Hamas Wins Landslide 76 Seats


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gt3944
January 26, 2006, 02:53 PM
:eek: RAMALLAH, West Bank - The Islamic militant Hamas won a landslide victory in Palestinian parliamentary elections, winning 76 seats in the 132-member legislature, election officials said Thursday. The rival Fatah Party, which controlled Palestinian politics for four decades, won 43 seats.

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Hamas supporters raised their flag over the Palestinian parliament and rushed into the building amid clashes with Fatah loyalists a day after winning parliamentary elections.

The two camps threw stones at each other, breaking windows in the building, as Fatah supporters briefly tried to lower the green Hamas banners. The crowd of about 3,000 Hamas backers cheered and whistled as activists on the roof of the parliament raised the Hamas banner again.

Holy crap, could things get any worse???I say just let Palestine and Israel fight it out themselves, this war has been going on way before any of us were even thought off..it might never end....

It was the first confrontation between Hamas and Fatah since the Islamic militant group won parliamentary elections on Wednesday.

Palestinian leaders huddled to determine what role the Islamic militant group will play in governing the territories.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas will ask Hamas to form the next government, with his defeated Fatah Party weighing whether to form a partnership or serve in the opposition.

A Hamas government, without Fatah as a moderating force, would greatly complicate Abbas' efforts to restart peace talks. The Islamic militants, who carried out dozens of suicide bombings and seek Israel's destruction, have said they oppose peace talks and will not disarm. Israel and the United States refuse to deal with Hamas.

The top Hamas leader, Khaled Mashaal told Abbas his group is ready for a political partnership, Hamas said.

In a first sign of pragmatism, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said the group would extend its year-old truce if Israel reciprocates. "If not, then I think we will have no option but to protect our people and our land," he told Associated Press Television News.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said the U.S. position on Hamas as a terrorist organization has not changed despite the outcome.

"You cannot have one foot in politics and another in terror," she told an international conference in Davos, Switzerland, via a telephone hookup from Washington.

She said she had called Abbas as well as U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and Israel's Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni.

"The Palestinians have a constitutional process that they will now follow. We ask all parties to respect this process so that it can unfold in an atmosphere of calm and security," Rice said.

Abbas' office said she told him that the Bush administration "will continue supporting the elected president and his policies," said Nabil Abu Rdeneh, an Abbas aide.

Abbas was elected separately a year ago and remains president. However, the Palestinian leader has said he would resign if he could no longer pursue his peace agenda. The Cabinet and legislature must approve any major initiative by Abbas, giving Hamas tremendous influence over peace moves.

Aides said he planned a major speech Thursday night, after final results are announced by the Central Election Commission.

Acknowledging the Hamas victory, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia and his Cabinet ministers resigned hours before official results were released.

"This is the choice of the people. It should be respected," Qureia said. "If it's true, then the president should ask Hamas to form a new government." The Cabinet remained in office in a caretaker capacity.

Zahar also promised a complete overhaul of Palestinian public services and administration.

"We are going to change every aspect, as regards the economy, as regards industry, as regards agriculture, as regards social aid, as regards health, administration, education," he said.

Hamas supporters streamed into the streets to celebrate. In Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, Hamas loyalists shot in the air and handed out candy. Others honked horns and waved Hamas flags from cars.

Israeli officials declined comment, but senior security officials gathered Thursday to discuss the results. Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert scheduled talks with senior officials later in the day.

Olmert said Wednesday, before Hamas claimed victory, that Israel cannot trust a Palestinian leadership in which the Islamic group has a role.

"Israel can't accept a situation in which Hamas, in its present form as a terror group calling for the destruction of Israel, will be part of the Palestinian Authority without disarming," Olmert said in a statement issued by his office.

President Bush told The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday that the United States will not deal with Hamas until it renounces its position calling for the destruction of Israel.

Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, according to news reports, called the outcome a "very, very, very bad result." Benita Ferrero-Waldner, the EU external relations commissioner, said Hamas must be "ready to work for peace" with Israel if it joins the Palestinian government.

Annan said any group that participates in a democratic process should "ultimately disarm." Otherwise, he said, there was a "fundamental contradiction."

Hamas capitalized on widespread discontent over years of Fatah corruption and ineffectiveness. Much of its campaign focused on internal issues while playing down the conflict with Israel.

