[Falconeer]

Greets folks!

I don't want to start a red koolaid vs blue koolaid vs green koolaid discussion here. :p But I'm looking to upgrade my press (Lee Pro 1000) in the not too distant future and was hoping for suggestions. Here are my wants:

1) Minimum four die locations, five preferably (40 cal carbide resizer, 357 Sig resizer, 357 Sig flare & powder drop, 357 Sig bullet seat, 357 Sig FCD)
2) Progressive
3) No tube based primer feeds
4) Fairly inexpensive
5) Takes standard dies

I only reload 357 Sig & 9mm at present, but I could see myself doing 45acp & rifle rounds (.308 probably) in the future.

I like my Pro 1000; I want to upgrade to increase the number die locations. Thanks in advance for the help!

[JDGray]

Lee makes a 5 hole turret for the load master. JDGray

[1911user]

No tube-based primer feeds eliminates the Dillon and Hornady presses. I think the RCBS 2000 is a 4 die press so it's probably gone also. That leaves only Lee. Try to buy used, you'll save quite a bit of money.

[Falconeer]

Lee makes a 5 hole turret for the load master. JDGray
I've been looking at the Load Master. That's what I've been leaning towards, but wanted to get other input. My gear is all Lee.

[Falconeer]

No tube-based primer feeds eliminates the Dillon and Hornady presses.
My primary concern about the tube based primer feeds is having a strike based explosive device stacked on top of each other scares the hell out of me. :p Have there been any issues with it?

[snuffy]

"My primary concern about the tube based primer feeds is having a strike based explosive device stacked on top of each other scares the hell out of me. Have there been any issues with it?"

I'd like to hear how a tube full of primers could be set off in a dillon loader. The actual primer pressing into a pocket occurs on the opposite side of a disk 8 or9 primers away from the tube. The indexer is a frail spring loaded arm that would bend long before it could crush a primer directly under the column in the tube. I feel completely comfortable with the dillon priming system. I've crushed primers that got cocked sideways WHITHOUT setting them off! It takes a hard sudden hit to set them off.

[1911user]

My primary concern about the tube based primer feeds is having a strike based explosive device stacked on top of each other scares the hell out of me. :p Have there been any issues with it?
It is rare (especially for people who are careful and pay attention when reloading), but it does happen. The primer tube on Dillon presses is located inside of a strong, steel pipe. The pipe channels the rare detonation up (makes a mess on the ceiling) and protects the person (still very loud though). It is advisable to not have a flourescent light fixture directly above the primer tube. :D

It has not happened to me or any shooter that I know, but it is possible. So long as it was reliable and well built, I would not let the primer feed mechanism be a big factor is selecting a progressive press. It's still rare, but popping a single primer while priming a case is much more common than setting off a whole tube of primers and any press can do that. It's a good reason to wear safety glasses while reloading.

Here's a link describing some primer detonations (well worth the read): http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31472

[renaissance]

Progressive - 5 Station ??
Dillon 650
Are there ANY others ???

[Falconeer]

Progressive - 5 Station ??
Dillon 650
Are there ANY others ???
The Lee Load-Master is five station. The Hornady progress may also be five station (not sure), but I've heard it has problems with the Lee FCD.

[Falconeer]

Here's a link describing some primer detonations (well worth the read): http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31472

I think I'll stick to the non-tube systems. First off, it would scare the hell outta me. Secondly, if that ever happened and my wife heard it she'd make me get rid of the press! :p

[caz223]

Use the carbide 357SIG sizer from dillon with a teeny bit of hornady's one shot, and you won't need the .40 sizer die.
I load it just fine on my dillon 550.
And I agree, the FCD is a NECESSARY die if you're dealing with 357SIG on a progressive.
Also, I never hear of that happening to a 550, just the 650.
If the priming system didn't suck on the 650, I'd own one. Or two.
Maybe the RCBS piggyback with dillon dies?
Hearing of the primer tube problems make the RCBS pro2000/piggyback sound better all the time.
The pro2000/piggyback conversion is a 5 holer with the BEST priming system around, the APS system.

