Wolf 154gr SP terminal ballistics


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beerslurpy
January 23, 2006, 12:27 AM
I have been seeing a few non-lab tests of 7.62x39 154gr SP that lead me to beleive that it isnt really that suitable for self defense. It has expansion more like a big game bullet than like an anti-personnel bullet. But I havent seen any gelatin tests on it yet.

Anyone done any testing on the 154 gr SP and can quantify exactly what it does?

-jim

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R.W.Dale
January 23, 2006, 01:23 AM
I have been seeing a few non-lab tests of 7.62x39 154gr SP that lead me to beleive that it isnt really that suitable for self defense. It has expansion more like a big game bullet than like an anti-personnel bullet. But I havent seen any gelatin tests on it yet.

Anyone done any testing on the 154 gr SP and can quantify exactly what it does?

-jim


I'm going out on a limb here by guessing that the reason 154gr Wolf load acts more like a hunting bullet isbecause it is a hunting bullet :rolleyes:

I have the external ballistics for this round though
Velocity Muzzle 100yds 200yds 300yds
2,116 1,880 1,659 1,455

Trajectory 200yd zero 100yds 150yds 200yds 300yds
inches 2.7 1.3 0.0 15.3

GigaBuist
January 23, 2006, 01:56 AM
The marine that got me into shooting put it very well one day: Humans are soft and fleshy. Deer aren't. People go down a lot easier.

Sorry if that's morbid sounding.

Hunting rounds are evaluated on their ability to humanely KILL an animal right then and there.

Personal defense rounds are evaluated on their ability to STOP an animal (human animal that needs putting down) right then and there.

Deer run when mortally wounded. People? Not so much, they know to wait for the ambulance rather than die in the woods.

I wouldn't worry too much. A 30 caliber hole in a human is a real problem, especially when delivered via a rifle blowing clean through you. If it expands some, good, if not, oh well.

Onmilo
January 23, 2006, 11:15 AM
Believe it or not, the Russians designed the 154 grain soft point 7.62X39 load for hunting medium to large game animals at ranges not exceeding 150 meters.
It is the load that many of the Saiga deer hunters use and ballistically it is very similar to the .30/30 out to 150 meters.
Past that range the bullet begins to shed velocity and energy very quickly and at 200 meters it isn't much more effective than a .38 special roundnose lead load is at fifty meters.

The 123 grain hollowpoint load is used for small pigs and fur bearing animals.
Technically, Russian hunters are not supposed to have full metal jacket cartridges of any kind but reality makes them more common than the hunting loads since troops are happy to sell ammo for cash money.

Heavy game is taken with the 9.3X54, very similar to the .358 Winchester round.
Supposedly, professional hunters now have the option of purchasing a rifle in 7.62X51/.308 Winchester if they wish.

Cosmoline
January 23, 2006, 01:53 PM
I believe it was intended as a medium game bullet, NOT for personal defense. However either way I'd choose the heavy corbon loadings first. The wolf SP's tend to be pretty primitive. They'll probably work, but then they might just shoot clean through or explode.

For personal defense a domestic production or handload using a QUALITY SP in the 123 grain weight would be better. I've worked up a personal defense load for the Mosin firing 123 grain SP at near 3,000 fps. Tests so far have indicated it should have a rather dramatic terminal performance, though I haven't shot gel with it yet.

Cosmoline
January 23, 2006, 01:55 PM
Heavy game is taken with the 9.3X54, very similar to the .358 Winchester round.

I thought that was a Finnish wildcat, not a Russian round.

Creeping Incrementalism
January 23, 2006, 02:11 PM
I believe it was intended as a medium game bullet, NOT for personal defense. However either way I'd choose the heavy corbon loadings first. The wolf SP's tend to be pretty primitive. They'll probably work, but then they might just shoot clean through or explode.
I'm making an educated guess, but from what I've seen, you don't get "explosive" properties with slow, heavy bullets, which would make them better for hunting because you'd get less meat damage. But meat damage is what you want for self defense.

For personal defense a domestic production or handload using a QUALITY SP in the 123 grain weight would be better. I've worked up a personal defense load for the Mosin firing 123 grain SP at near 3,000 fps. Tests so far have indicated it should have a rather dramatic terminal performance, though I haven't shot gel with it yet.
You're not talking 7.62x39, are you? I don't think it's very difficult to make a lethal cartridge for 170# animals from a full-powered 30-cal rifle cartridge, so I'd bet you're load is good.

What we need is scientific gel testing on a wide range of Russian ammo. No one really trusts it, but no one's really tried it, and maybe there's something out there that is acceptable. With a cheap price, it would cost a lot less to practice, and after all, shot placement is what's key.

Cosmoline
January 23, 2006, 02:17 PM
Some hard testing would be great. I'm just going by antecdotal field reports of the performance of Wolf SP's. Most of these were from heavy Mosin loads, where preformance has been OK but variable. From what I can tell, the Russian SP's are little more than FMJ's with their tips cut off. So sometimes they pass right through like an FMJ, sometimes they open up and perform nicely, and sometimes they fall to pieces.

For personal defense, obviously if a heavy sp 7.62x39 from Wolf opened up on impact, whoever you hit would be blown into next week. But if it passed right through that's another matter entirely. For PD in particular when your life is on the line, why roll the dice? There are plenty of quality sp's .311" in the 123 grain range for handloading and those should work very well. Either that or the Corbon or other domestic x39 SP's or PSP's.

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