Virginia State Delegate has an ND in his Office (merged threads)


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dk-corriveau
January 26, 2006, 07:23 PM
Delegate apologizes for shot (http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-gunshot_jan26,0,825311.story?coll=dp-widget-news)
By HUGH LESSIG
(804) 225-7345
January 26, 2006, 3:22 PM EST

RICHMOND -- A visibly shaken Virginia lawmaker apologized to his colleagues today after accidentally firing a handgun in his office while attempting to unload it.

Del. John S. Reid, R-Henrico, could still call it "a lucky shot." The slug slammed into a bulletproof vest that hangs on his door.

He had received the vest as a gag gift several years ago, but Reid was not laughing today.

He said he did not know if he would continue to carry a gun. "I've got some soul-searching to do about that, " he said.

Reid said he's had a permit to carry a gun for about two years and was carrying it because of unspecified phone calls he has received.

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V4Vendetta
January 26, 2006, 07:26 PM
Anyone else think he did it on purpose to try to give evidence to get more gun control?:scrutiny:

ArmedBear
January 26, 2006, 07:30 PM
Let me guess... It was some newer DAO gun without a manual safety.

There are some damn good reasons for having a manual safety, and this would be one of them.

Yes, I know, never trust the safety. I don't. But sure it does help prevent AD when loading/unloading the thing.

Justin
January 26, 2006, 07:30 PM
V4V, might want to adjust your metal hat, some of the rays are getting through.

:)

michiganfan
January 26, 2006, 07:33 PM
Justin LOL Are there any Republicans in favor of gun control or perhaps this is a closet Democrat trying to give the Republican party a bad name.

1911Tuner
January 26, 2006, 07:34 PM
Dear Mr. Reid,

The trigger is there to fire the gun. Pulling the trigger makes that happen.
Be careful!

Sincerely,

A concerned citizen

Maybe somebody will send him a letter...(Hint):D

dk-corriveau
January 26, 2006, 07:34 PM
He got an A- from the NRA and is a Republican. :scrutiny:

dogbaloo
January 26, 2006, 07:37 PM
is a function of the handler, not a function of the gun.

I suppose though that firing IS an acceptable way to unload it, but the office is probably not an acceptable place!

ArmedBear
January 26, 2006, 07:47 PM
is a function of the handler, not a function of the gun.

I suppose though that firing IS an acceptable way to unload it, but the office is probably not an acceptable place!

Agreed about safety, but...

I've seen two videos of AD's by on-duty law enforcement, one in a classroom full of kids, the other narrowly missing the face of a suspect who, while he was under arrest, probably didn't deserve execution for whatever he did.

Both happened with a certain Austrian semiauto that has a convenient safety that's part of the trigger.

I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I always thought that the safety and the trigger ought to be separate, since they have somewhat different purposes. Safety, in an indoor environment, involves a few things for me. Point the gun where no one will be hurt if it fires. Put the safety on, but pretend it's not. Keep my finger off the trigger. Drop the magazine. Check or unload the chamber.

If I do all of those things, the chances of tragedy are minimal. Any of them missing just means more chance for tragedy.

V4Vendetta
January 26, 2006, 07:51 PM
"V4V, might want to adjust your metal hat, some of the rays are getting through."

What do you mean?:confused:

HRLRDR22
January 26, 2006, 08:03 PM
I dont get how you accidentally fire a gun....like 1911 tuner said the trigger is there to fire the weapon. If i woulda done that at work I woulda been fired and probably arrested for illegally discharging a firearm in city limits....but then again I dont hold office in a virginia lawmakinf office.
2 cents are always free from me

MN_Strelok
January 26, 2006, 08:05 PM
Del. John S. Reid, R-Henrico, could still call it "a lucky shot." The slug slammed into a bulletproof vest that hangs on his door.

Lucky or aimed? Sounds like he could've been dry-firing. Well, attempting to dry-fire anyway...

Both happened with a certain Austrian semiauto that has a convenient safety that's part of the trigger.

