WI Recent CCW News and a Poll


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StopTheGrays
January 23, 2006, 01:20 PM
http://www.wiscnews.com/bnr/news/index.php?ntid=69812&ntpid=0


Sauk County Sheriff Randy Stammen said the law is poorly written and will not help protect citizens he said are already relatively safe.

"Crime rates in Wisconsin do not support a change in our 130-year-old public policy nor does research support the statement by the bill's authors that carrying a concealed weapon will reduce violent crime," Stammen said. "Law enforcement firmly believes in a person's right to protect themselves, but this... does not warrant further consideration."

Jeff Wiswell, public affairs council for the Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association, which opposes the bill, said the few positive changes in the proposal since the last attempt do not outweigh the larger issues. He said an amendment to the bill to lower the blood alcohol content limit for people carrying concealed weapons from .08 to .02 is not enough.


"We believe anybody who carries a weapon and then conceals that weapon should be at absolute sobriety," Wiswell said.

Stammen said the 21-day period to conduct background checks is not enough to do the job properly.

Baraboo Police Chief Dennis Kluge said he is mainly concerned about the bill's effect on children.

"We will see more people purchasing firearms without having adequate training and these will be stored in homes and other places," Kluge said. "There will be more potential for children to come across these things."

Kluge said in general, he does not see any need for people to carry guns around with them.

"There is a time and place but daily activities is not it," Kluge said. "I anticipate (passing the concealed weapons bill) will bring on more problems, not just for law enforcement (but) also for general citizens too."




There were some quotes from our side but those made to much sense and were not as funny as those listed above.

I also found this online poll. So far it is about 50%-50%.

http://www.wiscnews.com/pdr/
Poll about CCW
Do you believe allowing residents to carry concealed weapons poses a safety risk to your community?
Yes
No
Not sure


http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/13675034.htm

AP story from Minnesota about our veto override chances. The article is neither pro nor anti CCW and is pretty fair. One part in there has me a little scared though:

The override vote is expected to come down to those six Democrats, who are likely to face heavy lobbying from both sides. The six are Reps. Barbara Gronemus of Whitehall, Mary Hubler of Rice Lake, Marlin Schneider of Wisconsin Rapids, John Steinbrink of Pleasant Prairie, Terry Van Akkeren of Sheboygan and Amy Sue Vruwink of Milladore.

Gunderson said he believes Hubler, Schneider, Gronemus and Vruwink will stay with Republicans. Steinbrink and Van Akkeren promised him they would vote to override, too, he said.

"The only thing I can have is a person's word," Gunderson said.

Vruwink aide John Anderson said she would likely vote to override, and Schneider said he would vote to override as well.

Van Akkeren, though, said he never promised Gunderson anything.

"I'll be making my decision when it comes to the floor. At this point I'm not decided," he said.
Sounds like we may have a situation like last time. Anybody know what Doyle might be offering to him that would make him hedge?

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ball3006
January 23, 2006, 01:31 PM
says it all......................the police are not obligated to protect the individual citizen..........I wonder what part of that Supreme Court ruling they don't understand...........chris3

Trip20
January 23, 2006, 02:23 PM
Those quotes make me ill.

I didn't know there needed to be enough "crime" in order to warrant self-protection using the most effective tool(s) available. Sheriff Randy Stammen should be ashamed of himself. :barf:

sturmruger
January 23, 2006, 04:02 PM
At least we are making progress!! Now we just need to get this back through the Assembly and the Senate and we will beat NE to the punch.

benEzra
January 23, 2006, 04:13 PM
Kluge said in general, he does not see any need for people to carry guns around with them.
"Kluge, who carries a gun around with him, says he does not see any need for people to carry guns around with them."

Standing Wolf
January 23, 2006, 11:22 PM
If the police wanted my respect, they'd stop preaching anti-SecondAmendment bigotry in uniform.

Trip20
January 23, 2006, 11:40 PM
Amen StandingWolf.

They need firearms to perform their duty, which is to bring criminals to justice. Yet, we as lowly sheeple citizens do not need firearms to protect ourselves from these very same criminals??? I don't get how people can take his comments and knod in agreement.

StopTheGrays
January 25, 2006, 12:10 PM
http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/index.php?ntid=70013&ntpid=1


The story has an unusual twist. Some business owners are against CCW for the most bliss-ninny-esk of reasons but the chief of police is not against it (it being the PPA...in case it confused some people).


First, the anti-CCW comments. If you are too pressed for time to read the entire quotes I will sum up. Increased crime, blood in the streets, etc.

Doug Pinnow of Pinnow Pharmacy in Brodhead is concerned that legalized carrying of weapons would encourage drug theft, and he cited the recent rash of pharmacy robberies in the greater Madison area.

"There are enough robberies as it is," he said. "If someone comes in with a concealed weapon, it's not going to make us feel very safe, and it's pretty unnerving to me. I'm worried about the stealing of drugs because people are pretty desperate on drugs. I don't understand the purpose of allowing people to carry concealed."

Russ Bethke, owner of Glarnerladen Antiques in New Glarus, is worried that people will get carried away.

"I don't want Clint Eastwood out on the street. That's what we have police for," he said. "The people wanting to carry guns are probably the people who shouldn't be carrying guns, in a lot of cases.":banghead: :banghead:

Now for a dash of common sense.

Although some police officials have spoken out against concealed carry, New Glarus Police Chief Steve Allbaugh believes arming potential victims is a good idea for crime prevention.