[Falconeer]

Use the carbide 357SIG sizer from dillon with a teeny bit of hornady's one shot, and you won't need the .40 sizer die.
I use One Shot to lube my 357 Sig cases. I've read on a number of sites however that if you size a 357 Sig case with the carbide .40 sizer, you don't need to lube the cases at all. That's why the five die disk is nice, but not essential. Lubing isn't THAT big a deal. :p

Hearing of the primer tube problems make the RCBS pro2000/piggyback sound better all the time.
The Pro 2000 looks nice, though it's not an inexpensive press. I'm willing to spend the money if necessary, but at present I'm leaning towards a used Lee Pro Master (if I can find one in good shape). Plus I'd be able to keep my powder measure, etc.

[1911user]

You did read the part where "any" press can detonate a primer if you are priming way too fast? If you want to buy Lee, that's fine, just don't use primer tubes as the reason. I'd be more concerned about a primer detonation on the Lee presses since they have no shielding between you and the primers. Sure it's unlikely to happen on a Lee press just like it is unlikely to happen on Hornady or Dillon. Be realistic in evaluating the risks/rewards of diffent presses.

[caz223]

A careless operator will run into problems no matter what press he uses.

[griz]

1) Minimum four die locations, five preferably (40 cal carbide resizer, 357 Sig resizer, 357 Sig flare & powder drop, 357 Sig bullet seat, 357 Sig FCD)
2) Progressive
3) No tube based primer feeds
4) Fairly inexpensive
5) Takes standard dies


RCBS 2000 has:

1. five stations
2. manual indexing progressive
3. strip primers
4. about 350-400 depending on where you buy
5. uses standard dies.

I like mine. It's fast enough for me, reliable, and caliber changes are quick and simple. I've never used any other progressive so can not comment on the red or blue.

[Deavis]

Falconeer:

I think I'll stick to the non-tube systems. First off, it would scare the hell outta me. Secondly, if that ever happened and my wife heard it she'd make me get rid of the press!

No offense to you personally, but that line of thinking is, when considered logically, pretty ridiculous. Let me explain what I mean and give you someting to chew on before you dismiss great presses like the Dillon and Hornady on the basis of a tube fed primer system.

You are concerned that a tube based primer system *could* detonate. Now, as people have already pointed out, the primer magainze on tube presses (650 and LNL) are not directly in line with the priming operation. In addition, if a primer detonates on seating, it expels its energy up through the flash hole and into an empty casing. It is a little loud, it makes you jump, but other than that, it is not really a very big deal. An explosion of the magazine requires something more than the normal operation of the press based on its layout. Furthermore, the primer magazine is a well reinforced tube that Dillon notes will contain any explosion should one occur.

So, I'm willing to be that if we did a little informal survey on this board we would find that the risk of a kaboom is pretty low. Just throwing out an extremely low figure of 25k rounds per reloader (we'll even neglect guys like BluesBear who did commercial loading) and 100 loaders on this site gives us 25,000,000 million rounds loaded. I'm also willing to bet that nobody on here has personally blown up their primer magazine. If someone has, please pipe up.

Now, I have read a single post on THR about a 650 detonating the magazine with no harm to the operator at all. While I don't dispute the pictures, there was little to no information concerning the sitatuation that caused the blow-up. We have no concrete information about exactly what happened and the root cause. For all we know it could have been a build up of primer dust in the magazine set off by static electricity (I'm just throwing out an odd ball cause for an extremely rare occurance where we have little real FA). Now, let's just assume it had nothing to do with operator error and was an actual 650 "defect" that caused it to blow up.

1/100 loaders, in 25 million rounds, suffered a detonation with no ill effects. That means that your chances of detonating the primer magazine are basically non-existent. Out of 25 million rounds loaded, one round ended up in a catastrophic detonation of a magazine. If we divide it instead by reloading sessions (say a med number of 500 rounds per session) that means that 1 in 50,000 sessions results in a detonation.

That number is ridiculously high b/c if we figure in commerical loaders using those presses (my supplier has 15 650XLs IIRC) the probability probably halves, at least! So, your chances of dying in a car wreck on the way to the range (between 1/6000 and 1/18000 is the rang I saw) to shoot your reloads are MUCH MUCH higher. If you are really concerned about your saftey, you should keep reloading and stop driving your car.

