WI: Doyle to veto CCW bill tonight


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Monkeyleg
January 20, 2006, 07:14 PM
Late this evening, Governor Doyle will veto the Personal Protection Act concealed carry bill.

"The bill does not create a single job, help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, or improve schools for a single Wisconsin child," Doyle said in a statement. "The Legislature should spend more time trying to get jobs into our communities instead of more guns."

No, governor. The bill just allows people to defend themselves from violent criminals. We don't have armed bodyguards like you do.

The fact that he would veto the bill so late on a Friday evening is interesting. Politicians usually make controversial announcements late on Fridays so that fewer people hear about it over the weekend.

The last time Doyle vetoed the Personal Protection Act in 2004, he had a big midday press conference where he was surrounded by sheriffs and police chiefs. This time he's doing it in the dark of night.

Please don't let Doyle succeed in trying to hide his veto. Email everyone you know about it.

And also please continue to contact the Democratic senators and representatives who voted for the bill to thank them for their courage, and to encourage them to vote to override Doyle's veto.

Those Democratic legislators are:

Senator Russ Decker (608)266-2502
sen.decker@legis.state.wi.us

Senator Julie Lassa (608)?266-3123
sen.lassa@legis.state.wi.us

Senator Bob Wirch (888) 769-4724
sen.wirch@legis.state.wi.us

Senator Roger Breske (800) 334-8773
sen.breske@legis.state.wi.us

Senator Jeff Plale (608) 266-7505
sen.plale@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Barbara Gronemus (888) 534-0091 rep.gronemus@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Mary Hubler (888) 534-0075
rep.hubler@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Marlin Schneider (888) 529-0072
rep.schneider@legis.state.wi.us

Representative John Steinbrink (608)?266-0455
rep.steinbrink@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Terry Van Akkeren (608)?266-0656
rep.vanakkeren@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Amy Sue Vruwink (888) 534-0070
rep.vruwink@legis.state.wi.us

We should have a veto override session in the Senate very soon, to be followed by an override session in the Assembly.

Thanks,
The Wisconsin Concealed Carry Association

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MGLouie
January 20, 2006, 07:50 PM
I'm suprised he's vetoing it so soon. He must think we dont have the votes to override.

Keep us posted on when the override vote happens.

And a big THANK YOU to Dick for all the work.

Monkeyleg
January 20, 2006, 08:03 PM
MGLouie, I think the fact that he's doing this on a Friday night is very significant. As I said in the above post, last time around he announced the veto at a big press conference.

This suggests to me that he's not as certain that he has the votes to sustain his veto.

A supporter of the bill ran into Jeri Bonavia of the Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort last Tuesday after the Senate voted to concur with the bill as amended by the Assembly.

Jeri is usually pretty cocky about her group's chances of defeating the bill.

This time, when the supporter asked how she felt, she said "how do you think I feel??!!!" She wasn't happy.

Let's hope she's hearing some things that we're not.

Zundfolge
January 20, 2006, 08:12 PM
oops ... posted in the wrong thread :o

artjs
January 20, 2006, 08:28 PM
Well, at least we now know and don't have to stand around holding our hats in our hands waiting for Asshat to finally sign the veto.

On to the override vote Hi Yo Silver :neener:
Art

Standing Wolf
January 20, 2006, 09:20 PM
This Coloradan will send more E-mail messages.

I hope Wisconsin will fire that sorry excuse for a governor.

AJ Dual
January 20, 2006, 09:27 PM
Whups! Double-tap.

Sorry.

StopTheGrays
January 20, 2006, 09:35 PM
Mark Belling was ripping into "Dim" Jim Doyle this evening on his radio show. Basically calling his reasons for the veto stupid. Mark also informed his audience that WI was only 1 of 4 states with no CCW. He felt that it was unbelieveable that states like NY and Mass both have CCW while WI does not.

I have not heard Mark comment on CCW before so it was a surprise. Hopefully this will encourage more people to call their state reps and tell them to vote for the over ride.

