U.S. Navy captures suspected pirates


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280PLUS
January 22, 2006, 04:07 PM
Attributed to Rueters. Taken from msn.com...

U.S. Navy captures suspected pirates
Small arms found aboard vessel intercepted off Somalia coast

Updated: 10:55 p.m. ET Jan. 21, 2006
DUBAI - U.S. Navy vessels pursued a suspected pirate ship in the Indian Ocean off Somalia’s coast and fired warning shots to capture its crew on Saturday, U.S. Navy Forces Central Command said.

The guided missile destroyer Winston S. Churchill and other U.S. naval forces located the vessel after receiving a report of an attempted act of piracy, but it failed to respond to orders to stop.

“Churchill began aggressive maneuvering in an attempt to stop the vessel. The vessel continued on its course and speed. (Then) Churchill fired warning shots,” said a Navy statement.

“(Later) Churchill fired additional warning shots, and at that time the crew of the suspect pirate vessel established communications by radio and indicated that they would begin sending personnel to the Churchill via their small boat in tow.”

The crewmembers were seized and U.S. Navy sailors who boarded the vessel discovered small-arms weapons on board, the statement said. It did not say how many suspects were held.

Piracy has become epidemic in the unpatrolled waters off the coast of lawless Somalia, where at least 23 hijackings and attempted seizures have been reported since mid-March.

Somalia has been without a central government since 1991, when rival warlords ousted Mohamed Siad Barre.

In November, the Somali government signed a two-year deal worth $50 million with a U.S. marine security firm in a bid to end piracy.

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White Horseradish
January 22, 2006, 04:14 PM
Somalia has a government? Who knew...

Seven High
January 22, 2006, 04:19 PM
Does Somalia have a central government now? Will the pirates be taken there to stand trial? What is the penalty for piracy? I know what it should be!

Optical Serenity
January 22, 2006, 04:21 PM
Nice...Go Navy!

And I will wager to say that I highly doubt Somalia has an actual government, at least not with the standards we would expect. Whatever happens, lets try to avoid another bad conflict over there.

Delmar
January 22, 2006, 04:36 PM
"Whatever happens, lets try to avoid another bad conflict over there."

I agree, but if we do end up over there again, I'd sure like to see the thing done right this time.
I find it very hard to believe that Clinton sent spec ops into the place to capture some bad guys and did not think they were going to get a violent reaction.

Pulling out after that infamous firefight is something no decent soldier is gonna stand for and should not be made to.

Pirates?? I can't imagine a somali saying "Arrrrgh"

el44vaquero
January 22, 2006, 04:38 PM
I feel better to know this monster has been caught by our navy boys.
http://www.temptationcharters.net/images/cpn_crunch_haworth.gif

FRIENDLY
January 22, 2006, 06:01 PM
dont US ships still have a yardarm to hang pirates from?

torpid
January 22, 2006, 06:14 PM
Time for the "Q-ships" again.
:D

WT
January 22, 2006, 06:23 PM
Q-ships would be an economically viable option compared to the "guided missile destroyer Winston S. Churchill and other U.S. naval forces."

However, since Somalia spent $50 million on private security forces, they should be tagged with the bill for the Q-ships.

I will sleep well tonight knowing that these 'pirates' will not be raiding villages on Long Island Sound.

280PLUS
January 22, 2006, 07:55 PM
dont US ships still have a yardarm to hang pirates from? They did when I was in...

I recall a time when sitting at the pier near us was an old WWII destroyer that we had given to some Middle Eastern Country. I think it was Pakistan but I do not remember. (late 70s) There was an Arab crew on it learning how to run the thing. One day one of the crew went to the Exchange, stole some cassette tapes and got caught. The Captain wanted to hang him in port because of the embarrasment he had caused and this was their way of saving face. The U.S. Gov would not allow this. They got underway, went out to international waters, did what they thought necessary and came back into port with him hanging from the mast pretty well dead.

And now the important question. What caliber for pirates?

:evil:

Standing Wolf
January 22, 2006, 10:16 PM
What caliber for pirates?

Ammunition is too expensive for pirates. Rope will do very well.

gunsmith
January 22, 2006, 10:31 PM
the movie will be rated ARRRGH! so don't take the kids!

