[holycrikey]

Hello all. First time poster here. I've searched around and can't seem to find the answer I'm looking for.

I'm a small, lanky, 20 yr old guy. About 5'11", 135 lbs. Skinny definitely describes me. I'm about to turn 21 and I can't wait to purchase a firearm for target shooting. I've been shooting since I was about 13. Usually small calibers. Thousands of rounds of .22's, a good two-three thousand of .38, and I tried a few other common rounds such as the .375 Mag (which was far too powerful for me at the time back then). I want a gun for personal protection, and I'm looking to get a concealed license down the road. But again, this is mainly just hobby. I'm really interested in the CZ 75 P-01. I love the weight and overall feel. However, I can't find one to test out. In fact, I've never fired a 9mm or .40 S&W cartridge. Is anyone else out there a pretty skinny and lanky guy? If so, what calibers do you recommend or use yourself?

My problem is that obviously .22 ammo would be the best for target practice, and is easiest on the wallet. However, because this will be my first firearm, and because I have a high possibility of entering a criminal justice field such as probation work, I might as well become accustomed to some larger, more common law enforcement calibers.

How is the recoil of most 9mm rounds? How does it compare to the .40 S&W? Any recommendations would be great.

Also, can anyone suggest other model lines? I'm very impressed with CZ thus far. My knowledge of the range of company's guns is limited. I guess I'd say I'm pretty novice as I've never bought a gun, though I've fired a good deal. My price range is up to about $450.

Hope this post isn't too noobish, and hopefully this wasn't asking in other threads.

[R.O.F]

Ahhh, if you have shot a firearm, there is no need to consider yourself a noob. I felt like I was reading my firearms biography when reading your situation.

I started at .22 at 12 years old, 20 gauge by 15, .22mag by 17, 12 gauge by 18, .22 S&W pistol at 21, AR-15 at 24, 2 9mm's by 26, and now I'm shopping for the next.

A 9mm will suit you fine. I was hesitant on the recoil at first myself, and it did surprise me at first. Don't look at the recoil though, focus on sight picture and control, and recoil all but goes away. I just bought my CZ75 3 days ago and its great. If I may suggest though, my first 9mm was a Springfield XD-9 service model. I would suggest that myself if I had to do it all over again. The CZ is a terriffic gun, but the simplicity of the XD (Or a Glock for that matter) is a decent learning experience in itself. Being "small and lanky" as you put it has nothing to do with anything. You could handle any caliber if you wanted to.
Bottom line, if you gave me a budget to buy a gun for YOU, here is what I'd come back with:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-service.shtml

[Rubikees]

My wife is 5'6" and 105 soaking wet, and she loves to fire the .44 mag. That said, if you might be entering the criminal justice system then I would suggest the .40 cal weapons. I little more pop than the 9mm but has a lot more stopping power than the 9mm. I have heard to many horror stories about the lack of knock down power of the 9mm, some loaded with hydroshocks, when dealing with drugged up attackers.

[sgist]

Welcome. You certainly have nothing to fear about your size when it comes to choosing you first "big" pistol. If you have weak grip strength you could get grip exercisers at the sporting goods store. Your preference for CZ's is fine, though you would likely find a lot more company in Europe than here, as they are very popular over there. You might be able to find a rental at a local range. Or hang out at the CZ forum. Which brings up another possibility. Have you seen that CZ has bought out Dan Wesson and is producing 1911's? They are not in your price range, but it is possible to get a 1911 in that range, though it would likely be Filipino, but could lead you into a whole nother world of possibilities in target pistols down the road. The CZ is a fine pistol, and I am sure you would not go wrong with it. For a target pistol, though, you might think about a 5 inch gun with adjustable sights. For personal protection you are usually talking about something smaller and less snag-prone. If you are talking about duty pistols, it seems that most police departments use Sigs, and you might start there. There are some police department trade-ins floating around now in gun stores at the $450 price point. And the 40 is a good deal more snappy than the 9 if recoil is important.

[armoredman]

The CZ PCR will do you quite well, a superb pistol at a price far below it's relative worth, IMHO! Well done!
Welcome to the world of responsable firearms carriers.

[WillBrayJr]

Springfield Armory's XD series are excellent and reasonably priced. This makes sense really when you think about it.

XD-9 Service model (Duty)
XD-9 Subcompact model (Off Duty)

You get the picture don't you?

[holycrikey]

Wow, thanks for all the positive replies thus far! I have indeed been looking at the Springfield XD's as well as the glocks. When fit into my hand, the Glocks seemed a bit bulky and out of place. I couldn't quite seem to get a good grip. Therefore, I guess I never really tried looking at any other polymer models. I'll have to look that way.

Also, would there be any advantage to a ported model? I've heard that for target practice, it usually detracts from re-aiming and firing, even though it does lower fire-to-fire times with the softer recoil.

My other concern was that all these polymer models have no external safety. I've always been one that likes a physical switch to prevent the trigger from being pulled. A bit more peace of mind I assume. I've always been one for needing maximum safety when dealing with guns (I assume this is what I learned from my father.) I definitely understand the advantage of a trigger safety in the form of needing to fully engage it to fire, but I'm just unsure of this "new" type of safety to me.