AJ Dual
January 20, 2006, 09:35 PM
I agree with Monkeyleg . The late Friday veto to avoid the weekday news cycle is mildy encouraging.

It's something many politicians do. They know that news readership and viewership is low on the weekends, and by Monday, whatever embarassing thing it is that they want to downplay is "old news" and less likely to be re-hashed.

That could very well mean he hasn't gotten to any of our pro-CCW Democrats in the Assembly yet.

I would have thought He'd wait the maximum seven days so he could delay the override sessions as long as possible, and give him maximum time to work on any potential Judas he thought he could split off from the herd.

Perhaps this also means he knows there's no point in trying?

Either way, this is good news. :D

However, should there be another eleventh hour back-stab like last year, I at least take comfort that our chances are as close to 100% as possible should either Green or Walker win the Govenor's race this fall. (Many are quietly optimistic that the Republican primary is the only meaningful race for Govenor this year...)

Then it'll be time for the "REVENGE" edition of the PPA!

- Public signage requirements that make the famed TX "30.06" signs look like postcards.

- NO immunity for employers who ban CCW, but have a CCW holding employee injured by violent crime on the job.

- No training requirment.

- Permits good for 10 years.

- Permits are only $5.

- CCW on school property is legal for teachers, and parents of students.

- No bans on any public place.

- Bring it back up to .08 BAC.

- No "51% rule" on taverns or resturaunts.

- Universal reciprocity with any state's permits, and for anyone with a Vermont or Alaska's driver's license...

- Extra Verbiage to add "Castle Doctrine" language like Florida's, eliminating the "Duty to retreat".

- Anything else that will make anti's soil themselves that I can't think of right now...

Wow! Designing a PPA bill that dosen't need a supermajority is FUN!

They're better off overriding Gov. Doylet and passing it now. It's the best deal the anti's will ever get, IMO.

AJ Dual
January 20, 2006, 09:41 PM
Mark Belling has Commented on the PPA in the past, but not very often. I think his stated position on it is that he feels its asinine for the state of WI to allow people to own guns, recognize the right to self-defense, and codify the concept of the legitimate use of deadly force, but then only allow it in our homes.

Perhaps he'll give it a full segment's attention closer to the Assembly override vote. He's quite the policy wonk, so I'm sure he understands the tactical situation as well as we do.

BTW,

Did anyone in the Milwaukee TV area catch WTMJ Channel 4's CCW piece during the 6:30 news last evening?

I only caught the back-half, showing the shooters at a Racine indoor range, right after they finished with some LEO, I missed his comments (probably anti). It seemed like it actually may have been a fair piece.

Although, when the reporter handed back over to the Anchors, Carole Meekins looked like she'd swallowed a toad! LOL

http://www.tmj4.com/_content/about/profiles/meekins.jpg

SomeKid
January 20, 2006, 10:52 PM
Does this affect Open Carry any?

As is, I understand open carry to be legal on foot, but not in your car.

I know they have a reciprocity provision, so as soon as it is passed, TN recognizes theirs, and they recognize ours. (Unless that got changed too.)

AJ Dual
January 20, 2006, 11:38 PM
Does this affect Open Carry any?

If you mean "Open Carry in WI" as in: Legal, but you'll still get arrested for "something or another" in all but the most remote areas or your own land...

No, it does not.

Reciprocity will be with any state the WI DOJ determines has the same or better background check as we do. Presumably this means the usual state+FBI check.

Monkeyleg
January 21, 2006, 02:49 AM
AJ Dual, if you or anyone else knows people on Belling's staff, please contact them and urge them to do non-stop coverage of the CCW issue.

If it weren't for Mark Belling, the gas tax indexing bill never would have passed. Belling devoted three entire days to harassing legislators.

I know some people who work with Charlie Sykes, and they're pressing him to cover the CCW bill relentlessly.