And in both cases, fingers were on triggers when they should not have been. Check the military stats on NDs with Berettas and M-16s. If someone doesn't have proper training or respect for their firearm, a safety won't help.

(Not that I have anything against manual safeties. I've just seen too many people overcome safety features in the course of totally preventable accidents.)

1911 guy
January 26, 2006, 08:47 PM
As we all know, you can't unload a 1911 with the safety engaged, the slide won't move. Despite this, I have managed to keep my "booger hook" away from the "bang switch" and have yet to ND. I sense a recurring theme in all our posts.

Old Dog
January 26, 2006, 08:49 PM
I dont get how you accidentally fire a gun
There are some of us present who will (albeit somewhat shamefacedly) 'fess up that they have had a negligent discharge.

Typically it will happen when dry-firing a handgun one believes to be unloaded, having not checked the chamber ... or out of some other type of carelessness or outright stupidly (alcohol is often a factor). Speaking as someone who years ago put a hole in his bedroom ceiling with a pistol he thought unloaded, it can happen. Yes, the pistol should have been unloaded, but I simply failed to check. And this after being the beneficiary of some excellent high-speed training, both military and civilian, in handgun use, followed by several years of sustained training, carrying and shooting.

I'm not one of those who will say that everyone will someday have an ND. Many, perhaps most, of you will never be responsible for an ND. But let's not throw someone under the bus simply because he/she has an ND. Especially if they are man enough to step forward and talk about it publicly; let's all learn from it, and be thankful no one was injured or killed.

Justin
January 26, 2006, 09:12 PM
What do you mean?

Never attribute to malice or conspiracy that which can be the result of utter stupidity.

Preacherman
January 26, 2006, 09:16 PM
An ND in a political office? He's following Clinton's example...

:neener:

Mongo the Mutterer
January 26, 2006, 09:26 PM
Na Preacherman... Clinton wasn't an ND, he just didn't aim well :eek:

1911Tuner
January 26, 2006, 09:27 PM
An ND in a political office? He's following Clinton's example...

:neener:

O-kay...Scratch one more keyboard. Coffee in the works tends to make things go Snap-Fizzle-Pop.

Preacher...You're bad. Bad! Go to your room...

ROFL!

lucky_fool
January 26, 2006, 11:01 PM
I heard about this on the radio while driving home from work. My first thought was "Oh fudge, there goes all the pro-gun legislation in this General Assembly session right down the tubes." Only I didn't say fudge. :cuss:

Standing Wolf
January 26, 2006, 11:09 PM
Life is a lot simpler if you just leave guns loaded instead of fooling around with them.

dk-corriveau
January 26, 2006, 11:48 PM
Lucky_Fool

That was my thought as well when I first read the story. :banghead: :fire: I will be interested to see if the VCDL has anything to say about the events.

skidmark
January 27, 2006, 01:51 AM
Delegate Reid is fairly pro-2A and seems to be a friend of VCDL, for what that info is worth.

According to 3 news interviews today he states he was unloading the pistol (unspecified semiautomatic) and had problems with the "little button you press, right there next to the trigger." (Used hand to simulate gun and magazine release button.)

Del. Reid was honest enough to say that he "thought" he did not have his finger on the trigger but obviously must have, as that's why the round was fired. I have not heard Del. Reid say the gun "went off" or :it was an accident." Then again, I have not heard the term "negligent discharge" either.

Del. Reid stated he needs to do some "soul searching" about continuing to CCW. Sounds to me like the right and responsible thing to do after you have just pulled the trigger when you should not have had your finger anywhere near it.

The worst part of the local news reports was some state Senator (did not catch name or recognize the face) who made a comment that "all politicians" get threatening phone calls "but that is no reasaon to carry a gun." Guess he is one of those that have 911 set up on speed-dial, huh? (Speed-dial does make the cops respond faster, doesn't it? :rolleyes: )

I do not think this will kill any of the pro-gun legislation in the pipes this year. I'm more worried about the 2 pellet guns found in one of the Richmond middle schools. One was hidden in the ceiling of a boys' bathroom. (OK, yesterday they caught a kid with an unloaded 9mm and a (Boy Scout type) knife at the same school.)