Before the election, Hamas had suggested it would be content as a junior partner in the next government, thus avoiding a decision on its relationship with Israel.

Throughout the campaign, leaders sent mixed signals, hinting they could be open to some sort of accommodation with Israel. Now it will have to take a clearer position on key issues, including whether to abandon its violent ideology.

Mushir al-Masri, a Hamas candidate who won election in the northern Gaza Strip, said the group is ready for a partnership — presumably with Abbas.

Former President Carter, who led a group of international observers, said the elections were "completely honest, completely fair, completely safe and without violence." Turnout was heavy, with nearly 78 percent of 1.3 million eligible voters casting ballots.

Palestinian election officials confirmed that Hamas had won a large majority of the seats up for grabs in electoral districts in the West Bank and Gaza. It was the first time Hamas has contested a parliamentary vote.

Half the seats at stake were chosen on a national list and the other half by districts. While the national voting appeared to be close, election officials said Hamas had won a large majority in the district races. Hamas apparently took advantage of divisions in Fatah; the long-ruling party fielded multiple candidates in many districts, splitting the Fatah vote.

Initial exit polls had forecast a slight edge for Fatah, with Hamas coming in a strong second. The polls predicted that neither party would have a majority and would have to rely on smaller parties to form a coalition.

However, on Thursday morning, Hamas officials said the group had won up to 75 seats — giving it a solid majority in the 132-member parliament.

Officials in Fatah conceded that Hamas had won at least 70 seats, or enough to rule alone. They spoke on condition of anonymity because counting in some districts was continuing.

Palestinian pollsters were at a loss to explain the discrepancy between the exit polls and the reality. It may have been partly due to a reluctance by some voters to admit to pollsters that they were abandoning the ruling party.

Also, the errors appeared especially glaring in the district races, where smaller numbers of voters were polled.

Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, who apparently was re-elected on a moderate platform, said the Hamas victory was a dramatic turning point. She said she is concerned the militants will impose their fundamentalist social agenda and lead the Palestinians into international isolation.

She said Fatah's corruption, Israel's tough measures and international indifference to the plight of the Palestinians were to blame for Hamas' strong showing.

Washington miscalculated in pushing for the vote, as part of its pro-democracy campaign in the Arab world, she said. "The Americans insisted on having the election now, so they have to respect the results of the election, as we all do," she said.

Israel has repeatedly asked Abbas to force Hamas and other militant groups to disarm but Abbas has refused, warning such an act could cause civil war.

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ArmedBear
January 26, 2006, 02:55 PM
Has anyone considered that Israels turnover of territory to the Palestinians was really not just a wry peace gesture?

Perhaps it was a strategic maneuver to allow Israel to have a better opportunity wipe them out.

gt3944
January 26, 2006, 03:00 PM
I believe that we should just leave this alone, and let Israel and Palestine fight this out..I mean this war has been going on long before any of us were even thought off..Its none of our business until they mess with us...

scout26
January 26, 2006, 03:06 PM
Wars do tend to drag on until one side or the other loses.

Can'thavenuthingood
January 26, 2006, 05:12 PM
Yes, and losing with unconditional surrender.

The victors take home the plunder, none of that mamby pamby rebuild them stuff. Let them live in a world of their choosing, caves.

Vick

azredhawk44
January 26, 2006, 05:21 PM
Well, now palestine is a democratically elected terrorist state instead of a despotic terrorist state like afghanistan.

We couldn't nuke afghanistan because it would cause undue suffering on the part of the poor people who had no voice.:barf:

The addage of "Democracies don't fight one another" has just gone right out the window.

I hope Israel nukes them if the palestinians start a democratically supported war. The populace chose that when they put Hamas in charge. They deserve whatever they get.

HankB
January 26, 2006, 05:25 PM
Perhaps it was a strategic maneuver to allow Israel to have a better opportunity wipe them out.Well, they'll know for sure where at least 76 of Hamas' leaders will be when the Palestinian parliament is in session. :evil:

Zundfolge
January 26, 2006, 05:28 PM
Thank You Ariel "Neville" Sharon. :rolleyes:

TexasRifleman
January 26, 2006, 05:30 PM
Well, they'll know for sure where at least 76 of Hamas' leaders will be when the Palestinian parliament is in session. :evil:

Sounds like a good plan.

So much for the "Religion of Peace". Be kinda hard to stick to that story after this.