After talking to some inside folks, here's what I've gathered about Doyle's Friday night veto: he's not as strong as he was last session. He doesn't know if he has the votes, and he doesn't know if his bribes/strongarm tactics are working.

And he doesn't want to rile up folks in the two legislative districts that are critical--Sheboygan and Kenosha. That's why he waited until nobody was looking before he vetoed the bill.

We have less than two weeks before this is all over.

During that time, we have to get people in Sheboygan (Van Akkeren's district) and southeastern Kenosha county (Steinbrink's district) to really apply the pressure. Polite, thank-you-very-much-for-your-support, but definitely pressure.

While nobody in the Capitol has suggested to me that we worry about her, I do: Rep. Mary Hubler. She was the author of the Assembly amendment dealing with school property, blood alcohol content, lying on an application for a permit, and refresher training courses.

She swore before the NRA, the media, and God that she would vote for a veto override if her amendment was accepted.

Well, the Democrats didn't expect the NRA to accept her amendment, and that's what has me worried.

She has an F rating from the NRA.

On the other hand, she just voted to override Doyle's veto on medical malpractice lawsuit caps.

Why is Hubler allowed to cross Doyle? Don't know. What does she want from the NRA? Don't know.

All I know is that we have maybe two weeks in which to give Steinbrink, Van Akkeren and Hubler a "come to Jesus" revalation.

IOW, we're either going to get the 66 votes we need, or we're going to fall short with just 65.

To quote Sean Connery from The Untouchables: "What are you prepared to do about it?"

This is the closest WI has ever come to passing a shall-issue CCW law. Even closer than the 2003/2004 session. The chances of somebody pulling a "Gary Sherman" are far less, and for a number of reasons.

One reason we saw was tonight, when Doyle showed that he didn't have the political backing to veto the bill at a large press conference.

The other reasons are private, and behind the scenes.

Please, everyone in WI, keep the pressure on. If you have any ideas on how we can politely increase the pressure, please email me at dick.baker@wisconsinconcealedcarry.com.

There is absolutely no reason why we cannot win this year. Unless, of course, some folks give up the fight before the battle is even won.

SomeKid
January 21, 2006, 03:23 AM
If you mean "Open Carry in WI" as in: Legal, but you'll still get arrested for "something or another" in all but the most remote areas or your own land...



Not to sound rude, but people tell me all the time down here in TN that if I open carry, I will be harrassed, and arrested. It doesn't happen. Are you basing this statement on it has happened facts, or the fear-mongering a lot of us do to each other?

If it is based on facts, how loudly did the mistreated complain?

Waitone
January 21, 2006, 03:28 AM
Monkeyleg,

Is it too late to introduce legislation which will prohibit the expenditure of state funds for personal security for the governor? Won't get any where but it sure can be used in the media to make a point. :evil:

MGLouie
January 21, 2006, 04:22 AM
To quote Sean Connery from The Untouchables: "What are you prepared to do about it?"


The day after if it does'nt pass the Assembly override vote.

Monkeyleg
January 21, 2006, 04:28 AM
Waitone, believe it or not, there is actually a bill pending that would put the cost for the governor's private security detail into his office's budget, rather than into general funding.

I wish that I could provide photographs of Milwaukee Mayor Barrett's car. His predecessor--Mayor Tom Norquist--had two drop-down panels installed in the roof of his car. Each held a full-auto M16A2.

I do not doubt for one minute that Barrett is using the same car, or the same drop-down panels.

I'm so sick of this double-standard I could scream.

Monkeyleg
January 21, 2006, 05:01 AM
MGLouie: "The day after if it does'nt pass the Assembly override vote."

Please don't make idle threats, or even threats of any kind. One single threatening post on an internet gun forum can set us back months or even years.

This is all political. We may think that our legislators are evaluating the bill on the merits of the ability of citizens to defend themselves against violent criminals, but those legislators are not doing so.

They're weighing their risk/reward position. For Republicans, there's almost no risk, since many are only seeking to embarass the governor.

