't wear an unbuttoned flannel, (or in the summer) I toss the slugger jacket over the top and am good to go. The nylon is a more rigid material and doesn't conform very well to anything, so it doesn't print at all. It works well for IWB/OWB carry, too.

Back to buying a bodyguard- go for it. But... you might have to let the bodyguard choose the gun for you rather than you choosing a gun for the bodyguard. From what I understand, Alessi is months behind on orders, and only mainstream models are stocked at the dealers. I got mine at http://www.lightningarms.com/ and they were fantastic people to deal with. Not cheap, mind you, but it was at my door in three days- no complaints there. I have since purchased from them again. I called for my XD, and they didn't stock it, but they had 1911 in when I needed it.

All-in-all... I wouldn't give up my shoulder rig for anything. I'd gladly pay the $175 or whatever it was to have such a versatile method of carry. Also, if belt-carry irritated your back, like it did for me- you might find shoulder carry a huge relief.

Cosmoline
January 21, 2006, 06:58 PM
I've been using Galco's new vertical miami/SBII rig that they developed for airline pilots. I find it conceals far better than ordinary horizontal rigs. IWB has never been practical for me because I only wear belted pants part of the day at most. Jeans and the like are a fool's clothing in this climate in the winter, and ploy snow pant's don't have the rigidity to hold an IWB rig.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/holster.jpg

rero360
January 21, 2006, 07:22 PM
well how about for us skinny guys? I'm 5'10" and about 150, my waist is like 30 inches but my chest is around 54 inches, I'm a bit barrel chested, what would be a good shoulder rig for me, I have a 5" 1911, I carry it no prob iwb but I'd like to get a shoulder rig, would it be possible for me? I'm also thinking about getting a XD somepoint this year hopefully

NineseveN
January 21, 2006, 07:31 PM
Pics may have to wait until tomorrow, we'll see how my camera acts in a bit...having some probs hehe.

Monkeyleg
January 21, 2006, 07:55 PM
rero360, I have the same problem as you. I'm 6'1" and 180 lbs. Have no chest to speak of, but a bit of a beer gut. Skinny arms, too.

What that means is that both the grip and the muzzle will print for me. I tried vertical shoulder rigs, but found that the grip printed like crazy. The horizontal rig is, for me, something of a compromise.

Still, it's only something I can wear in cooler weather, when I can have enough clothing on to prevent printing.

In warm weather, it's back to an IWB holster. That's a shame, because the shoulder rig is much more comfortable for me, since most of my time is spent sitting or driving.

Old Dog
January 21, 2006, 09:09 PM
As an old Miami Vice fan, I purchased one of the original Galco "Miami Classic" horizontal rigs for Commander-length 1911s ... First time I packed with it, under an lightweight "Member's Only" jacket (hey, it was the '80s, okay?), every single one of my buddies that I encountered that day all said, "Hey, you got yerself a Sonny Crockett rig ..." Needless to say, I was so mindful of how badly the set-up printed, I've only used it since under puffy down jackets or under sports jackets and overcoats ... And I've got a 47-inch chest and decent size arms, so I sure don't think anyone wouldn't have noticed Don Johnson packin' either his SIG 220, a Bren 10 or a S&W .45 autoloader under a silk Armani blazer ... I just don't think they're effective concealment rigs under anything but winter clothing. The straps can print something awful, too -- not just the muzzle poking out under one's armpit ...

OTOH, I can conceal a 4" N-frame .357 in a vertical should rig without my wife immediately noticing. But, for my money, IWB or a high-rise, close-fitting OWB pancake is the best concealment options available for anything up to a 4" revolver or 5" 1911.

Inline_6
January 22, 2006, 06:27 PM
I concur.. if you are the right size (I am 6ft 2" tall) it can easily be done. Some shirts and jackets won't work as cover garments bcz they are tapered, but you'll just have to find the ones that will.

Also, if you don't anchor your rig to your belt (I don't find it comfortabley anyway) you can wear a collared, button down shirt over the rig and tuck it in. It is slower to get to, but you can rip the shirt open if it's a real emergency. It is great though bcz nobody would think you are carrying a gun, much less a 1911 and two spares. :D

I currently use a Miami Classic to hide my Para P14, but am planning to replace it with the Monarch bcz it has better features (strap across the back to keep the gun from moving) and options. Plus, Mr Andrews makes all my IWBs, which if you are having an issue finding a good one I recommend trying as well.