And why is Jimmy Carter the election circus leader? What brought that about?
Is he supposed to give it some legitimacy since he's an ex President?

Manedwolf
January 26, 2006, 05:32 PM
I believe that we should just leave this alone, and let Israel and Palestine fight this out..I mean this war has been going on long before any of us were even thought off..Its none of our business until they mess with us...

It's been going on for five thousand years.

And this WAS their free election's results. We have no place to complain, or to interfere.

You can't play "We like democracy" only when you like how the dice land.

We need to leave this alone, or all our claims of promoting democracy will be seen as a farce.

Thefabulousfink
January 26, 2006, 05:33 PM
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Is there a sale on Hamas? I just love hamas, spread it on pita with olives and cuccumbers, tasty:neener:

ArmedBear
January 26, 2006, 05:41 PM
It's been going on for five thousand years.

And this WAS their free election's results. We have no place to complain, or to interfere.

You can't play "We like democracy" only when you like how the dice land.

We need to leave this alone, or all our claims of promoting democracy will be seen as a farce.

Democracy itself can be a farce. At certain times, a mob of people can go along with anything. Really bad economic times tend to make it easy for leaders like Hitler, or for that matter, FDR, to get majority support for taking away freedom. In many ways, the US was lucky that we only got FDR, not Hitler, though of course the Depression in Germany made the US look like it was in boom times.

That's why we are a Republic with a Constitution.

Democracy can quickly degenerate into tyranny. A nation can even remain a "democracy" while becoming a brutal totalitarian state.

Democracy and Liberty are NOT the same thing, though a state that guarantees Liberty will have elements of Democracy.

Waitone
January 26, 2006, 05:45 PM
Has anyone considered that Israels turnover of territory to the Palestinians was really not just a wry peace gesture? From the very beginning I thought there was more to the tactic than what our press said. Then when I saw how terrorists flocked to Iraq to fight American infidels I was confident Israel was in the process of putting cheese in a mouse trap. Abandoning the Gaza strip was a masterful move because it gave Hezbollah et al a seaport through which they would import arms. Hezebollah gets a toehold in Israel which they think gies them a base of operations. Israel gets a free fire zone at the proper time.

Lennyjoe
January 26, 2006, 07:13 PM
I think we will leave it alone until Egypt, Syria and the likes start to help the Palastinians. After that, I'm afraid that we will be in the thick of it.

Something tells me that we will see a major middle eastern war before our time is up.

Zundfolge
January 26, 2006, 07:29 PM
ArmedBear is correct.


Democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

bjbarron
January 26, 2006, 07:43 PM
Well, you can't say it isn't out in the open.

A majority of the Palis voted for an avowed terrorist organization instead of a stealth terrorist organization. They made their choice.

No more money to the Palis from the US or the EU should be the first step. Let the Saudis and Egyptians support them.

The UN, of course, will accept an Hamas rep with open arms. Freakin' worthless organization when it comes to international peace keeping.

The Palis never miss a chance to choose the wrong side...never. The world, not just the Israelis, now have the perfect excuse to treat these troglodytes exactly the same way these idiots treat the rest of the world.

A civil war is a lot closer for Gaza than it is for Iraq. Get the popcorn and comfy up...they made a mistake and the falafel is gonna fly.

gc70
January 26, 2006, 08:51 PM
I guess I am naturally a contrarian...

Arafat and his buddies in Fatah were terrorists until they become the government of the Palestinian Authority. Once they got government titles, they devoted their attention to feeding at the public trough rather than focusing on terrorism.

Now, the Palestinians have given Fatah the boot for being too corrupt and have voted for Hamas, which has actually been doing good things for the Palestinian people. After the Hamas guys settle into their new government offices, they may also find that government graft and corruption is more rewarding and less dangerous than terrorism.

GoRon
January 26, 2006, 09:01 PM
Now the Palestinians and Hamas can be held responsible directly for the actions they have supported.

My advice to the Palestinians would be to be careful.

Before it was a terrorist group that was performing the violence and the people were victims. Now the people have spoken and the terrorist group has the official stamp of approval via the ballot box.

The gloves are off.

ceetee
January 26, 2006, 09:27 PM
Democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

But Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote...

North Texan
January 26, 2006, 09:41 PM
Dirka dirka?

Grey54956
January 26, 2006, 10:01 PM
What this means is that the next Hamas suicide bombing will no longer be qualified as a terrorist act carried out by a fringe group.

