WI CCW: WI Senate Overrides Veto...


AJ Dual
January 26, 2006, 02:05 PM
It was a sure thing, so no surprise, on to the Assembly!

(Sigh....) If only WI were a unicameral legislature. I'd be looking for a class right now!


Wisconsin Senate Roll Call
2005-2006 SESSION

SB 403

AYES - 23

NAYS - 10


Thursday, January 26, 2006
11:52 AM

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cracked butt
January 26, 2006, 02:06 PM
Woohoo! Its at least a moral victory.

January 26, 2006, 02:17 PM
Just posted the same at TFL. Yay for us.

January 26, 2006, 02:49 PM
Pro-gun State Senators up for re-election November 7th:

Russ Decker
Jeff Plale
Alan Lasee
Neil Kedzie
Ted Kanavas
Joe Leibham
Dave Zien
Cathy Stepp
Scott Fitzgereald
Ron Brown
Mike Ellis
Dale Schultz
Tom Reynolds

January 26, 2006, 04:16 PM
Neither, can this Dem governor point to any of the other 45 states where concealed carry has been a public hazard.
He doesn't have to. He has rats like Assembly Assistant Minority Leader Jon Richards putting out "reports" such as this (http://www.wispolitics.com/1006/0125Concealed2.pdf). :barf:

El Tejon
January 26, 2006, 04:34 PM
FWIW, the report has a misstatement of Indiana law. It mentions the case of a man whose pistol fell from his pocket (let's hear it for pocket carry! it's ALL YOU NEED) and injured another. The report states, "[t]he permit holder had failed to secure his gun in a holster, as required by law."

There is no such requirement. If they would lie about this, what else are they lying about?

AJ Dual
January 26, 2006, 05:19 PM
If overiding the veto is a failure this time, then the state may never have a CHL for its citizens in the foreseeable future, as I don't believe the odds will be better in the next legislative session with Democrats celebrating a newly elected Dem President, and a stronger Dem congress.

If we fail, it would be a huge pain to have to wait another 1.5 years in our battle, but the outlook isn't as bad from the inside of WI as it must look to you.

1. WI is BARELY a "blue state". If you take vote fraud out of the equation, we might even be RED. At minimum, we're quite possibly the country's only "purple state". While WI was not the smallest margin in the 2004 presidential election by percentage, Ohio has that honor, WI was smallest in total votes. The margin for Kerry was something on the order of only around 5000-6000 "votes".

WI does not have a voter ID requirement, AND, we have same-day registration. Which is rife with corruption. Our same Democrat Governor, Jim Doylet, has vetoed that repeatedly too. Go figure. The U.S. Fed prosecutor released a report citing "No credible evidence for systematic vote fraud in Milwaukee". Essentially, it's been swept under the rug, and the conservatives haven't screamed too loudly since Bush won anyway.

2. Doyle is not a very popular Governor, even within his own party. His poll numbers a abysmal. He has little or no vision, even a wrong/liberal one, and has championed few causes that inspire "the base". He was our former AG, and always aspired to be Governor, but never actually thought very much about what he'd do other than oppose conservatism when he got there. Also, there is now a state contract bribery case blowing up right now (perfect timing!) that may well throw Doyle IN JAIL over campaign funds. The FEDS are looking into that one... WOOT!

3. Next year's Republican challengers are both popular. Mark Green an outspoken conservative state legislator, and Scott Walker, who was swept into power as Milwaukee County Exec. On an anti-tax, anti-corruption reform wave of sentiment. There's a good chance the Republican Governor's race primary will decide the Governorship. Both have said they'll sign CCW if it reaches their desk. Right or wrong, the Republicans have also managed to add a "Gay Marriage" referendum to the next fall election. That is expected to turn out the conservative base in droves. School vouchers a.k.a. "school choice" (tax money follows the kid wherever he goes, not the school) is also starting to be a significant wedge issue between minority voters and their traditional Democratic voting patterns.

4. We have, or nearly have, the 2/3rds supermajority needed to override the Governor's veto this year. If it fails it'll be by just one vote like last time. By the next election cycle, should a Republican be governor, we'll only need 51%, and many rural district Dem's in the Legislature know they stand against any pro-gun legislation at their peril. On that basis, CCW is already bi-partisan legislation. Anything is possible, but I feel it is unlikely enough pro-CCW legislators will lose their seats in the coming election to drive us below 66%, AND still have Doyle in the Governor's chair next year. The odds aren't a sure thing, November's a long way's from today, but they're still noticeably in our favor.