Story on the news, right after the one about Del Reid, also stated there are 25 freestanding metal detectors at 6 area schools, and named the 3 high schools & 3 middle schools where they are.

stay safe.

skidmark

hirundo82
January 27, 2006, 02:06 AM
From what I've seen online, the gun was a KelTec .380 (sorry, not familiar with model numbers). And the person who said that nobody should carry a gun for self defense was Sen. Richard Saslaw, from the People's Republic of Fairfax of course.

skidmark
January 27, 2006, 02:26 AM
From VCDL:

In a strange twist, Delegate Jack Reid had an unintended discharge
while unloading his Kel-tec .380 in the General Assembly Building
today! No one was hurt and the bullet was stopped by a bulletproof
vest hanging on his door. (The vest had been given to him as a joke
by a policeman - but fate had a more important use for it.)

This is exactly why the restaurant ban has to go. The more you
needlessly handle a gun, the more the chance of an unintended
discharge. Ideally we should just be able to put on our protection
in the morning and not touch it until we remove it that night. The
restaurant ban constantly interferes with that simple plan by making
many people handle their gun so that the gun can be left in the car.
Even for those of us that open carry instead, we may have to handle a
gun so that we can switch from a concealed-carry holster to an
open-carry holster.

That's silly - let's get rid the much hated restaurant ban THIS year!

The "restaurant ban" prohibits concealed carry in places that serve alcoholic beverages, but allows open carry. Lots of gun shifting seen taking place between cars & front doors at a number of places I patronize. I just know the Law of Averages has to catch up.

stay safe.

skidmark

Kodiaz
January 27, 2006, 02:30 AM
There is only one thing to be said about ND's


Keep your booger hook off the bang switch:neener:

Kim
January 27, 2006, 03:13 AM
My brother-in-law had a ND and he is very careful with firearms. But this time like always he goofed up. It was partially my fault. I carry a Kimber. Some how and I don't know if I can explain it right but One cartridge was in the chamber and when I pulled back to slide to check another cartridge scooted up and angulated itself next to it. Well I tried to pull the slide back again to fix this and another cartridge just barely peeked its head up. Well I left my firearm on the table. I live by myself. I figured when I got home I would call him as he lives next door and have him come down and fix my mess. Well while I was at work he came into my house ( I am his sister-in -law and he lives next door) and dropped my mail off. He saw my carry firearm sitting on the table and picked it up and said -----------What has she done???????? He fixed it but did not check the chamber. He pulled the trigger and shot a hole in one of my chairs and some schrapnel through my lab coat. Al least he did not kill the dog or cat. He was embarressed but also he told me not to leave my firearm tempting him to fix my mess. At least it was pointed in a safe direction even though it was indoors. I"m sorry but I laugh about it still.

rick_reno
January 27, 2006, 03:30 AM
Here's a news report on this incident where they make note of VA's lax gun laws.

Va. Lawmaker's Gun Discharges in Office
Jan 26 11:19 PM US/Eastern
Email this story

By BOB LEWIS
Associated Press Writer


RICHMOND, Va.


A state lawmaker's handgun accidentally discharged in his office Thursday as he tried to unload it, sending a bullet zinging across the room.

It was stopped by a bulletproof vest hanging on the door.

"That absorbed the entire thing," said Del. John S. "Jack" Reid, a 63- year-old Republican who was both shaken and embarrassed by the incident.

He later took the rare step of apologizing to both the Democratic and Republican caucuses before Thursday's floor session, and then made another apology on the House floor.

Reid said he had taken the tiny automatic handgun out of the breast pocket of his jacket and was ejecting the ammunition clip when it discharged.

He said it was fortunate that the vest was hanging where it was because the .380-caliber bullet could have passed through the door and possibly hit someone. Reid received the vest last year as a gag gift from the sheriff of Henrico County, the Richmond suburb where he lives.

