WI: anti-CCW legislator introduces "study"


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Monkeyleg
January 25, 2006, 07:02 PM
Representative Jon Richards of Milwaukee, no friend to gun owners, just released a "study" on concealed carry. It can be found here. (http://www.wispolitics.com/1006/0125Concealed2.pdf)

I find it interesting that the anti's are doing much more to try to defeat the bill this year than in past sessions. They must know that there's a decent chance we can win.

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DonP
January 25, 2006, 08:22 PM
I just had to go rinse my mouth out after reading that clap trap.

When the first footnote references the Brady Bunch you know it's going to be a crock-o-crapola. There isn't even the pretense of objectivity.

Obviously this critter is just looking to scare as many fence sitters as he/she can with a bunch of phony statistics and horror stories. The sad part is they probably used their taxpayer provided official office printing priveleges to print and distribute that piece of propaganda.

I'm sure Doyle is going to give up his state trooper bodyguards to prove how safe everyone is on the streets.

Good luck up there in cheddar land from us FIB's down south.

Stevie-Ray
January 25, 2006, 08:38 PM
Jon Richards is oviously a total maroon!

That's all folks!

pete f
January 25, 2006, 09:10 PM
In the two minnesota cases listed, both cases are greated misrepresented. The man who shot at his brothers truck did so after his brother (who was under the influence of chemicals,) repeatedly tried to run him down with the truck after he was asked to leave the home of Legal shooter. There was a lot of interest in this case early but it was deemed a life threatening incedent.

in the second case, the shooter was just convicted of 2nd degree murder and will spend 20 years in jail minimum. He was not carrying in the bar and was not flashing the gun around the bar trying to intimdate others. After he was bounced from the bar for public drunkeness, he went to his car and retrieved pistol and then used it on the bouncer. from all reports, this guy was a nut job from day one. and was a mistake, but in 3 years plus, he is the only permit holder to murder anyone.

As seeing as how both his minnesota reports are not as he reported them. i would say the rest of the reports would be same.

scout26
January 25, 2006, 09:16 PM
As seeing as how both his minnesota reports are not as he reported them. i would say the rest of the reports would be same.

:rolleyes: You mean that there isn't a prison down in Texas that is just filled to overflowing with the 3,300 CCW Permit-Holding Murderers and Rapists ??? ;)

Parruthead
January 25, 2006, 09:18 PM
:banghead:

cracked butt
January 25, 2006, 10:28 PM
One could easily argue that Milwaukee had a banner year for murders in 1995 and that if people were allowed to carry weapons to protect themselves, it wouldn't get any worse.

Bill2k1
January 25, 2006, 10:40 PM
This Wisconsin carry issue is like a friggen rollercoaster. If this one doesn't get an override, I think many people who were pulling for it are going to go to indifferent on the issue.

Standing Wolf
January 26, 2006, 12:17 AM
If not for lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, lies, and plain old-fashioned fraud, leftist extremists wouldn't have any guiding philosophical principles at all.

Monkeyleg
January 26, 2006, 12:22 AM
Bill2k1, that's my concern.

Back in 2001, we had tons of people volunteering, especially after the WTC attacks.

In the 2003 session we had a new crop of highly-motivated volunteers.

After the failure to override in 2004, the number of volunteers fell off.

This year, recruiting volunteers has been like pulling teeth.

I understand completely how it feels to get within an inch of victory, only to lose, just like any THR member who's been in this fight for a long time.

The question for anyone who wants CCW here in Wisconsin is, as I've quoted Sean Connery's character from The Untouchables so often: "What are you prepared to do about it?"

And that's the essential point. For those who want legal concealed carry in WI, how far are you willing to go? How much time will you devote to the cause?

I'm not questioning your motivation, Bill2k1. All I'm trying to point out is that there are far too many gun owners who expect a "microwave victory," and just walk away from the cause if they don't win in 60 seconds.

How many of these people went out hunting for the first time, and then gave up because they didn't get a trophy buck the first time out? How many people went to the range for the first time, and gave up shooting because they couldn't drill the X-ring on the first try?

This bill was first introduced in 1992. Every year has brought us closer to victory. In every legislative session, we've advanced our position, to the point where we now have the best chance ever to get this bill passed.

It's been a huge sea-change in public opinion, and in the votes in the legislature.

That didn't happen by accident. It happened because people who believe in this cause took time from their daily lives to get us this far. And the people who have had the biggest impact are those who are willing to go up against the likes of Doyle, year after year, win or lose.

We may lose the veto override vote in the Assembly next week. We may also win. I'd say the odds are still 50/50.

The anti-gunners won a lot of victories over the last thirty or so years because they were happy with even the smallest of morsels. Add up those morsels, and you have the full loaf of bread they sought to begin with.

Some quotes from Thomas Edison:

"Many of life’s failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up."

"Nearly every man who develops an idea works at it up to the point where it looks impossible, and then gets discouraged. That's not the place to become discouraged."

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."

Strings
January 26, 2006, 02:06 AM
the problem Dick (and we've talked about this before), is we can't get ANY closer than '04 without winning. One measley vote.