Now suicide bombings will be interpretted as an act of war by the Palestinian state. Israel will respond, appropriately, by declaring war on Palestine, and rolling them over.

Israel will win, mostly by destroying the Palestinians or scattering them into neighboring states, and we can finally have peace in the middle east.

Sounds okay to me.

dolanp
January 26, 2006, 10:11 PM
Curious how support for Hamas grows all of a sudden after 40 years of Fatah... all at the same time we happen to be over there on our crusades in the Middle East.

GoRon
January 26, 2006, 10:14 PM
Curious how support for Hamas grows all of a sudden after 40 years of Fatah... all at the same time we happen to be over there on our crusades in the Middle East.

It must be Bush's fault:rolleyes:

dogbaloo
January 26, 2006, 10:34 PM
This is a rather ominous sign. The palastenians elect hamas, the terrorist organization, Iran decides to thumb it's nose at the world and build up it's nuclear technology while simultaniously their president states that Isreal should be wiped clean from the map; depending on who you believe, our military is stretched precariously thin, and much of the western world is absolutely convinced that nothing bad will happen if we can only passify each other. Of course the UN will protect everyone.

We're screwed.

Something tells me that a conversation with a recruiter at my ripe age at 40 would yield a position in the armed forces despite the current age restrictions. We should start looking for a strategy to ramp up boys and girls, just in case our elected bozos sit on their hands looking for a cleaner solution than one which calls for widespread, wholesale annihilation when required.

"Fasten your seatbelts boys. We're in for a bumpy ride."

Standing Wolf
January 26, 2006, 10:49 PM
And why is Jimmy Carter the election circus leader? What brought that about?
Is he supposed to give it some legitimacy since he's an ex President?

He was an utter failure as an American president. His crowning "achievement" was to do precisely nothing about the take-over of the American embassy in Iran, which endeared him to leftist extremists and Islamic terrorist savages the world over.

GoRon
January 26, 2006, 11:10 PM
This is a rather ominous sign. The palastenians elect hamas, the terrorist organization, Iran decides to thumb it's nose at the world and build up it's nuclear technology while simultaniously their president states that Isreal should be wiped clean from the map;

This isn't ominous, all that is different from the past is there are no pretences.

Everyone is admitting what they believed all along.

The Islamists don't believe that Israel should be wiped clean from the map because of US policy.

stevelyn
January 27, 2006, 10:45 AM
Hamas was elected to the Palistinian govt by the people in a lawful election. It would be in everybody's best interest to recognize and treat it as such. Duhbya's refusal to recognize them is the last thing that's needed right now and could cause instability before anyone takes power.:banghead:
In the meantime it isn't any of our business nor is it our problem and we should butt out of their affairs.

Lone_Gunman
January 27, 2006, 10:47 AM
Not any of our affair???

Israel is our only ally in the Middle East that we can count on, and we certainly need to support them in any way necessary.

Biker
January 27, 2006, 10:49 AM
Would you agree that "necessary" is subjective?

Biker

TexasRifleman
January 27, 2006, 10:50 AM
Hamas was elected to the Palistinian govt by the people in a lawful election. It would be in everybody's best interest to recognize and treat it as such. Duhbya's refusal to recognize them is the last thing that's needed right now and could cause instability before anyone takes power.:banghead:
In the meantime it isn't any of our business nor is it our problem and we should butt out of their affairs.

There are 2 threads on this, so it's confusing. I assume they will be joined before long..... anyway.

Let's play "what if" to this.

Hitler was elected as Chancellor by a lawful election as well.

"What if" you could go back, and you knew the results, would you still say Hitlers' election was legitimate?

What do you think the chances are here that Hamas will all of a sudden "go legit"?
If you had good reason to believe Hitler would do what he did, would you act?

If you have good reason to believe Hamas will not change it's ways, do you act?

Lone_Gunman
January 27, 2006, 11:36 AM
I have said since the Iraq Invasion that Bush's plan for "democracy" in the middle east was stupid. We don't want democracy to prevail in countries where the majority of citizens hate us. The election of Hammas is an example of what happens when people that hate us vote. They vote for people we don't like. Big surprise.

This will not be the only time democracy fails in the mid east.

Master Blaster
January 27, 2006, 11:59 AM
Actually what happened is no surprise.