The lawmaker said he obtained a permit to carry a concealed weapon two years ago after becoming concerned about his security. He declined to elaborate on the threat.

"I think all of us occasionally get some phone calls that concern us, so during the session I've been carrying it," he said.

Virginia's gun laws are among the nation's least restrictive. So revered are gun rights that the General Assembly allows permit holders to bring firearms into buildings on Capitol Square, including the Capitol itself. Several legislators carry firearms.

Thursday's incident reprised the debate over allowing firearms inside the buildings at the seat of state government.

"It does raise a safety question," Gov. Timothy M. Kaine said. "You've got Boy Scout groups and pages and all kinds of folks walking around in the halls, so I think it's something the Legislature needs to look at."

House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith, a Republican and key gun- rights supporter, said the accidental discharge of Reid's gun is no reason to consider tightening rules.

"The truth is you're more likely to get hurt in a car accident than by a gun," he said. "So why restrict people's freedoms?"

Kim
January 27, 2006, 04:05 AM
I am really sick of how people in the country think. I am tired of everytime something happens someone wants to pass a law or regulation or procedure. It is getting ridiculous. We as a people are ridiculous. This whole lobby reform kick the government and people are on is ridiculous. We do not need more laws. The Abramhoff guy already broke many laws. He was caught. Good. Why go futher. Same ignorant type thinking that passes many of our laws today. One kid gets hurt falling off something and that something should be banned or the ground below that object should be made in such a way that if said child falls no harm happens. We will all be in padded rooms for our own good someday. At least we can not get hurt. Oh heck I just got a paper cut. Maybe I need to call the ambulance.:neener:

etex
January 27, 2006, 05:02 AM
If the gun was a Kel-tec .380 I find it hard to believe he accidently pulled the trigger. Maybe a Glock type trigger but not a Kel-tec.The Kel-tec has a very long, heavy double action trigger pull, like a DA revolver. I would be willing to bet he thought he was going to dry fire at the bullet proof vest but their was a round in the chamber. I have a freind who shot his TV set pulling the same stunt.

shermacman
January 27, 2006, 09:03 AM
It happened to hit a bullet proof vest hanging on the door....


Riiiiight.


At the time, he was humming: "And I've got ocean front property in Arizona."

1911Tuner
January 27, 2006, 09:53 AM
Quote:

>Del. Reid was honest enough to say that he "thought" he did not have his finger on the trigger but obviously must have, as that's why the round was fired. I have not heard Del. Reid say the gun "went off" or :it was an accident." Then again, I have not heard the term "negligent discharge" either.<
******************

OMG!! An honest politician AND one that admits that he was at fault...even if he said that he "thought" that his finger was off the trigger. This is the most newsworthy facet of the whole story. Almost as rare a creature as guns that "go off" all by themselves. :D

dk-corriveau
January 27, 2006, 10:22 AM
A little more local coverage on the incident. I'm pleased with Del. Melvin's cool headed reaction, especially from a Democrat!
“Just like anything else, accidents do happen,” said Del. Kenneth Melvin, D-Portsmouth. “I’m sure he’ll learn from this and be more careful with his handgun.”

Legislator apologizes after accidentally firing gun in his office
By WARREN FISKE, The Virginian-Pilot
&#169; January 27, 2006

RICHMOND — An Henrico County legislator apologized to the House of Delegates on Thursday for firing his handgun in his legislative office.

Republican Jack Reid said the weapon went off accidentally about 9 a.m. while he was ejecting the clip from his .380-caliber Kel-Tec handgun.

The discharged round was stopped by a bullet-proof vest that was hanging on Reid’s office door. No damage was done to state property, according to a report filed with the Capitol Police.

Reid, who has a concealed weapons permit, notified the Capitol police, and no charges were filed. Several hours later, the chagrined lawmaker personally apologized at separate meetings of the House Republican and Democratic caucuses and then before the entire chamber.

“Everyone has a right to feel safe here,” Reid said on the House floor.

Reid’s colleagues applauded after his apology on the floor and accepted his explanation.