I'm just trying to put your statement in prespective. It is ridiculous to discount two solid presses based on the miniscule chance that the magazine could detonate when you engage in far riskier behaivor every single day. The fact that I have been unable to find 1 documented case of someone being injured by a magazine detonation makes your concern look even weaker. It just doesn't make any sense from a logical perpective.

Lastly, I owned an RCBS2000, great solid press. I traded it for a gun because I despised the priming system on it, both the APS and Ram-Prime. It just never worked well for me, ever, but my Dillon has been flawless. Plus, once you have auto-indexing... :)

[Falconeer]

Welp, it certainly sounds like a preference issue in regards to the priming. Thanks for all the input.

[Falconeer]

RCBS 2000 has:

1. five stations
2. manual indexing progressive
3. strip primers
4. about 350-400 depending on where you buy
5. uses standard dies.

I like mine. It's fast enough for me, reliable, and caliber changes are quick and simple. I've never used any other progressive so can not comment on the red or blue.
Thanks kindly for the info. When you say 'strip primers', what is that? I'm not familiar with the system.

[Falconeer]

Falconeer:
No offense to you personally, but that line of thinking is, when considered logically, pretty ridiculous. Let me explain what I mean and give you someting to chew on before you dismiss great presses like the Dillon and Hornady on the basis of a tube fed primer system.
Thanks much for the info. I don't doubt what you say about the safety of the Dillon system. It sounds like it's designed much like the blow out panels on the Abrams MBT ammo storage; focus any detonation away from the crew. I also agree that the chances of the tube detonating are slight.

The problem I have with this is while it may be safe, I don't feel it's a good engineering design. As I mentioned, I'm familar with the Lee system. I have problems with this sytem, primarily that when the number of primers in the 'trough' gets low they sometimes don't feed. I'm aware of it and I have a procedure that solves the problem. I've seated primers in sideways, but have not had a detonation. I only use CCI or Winchester primers. I believe that the use of Federals is the largest cause of primer detonation, no matter what press is used.

What I'm not seeing is advantages in either the Dillon or Hornady presses which make me lean in those directions. I'd be more than willing to go to a Dillon or Hornady if there were signifigant advantages over Lee or RCBS. But my opinion (and it of course is only my opinion) there aren't those advantages. Add in the price, and I'm leaning towards the Lee Load Master.

Everyone has their own preferences, and I'm certainly not saying this is a 'right' or 'wrong' decision. I'm VERY open to hearing design advantages of one press over another. But every decision is a trade off, and price does play a part. :)

Thanks again for the input. Discussions like this help everyone involved, as well as the bunches of people who just read the topics. :)

[griz]

Thanks kindly for the info. When you say 'strip primers', what is that? I'm not familiar with the system.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34485&d=1138127162

Like this picture. They come in strips of 25 and you snap a new one on the end as you use them in the machine. The press comes with a strip loader so you can load any brand of primer into the strips. CCI sells primers already in the strips, but not every place sells them.

As far as safety, I suppose any system, or maybe any person, can pop a primer. The only difference in loaders is how far the incident spreads. I know that in primer tubes the entire stack should go off if any in the tube do, but I'm sure that isn't a common event. I've never set one off in any press, but if it's a big concern I suspect you could single load the primers in to almost any press, eliminating the chance of more than one going off.

[Falconeer]

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34485&d=1138127162

Like this picture. They come in strips of 25 and you snap a new one on the end as you use them in the machine. The press comes with a strip loader so you can load any brand of primer into the strips. CCI sells primers already in the strips, but not every place sells them.
Gotcha!! Thanks for the explanation!

[Deavis]

Falconeer, one thing to consider about the strip loading is that it sucks a little worse than loading primer tubes. Of course, you can get a primer tube filler and take care of that issue, but unless you like CCI primers and can find someone that carries them in APS strips, it is a bit of a pain.

The problem I have with this is while it may be safe, I don't feel it's a good engineering design.

I don't agree with that statement at all. The design has some marginal amount of risk involved, but that is inherent in every single system that is designed to work with a dangerous variable. For instance, people that claim a detonated primer could set off a chain reaction of primers in the disk of a Dillon, which would ignite the magazine. How is that any different from that same (extremely unlikely and almost impossible from my POV) chain reaction propogating down an APS strip? It is the "same" configuration, so would you rather have 25 primers "blowing" up in an APS strip or a well built magazine? Once again, you are talking about a risk that is so incredibly low that it makes no logical sense to consider it.