So at least if we fail, we stand a chance of it being a shoe-in the next legislative year. And if that's the case, we won't have any compromises in next year's CCW bill. The obvious downside is how many people who could have carried, will instead become victims in that time. :(

January 26, 2006, 05:30 PM
Here's to hoping, AJ. But Dick's assessment has been somewhat more pessimistic. He's afraid that we'll be losing the republican majority in the Senate, at which point things kinda fall apart, regardless of who's goobernor...

Remember, Mc Callum said he would sign if it hit his desk: it never even came up for a vote in the Senate, thanks to the Dems. Should we not get it this year, there's every possibility that DC and Chicago will have CCW before us...

AJ Dual
January 26, 2006, 06:10 PM
Well Hunter, I said nothing's set in stone. I fully admit I could be wrong. I've to have heard that worry from Dick in the past, but I haven't yet heard his reasons. I don't know if it's just a general "worry", among many, in regards to the PPA's chances, or if he's got some concrete intel I am unaware of.

However, I am still optimistic. Even about the state Senate.

- I don't think the Katrina/Iraq/Bush effect will be as potent as some think it'll be on the national scene in '06 and '08, and it'll be irrelevant on the WI election front in fall '06.

- Doylet's upcoming legal troubles over the Travel Agency scandal won't be doing the WI Dem party any favors this year. (It's also breaking just in time for the Assembly override, quite possibly helping to make this whole line of discussion moot, at least in terms of the PPA/CCW. Even the Mke Urinal-Sentiel is covering it on page one...)

- The Gay Marriage referendum has successfully been added to the November ballot. As a self described "little-L" libertarian, I'm admittedly ambivalent, (I'm against state-codified "Gay Marriage, but not for the reasons one might normally think. I'm just against state-regulated marriage period. It should be a private matter for churches, and the state's only interest in "Marriage" would be on the basis of contract law, but I'm digressing. :) ) but either way, I have to admit, the Gay referendum is a master stroke by the Republicans to ensure voter turnout.

- The voters are sore over the vote fraud in the '04 elections, and that voter ID has been blocked, repeatedly by the Democrats. The rest of the state does not like being run by what they see as Milwaukee machine, and Madison double-dipping student voter fraud.

- School choice and vouchers are turning into more and more of a wedge issue. Several thousand Milwaukee inner-city black families may well secretly vote Republican for the first time this year to keep their kids in school. There's already a full-court press (and controversy over the strong wording of some black radio station ads) against Doylet over the voucher cap.

- The voters are also sore over the repeated failure of meaningful state spending caps, tax reform, and a TABOR (Tax Payer Bill Of Rights) amendment to the state Constitution.

- Should we lose the Senate, there's also no reason that a Repub Gov. and Repub Assembly couldn't do to the Senate Dems what Doylet has been doing to the Assembly Dem's who are pro CCW right now. However, getting someone to look wishy-washy and flip their vote is harder, isn't it? All a Repub Gov. and Repub Assembly would have to do is force the Senate Dems who've been pro-CCW in the past to be consistent with their past votes, and threaten any of their pet legislation, no?

I understand that the Dems could win back the Senate, but even then, it remains to be seen if the Senate majority leader would still be brazen enough to do what Chuck "The Jailbird" Chavala pulled in 2002. (Us WI CCWer's know the sordid story: He broke parliamentary procedure and ignored an overwhelming voice-vote to bring CCW to the floor, and improperly closed the legislative session for the year, knowing full well that Doyle might be Governor by next term. Karma's a b---h though, he's in jail now on unrelated matters… :D )

January 26, 2006, 07:56 PM
AJ, with twenty legislative Republicans retiring this year, it would only require a net loss of three seats in the senate to give control back to the Dem's.

Not an impossibility.

Do we have pro-gun Democrats? Sure. We saw some today.

But the Democrat leadership in the legislature isn't from conservative Democrat districts. It's from Madison and Milwaukee. There's no way that somebody like Jon Erpenbach would allow a floor vote on concealed carry.

If we don't win in the Assembly next week, we're going to all have to work very hard to preserve a Republican majority. That's not because all Republicans are pro-gun. It's just that the leadership--including Dave Zien--tends to be.

BTW, Cathy Stepp isn't running for re-election this fall. I'm praying that she'll be replaced by another Repub. It's a shame, too. She wanted to have permit #1.

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