Good luck whatever you decide.

http://www.andrewsleather.com/monarch.htm

http://www.andrewsleather.com/monarch_opts.htm

http://www.andrewsleather.com/macdaniel2.htm

megatronrules
January 22, 2006, 08:35 PM
Since we're talking shoulder holsters here I was wondering if anyone here has used a galco "explorer" vertical shoulder holser with the SSII harness to carry a 5" 1911? I am considering buying one of these and need feedback from users any info on this holster would be great thanks.

Cosmoline
January 22, 2006, 09:37 PM
Is this the one you're talking about?

http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterG3.asp?ProductID=2832&GunID=157

http://www.usgalco.com/Catalog/normal/VHS_SILO.jpg

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 01:19 AM
Okay, here are the images in the next few posts. Decide if you can tell which shirts I am carrying the rig in and which you canít.

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1123/dt017jh.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7351/dt028yh.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9827/dt036is.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2962/dt041pq.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7333/dt063bi.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5450/dt070ww.jpg

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 01:20 AM
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7865/gre014ka.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1215/gre027rn.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4934/gre039rk.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1738/gre044po.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/3986/gre050sv.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5264/gre061fj.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/5889/gre074re.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4250/gre085kg.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2658/gre091xp.jpg

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 01:21 AM
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2112/lle014hy.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9260/lle024dc.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8905/lle033kb.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7229/lle043pt.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2866/lle055ge.jpg

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 01:22 AM
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8572/wcb010dl.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4961/wcb022qe.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/674/wcb032xp.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6563/wcb046rr.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/401/wcb054tv.jpg

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 01:23 AM
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9987/wcc016wp.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/876/wcc023eu.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2008/wcc036yy.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9731/wcc056kh.jpg

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 01:28 AM
And here’s the bare pictures, no cover garment. Try to ignore the extra holiday food I have in storage there. :D

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2731/under012tf.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8660/under024al.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2778/under038rt.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/8559/under049fa.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2228/under057af.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7766/under068bw.jpg
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2006/under076td.jpg

palerider1
January 23, 2006, 01:29 AM
i used to use a shoulder harness system. it was great!!!!! gun under my left armpit and two fully loaded clips inder my right, but that was when i used to wear suits. buy it if you like it. nothing wrong with the shoulder holster, but now i prefer a pancake holster for my .45 1911. easier to conceal and easier to draw the weapon quickly while concealing it under a t-shirt. while wearing a suite or jacket the shoulder carry gives you a fast draw too. just buy it!!!!! can never have too many toys my friend:)

megatronrules
January 23, 2006, 02:36 AM
Yes cosmoline thats the one any experiance with it and a 5" 1911 for concealed carry?

Soybomb
January 23, 2006, 08:49 PM
Wow pretty impressive, thanks for the pics NineseveN, think if your gun were an additional .75" long you would have more trouble hiding it? I'm trying to size them up and it seems like at 7.75" you might wind up with muzzle printing.

Vitamin G
January 23, 2006, 10:04 PM
Quite the opposite of many of the other members, I'm not tall, and i also enjoy a shoulder holster, horizontal. I guess its kinda like imaging an oompa loompa with a full size, non-detective model hi-power slung under the armpit. I actually prefer the barrel tipped down, rather than up, more of a 25-30degree angle. Not vertical, but not really horizontal either. I also bought a cheaper horizontal for my new glock 20. I think its really the only style im going to be able to carry it. I love shoulder holsters for doublestacks, and IWB for 1911's.

NineseveN
January 23, 2006, 11:31 PM
Wow pretty impressive, thanks for the pics NineseveN, think if your gun were an additional .75" long you would have more trouble hiding it? I'm trying to size them up and it seems like at 7.75" you might wind up with muzzle printing.

I don't think it ould make too much of a difference, but anything longer than that might start to stick out too much.You'd be surprised at how large of a gun can be concealed, even on a person with a smaller frame.

Soybomb
February 5, 2006, 03:47 AM
Thanks for all the advice, I put my name down on the list for an alessi bodyguard for a sig p226 this week. I am a little concerned about my shirts not being heavy enough to keep them from printing but its worth a shot. And now the wait begins...