On the other hand, if you had a problem with the reliability of the primer feed mechanism, I could understand that and would agree that could be considered a poorly engineered system. The Ram prime is an example of that. Dillon's primer feed system works extraordinarily well and from what I have read, so does the LNL on recent presses. I'm not telling you that your moral objection towards a tube layout isn't justified, I'm just trying to point out that from an engineering and scientific view, it doesn't really meet the criteria one would expect from such a claim.

What I'm not seeing is advantages in either the Dillon or Hornady presses which make me lean in those directions. I'd be more than willing to go to a Dillon or Hornady if there were signifigant advantages over Lee or RCBS. But my opinion (and it of course is only my opinion) there aren't those advantages. Add in the price, and I'm leaning towards the Lee Load Master.

I'll be honest with you, having used two of the presses you are considering, examining the LEE at a gun show, and reading quite a bit from a THR member (Cortland has a great write-up) on the LNL, it is my opinion that you could be better served by the Dillon or LNL. It depends on how much you load. Some people swear by Lee but you get what you pay for. It is not as well built as the other 3, anyone that has ever tried a Lee and then tried one of the other three can testify to that fact. There is no disputing that fact, regardless of how much someone likes their Lee press. The RCBS is an incredibly solid press and built like a rock with a great motion. The Dillon is not as bulky as the PRo2000, but still rock solid.

The autoindexing and case feeders on the 650XL and LNL are worth their weight in gold if you do volume pistol loading. Since you load 9mm, you cannot make up the time/cost loading without an auto-indexing progressive. You can easily push out 1000 top quality rounds an hour with a 650XL once you understand the press and develop a safe routine. If that is not a concern, then dismiss that. However, auto-indexing is really nice because makes your loading routine very smooth and allows you to concentrate on your checkpoints without having your hands all over the shellplate.

Since nobody else has bothered to recommend the search feature to you, I am going to. This subject has been covered many many times before. Here are a few links that have covered the LNL v. Dillon v. RCBS v, Lee debate...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=131801&highlight=Dillon+650XL
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132404&highlight=Dillon+650XL
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=112242&highlight=Dillon+650XL
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171061&highlight=press+buy+progressive
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161505&highlight=press+buy+progressive
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132404&highlight=press+buy+progressive

Take saome time to read those threads, there is quite a bit of information in them that might steer you another way.

[BigJakeJ1s]

The problem I have with this is while it may be safe, I don't feel it's a good engineering design. As I mentioned, I'm familar with the Lee system. I have problems with this sytem, primarily that when the number of primers in the 'trough' gets low they sometimes don't feed. I'm aware of it and I have a procedure that solves the problem. I've seated primers in sideways, but have not had a detonation. I only use CCI or Winchester primers. I believe that the use of Federals is the largest cause of primer detonation, no matter what press is used.

What I'm not seeing is advantages in either the Dillon or Hornady presses which make me lean in those directions. I'd be more than willing to go to a Dillon or Hornady if there were signifigant advantages over Lee or RCBS. But my opinion (and it of course is only my opinion) there aren't those advantages. Add in the price, and I'm leaning towards the Lee Load Master.

I would consider a priming system that requires a "procedure" to ensure proper operation to be inferior to a tube fed priming system that is, by most accounts, more reliable, safer if/when a detonation occurs, and also can use an electronic alarm to warn the user when primers are running low/out. Less watching the primers, more watching the rest of the operations. RCBS, which supplies the strip priming system with their progressive press, also sells an optional tube-fed priming system for it, with an optional low primer alarm. The Dillon or RCBS alarms can be easily adapted to work with the Hornady priming system.

Of the auto-indexing, tube-priming, progressive presses that use standard dies (Hornady LNL AP & Dillon XL650), both have relative strengths and weaknesses. Both accept optional automatic case feeders. I would consider the Dillon 1050 in a class by itself, for seriously high-volume, even commercial use.

Powder Measures - The Hornady PM is more flexible and easier to set/change/empty than the Dillon's. Pre-adjusted metering inserts can be swapped without emptying the Hornady PM, and without tools. Micrometer metering inserts allow precise, recordable, repeatable settings. A drain spout insert even allows the Hornady PM to be emptied while still on the press, without tools.