"I'm in favor as long as the background investigation and certain criteria are met," he said. "A lot of women are murdered in domestic-related situations. For females who feel that their lives are in danger, it's a good example where they should have something to protect themselves. Those situations are far more frequent than a person in a bank who pulls out a weapon."

He is one of a handful of Chief LEOs who I have ever seen quoted in a newspaper article in WI that is not against CCW. Hopefully we will see more of this.

Maxwell
January 25, 2006, 12:54 PM
I think cops with guns are a threat to everyones safety, its obvious with the number of accidental shootings they have every year. Some officers even shot when their own weapons accidentally discharge!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Fury13rt/thpchart1.jpg

They arnt soldiers, they obviously dont have enough training with their weapons to use them on the same streets where children play.
Even worse you let private companies and bodyguards carry lethal weapons whos only purpose is to kill other humans. Even full auto machine guns and indescriminate scatter-shot firearms!

Since they just cant be trusted to shoot the right people or store their weapons in a safe manner, We should pass legislation that forces them to make do with more effective meathods of self defense.

It would make the world safer, for the children you know...

</sarcasm>
:evil:

scout26
January 25, 2006, 01:37 PM
Maxwell,

I love your chart !!!!


Some in WI needs to go to Doug Pinhead of Brodnow and explain CCW, he seems rather confused on the concept.

"I don't want Clint Eastwood out on the street. That's what we have police for,"

In the movie 'Dirty Harry' wasn't Clint Eastwood a cop ?????? :rolleyes:




"Captain, the Irony Meter's in the red !!!"

carlrodd
January 25, 2006, 01:46 PM
Amen StandingWolf.

They need firearms to perform their duty, which is to bring criminals to justice. Yet, we as lowly sheeple citizens do not need firearms to protect ourselves from these very same criminals??? I don't get how people can take his comments and knod in agreement.

ALWAYS expect the police, by and large, to be "skeptical" of the need of citizens to have a right to bear arms. supporting that right for citizens is the same as them saying "we need help", or "we are not doing an efficient job". you certainly cannot expect them to make such statements in regard to their performance.

police have hard jobs, so i'm not disparaging the quality of their work. but armed citizens would and do make their jobs easier. they won't admit it because it's a matter of pride.

Nitrogen
January 25, 2006, 01:51 PM
If the police wanted my respect, they'd stop preaching anti-SecondAmendment bigotry in uniform.


I can't blame police for their stance on CCW. Day in and day out, they see the effects of lawlessnes, violence, and just plain evil. Of COURSE a police officer that sees lots of gun violence will be anti-2a. Most of his experiences with guns are negative, except for his carrying of one.

EDIT: The poster above me had another great point that feeds into mine.

Trip20
January 25, 2006, 02:07 PM
I don't suppose armed citizens make law enforcement’s job easier at all, carlrodd. Crime will still take place; it's just a matter of who is zipped up in the body bag; the criminal, or the victim.

So the police - who most inexorably show up after the commission of the crime - still must carry out their investigation, and all the other facets associated with a committed criminal act. Their workload will remain the same. It's not about their workload.

It's about the guise that law enforcement officers need weapons for protection from the criminals they seek to apprehend. If that is true, we as citizens need protection from the very same criminals that seek to violate our security and safety.

carlrodd
January 25, 2006, 02:53 PM
I don't suppose armed citizens make law enforcement’s job easier at all, carlrodd. Crime will still take place; it's just a matter of who is zipped up in the body bag; the criminal, or the victim.

So the police - who most inexorably show up after the commission of the crime - still must carry out their investigation, and all the other facets associated with a committed criminal act. Their workload will remain the same. It's not about their workload.
.


hair-splitting AND i still disagree.

most violent crimes require insane amounts of very careful investigation, court time, appeals, on and on and on. acts of self-defense still require due process, but there is one HUGE difference: those committing acts of self defense would typically be compliant. less investigation, less court time(if any) and few appeals. ask a cop if he would deal with compliant citizens, or criminals that are trying to get over on the system...if they can be found.

Trip20
January 25, 2006, 03:40 PM
Considering the very small percentage of WI citizens that will actually exercise their right to self-protection (i.e., obtain their permit, if allowed)... I maintain concealed carry will have little to no consequence on the workload of WI law enforcement.

How many citizens reside in Texas? What percentage of those citizens hold permits? What percentage of those permit holders are involved in self-defense shootings? The percentages are so insignificant in the grand scheme of things, that to assume permit holders play any significant role in an officers daily workload is derisory.

On the contrary, I bet a very significant percentage of permit holders never even have to draw, let alone fire. Again, permit holders do not and will not have a significant impact on workload.

This has nothing to do with workload.

It's much more sinister. It's about and discriminatory mindset held by some - not all - law enforcement officers and law enforcement officials. We've had many officers sign post cards to their senators and reps in favor of the Personal Protection Act (PPA).

The above article represents just one officer who fell from the moron tree and hit every branch on his way down.

Agree to disagree - it's been nice chatting. :)

I think we agree it's wise not to expect law enforcement to jump on board concealed carry legislation... But disagree as to the reason for the same.

Regardless of the reason, the outcome is the same. The outcome is what’s important, and what’s standing in our way.

Monkeyleg
January 25, 2006, 07:45 PM
Anecdotally, most street-level officers I've talked to favor concealed carry.

The reporters writing those stories must have had to look under every possible rock to find such idiots to quote.

Every argument against concealed carry uses the same assumption: that, by getting permits, we're all going to be instantly transformed into criminals.

What an insult.

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