Welp, when I can finally purchase my first gun, I'll let you guys know what I got. Luckily, my girlfriend's cousin works and co-owns a gun shop, so hopefully discounts are in the near future for me :)

[WillBrayJr]

Porting is effective for rounds like 40S&W and 357sig.
Porting works by allowing some of the gas behind the slug to excape out of two holes in the barrel which the excaping gas pushes the muzzle down reducing felt recoil. Both 9mm and 45acp have little to no recoil.

Don't worry about external safeties. XDs are what people call (idiot proof). What this means is that even a person with no brains can safely handle in the gun in question.

[R.O.F]

I started off with the ported service XD, on the way home, I stopped to fire off a few rounds. those few rounds turned out to be only 1. I didn't have hearing protection and the bang about dropped me to my knees. I was deaf in my right ear for 3 days.
I traded that one in for the non-ported model a week later. It's not nearly as loud, and thus you can fire off a few rounds without your ears bleeding if you don't have plugs or muffs handy.
I too was hesitant on the lack of external safeties when I got it, but as you get familiar with the pistol, it isn't such a big deal anymore.

Good luck in your search.

[Jim Watson]

9mm is a good first centerfire autopistol choice. Ammo is cheap, recoil moderate, and power adequate for self defense (with good JHPs.)

It does not need superfluous holes in the barrel.

CZ75 is a good choice. Trigger reach is long for a double action start but rather short in single action from cocked and locked.

There are others, just go for a name brand and some hope of quality and reliability; then study, train, and practice.

[kart racer]

I have an xd and a pcr,I'm also thin,5 7 145 pounds,the pcr is excellent-in my opinion easier to carry than the xd.next to a 22,a 9mm would probably be the cheapest to shoot,unless you want to reload.

[carebear]

You hit it on the head when you mentioned I couldn't quite seem to get a good grip.

If the gun fits your hand properly all the other recoil issues can be dealt with with proper technique. Make sure the weapon doesn't require you to cant the weapon onto your thumb knuckle to reach the trigger and, if DA/SA, you can get the pad or first crease of the finger squarely on the trigger. Make sure the grip circumference doesn't prevent you from getting a full grip on it.

All else is training.

[Glockman17366]

Since you're considering CCW (I do hope you follow through...just make sure you're mature enough for carrying a gun), I'd sure consider a .38 snubby.
I like Taurus, but I'd go for any light weight (<15 oz) revolver.

[Illuminaughty]

Get a hi point. Cheap (100 bucks for a used 40 or 45, 80 for a lightly used 9mm or 380) and reliable (lifetime warranty without question), and I've never had a jam as long as I've had my .45 (about a year of intermittent target practice). Compare to how many jams you've heard about expensive guns, you be the judge.

Everyone gun snob alive or person influenced easily by gun snobs will tell you to stay away from them, even though they'll have no experience with them. Listen to people who've owned them and used them, you'll hear good things.

[CB900F]

Holy;

The .40 S&W has the same maximum SAAMI operating pressure cap as the .357 magnum, 35,000 psi. Whereas a typical .357 defence load might be 125 gr bullet at 1400 fps muzzle, a typical .40 will be 180 gr bullet at 1000 fps. You are not going to notice a lot of difference between the two.

My personal opinion, the 9mm is a milder recoiler, the .40 is much more effective in terminal ballistics. There are arguments about this though you understand. Different opinions are held, with great vigor, noise, mit sturm und drang, and flames too, believe it or not.

If you are seriously thinking of entering law enforcement, by all means, adopt the .40.

If you are seriously thinking of concealing the gun, by all means, stay far far away from the Hi-point. The Hi-Point is a blow-back gun, not a locked breech. That means the slide is massive in order to provide the inertia to delay the action opening up until the bullet has left the barrel & pressures drop. The alternative would seem to be developing a believable tale of why you're just pregnant on the right side. The male thing might compromise that explanation too.

:D 900F

[WillBrayJr]

Get a hi point. Cheap (100 bucks for a used 40 or 45, 80 for a lightly used 9mm or 380) and reliable (lifetime warranty without question), and I've never had a jam as long as I've had my .45 (about a year of intermittent target practice). Compare to how many jams you've heard about expensive guns, you be the judge.

Everyone gun snob alive or person influenced easily by gun snobs will tell you to stay away from them, even though they'll have no experience with them. Listen to people who've owned them and used them, you'll hear good things.


Hi-Points are like Cobray PM-11s or Tec-9s. They're inexpensive range toys. Zinc alloy is not even a decent metal for gun building. Hi-Points are reinforced with steel in critical areas from what I understand. Hi-Point's 40 and 45cal handguns are damn near the size of the Desert Eagle and weight almost as much.

I guess you could do a David King from R.E. Outbreak and tape it to a pipe to create a hammer:D

[Furncliff]

My daughter is 22, small frame, small hands. She has come up thru the calibers fairly quickly, she's on 9mm now, just up from S&W 38special. The 9mm is a CZ 75b. The pistol was $350 lightly used, built like a tank, fun to shoot. It has a snappy recoil, but you will have no problem with it. Look into the CZ , I think you'll like it, and it's alot of gun for the money.