“Just like anything else, accidents do happen,” said Del. Kenneth Melvin, D-Portsmouth. “I’m sure he’ll learn from this and be more careful with his handgun.”

Several lawmakers said Reid is not the only member of the General Assembly who carries a concealed weapon.

“I do know factually that some people have obtained concealed weapons permits because they have had life-threatening phone calls,” said Del. Harry Purkey, R-Virginia Beach. “Their families have had life-threatening calls. They decided to get a weapon in case one of these kooks decided to follow through with their threat.”

Reed said the bullet-proof vest was a gift from law enforcement officials that he leaves hanging in his office and does not wear.

Delegate's gun goes off in his office
An accidental shot in the General Assembly building prompts an apology from Del. John S. Reid.BY HUGH LESSIG
(804) 225-7345
January 27, 2006
RICHMOND -- A visibly shaken Virginia lawmaker apologized to his colleagues Thursday after accidentally firing a handgun in his office while attempting to unload it.

But Del. John S. Reid could still call it a lucky shot: The slug slammed into a bullet-resistant vest that hung on the door.

He received the vest as a gag gift last year, but Reid wasn't laughing Thursday. His normally booming voice was stilled as he discussed the incident with reporters. He said he wasn't sure if he would continue to carry a gun.

"I've got some soul searching to do about that," he said.

Reid said he arrived at his office shortly before 9 a.m. and closed the door. He carried the gun, a small .380-caliber automatic, in the breast pocket of his sport coat. His normal routine is to remove the gun and take out the clip. He then pockets the clip and leaves the unloaded gun in his office.

He pulled the gun from its sheath and pressed a button to release the clip. "As I went to hit that, the thing discharged," he said.

He wore a small bandage below his thumb where the slide hit his skin.

Reid said he went to the Capitol Police, who sent an investigator to his office.

The Henrico County Republican then took the rare step of asking to meet with the House Democratic Caucus, where he apologized. He did the same for his Republican colleagues, then apologized publicly in a floor speech.

Asked later why he felt a need to apologize, his voice trembled as he said, "I just ... that's a reflection on everybody, in one way or another. I don't want to reflect negatively."

Reid said he's had a permit to carry a gun for about two years. He began carrying it because of phone calls he had received over the years. While he was never directly threatened, he said the calls made him uneasy.

State law allows people who have obtained the proper permit to carry a concealed weapon into the General Assembly building or the Patrick Henry Building, now serving as the temporary capitol.

Both buildings have metal detectors, but lawmakers and staffers generally are not checked.

Reid said he doesn't feel the need to be armed once he reaches the Square. The Capitol Police do a good job of protecting lawmakers and the public, he said.

Other lawmakers have reportedly carried guns on Capitol Square, where Reid and other conservatives staunchly protect gun rights in vote after vote.

Reid said the accident would not make him change his voting stance, but he will review his own habits.

"It's at least causing me to evaluate myself," he said.

Maj. Mike Jones of the Capitol Police said Reid would not be charged with a crime, because he did not deliberately fire his gun and he was not behaving recklessly.

"It was an accident," Jones said. "It was a significant accident. But for anyone who carries a firearm, it was a lesson learned."

Gov. Tim Kaine, who held an impromptu press conference on several issues Thursday, was asked about the incident and whether Virginia should change its law about carrying guns.

"I understand Jack's been a real trouper about it, but it does raise a safety question," he said. "You've got Boy Scout groups, pages, all kinds of folks walking around in the halls. So I think it's something the legislature needs to look at."

Maxwell
January 27, 2006, 10:56 AM
I am tired of everytime something happens someone wants to pass a law or regulation or procedure. It is getting ridiculous.

The old tactic of standing on fresh graves to get people to agree with whatever agenda you have.

If someone says something stupid on tv, its time for more censorship.
If a soldier dies in iraq, its time to withdraw.
If a dog bites someone, its time to erradicate the species.
If a mining accident happens, its time to assault the industry with more laws.