Its the natural consequence of negotiating with terrorists and having a policy of appeasment. It started when they let Arafat back into the territories (thanks bill Clinton, didnt get you nobel peace prize did ya.:cuss: ), and he began his campaign of terror against Israel. We then insisted along with the rest of the world on negotiations with a terrorist.

Israel then gave the Terrorists land for peace, which sent the signal that terrorism is rewarded. So now it should be no surprise that the Palestinians voted for the terrorists that brought them territory and the posibility of their own country.:) And of couse the fact that Fatah was corrupted by all of the western money we and the Euopeans gave them (appeasment and a bribe) and which the palestinian people never saw a penny of......
Then you have the fact that Hamas has provided people with schools, hospitals and medicine as well as land............and of couse asense that they could fight the Israelis and get something other than dead....

An here we are....

It really is that simple

Benjamin Netanyahu, head of Likud (the hawks) will be elected prime minister, and he will go back to the policy of not negotaiting with terrorists, or giving away any land, and a healthy dose of high explosives bullets and containment.

R.H. Lee
January 27, 2006, 11:59 AM
Duhbya's refusal to recognize them is the last thing that's needed right now and could cause instability before anyone takes power. Now GWB is reponsible for 'instability' in the middle east? There has been far too much tolerance of this third world rabble, lending to a legitimacy that simply doesn't exist. Terrorists should simply be squashed and bulldozed over like the vermin they are.

bjbarron
January 27, 2006, 01:34 PM
Hamas was elected to the Palistinian govt by the people in a lawful election. It would be in everybody's best interest to recognize and treat it as such

With the added fillup now that Hamas will be the official government of the Palistine.

No more can they be a minor portion of the government and claim that they have no control over what terror occurs, or blame everything on the Fatah. They'll be sending reps to the UN and as ambassadors....what fun.

Anything they do to Israel will have the full force and majesty of the elected government of a country...and all the responsibility for what happens next.

I personally think that the last thing they wanted was to be in total control of the country. They will almost have to back off of their terror campaign (or use surrogates) or get blacklisted by the world...much less lose all the billions they get from Europe.

They're running out of money...within a couple of months, I read. If they're not good, say goodbye to all those bucks from the EU.

I'm personally expecting a civil war. Get the popcorn ready.

stevelyn
January 27, 2006, 01:53 PM
There are 2 threads on this, so it's confusing. I assume they will be joined before long..... anyway.

Let's play "what if" to this.

Hitler was elected as Chancellor by a lawful election as well.

"What if" you could go back, and you knew the results, would you still say Hitlers' election was legitimate?

What do you think the chances are here that Hamas will all of a sudden "go legit"?
If you had good reason to believe Hitler would do what he did, would you act?

If you have good reason to believe Hamas will not change it's ways, do you act?

"What if" dosen't fly in this situation. Forward thought tracing isn't an acceptable method of international diplomacy for the same reason we don't arrest criminals for what they might do.

Hamas may not go legit. Are you going to advocate a military action against Palistine for what you think they might do? Again "None of our affair". Messing in a sovereign country's internal affairs is bad news in case no one has noticed the last three years.

Exactly how is Israel our only ally in the ME? Besides being our biggest welfare client sucking dollars and material out of us, what have they accomplished as our "ally"? They're not what I would call a democracy or even a free country.

Our real enemy is Saudi Arabia. We gave them a free pass on 9/11. Of what value is Israel there? We can't have them join up with us and clean house in the ME because it would incite a war involving all the ME states. Hell, we have to keep them on a tight leash as it is now to keep the entire region from a melt-down. As I see it they're more of a liability than an asset.

Now GW is responsible for instability in the ME?

Read the context of what I wrote. A lot of work and concessions have been made to get the situation between the Israelis and Palistinians stabilized enough to where they would even talk to each other.
The Israelis have reluctantly given up land in an effort to make the peace process work.

The Palistinians now have what they can call a homeland-something they've been bitching about ever since I can remember. The next obvious step is for the people to form a govt that they can live under and work cooperatively with other nations hopefully bringing peace and prosperity to the area.
They have held elections like we've advocated. Now suddenly they've done everything that we've wanted, but because we don't like the results we refuse to recognize the govt? In that context GW's refusal could very well bring instability to the process snuffing out any hope for stable Israeli-Palistinian relations before it gets started. Then we're right back where we started.