KurtC
February 5, 2006, 02:43 PM
There are numerous reasons why horizontal shoulder holsters are prohibited by nearly every major law enforcement organization.

First of all, they violate the 1st rule of firearm safety: Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.

You need to carry the way you train, and instructors won't even allow horizontal holsters on a range. Nobody want's a gun pointing in the wrong direction, with some fool waving it past folks when he draws.

Gravity should work for you, not against you. Nearly all horizontal holsters point muzzle up, with some sort of "safety" mechanism to defy the law of gravity. Your gun will fall out when you least need it to. If it hasn't happened yet, you still have that experience to look forward to.

If you are carrying a handgun, it is vitally important that you be able to re-holster using just one hand. It is also important to note that most accidental discharges occur during reholstering. A horizontal holster will dictate that the gun is pointed at friendlies or loved ones while you are doing this.

If you wish to carry on the opposite side, get a vertical belt holster with the extra loop near the trigger guard. It will pull the butt in close against your stomach, and still allow instant access (even while seated). Just remember to draw the gun straight up, then raise the muzzle to point only in the direction of the threat.

NineseveN
February 5, 2006, 03:08 PM
There are numerous reasons why horizontal shoulder holsters are prohibited by nearly every major law enforcement organization.

First of all, they violate the 1st rule of firearm safety: Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.

So does hip carry (unless you consider yourself as something you intend to shoot)....or someone's leg/foot depending on your holster cant and your height. While this is just a stupid retort, there is a small amount of validity to it. It is amazing how unaware some folks really are of where their muzzle goes, hip carry folks included.


You need to carry the way you train, and instructors won't even allow horizontal holsters on a range. Nobody want's a gun pointing in the wrong direction, with some fool waving it past folks when he draws.

Some instructors won't allow it...some also won't allow Glocks or similar firearms. Some only allow one shooting stance. That's the funny thing about individual instructors, they are individuals, they do individual things.


Gravity should work for you, not against you. Nearly all horizontal holsters point muzzle up, with some sort of "safety" mechanism to defy the law of gravity. Your gun will fall out when you least need it to. If it hasn't happened yet, you still have that experience to look forward to.

And does one go into an anti-gravity state when they pull their gun from [i]below[/u] their line of sight and raises it, against gravity to the eye line? Does gravity cease to exist when drawing from an ankle holster? Or do you just shoot from the hip? Gravity works against you more raising your gun from hip to eye than it does from armpit to eye, especially if you go from shoulder carry to a modified weaver stance.

Also, I don't know how long it has been since you've used a shoulder rig, but all of the vertical rigs that I know of allow for perfectly vertical carry. A good holster will also not allow your gun to simply fall out any more than an IWB rig will allow the holster to flop out if you run or jump. This is pure poppycock. It might be true for a cheap Uncle Mike's Velcro rig, but not so with a quality leather rig with a good system of retention (tension screw and thumb break).


If you are carrying a handgun, it is vitally important that you be able to re-holster using just one hand. It is also important to note that most accidental discharges occur during reholstering. A horizontal holster will dictate that the gun is pointed at friendlies or loved ones while you are doing this.

If you wish to carry on the opposite side, get a vertical belt holster with the extra loop near the trigger guard. It will pull the butt in close against your stomach, and still allow instant access (even while seated). Just remember to draw the gun straight up, then raise the muzzle to point only in the direction of the threat.

While there are concerns, there is a reason why shoulder holsters are still on the market, not everything is black and white. Plenty of guys I know in Iraq carry their M9's in shoulder rigs over their chest rigs because the belt units and drop legs aren't always comfortable or easy to get to, and sometimes they ride up (the drop legs) when you run.

Police officers are different stories, they have their own set of liabilities to be concerned with, sometimes these concerns outweigh all else.

While I respect your opinion, if you look around, there are plenty of good and bad points on every method of carry. Remember, don't bend over with a gun on your belt in the supermarket, someone might get shot.

Car Knocker
February 5, 2006, 04:54 PM
Remember, don't bend over with a gun on your belt in the supermarket, someone might get shot.