It gets wild at times.
I saw one thread on fark where a private warplane crashed, and within 10 posts someone was shouting how the right to bear arms didnt apply to civilans... even tho it was an unarmed trainer that crashed and there was no mention of it previously.

Every time an incident happens with a weapon, its time for a gun grabber to refresh his assault on the 2nd amendment.

44Brent
January 27, 2006, 11:36 AM
Why was he UNLOADING his weapons? I can't think of any good reason to unload a weapon except when at the range or when cleaning.

dk-corriveau
January 27, 2006, 12:06 PM
And off go the gun grabbers. Please feel free to post a comment to Mr. Fisher (by clicking the comments link at the end of the column). :banghead: :cuss: :fire:
Marc Fisher Column (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/)

ccw007
January 27, 2006, 12:22 PM
Take a look at this http://www.wxii12.com/news/6490706/detail.html
Bullet Flies As Lawmaker's Gun Fires In Statehouse

POSTED: 6:51 am EST January 27, 2006

RICHMOND, VA. -- It was a close call at the Richmond, Va., statehouse.

Delegate Jack Reid said he was unloading his handgun in his legislative office when the weapon went off by accident, sending a bullet zinging across the room.

It was stopped by a bulletproof vest hanging on the door. No one was injured. Reid said the gun discharged while he was removing the clip.

Looking somber and shaken, Reid apologized to fellow lawmakers in a brief floor statement.

He does have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

Such permits are commonplace in Virginia, where even visitors with permits can carry firearms inside legislative buildings.

But the incident raised questions about safety in the General Assembly.

Gov. Timothy Kaine said there is a safety issue involved. Kaine said with Boy Scout groups, pages and other people walking around the halls, it's something the Legislature needs to take a look at.

Manedwolf
January 27, 2006, 12:26 PM
Take a look at this http://www.wxii12.com/news/6490706/detail.html

Logical solution: Don't let Jack Reid, an unsafe gun owner, carry in the statehouse.

Illogical solution: Don't let anyone but criminals not declaring their weapons carry in the statehouse.

geekWithA.45
January 27, 2006, 12:28 PM
Logical solution: take up a collection to send Jack Reid to NRA handguns 101, and leave everyone else the hell alone.

ccw007
January 27, 2006, 12:29 PM
Logical solution: take up a collection to send Jack Reid to NRA handguns 101, and leave everyone else the hell alone.

+1 on that

Maxwell
January 27, 2006, 12:30 PM
Being a politician they can get unlimited carry licenses that would override any restrictions.
Several anti-guns already make use of it to protect themselves, because the "militia" term that they think only applies to the National guard somehow applies to movie stars and politicians too.

A law wouldnt have stopped this incident.

engineer151515
January 27, 2006, 12:30 PM
I kept waiting to read that the gun was a Glock.

Glocks seem to be blamed for going off by themselves all the time, although my three have failed to do so over the years.


+1 on the safety 101 refresher course for Jack.

GunnySkox
January 27, 2006, 12:32 PM
O-kay...Scratch one more keyboard. Coffee in the works tends to make things go Snap-Fizzle-Pop.
Preacher...You're bad. Bad! Go to your room...

ROFL!

That does it, I'm going to start showing up at all you coffee-spraying old guys' houses and force one of these on you:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/rollup-keyboard.jpg

Because your reckless disregard for the sanctity of input devices offends my sensibilities!

Gah, talk about "negligent discharge". At least that congressmanguy shot a bulletproof vest, you guys are coffeeing innocent.. uh.. appliancestanders!

~GnSx
:D

m14rick
January 27, 2006, 02:46 PM
I read this earlier, on the VCDL alert message. I am wondering Why in the devil was he unloading his pistol, in the first place?
:confused:

pax
January 27, 2006, 02:58 PM
It was stopped by a bulletproof vest hanging on the door. No one was injured.
Kudos to Jack Reid for having the brains to make sure his gun was pointed in a safe direction while he was unloading it, and for having the foresight to hang a bulletproof vest on his door to provide a good backstop.