For the few Democrats who have voted for this bill--and for voting to override Doyle in the 2003/2004 session--this is a question of risk versus reward.

Doyle offers his risk/reward in the form of punishing any Democrat who votes for the override, or bribing any Democrat who flips.

We offer a risk/reward based on this: vote with the governor, and the NRA will eviscerate you come the fall elections; vote with us and you'll get 100% support.

I'll give you an example: Democrat Representative Mike Sheridan from Janesville.

His predecessor--Democrat Representative Wayne Wood--always voted for pro-gun bills, including the CCW bill. In Janesville, you don't vote against gun owners.

Sheridan thinks he can walk the fine line between union support and gun owner support.

Here's $5 that says Sheridan gets booted out of office in the next election.

Let's keep our eyes on the prize: CCW for Wisconsin. It's so close I can taste it.

Ryder
January 21, 2006, 05:28 AM
"The bill does not create a single job, help a single Wisconsin citizen afford health care, or improve schools for a single Wisconsin child," Doyle said in a statement. "The Legislature should spend more time trying to get jobs into our communities instead of more guns."


I didn't know tourism was worthless. I'll be sure to give my reason for avoiding his state to those La Crosse and Dells telemarketers next time they call.

Matthew748
January 21, 2006, 08:02 AM
I am sorry to hear about your setback Wisconsin. Like most things guns related, the concerns and woes of the opposition are founded upon ignorance and misinformation.

As far as the Governorís comment about not creating any jobs, wasnít one stipulation of the bill a training requirement? Surely that would create new jobs.

Stauffenberg
January 21, 2006, 05:26 PM
Did anyone in the Milwaukee TV area catch WTMJ Channel 4's CCW piece during the 6:30 news last evening?

I only caught the back-half, showing the shooters at a Racine indoor range, right after they finished with some LEO, I missed his comments (probably anti). It seemed like it actually may have been a fair piece.

Although, when the reporter handed back over to the Anchors, Carole Meekins looked like she'd swallowed a toad! LOL

http://www.tmj4.com/_content/about/profiles/meekins.jpg

HA! I just moved into Milwaukee's lower east side (around Brady Street), and yeah, I definitely caught that. Gave me a chuckle.

Monkeyleg
January 21, 2006, 07:24 PM
From today's Journal Sentinel:

>>>Doyle aide Dan Leistikow said the governor is optimistic it won't become law.

"We never want to make predictions, but at the end of the day, the governor does not believe legislators are going to want hidden guns in banks and on playgrounds and even in school zones," as the bill would allow in limited circumstances, Leistikow said.<<<

Have these bozo's even read the bill? Did the reporter read the bill? If he had, he should have called BS on that statement.

Old Fuff
January 21, 2006, 08:22 PM
Have these bozo's even read the bill? Did the reporter read the bill? If he had, he should have called BS on that statement.

Maybe yes, probably no...

But it doesn't matter to them. Both have an adgenda, and the facts or truth doesn't concern them. But the bottom line is that both are worried enough so they feel a need to be less then truthful. Ultimately the legislators' concern will be; "who can deliver money, and who controls votes?"

But for the Democrats, the issue goes much farther then your state. To be a NATIONAL PARTY they have to win back enough "fly-over" states to get majorities in the U.S. House and Senate, and elect a president. What they are doing may make the local left-wingers feel warm and fuzzy, but it will have a negative impact in other states beyond Wisconsin where they need to start winning.

This of course does not make your situation any better, except that it never hurts to point out the facts of life. It is generally acknowledged that the party's stand on gun control helped insure that John Kerry wouldn't be our current president and the Democrats wouldn't control Congress.

Even Bill Clinton has admitted such... :evil:

xd9fan
January 22, 2006, 11:28 PM
God I hope my "bothers-in-arms" next door to me get this.
Its still sad that we have to beg "lawvoters" to give "we the people" a means to protect our families......

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