280PLUS
January 23, 2006, 07:30 AM
Ammunition is too expensive for pirates. Rope will do very well.

LOL. good point. OK then, what ROPE for pirates...

:D

robert garner
January 23, 2006, 07:50 AM
HEMP!!!
Hang em High!

MikeIsaj
January 23, 2006, 08:24 AM
Somalia has been without a central government since 1991...
In November, the Somali government signed a two-year deal
Huh?:confused:

Igloodude
January 23, 2006, 08:57 AM
dont US ships still have a yardarm to hang pirates from?

USS Winston S. Churchill does, and that's all that matters.

MillCreek
January 23, 2006, 12:02 PM
What I want to seriously know is that since an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer does not have a brig, I wonder where they stow the pirates. In a storage locker?

It reminds me of a question I once asked my wife, the HMC (SW), who did two IDC tours on Spruance-class destroyers. I asked if someone died at sea, would they still do the traditional burial at sea? She told me that in peacetime, she was required to put the body in a body bag, stow the bag in one of the mess walk-in freezers, and bring it back for an autopsy or burial. She said that she fortunately never had to do this, since she would have dreaded having to break the news to the Chief Culinary Specialist.

waterhouse
January 23, 2006, 12:09 PM
Do any of you Navy folk know the rules of engagement for this sort of thing, or is it a case by case basis?

In the movies the big ship fires the warning shots across the bow, and then the little boat stops and allows the big ship's crew to board/inspect/arrest.

What happens if the little boat doesn't stop? Can the big ship shoot it until it sinks, or what?

wallysparx
January 23, 2006, 12:23 PM
from what i understand, there is a government in exile in one the neighboring countries. whether they have any actual influence in somalia or not is anyone's guess. hopefully it's not another case like allawi, who somehow managed to con the gubmint into giving him all sorts of support even if no one in iraq seemed to like him all that much.

ETCss Phil McCrackin
January 23, 2006, 01:14 PM
The ROE is different for every theatre of operations, for instance on submarines in port in the US, warning shots are not authorized at all. But when at sea, warning shots with one of the belt-fed weapons stationed in the sail are authorized across the bow of vessels considered dangerous.

Now, keeping in mind the mission of the units in the Somalia AOR, the Churchill and her accompianing units are probably authorized warning shots across the bow (or the less dramatic sounding, in front of..) of vessels of interest in order to "persuade" them to stop and be inspected. Those warning shots would be taken with either the 5 inch foreward, or one of the .50's. I don't remember if Burke's have any 20 or 25 mm's or not.

Boats
January 23, 2006, 04:33 PM
In the late 80s we were ordered to intercept and stop a freighter suspected of ferrying Silkworm missiles to Iran. We found the contact, caught up to it after two hours at flank speed, and then merely matched course and speed as we hailed them over and over.

We then called up the chain of command for authority for the use of force to effectuate a search in international waters. As I was Boatswain's Mate of the Watch for general quarters, I got to hear the whole thing. We called Bahrain, where the local theater command was, and got permission to put shots across the bow from the 5/54 forward gun mount. After the requisite rehailing on all channels, morse flashing, and even a PA hailing attempt to have them stand down or be fired upon, the Captain opened up the range somewhat and authorized opening fire. The gun mount warning bell rang. Boom. One inert dummy round splashes the water twice about 50 and 300 yards off their bow because we had such a severe deflection towards the surface on the water. The freighter's crew came around to seeing things our way and slowed to a halt and our ship's reaction force boarded them for a search.

No Silkworms were found. Everyone was photographed and identified to the extent possible, with that info being radioed in. No one was detained, but the ship's country of registration and owners were told of their non-compliance.

I imagine that were we to have captured pirates, and since we had no formal brig, that one of two things would have been done. One would be, depending on their number, to create a brig out a space suitable to the task, perhaps the forward common area and head as they were two easy to defend compartments alongside one another. The second option would be to put them zipcorded together on the fantail in a group with armed guards.

I imagine that the same lack of space and scarcity of shipboard resources for "guests" led to many shipboard hanging of pirates back in the day when the option remained to turn them over to a governor or the admiralty for trial and a shorebased execution.

countertop
January 23, 2006, 04:43 PM
Do they still make them "walk the plank"??