Bummer about the finger slip, but I'm not willing to say he needs remedial anything. He goofed. Because he followed the rules, no one was hurt.

That's what it's all about.

pax

Old Dog
January 27, 2006, 03:28 PM
Dupe thread. Here's the first (from yesterday):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=179218

"Way to go moron?" The guy is a respected lawmaker, a rare pro-gun delegate, and he was totally honest about his mistake.

lysander
January 27, 2006, 03:40 PM
Wow...both Legal and Political in one post.

I wonder if we will see any charges filed?

Mr. James
January 27, 2006, 03:54 PM
Hey, this is Virginia we're talkin' about here. Pro-gun delegates aren't all that rare!! :p

jondar
January 27, 2006, 03:57 PM
If the gun was a Kel-tec .380 I find it hard to believe he accidently pulled the trigger. Maybe a Glock type trigger but not a Kel-tec.The Kel-tec has a very long, heavy double action trigger pull, like a DA revolver. I would be willing to bet he thought he was going to dry fire at the bullet proof vest but their was a round in the chamber. I have a freind who shot his TV set pulling the same stunt.

I think this poster is right on the money.

ccw007
January 27, 2006, 04:20 PM
Dupe thread. Here's the first (from yesterday):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=179218

"Way to go moron?" The guy is a respected lawmaker, a rare pro-gun delegate, and he was totally honest about his mistake.

Sorry about the dup I did a quick search and did not see that one. Mods feel free to close this one

He may be a respected lawmaker, but that is no excuses for a ND. I respect him for being honest about his mistake, but the fact is someone needs to tell him the trigger is not the correct button to press when removing his magazine. I am afraid this may come back to haunt the people in VA as well as others in the country and that is the root of my annoyance. He may have done some good deeds for gun owners, but this could do more harm then he could ever repair. I have little sympathy for him or anyone that discharges their gun from an act of negligence. This may sound harsh, but in this case it was a stupid mistake. I am an anal safety Nazi when comes to firearms, I get it from my Dad. However, neither of us has ever accidentally fired our gun. People are human and accidents will happen, but there is no room for negligence when caring a firearm.

Meplat
January 27, 2006, 04:21 PM
There are some of us present who will (albeit somewhat shamefacedly) 'fess up that they have had a negligent discharge.

(Red faced) Yeah, ah did. Was a kid, shooting a single action .22 revolver and a lever action .22 rifle. Had emptied out the revolver, taken it to half cock, opened the loading gate, refilled her, closed loading gate, holstered weapon without thinking to lower the hammer. (This in the days before transfer bars). Walked downrange, set up new tin cans, walked back uprange, picked up lever action, fired. When done, had the lever action in my right hand (barrel pointed up...safety first, right?:rolleyes: ) and let the steel crescent butt of the rifle drop right smack on top of the half-cocked hammer. Hammer dropped, shot a hole through the bottom of the holster, creased the leg of my jeans all the way down my leg, took a small chunk out of the part of the sole of my boot that sticks out further than the leather do.

One VERY lucky, VERY scared, and VERY much wiser 12 year old after that. Also one who had to explain to his Dad just HOW he could be so careless....


I'm not one of those who will say that everyone will someday have an ND. Many, perhaps most, of you will never be responsible for an ND. But let's not throw someone under the bus simply because he/she has an ND. Especially if they are man enough to step forward and talk about it publicly; let's all learn from it, and be thankful no one was injured or killed.

I can and WILL say it...over and over again. Don't logically think it's true, but by saying it as a mantra, hope to remind myself and others that SHOULD an AD occur, that the results aren't tragedy. Or at least not more tragic than having to explain just WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING, BOY??????? to my Dad. Tragedy enough in that.:D

Old Dog
January 27, 2006, 04:37 PM
CCW007,

I am always somewhat bemused by the self-righteousness that comes out whenever a story appears about negligent discharges. Okay, so in your mind, you are incapable of being responsible for an ND because you are an "anal gun-safety Nazi." Fine. Assuming you drive, though -- have you ever in your life done something stupid while behind the wheel of a 3000-pound killing machine? No. I thought not. How 'bout when lighting a barbeque grill? Or fixing your kitchen sink garbage disposal, or trouble-shooting an electrical circuit in your house? Thing is, most of us, as you say, are human and capable of mistakes.

