[Shane]

The 5 cent per bullet tax didn't go through last year. But, now apparently they are going to try a new bill that taxes 10 cents per bullet in California. This is according to a gun store owner that I trust (he's always been honest to me). CAn anyone confirm this and/or provide links to the exact bill?

I know its chances of passing are low, but I still am concerned since this IS California, land of the goofy liberals.

[PlayTheAces]

There are two bills pending in the state legislature regarding ammo taxes. One is AB-992 and one is AB-602.

There's information posted at Calguns.net

[Blackhawk]

Don't think it will happen, but it is Kali.... :rolleyes:

[Standing Wolf]

I'm sure it will happen. The only question is how soon.

I miss the People's Republic of California about 1% as much as a migraine head ache.

[John G]

Wow. So a $10 box of 500 .22lr rounds would be $60? Maybe my math's off, but that seems excessive. :eek:

[CZ 75 BD]

I sure am glad I live in Alabamastan!4:cool:

[BenW]

Wow. So a $10 box of 500 .22lr rounds would be $60?
Worse. Like the $0.05 tax last year, this is per bullet or per component. So for a reloader, you're paying an additional $0.30 per self loaded round versus $0.10 per store bought round.

There cannot be a more classic example of punishing the ones who didn't do anything wrong.

[JoeSF]

Here is the link to information on the bill and a click through to the actual bill.
There is a letter already written in opposition to this bill. If you live in CA Print, Sign and send the letter opposing this bill !

I just sent the first paragraph, fits on one page and they get the point. Oppose


http://www.calwaterfowl.org/Governmentaffairs01c.htm

Assembly Member Mark Ridley-Thomas (D-Los Angeles) has introduced AB 992-legislation that would impose a 10-cent "fee" on every piece of ammunition sold in California for purposes of creating a "Trauma Center Fund". Individual components of each shell, such as primers, could also be taxed 10-cents a piece under this ill-conceived proposal.

[gudel]

makes no difference, i buy them online. they already have high sales tax anyway.

[JoeSF]

AN Internet sales tax is being considered by a group of states with mounting deficits You can be sure CA will want "their" dime.
Shane thanks for the heads up!

[redhead]

It gets worse. The bill calls the .10 per munition a "fee", not a tax. A tax takes a 2/3 majority vote to pass. A fee passes on a simple majority. I FAXxed every committee member Tuesday morning, early, with my strong opposition to the bill. The committee voted on it that day. Fat lot of good my letter did. The committee passed it. We'll see where it goes from here. Bunch of weasels. :fire:

[JoeSF]

we will keep writing Red....

[Greg L]

It starts off at $0.10 so that it can then be compromised down to $0.05 and the politicians can then pat themselves on the back as to how reasonable they are being.

Of course the shooters in CA get screwed. :banghead:

Greg

[Jim March]

I was there. That committee (Assembly Public Safety) is a joke, chaired by a radical liberal from SF name of Mark Leno.

We'll see what Assem. Appropriations has to say.

[John G]

I live in Upstate Ny, so why does this make me so angry? Every new gun law, regardless of state, seems to confirm the ignorance of lawmakers.

[CZ-75]

Redeemable for every one given to a politician? :evil:






(Note: not the high road, but sure sounds good)

[Shane]

It gets worse. The bill calls the .10 per munition a "fee", not a tax. A tax takes a 2/3 majority vote to pass. A fee passes on a simple majority. I FAXxed every committee member Tuesday morning, early, with my strong opposition to the bill. The committee voted on it that day. Fat lot of good my letter did. The committee passed it. We'll see where it goes from here. Bunch of weasels.

We are in deep doo doo then. There is no way it will NOT pass if all it takes is the majority. Are you sure simply wording it as a "fee" prevents it from being considered a tax? If this is so, I see no way that this bill will NOT be passed. Kalifornia liberals far outweigh our conservatives in the Senate and Assembly; so, naturally more than 50% will vote for this bill. This is terrible, and there isn't much we can do except write our senators. The problem is, I write them often and get either no response back or lame lip service that avoids my gripes. I doubt the liberals even care what we have to say.