280PLUS
January 23, 2006, 04:49 PM
Do they still make them "walk the plank"?? I thought I'd heard somewhere that "walking the plank" never happened. Keelhauling however...

:eek:

Thefabulousfink
January 23, 2006, 04:59 PM
Somalia has a government? Who knew...

If I recall, the northern half of Somalia is actually very calm and organized. They tried to split from the rest of Somalia in the mid-1990's but the UN (in their infinite wisdom) refused to recognize them.:rolleyes:

MD_Willington
January 23, 2006, 05:17 PM
Does Somalia have a central government now? Will the pirates be taken there to stand trial? What is the penalty for piracy? I know what it should be!


They will be acquited and in return for their false arrest they will each be awarded a shiny new technical, aka Landcruiser with a 23mm gun...

PCGS65
January 23, 2006, 05:37 PM
Ammunition is too expensive for pirates. Rope will do very well.
+1 Yes then tow them behind the boat for shark bait! :evil:

280PLUS
January 23, 2006, 09:16 PM
Now you want a story about sharkbait?

:evil:

pete f
January 24, 2006, 04:20 AM
Some very good friends of mine were sailing a new Cheoy lee sailboat back from Taiwan and ran into some unwanted company. This happened last summer 05' and were aware of some of the issues facing them and in asking around the boat yard were able to secure some items of self protection. They had gotten past luzon and were heading past mindano when two boats started to follow them about 3 miles astern. They were heading for Truk island and then to american samoa. When they sped up the other boats sped up, when they slowed down, the tails slowed down.
Finally they headed for open water, and were thinking the others would not follow, careful use of binoculars had shown that the boats were armed and not showing any flag, name, or number. That night they had the radar operating and the larger of the two boats passed them with no running lights and got in a position where they could cut off the new yacht. By now my friends had the self defense ideas in place, they turned full on to the smaller boat and were only 1000 yards away when the smaller boat turned to and started shooting at the new boat, The larger boat was now alerted and tried to join the fight. but the smaller boat was hit several times by my friends, and a star flare was launched at them which the smaller boat must have thought was a RPG and the small boat took off at full speed for points east. the larger boat was now closing, both friends took aim and fired long bursts into the attacking boat and the fight seemed to have left the attackers. Despite the pirates shooting several magazines at the new boat at ranges that at times were down to under a hundred yards. the new boat sufferd but one bullet hole to the hull, and two to the jib that was flying at the time. The older of my two friends and one who has sailed most of the worlds waters as a crew on several ocean racers and americas cup contenders, has decided that he will no longer sail outside of "friendly waters". the younger is currently in Taipei working on fitting out a 90 something maxi racer for a chinese industrialist. My understanding is the bare hull and deck weighed under 9000 pounds completed, and will hang a 32000 pound lead keel that will swing from side to side to have a better angle of attack to the water, as well as water ballast to keep the hull flater on the water despite the press of sail. He said tho that this hull will be shipped be frieghter to its destinations.

LAK
January 24, 2006, 08:28 AM
The crewmembers were seized and U.S. Navy sailors who boarded the vessel discovered small-arms weapons on board, the statement said. It did not say how many suspects were held.
Boutros ByGolly! Small arms? On a private or commercial ship in international waters!?

Just some initial observations; why no mention of the vessel and flag of the accusers, or the nature of the alleged piracy attempt.

Who - or what court - is going to exercize jurisdiction in this case I wonder.
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280PLUS
January 24, 2006, 09:26 AM
Who - or what court - is going to exercize jurisdiction in this case I wonder. I vote for King Neptune and his court...

j/k

jjjjj/k

:evil:

walking arsenal
January 24, 2006, 12:17 PM
All i can say is that i'd hate to be keel hauled by a Navy Destroyer. I could see that pretty much sucking saltwater.

In the movies the big ship fires the warning shots across the bow, and then the little boat stops and allows the big ship's crew to board/inspect/arrest.

Lord Helmet "Careful you idiots, i said across her nose, not up it!"

Major ??????? (cross eyed, gunner) "Sorry sir, i'm doing my best."


he he he, classic.

JMusic
January 24, 2006, 05:41 PM
I'm not a Navy guy but what about torpedoes? You wouldn't need a brig.