It is in everyone's best interest to recognize and work with the new Palistinian govt, but put the onus on them to perform rather than derailing it because you don't like the winners.

gc70
January 27, 2006, 05:06 PM
Exactly how is Israel our only ally in the ME? Besides being our biggest welfare client sucking dollars and material out of us, what have they accomplished as our "ally"? They're not what I would call a democracy or even a free country.Wow - maybe we need to get Jimmy Carter to supervise Israel's next elections to ensure that they are fair and democratic.

As distasteful as it appears to be to a variety of people, both the Israelis and the Palestinians are practicing democracy. If we really believe in democracy, we need to accept the results, even if we don't like them.

Lobotomy Boy
January 27, 2006, 08:55 PM
"What if" you could go back, and you knew the results, would you still say Hitlers' election was legitimate?

It was no more or no less legitimate than the election of our own president, like it or not.

shermacman
January 27, 2006, 09:01 PM
"What if" you could go back, and you knew the results, would you still say Hitlers' election was legitimate?

It was no more or no less legitimate than the election of our own president, like it or not.

Poor analogy. Clinton never even got anywhere near a majority of the vote.

Lobotomy Boy
January 27, 2006, 09:17 PM
Poor analogy. Clinton never even got anywhere near a majority of the vote.

Neither Hitler nor Clinton had to have their respective nations' highest courts review the legitimacy of their elections. This does not mean that Bush wasn't legitimately elected, but his election was certainly at least as troublesome (and legitimate) as Hitler's.

shermacman
January 27, 2006, 09:32 PM
Worse analogy.

Two things happened with their respective nations highest courts.
Clinton was found guilty of perjury and was prohibited from practicing in front of his nation's highest court.
Hilter's was blown up.

Lobotomy Boy
January 27, 2006, 09:48 PM
Two things happened with their respective nations highest courts.
Clinton was found guilty of perjury and was prohibited from practicing in front of his nation's highest court.
Hilter's was blown up.

And this relates to their elections how?

You do seem to know a thing or two about crappy analogies--you lead by example on this issue.

gc70
January 28, 2006, 02:32 AM
Would anyone care to discuss the relative merits of 9mm versus .45 ACP?

I am reasonably certain that we will soon be informed that George Bush or Bill Clinton are responsible for either the merits or deficiencies of one caliber or both.:neener:

Tall Man
January 28, 2006, 06:59 PM
Israel is our only ally in the Middle East that we can count on, and we certainly need to support them in any way necessary.
You know, I don't support one cent of our tax dollars going to Israel. Not one red cent. Why? Read on.

..the Israelis..are practicing democracy
Really?

This is a country with no constitution and a weak parliment. By law, Jews are not allowed to marry Gentiles. Israel has unscrupulously used their ~400 nuclear bombs to blackmail the United States (for instance, they forced Kissinger and Nixon to airlift supplies during the 1973 Yom Kippur War). Underlying their world view is a simplistic, 19th Century-style nationalism, which says: our people stands above all others, other people are inferior. The rights of our nation are sacred, other nations have no rights at all. The rules of morality apply only to relations within the nation, not to relations between nations.

This is why the neocons will lead us to war with Iran. This is what brought about the illegal and immoral invasion of the sovereign country of Iraq. This is the fruit of our entangling alliance with what the British thought would be a good idea after WWII: Jewish colonization of Palestine.

Stevelyn got things right.

TM

BadAsh87
January 29, 2006, 02:39 AM
By jewish law.. no, jews cant marry gentiles, but by israeli law they indeed can. So you're wrong on that. How many times have you even been to israel? I've lived there for 2 years. Call israel's government what you want, they are the only democratically/somewhat stable democracy's in the middle east and a best friend of the US. They share intelligence with us, conduct joint military exercises, and help improve our military hardware(especially our anti-missile systems). When ???? hits the fan in the middle east we can always count on Israel to support us. You have just gone toooo far to the left on this one. I bet if you had it your way, saddam hussein would be back in power, the jews would be kicked out of israel, and the americans would lose in Iraq. All you people do is whine and complain. Ever wake up in the middle of the night to hear a couple of cats clawing eachother to death? well thats what its like listening to liberals whine about how Israel and America are the evil tyrants in the world. I proudly bought a bumper sticker recently that says "Annoy a Liberal, Work Hard and Be Happy". Money well spent if you ask me.

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