If the bill passes, I'll buy my ammo out of state if I have to. Paying .10 cents per bullet is ridiculous, and further more it helps the gun nazi's cause out. I'd rather drive a long way and burn gas money than to support this liberal nonsense. IMO, this is nothing more than an attempt to disarm us.

[Jim March]

Virtually all of the gun dealers in the state will die out if this takes hold.

The ranges that are also gun dealers will also mostly die. The ranges that aren't will suffer a loss of profit from ammo sales, esp. 22LR, and will raise range fees as a result.

People who still want to shoot will form "buying clubs", where some guy with a pickup will take other folks orders, they'll split gas bills and stock up in Nevada, Oregon or Arizona.

Another issue: what about Indian land? OK, "Native American" I guess...point is, if they can run CASINOS, can they run untaxed ammo/gun sales outlets? With what degree of regulation? NICS checks only? (Yes, I'm quite serious. They're sovereign nations!)

People will get into reloading en mass, and do "underground, untaxed ammo sales" for their friends. Ammo will be the "new maryjane". We'll see Federal busts for people hoarding more than the allowed 5 cans of powder per Fed rules. Somebody will crash a pickup or SUV with about 10,000 primers and 40 cans of Unique on I80 and blow a giant hole in the friggin' road.

Good GOD what a mess.

Total tax revenues from the gun biz will collapse - the dealers are running such tight margins now that the loss of bulk ammo sales and reloading stuff will kill them off like Zylon-B in an indoor chicken ranch.

The number of gunnies fleeing the state will rise to crazy levels. The loss of that tax base alone will be a financial disaster.

What a mess.

I predict somebody will sue immediately upon passage over this "fee" thing :barf: and with the right judge, maybe get an injunction blocking the law's effects until the court issues are dealt with. That might actually be a best-case scenario, as it would finally stir the hunters to action.

[redhead]

Are you sure simply wording it as a "fee" prevents it from being considered a tax?

It will for now, but will probably have to have a legal challenge to stop it from being considered a "fee". This is a tactic the state legislature uses to get around the 2/3 requirement to raise or levy a tax. To call these legislators "unethical" is an understatement.

[Master Blaster]

If California gets away with this NewJersey will be next, then maryland and so on it goes. Watch out if ******* Clinton gets elected.

Maybe someone could tack on a tax of $10 per condom, and $20 per tube of KY jelly, then the folks in charge out there would be up in Arms for sure.

[Sergeant Bob]

makes no difference, i buy them online. they already have high sales tax anyway.

That's the same kind of logic used by some hunters. "They're not after my shotguns and hunting rifles, just those evil assault weapons, so it doesn't affect me". You don't think they'll come after you too? If they do pass the internet sales tax, they'll get your money too, along with putting alot of internet vendors out of business.

[Russ]

RECALL THE SWINE DAVIS! Sign the recall petition and get that greasy sleasy pig out.

Who said they will buy ammo on line?

NEWSFLASH! There won't be any more mail order ammo in the PRK without this "fee" if this sorry law passes. They will start putting tax stamps on ammo just like booze and cigarettes.

The PRK is living proof why the Democratic Party is a complete failure and does not deserve anyone's vote ever again. Look at that sorry witch Nancy Pelosi. The head of the Party no less. DemocRAT politicians there have nothing between their ears except air or maybe oatmeal.


:fire:

[WonderNine]

When did Chris Rock get elected to the California legislature? :D

[ball3006]

open an ammo depot across the state line in Nev. Unless, of course, Kal will set up roadblocks to search every car for illegal ammo.......chris3

[Pendragon]

They can call it a fee because the money goes to a specific place: "Trauma Centers".

In CA, a "tax" does not have to me earmarked for a specific purpose and requires the 2/3rds.

"Fees" only require a simple majority and have to go to something specific.

This is an out and out attack on us.

Stock up on primers and powder, it's going to be a rough ride.