Many NDs with folks who've been well-trained and are entirely comfortable around firearms. Military and law enforcement NDs occur regularly. Are all these folks "morons?" No. Ten years ago, I had an ND, in my bedroom, with a pistol I thought unloaded -- I didn't check the chamber. Am I a moron? No. Was I stupidly negligent? Yes. But at the time, I was carrying a firearm daily on duty, had had some of the best military firearms training and gone through some excellent civilian law enforcement training, plus had been around firearms for over thirty years and shooting 'em for twenty.

Will everyone who's never had an ND eventually have one? No, of course not. But many will, in spite of all they've learned about gun safety, and in spite of all their experience and training. Regrettable, avoidable, but fact.

Hobie
January 27, 2006, 06:02 PM
Sorry about the dup I did a quick search and did not see that one. Mods feel free to close this one

He may be a respected lawmaker, but that is no excuses for a ND. I respect him for being honest about his mistake, but the fact is someone needs to tell him the trigger is not the correct button to press when removing his magazine. I am afraid this may come back to haunt the people in VA as well as others in the country and that is the root of my annoyance. He may have done some good deeds for gun owners, but this could do more harm then he could ever repair. I have little sympathy for him or anyone that discharges their gun from an act of negligence. This may sound harsh, but in this case it was a stupid mistake. I am an anal safety Nazi when comes to firearms, I get it from my Dad. However, neither of us has ever accidentally fired our gun. People are human and accidents will happen, but there is no room for negligence when caring a firearm.Yep, summary execution is called for. Nothing less will prevent another incident. Better yet, let's draw and quarter him. Jeesh.

Man made a mistake, nobody was hurt, AND he learned something from it. Perhaps a lot of other folks (including the other legislators who carry) learned something as well. Not good but not as bad as it could have been.

Personally, I'm a little tired of what seems to be pervasive zero tolerance for error. This is what has led to the criminalization of everything and the arrests of 6-year olds for behavior that should get them a spanking at most.

ccw007
January 27, 2006, 07:15 PM
Luckily no one was hurt here that is the important thing. However, having zero tolerance of ND's may not be the best stance, but to say accidents happen no big deal is not right either. My stance may change if I have a ND, and I cannot say I will never have one because I am not perfect. I can say I have never come close to having one. I do feel that if you follow every safety rule to the letter the chance of have a ND is almost nonexistent.

If this had been "John Q Public" I would be willing to bet he would be facing charges. Since is was not John Q Public we have no way of knowing. It will be interesting to see if he gets charged with something or is he exempt from prosecution?

Now using the Automobile as an example. If you do something negligent there are charges you face for that and the same for discharging a firearm in a wreak less manner. As far as me doing something stupid in a car well... lets just say my wife tells me I am an old fart driver :D. I cannot recall ever doing anything stupid, but who knows.. If I did, no one got hurt. I was never much for goofing off with a car in my teen years because of auto accidents I seen when I volunteered at the fire dept.

I will say when it comes to my ex-wife boy was I negligent when I married her. :neener:

dk-corriveau
January 27, 2006, 07:20 PM
For the record, according to the Virginia Pilot (http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=98672&ran=8262&tref=po) no charges were filed.

shermacman
January 27, 2006, 09:06 PM
I always pontificate: "There is no such thing as a gun accident." It implies that an ND is always a choice, out of laziness, stupidity, carelessness or ignorance.




I have only had a couple of ND's...:eek:

pax
January 27, 2006, 09:11 PM
It wasn't good luck that no one was hurt.

No one was hurt because he was following the Four Cardinal Rules.

Yeah, people goof. But when they goof while following the safety rules, no one gets hurt.

That's why there are four interlocking safety rules, and not just one catch-all. Because people goof.

pax

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