And certainly never carry on an upper floor of an apartment building. :D

Soybomb
February 5, 2006, 05:41 PM
There are numerous reasons why horizontal shoulder holsters are prohibited by nearly every major law enforcement organization.

First of all, they violate the 1st rule of firearm safety: Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot.

You need to carry the way you train, and instructors won't even allow horizontal holsters on a range. Nobody want's a gun pointing in the wrong direction, with some fool waving it past folks when he draws.

Gravity should work for you, not against you. Nearly all horizontal holsters point muzzle up, with some sort of "safety" mechanism to defy the law of gravity. Your gun will fall out when you least need it to. If it hasn't happened yet, you still have that experience to look forward to.

If you are carrying a handgun, it is vitally important that you be able to re-holster using just one hand. It is also important to note that most accidental discharges occur during reholstering. A horizontal holster will dictate that the gun is pointed at friendlies or loved ones while you are doing this.

If you wish to carry on the opposite side, get a vertical belt holster with the extra loop near the trigger guard. It will pull the butt in close against your stomach, and still allow instant access (even while seated). Just remember to draw the gun straight up, then raise the muzzle to point only in the direction of the threat.
Fantastic don't carry one. The local range only allows leo's to use holsters (yay illinois) at the range. Practice drawing is not a range activity for all. I am quite confident my gun will not fire when its in its holster. Trigger discipline keeps me from worrying when my hand is on it. Falling out is an absurd arguement.

I appreciate your enthusiasm in answering a question that I never asked however much like zero tolerance laws, I think inflexibility in applying rational thought and analysis to a situation can be quite handicapping.

NineseveN
February 6, 2006, 01:03 AM
And certainly never carry on an upper floor of an apartment building. :D

Heh, hadn't even thought of that one. Listen, I didn't mean to bust anyone's chops, but do me a favor, go into your garage, take a squirt gun (small super soaker works well) and hold it in the position and angle you normally carry on your hip. Squirt it one once and hold down the trigger as you draw up to your firing stance. Now look around at the wide arc that your muzzle just covered.

The only carry position that does not cover those around you is the traditional LEO retention holster going straight up and down....anything behind the hip or forward of the hip has a wider draw arc that most are aware of.

Now put it under your arm pit, turn to face your target as you draw and pull it into a modified weaver stance. The results will surprise you.

If you're concerned about where the muzzle is when your hand is not on the gun, well then pay attention to where your gun points on your hip when you are on the stairs, sitting down and as was said just before, while your on an upper floor of a building walking along.

There are a number of drawbacks of shoulder carry, the concerns listed earlier in this thread that I responded to aren't included in that list.

KC&97TA
February 6, 2006, 10:48 AM
I carry a Beretta 92 or a Kimmy TLE in a shoulder holster, with double mag pouch on the right, from time to time, mosly when I walk the dog late at night or when picking people up from questionalbe neighbor hoods. So I'm not CCW on a daily basis. My usuall dress is a hooded sweat shirt and I've been through the supermarket a few times w/o incident.

I took the tie-downs off and had the local tactical store cut me a strap and a little slider that fit around my back, so when the pistol is pulled from the holser it pulls against my back, not my trousers, it's alot more comfortable. I've used it for carry over my military blouse a few times and it's extremly comfortable, no drop holster in the way and quick access from a vehicle.

45+
February 6, 2006, 10:58 AM
I took the tie-downs off and had the local tactical store cut me a strap and a little slider that fit around my back, so when the pistol is pulled from the holser it pulls against my back, not my trousers, it's alot more comfortable. I've used it for carry over my military blouse a few times and it's extremly comfortable, no drop holster in the way and quick access from a vehicle.

I would appreciate it if you could post a pic of the strap and of the who rig with the strap attached. This sounds like a good mod.

Good shootin'....

Steven1281
February 6, 2006, 07:48 PM
Thanks for all the advice, I put my name down on the list for an alessi bodyguard for a sig p226 this week. I am a little concerned about my shirts not being heavy enough to keep them from printing but its worth a shot. And now the wait begins...

Soybomb, a little bit of starch can really help with printing issues. A stiff shirt makes quite a bit of difference, in my opinion. Carrying does require a few lifestyle changes... :(

Steven

If you enjoyed reading about "Horizontal shoulder holster and concealment" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!