280PLUS
January 24, 2006, 06:17 PM
Ok, how many torpedo guys think they could hit one of those small boats? Is it pretty much aim and shoot or can we guide them? I'm talking about the ones they put on destroyers(or use to). I think we caled them MK 42s.

walking arsenal
January 25, 2006, 02:23 AM
Is it a good idea to shoot pirates from torpedo tubes? I bet accuracy would be terrible. :D

JMusic
January 25, 2006, 02:28 AM
I thought they were wire guided. As far as shooting pirates I think it is a good idea to shoot them with whatever you can.:)
Jim

MillCreek
January 25, 2006, 01:41 PM
Is it a good idea to shoot pirates from torpedo tubes? I bet accuracy would be terrible. :D

Now that was funny.

oweno
January 25, 2006, 03:06 PM
I was watching a show the other night on the Discovery? channel about a merchantman sailing around Hong Kong, etc. One night (neither dark nor stormy) they picked up on radar a small ship that they thought might be a pirate. Having no weapons, the captain had his crew man the aft deck with - get this - a fire hose to defend their ship. A fire hose!

And I thought that bringing a knife to a gunfight was dumb.

Turns out that the contact was a fishing boat and all was well but even so ...

Boats
January 25, 2006, 03:12 PM
A firehose, in the absence of something more lethal, is a pretty capable anti-boarding weapon. Even the US Navy keeps them at the ready, when trouble in anticipated, for use against civilian demonstrators. We had ours at the ready in anticipation of anti-nuke protestors in Australia in the late 80's. You just charge them up and leave them laying on the deck. They will repel anyone no matter their physical strength.

If you have ever handled or been on the receiving end of a opened up firehose, you wouldn't think it so pathetic.

For the freighter, the tactic wouldn't be to confront pirates while they were on their own boat, but to knock them off as they tried to clamber over the lifelines of their freighter. Gravity would generally take care of the killing and wounding required to end the attack while depriving the priates an angle of attack with their rifles or whatnot.

MillCreek
January 25, 2006, 04:02 PM
Back when I was doing the paramedic thing, we had a few calls involving mentally-disturbed persons holding us at bay by threatening suicide with a knife or sword. I can testify from personal experience that if you open up a 2.5" firehose on someone, it will sweep them right off their feet, and the knife or sword ends up a pretty good distance away as well. This enables you to run in and secure the patient without injury to themselves or you.

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 06:59 PM
A firehose, in the absence of something more lethal, is a pretty capable anti-boarding weapon. Even the US Navy keeps them at the ready, when trouble in anticipated, for use against civilian demonstrators. We had ours at the ready in anticipation of anti-nuke protestors in Australia in the late 80's. New Zealand, late 70's, Greenpeace in canoes trying to block our entrance to the harbor. Swamped 'em all...

:D

oweno
January 25, 2006, 07:00 PM
I understand that a firehose will indeed knock a man off his feet (or off a ship for that matter) but to use it as your primary (heck, ONLY) defensive weapon against bad guys who have things like AK-47s and RPGs and a reputation for using them? Years ago, even the boat I was on had M-1s, BARs, and a bunch of 45s for self defense in port. At sea, we could just dive you see ... :-)

Unarmed peacnicks and a suicidal man with a knife or sword are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Did, though, hear of a cruise ship repelling pirates off Somalia with a 'sonic weapon' - some sort of directional loud noise. Must be wicked loud, whatever it is.

WvaBill
January 25, 2006, 07:24 PM
Firehose defense...wasn't that used on The Sand Pebbles?

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 07:45 PM
Years ago, even the boat I was on had M-1s, BARs, and a bunch of 45s for self defense in port. Peashooters... :D

One time, and for the life of me I can't remember where, we had a group of angry protesters coming down the pier with intentions of boarding. We trained the after 5" 54 on their you know whats. They changed their minds.

Another time...and this ain't no XXXX ! :evil:

Somewhere about the mid watch we were out in the middle of the Pacific and were tracking a large cargo ship coming straight for us. All attempts to make contact failed. Every time we adjusted our course they adjusted theirs to continue on a collision course with us. Finally, we manned the forward gun mount and trained it on them. When we got close enough so that they could see the bridge through "Big Eyes" they saw a guy up there struggling to put his pants on with one hand and steer the ship with the other. The crew had been sleeping, the ship was on autopilot.