Auto-indexing/case ejection - The Dillon advances the shell plate a full step on the downstroke, which allows more rotation for ejecting the loaded cartridge, but it also results in a more abrupt start/rotate/stop shell plate action. The Hornady system is smoother, advancing a half step on the way up, and another half step on the way down, but this leaves only a half step (1/10th rotation) to eject the finished cartridge. This is why the Hornady has problems with FCD and other dies that are installed in the last station, and that must contact the shell plate. Some users have bent the ejector wire to make it work, others have ground off a portion of the bottom of the die to clear the ejector wire, and still others have removed the ejector completely, electing to manually remove the finished cartridge from the shell plate. When you consider the extra time used to transfer loaded rounds from the catcher bin into ammo boxes, manually moving the finished round from the shell plate directly to the box does not impact throughput as much as one might otherwise expect.

Case Retention - The Dillon system of brass buttons that are sized appropriately for each caliber is more robust, but makes it more difficult to remove cases for in-process inspection (like spot-checking powder weights), and adds to the cost of caliber conversions. The Hornady system uses a spring that allows cartridges to be easily removed during operation, and automatically adjusts to different calibers. But it is more fragile, and sometimes gets damaged if the user is not careful.

Priming changeover / spent primer handling - The Hornady priming system is easier to change over from large to small primers than that of the Dillon 650. Some Dillon users purchase a complete extra priming subassembly to make the changeover easier. Convenient, but expensive. The handling of spent primer and debris on the Hornady is better than that on the Dillon, resulting in a cleaner press that runs smoother, longer.

Die changing - Perhaps the biggest difference between the two systems is the die retention/changing systems. The Dillon die plate holds a complete set of dies and powder measure, allowing all to be changed at once, and also kept together off of the press. This feature, combined with the relative difficulty in setting/changing the PM, leads many users to purchase a complete PM for each caliber setup, and leave them on the die plate. Again, convenient, but expensive. The Hornady system allows dies to be changed one at a time quickly and easily. The relative benefits of these two systems depends on how you use it. If you tend to load lots of only one bullet/powder combination per caliber, then the Dillon system makes a lot of sense. But if you load different batches of bullets and/or powders for the same caliber, the Hornady system allows you to have an extra, preset seater die and/or powder cop die, etc. to swap individually.

Customer service/reputation - Dillon has a better reputation for customer service than Hornady does. Users have reported problems with both, albeit less so (especially considering the number of users) with Dillon.

Price - The Hornady is less expensive to buy, and change calibers on, than the Dillon.

Hope this helps,

Andy

[ReloaderFred]

Back in the late 1970's, I was the rangemaster for our department and also had to load around 60 to 65 thousand rounds of .38 ammunition per year. I had an automatic machine, known as the Ammo-Load, which is still made today. This is a motor driven loading machine with an automatic case feeder and the bullets came in plastic tubes of 54 each. Primers were loaded 200 at a time in a column, which had a blast shield around it. There was also a glass shield in front of the loading stations, which were in a line across the press, from left to right. I had a foot pedal to control the motor, and once I filled up the case hopper, I was able to load 200 rounds without stopping the machine by being quick to replace the tubes of bullets as it was running.

On two occasions, the primer tube blew up on me. The first time was in 1977 and the second time in 1978. This was caused by the sliding arm that carried the primer from the tube, forward to the priming station, where a punch seated it in the waiting case. All of this was done quite rapidly and I could put out about 1,700 to 1,800 rounds per hour, if everything went right.

When a column of primers goes off, it scares the hell out you and drives particles through the ceiling. The first time was a nearly full primer tube and caused some damage to the machine, and to my nerves. The second time was probably about 60 to 70 primers, and still drove debris through the ceiling tiles.

The cause of the detonations was the sliding arm, which being motor driven, moved no matter what, as long as electrical current flowed. The machine operated so fast, there was no way to tell if there was a problem with the primer feed until it was too late. A primer had gotten caught part way into the hole in the sliding arm and when the arm moved, it crushed the primer and set it off, which then set the rest of the primers in the column off in what's known as a "sympathetic detonation". There was an aluminum rod that rested on top of the primers that had a brass knob on top. This was to assure that the primer fed through the tube, even if it got dirty, which it would do, and to let me know when I was about to run out of primers. I had placed a black mark on the rod to let me know when I had 15 primers left in the column. I would have to drive a Q-tip through the tube saturated in alcohol to clean it, which was a pain because the assembly had to be taken apart to do this. I would try to clean it about every 5,000 rounds or so. This rod was quite mangled both times the primers went off and made quite a hole in the ceiling.