Like I said: would it be considered illegal to let Terry know that voting FOR the override means 10+ more campaign volunteers, and voting against means we work for his opposition?

Soybomb
January 26, 2006, 03:43 AM
It certainly looks like a tactic to lay out a poor study perhaps the night before the senate is set to vote on it...shame there is no time for a rebuttal from the pro ccw party before the vote.

Bill2k1
January 26, 2006, 04:49 AM
Monkeyleg,

I have taken the view that untill we get some changes in the people who have the power, we won't get squat. It makes me mad as a young independent voter that simple things are not solved by the best idea and research. Things fall along party lines. CCW is not an issue on right and wrong, or good or bad. It is an issue of political power. I am a voter, have been since the day I could. As someone who doesn't follow a party, I have lost the drive to continue to vote. Only because the best option never wins.

This post is more political than I wanted. I should say, will I get my CCW when we get it? you bet. Will I carry everyday, even in the shower? no. I have grown up without guns being an everyday thing. Everyone in Wisconsin has, its hard to change minds when the masses have never had a problem that required a gun.

I know I am the smallest minority of people who want CCW, a free thinking, logical, college student. I KNOW we will get it, but I am not holding my breath.

Skirmisher
January 26, 2006, 09:38 AM
If I remember right, a couple of years ago a WI judge ruled (in some case) that if the legislature doesn't come up with a permit law for CCW, the citizens can legally carry concealed without a permit because if the State Constitution. A lot of states have similar constitutions but it takes a written permit law to get all of law enforcement to "read off the same page" in regard to citizens carrying concealed. Maybe someone from WI will remember that judge and the case he ruled on and nudge the media and certain anti legislators what may happen if the veto is not overturned and the law is not passed.:neener:

geekWithA.45
January 26, 2006, 09:46 AM
Lessee, the substance of this "study":



-Cherry picked anecdotes of criminals who hold carry permits
-Cherry picked criticisms of Lott

"Scientific Method" used in study:

-Google for stuff to support the conclusion that CCW is "bad"


Sources:

-Brady Campaign
-The internet
-Newspapers

Credibility of this report:

ZERO.

erik the bold
January 26, 2006, 10:31 AM
Some states have even shown that their permitting procedures are driven by more than the need
of the applicant. In Michigan a permitting process analysis by The Grand Rapids Press showed
that political favoritism was a concern.
[The analysis showed that ]“only three of the 227 permits issued in Kent County
over the past five years went to people without police connections or political
clout.”
Kent County’s gun board rejected the permit request of an applicant that wanted the license to
protect himself after an attempted robbery. The board ruled that the man did not show a need for
the permit but,
“the same gun board issued a weapons permit to Peter Cook, a wealthy
philanthropist and a major Republican contributor who says he is not aware of
any threats on his life. Cook, who occasionally rides along with local police,
helped set up an emergency medical response team at the Grand Rapids Police
Department in the 1970s.”
The analysis done by The Grand Rapids Press also showed geographic discrepancies in the
amount of permits issued in Michigan.⊕

I thought it interesting that they brought up permiting irregularities prior to Michigan's "shall issue" status in 2001.... :banghead:

halvey
January 26, 2006, 11:51 AM
It certainly looks like a tactic to lay out a poor study perhaps the night before the senate is set to vote on it...shame there is no time for a rebuttal from the pro ccw party before the vote. And it could get worse. Remember, right before the Minnesota Carry law 2005 version "threats" were emailed to Democrats only to find out the emails were BS.

:) :) :) I really hope this passes. There are plenty of reasons for cheeseheads to move to Minnesota and we don't need the right to carry to be another reason. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

AJ Dual
January 26, 2006, 02:14 PM
It was a "sure thing", so a defeat here would have been a shocker.

Considering how the vote broke down, I don't think the "study" influenced anyone to switch in the Senate, at least. :D

We'll see about the Assembly next week. Hopefully, we're applying enough positive pressure to our weak Democratic assemblymen and women.

I also hope that those who've been with us so far, will stay the course. WI is pro-gun enough that we WILL have CCW eventually. And long-term demographic shift in WI is increasing in conservative suburban counites. Perhaps as soon as fall of 2007 in the likely event that the Govenor's race goes our way.

Since I deem WI CCW inevitable, these people might as well be on the winning side. :D

lucky_fool
January 26, 2006, 06:01 PM
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel stated, “The reality is that there is no foolproof screening
possible here. Which means all those who apply and qualify will be presumed to be worthy of
carrying a concealed weapon, until they prove they are unworthy. By then, too often, someone is
dead or injured.”

:barf:

Oh, I'm sorry Mr. High-and-Mighty - I thought people in a free society needed to be proven unworthy before you prevented them from doing something, not proven worthy before you allowed them to excercise their rights. Kind of like that whole "presumed innocent until proven guilty" thing.

ingram
January 26, 2006, 06:22 PM
Ah yes, citing the Brady Campaign and the VPC. Groups which are well known here for their fair, thoughtful, well researched emperical studies showing no bias whatsoever.

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