I can still remember that call over the 1MC in the middle of the night, "Mount 51, Man your gun!"

;)

oweno
January 25, 2006, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Years ago, even the boat I was on had M-1s, BARs, and a bunch of 45s for self defense in port.

Peashooters...

Those were small arms indeed...but we also had 10 torpedo tubes, 6 forward, 4 aft, and an assortment of interesting things that went into them which could put a damper on most surface shipping. :-)

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 10:10 PM
We had this thing called ASROC :D

We spent most of our time searching for and ultimately losing the blue ones...

We also had torpedo tubes but I always thought they were for decoration. In the 48 months I spent on that ship, we NEVER fired one. Not even a blue one.

LOL...

gazpacho
January 25, 2006, 10:27 PM
Asking, just because I'm curious . . .

Why is there a US guided missle destroyer named after a British Prime Minister?

Old Dog
January 25, 2006, 11:01 PM
Why is there a US guided missle destroyer named after a British Prime Minister?
I like to believe it's so we can rub the Brits' faces in the fact that they once had a leader with some cojones ... he was a good friend of our country, and a staunch proponent of the right to keep and bear arms himself. Oh, how things have changed in the U.K.

(Of course, the Navy could also be getting kickbacks from the folks who embroider ships' ball caps ... that's a lot of doggone letters to put on those hats ...)

Boats
January 25, 2006, 11:14 PM
http://www.churchill.navy.mil/

LAK
January 26, 2006, 05:56 AM
Vehicle mounted "water cannons" have been commonly used in europe to take the steam out of rioting mobs etc for decades. And very effective they can be.
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280PLUS
January 26, 2006, 07:59 AM
As a courtesy to the ship's namesake country, a member of the Royal Navy is assigned to the ship's crew at all times.I wonder if he still gets his daily beer ration. :p

later...

I fired off an email to the Command Masterchief and asked. I also sent him (her?) a link to this thread.

:evil:

LAK
January 26, 2006, 09:46 AM
I wonder if he still gets his daily beer ration. :p
That would have to be the rum ration. :D

--------------------------------------
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oweno
January 26, 2006, 09:53 AM
btw, I think that Churchill is the only person who has even been made an honorary citizen of the United States. If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure that people will leap to correct me (as seems to be so often the case both in my family life and on various forums).

scout26
January 26, 2006, 10:49 AM
His mother was an American.

280PLUS
January 26, 2006, 12:23 PM
If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure that people will leap to correct me (as seems to be so often the case both in my family life and on various forums).You must have a teenage daughter... ;)

oweno
January 26, 2006, 06:06 PM
You must have a teenage daughter... ;)

HA! Did have, but she's no longer a teenager. Your point, though, is well taken.

... and you should have seen the "corrections" I received when I suggested that it was OK to remove the side plate on a S&W revolver and lubricate the innerds.

280PLUS
January 26, 2006, 07:19 PM
I got a 15 yo :eek: She's not too bad though cause I've managed to outsmart her once or twice. LOL!

:D

As far as the "corrections" I can imagine the whole scene. I don't even want to think about it cause I'll only get ticked off,,,again...

Just suffice it to say we're not ALL like that around here, but there's a few.

;)

Haven't heard back from the Master Chief yet. Hmmmm...

OH! I almost forgot! I was just watching "Cannons" on Marvelous Machines and they mentioned the Churchill! Seems she's the only ship in the fleet with some new 5" system that launches a guided projectile 75 miles? Must be rocket assist? Anybody know about this. I forget the acronym.

oweno
January 26, 2006, 08:56 PM
Funny, I too saw that story on the USS Churchill - here we are talking about her (the ship) and the same night there's a story on her new gun. Not sure how it operates though but it's got a greatly improved range.

Seeing that story is what's called a '24-hour coincidence' - we're talking about the Churchill and within 24 hours, it comes up again in a totally unrelated context. Watch out for these, they happen all the time and it's strange.

Never had any experience with deck guns, they were taken off the boats I was on before I got to them.

///

and I've got 6 grand-daughters...when my kids complain about raising them, I smile and wish them luck, and say "Been there, done that." :-)

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