In well over half a million rounds loaded since 1963, those are the only primers that have ever detonated on me, and I attribute that to the design of the machine. Handling primers is quite safe, if done properly and the machines are designed properly.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Falconeer]

On two occasions, the primer tube blew up on me. The first time was in 1977 and the second time in 1978. This was caused by the sliding arm that carried the primer from the tube, forward to the priming station, where a punch seated it in the waiting case. All of this was done quite rapidly and I could put out about 1,700 to 1,800 rounds per hour, if everything went right.
Thanks for the anecdote! I'm surprised no one has come up with a better method of handling primers. :) Perhaps there is no better method, at least until we're using electrical ignition in our firearms. :p

[Falconeer]

I don't agree with that statement at all. The design has some marginal amount of risk involved, but that is inherent in every single system that is designed to work with a dangerous variable. For instance, people that claim a detonated primer could set off a chain reaction of primers in the disk of a Dillon, which would ignite the magazine. How is that any different from that same (extremely unlikely and almost impossible from my POV) chain reaction propogating down an APS strip? It is the "same" configuration, so would you rather have 25 primers "blowing" up in an APS strip or a well built magazine? Once again, you are talking about a risk that is so incredibly low that it makes no logical sense to consider it.
There were a couple of references earlier in the topic pointing to tube detonation stories. As I said, it's certainly not something that seems to happens all that often. As for the difference between the tube and the strip, I'm not familiar with the strip. That being said, I could see where in a tube situation the force of a primer going off is going to propogate over the path of least resistance; ie the anvil into the strike surface of the primer above it. I believe on the strips the anvil/open side of the primer all face the same direction. Therefore a detonating primer wouldn't be pointing directly at the next primer in the chain. Again, this is pure theory but seems to make sense to me. :)

I'll be honest with you, having used two of the presses you are considering, examining the LEE at a gun show, and reading quite a bit from a THR member (Cortland has a great write-up) on the LNL, it is my opinion that you could be better served by the Dillon or LNL. It depends on how much you load. Some people swear by Lee but you get what you pay for. It is not as well built as the other 3, anyone that has ever tried a Lee and then tried one of the other three can testify to that fact. There is no disputing that fact, regardless of how much someone likes their Lee press. The RCBS is an incredibly solid press and built like a rock with a great motion. The Dillon is not as bulky as the PRo2000, but still rock solid.
In regards to the Lee 'not being as well built as the other 3', I haven't heard any stories of people wearing out Lee presses. I'll certainly agree that the other presses are much 'beefier', but I suspect that it's more along the lines of overengineered. With that being said, my next press will probably be the one I stick with for a long time. :) I haven't read the links you've pointed out (going there next), but I certainly want to know if Lee presses wear out quicker than others.

Since nobody else has bothered to recommend the search feature to you, I am going to. This subject has been covered many many times before. Here are a few links that have covered the LNL v. Dillon v. RCBS v, Lee debate...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=131801&highlight=Dillon+650XL
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132404&highlight=Dillon+650XL
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=112242&highlight=Dillon+650XL
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171061&highlight=press+buy+progressive
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161505&highlight=press+buy+progressive
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=132404&highlight=press+buy+progressive

Take saome time to read those threads, there is quite a bit of information in them that might steer you another way.
I have done some searching, but I was hoping to take this topic in a specific 357 Sig direction. :p It's gone a bit afield from that but I still think the info is valid. I'm going to read the topics you suggested next.

[Falconeer]

I would consider a priming system that requires a "procedure" to ensure proper operation to be inferior to a tube fed priming system that is, by most accounts, more reliable, safer if/when a detonation occurs, and also can use an electronic alarm to warn the user when primers are running low/out. Less watching the primers, more watching the rest of the operations. RCBS, which supplies the strip priming system with their progressive press, also sells an optional tube-fed priming system for it, with an optional low primer alarm. The Dillon or RCBS alarms can be easily adapted to work with the Hornady priming system.
Well, the 'procedure' in question is only when the number of primers get low, and if something fails no primer gets fed, so no problem. It may slow me down, but it isn't something that would cause a detonation.