P.S.The orginal factory rubber grips are terriffic.

[CAnnoneer]

Welcome to THR. You can learn a LOT here. I did.

My suggestions:
1. Only buy what you have tried and fired at the range.
2. Shoot the maximal caliber that you feel comfortable with.
3. Among the guns you can rent and try, select a couple you like and ask about them here in THR. That way, you can stay clear of the lemons.

9mm is among the weaker kickers, so don't worry about recoil in the long run. It may be startling at first, but it gets pretty manageable with practice. A colleague of mine of your build is a big glockomaniac and shoots 9mm only, so you should not be too skinny for it.

[MEDDAC19]

I don't think you would be wrong to pick a CZ gun. I have the CZ 2075 RAMI in .40 S&W, the RAMI is the CZ subcompact and conceals very well. I picked this gun up for summer carry, I use a Colt 1991A1 compact in the winter.

All my friends that have tried this pistol love the way it handles, and the recoil is not bad at all. The RAMI is very accurate and shoots better than I can. I have put several hundred rounds through it without any problems. I feel safe using it for SD. Some people have a little trouble reaching the trigger on the CZ guns.

I think you should definitly handle and fire as many guns as you can before you decide what to buy. It doesn't matter what we think or say because everyone has different hands and opinions. Choose the gun you like and the one that feels right for you.

[Baba Louie]

Maybe a Kadet kit to go with a 75?
http://www.cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=35
Just a thought...

Find a range nearby that rents, take an NRA intro class, try 9's mfg by several different makers, practice. (after you turn 21)

And Welcome to THR hc.

[Tequila_Sauer]

I'd take the CZ over a Glock or XD. It was my first. Dead accurate, shoots everything, easy to maintain, manual safety, etc and NO PROBLEMS.........EVER!

CZ is one of the best around today. It's just my opinion and it's about as biased as they come. I don't particularly like Glocks.

But even if you asked the question, without mentioning that you were interested in CZ, "What gun would be a great value for a first time owner?" My reply would be a CZ. And I can guarantee that 10 years from now, even though it was your first, it will still be one of your favorites and will have outlasted a majority of your other pistols.

Edit: I think it goes without saying, but I'll add that you should definitely handle and fire any gun before you buy it. Part of the reason I don't like Glocks is because they are incredibly uncomfortable in my hands. I'm 6 foot 2 inches, 175 pounds, and those suckers hurt when they go bang.

[Jiml3]

Go for the CZ PCR. Excellent value. Totally reliable and light weight. Conceals well.

[vynx]

Heres another idea.

Beretta 9000s in .40 ... i was a 1911 .45 guy but picked up the Beretta because it was on sale for $360 new w/2 mags.

I never shot a .40 or aa beretta before but now I love the .40 follow-ep is faster and that little Beretta has about the right combination of size and weight.

[zookrider]

Another vote for the CZ, I bought my first CZ last month and could not be happier:D . Coming up on 500 rounds through it and not a hiccup either with various cheap plinking ammo or the CORBON 125 grain JHP's I use for SD. I already have my eyes on a RAMI for the coming summer.

[45crittergitter]

I'm 5'8" and around 125-130#. I carry a 5" 1911 frequently in an IWB holster. I finally sprang for a lightweight model, but stayed with the full size 5" gun. I have found it to work well for me.

[mule157]

new posting here so i wanted to say high to everyone one opinion to your question cz75 9mm i own two czs one 85 combat in 9mm and 1 75 in 9mm i love them both i use to think i needed a 1000.00 sa or colt but i can outshoot both of mine with my 85, just remember if your dropping that kind of cash its safe to say you cant go wrong with any name brand pistol but make sure you get your moneys worth

[Kurt_M]

Don't let size hold you back. I'm only 5'7" 140 lbs, and the .44 Mag is one of my favorite calibers. .45 ACP tops it by just a hair, mostly because it's the cartridge for my favorite platform, the 1911. :) The 9mm's recoil isn't bad, if .38 didn't give you any trouble then 9mm surely won't. The .40's recoil isn't bad in a full size pistol like the Beretta 96, that's all I've ever shot it in. If you have trouble holding onto the gun during recoil, work on your hand and wrist strength. Check out "Mastery of Hand Strength" (http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1273) and "The Grip Masters Manual" (http://www6.mailordercentral.com/ironmind/prodinfo.asp?number=1283) by John Brookfield. I've always had a naturally strong grip, but after doing some of those exercises, my hands are stronger than most. Thanks to that fact, recoil from even a .44 Mag is no big deal. If it can work for my skinny behind, it could work for yours. ;)

To answer your other question, CZ is an outstanding choice for a first gun. In that price range there aren't many others I can recommend besides maybe the Springfield XD. The most important thing is how well the gun fits you. Go to a gunshop that has a good staff (and bring your parents, otherwise they can't show you anything) and hold a few. Buy the one you can afford that feels the best. Then get a few hundred rounds and go to the range. Have fun. :)