Auto-indexing/case ejection - The Dillon advances the shell plate a full step on the downstroke, which allows more rotation for ejecting the loaded cartridge, but it also results in a more abrupt start/rotate/stop shell plate action. The Hornady system is smoother, advancing a half step on the way up, and another half step on the way down, but this leaves only a half step (1/10th rotation) to eject the finished cartridge. This is why the Hornady has problems with FCD and other dies that are installed in the last station, and that must contact the shell plate. Some users have bent the ejector wire to make it work, others have ground off a portion of the bottom of the die to clear the ejector wire, and still others have removed the ejector completely, electing to manually remove the finished cartridge from the shell plate. When you consider the extra time used to transfer loaded rounds from the catcher bin into ammo boxes, manually moving the finished round from the shell plate directly to the box does not impact throughput as much as one might otherwise expect.
I wouldn't mind manually removing the loaded round; I didn't know that was an option. The only option I'd heard with the FCD was as you say to grind off a portion of the FCD and that isn't going to work with me. I don't have the tools, talent, or interest. :)

Hope this helps,

Andy
Most definately! I very much appreciate the info.

[Deavis]

I haven't heard any stories of people wearing out Lee presses.

That is because they can only get 100 or so loaded before they have to adjust something for the next hour to get their press to work right! So while I crank out 2000 rounds on my 650XL, they only get 100 and a set of busted knuckles! :p

There were a couple of references earlier in the topic pointing to tube detonation stories. As I said, it's certainly not something that seems to happens all that often. As for the difference between the tube and the strip, I'm not familiar with the strip. That being said, I could see where in a tube situation the force of a primer going off is going to propogate over the path of least resistance; ie the anvil into the strike surface of the primer above it. I believe on the strips the anvil/open side of the primer all face the same direction. Therefore a detonating primer wouldn't be pointing directly at the next primer in the chain. Again, this is pure theory but seems to make sense to me.

Since you have never seen the priming mechanism on the Dillon, you can't understand the chain that I am referring to. Basically, the primers drop out of the magazine into a disk. The disk is then rotated along with the shell plate. There are 7 holes (small primers) before the ram for seating the primer. My point was that a detonation during the seating would have to travel across 7 primers which are separated from each other by metal and facing the same direction before it could light off the magazine. My point, it probably will never happen in your lifetime.

Go to the local store and play with the LNL and Lee before you buy. You get what you pay for and if you are only buying it once, then why not spend a little more for a sure thing? LNL, Dillon, RCBS are overengineered, but guess what? Overengineering is usually much less painful than underengineering... Think Tacoma Narrows bridge! :)

P.S. that was sarcasm at the top for all you Lee lovers

[Falconeer]

Since you have never seen the priming mechanism on the Dillon, you can't understand the chain that I am referring to. Basically, the primers drop out of the magazine into a disk. The disk is then rotated along with the shell plate. There are 7 holes (small primers) before the ram for seating the primer. My point was that a detonation during the seating would have to travel across 7 primers which are separated from each other by metal and facing the same direction before it could light off the magazine. My point, it probably will never happen in your lifetime.
I believe (going from memory here) the stories of primer tubes exploding have been caused by the primer becoming wedged between the tube and the disk. The disk tries to rotate with the primer not fully dropped, it goes off and is close enough to the tube to set off the remainder of the tube.

Go to the local store and play with the LNL and Lee before you buy. You get what you pay for and if you are only buying it once, then why not spend a little more for a sure thing? LNL, Dillon, RCBS are overengineered, but guess what? Overengineering is usually much less painful than underengineering... Think Tacoma Narrows bridge! :)

P.S. that was sarcasm at the top for all you Lee lovers
None of my local stores have any of the presses. :banghead: I have come to the collective knowledge of the interweb for my assistance! :p

[Peter M. Eick]

Reading this thread, begs the question.

Has anyone ever accidently (or otherwise :) ) blown a primer with a Pro2000?

I never have in nearly 200,000 rnds of reloading.