Today:

1000 primers = ~$18
1LB powder = ~$20
1000 .45 LSWC = ~ $50

Cost to load ~ 1000 rounds of .45 ACP (minus brass): $88

Next Year:

1000 primers = ~$18 + $100 tax
1LB powder = ~$20 *unknown how powder will be taxed*
1000 .45 LSWC = ~ $50 + $100 tax

Cost to load ~ 1000 rounds of .45 ACP (minus brass): $288 + tax on powder which could be $20-$100...

The cost to reload will more than triple.

[Nightfall]

This is absolutely nothing but an attack on law abiding shooters. :fire:

How many violent criminals do you think have reloading equipment back at home and do their own loads? 0. Zip. Nadda. Nobody but the serious shooters reload, and this ‘fee' will mostly cripple them. As for the rest, who's going to be footing the bill for criminal acts? The law abiding citizens. Those who go shooting regularly, who buy boxes of ammo or reloading components. Who won't suffer at all? Criminals. Do you think they constantly go to the range to practice with the firearm they're going to shoot someone with? Of course not. The shooters of the PRK will suffer under heavy fees of hundreds of dollars to foot the bill for crimes they had nothing to do with, and the criminals will probably pay a few bucks a year.

I know this bill isn't designed to hurt crime, but making law abiding citizens pay hundreds of dollars for violence they won't commit is wrong. There is no getting around it, this is punishing law abiding people for things they have nothing to do with, and is simply WRONG.

But then, I've little doubt the politicians in the PRK don't know this, and are ever so happy they can hurt the most avid shooters the most.

:cuss:

[Safety First]

Sounds like they are trying to equate bullets with booze and cigarettes ( you know, the "sin tax") but isn't that typical of lawmakers in Ka,they forgot unlike cigarettes and booze, bullets save lives...can the law makers in Ka really be that far left??:rolleyes:

[Shane]

They can call it a fee because the money goes to a specific place: "Trauma Centers".

In CA, a "tax" does not have to me earmarked for a specific purpose and requires the 2/3rds.

"Fees" only require a simple majority and have to go to something specific.

This is an out and out attack on us.


Its a fore-gone conclusion this will pass the assembly and senate then. In ultra liberal happy California, a majority vote is easy to come by for the liberals.

The question is, WHEN this bill passes, and there is an excellent chance our trashy Communist Governor will sign it, is there any legal action we can take to prevent it from coming into law? Would there be a chance to take this all the way to the Federal Surpreme Court? Because, when this bill becomes a law, its going to put most of the gun dealers out of business, and it will keep new ammo out of all but the wealthies hands IMO.

Not a good prospect for Granola Land.

[hammer4nc]

How about fighting fire with fire? So the lawgivers play cute word games, renaming a tax as a fee, to evade the 2/3 statutory requirement? How many ways are there to supply or obtain ammo without retail sales?

Providing ammo as a "free gift" with the purchase of trading cards?

Creating "sports clubs" that include ammo as a membership perk, which you can pick up at your favorite range?

Giant ammo stores at all Ca border crossings..."stock up now on the way back from Vegas"....

I'm sure there are myriad other ways to monkeywrench this kind of law, if one is creative. Not unlike the devices used to get around retail liquor sales, in many dry counties. Furthermore, how will the tax be verified? Stamps on each box of ammo? Surely, they won't stamp each bullet or component? What happens when the ammo is transferred to different containers? Will the ammo tax police be posted at ranges to verify payment of taxes? Everyone will have their receipt for 200 rounds of ammo, which will mysteriously regenerate like biblical loaves and fishes...

Will there be "pre-ban" and "post-ban" ammo? Special markings or serial numbers on each bullet? "No, officer, I stocked up before the ban went into effect."

Beyond the understandable outrage at the concept of this tax, ramrodded by the anti's in an underhanded fashion, is anyone else struck by how impractical this bill will be to enforce? Just as the high cigarette taxes passed in Canada, where the bootlegged sales swamped legal (taxed) sales, and the idea was abandoned for economic reasons...

Seriously, has anyone thought ahead to the mechanics of enforcement? Seems like the whole concept is going to fail for many of the reasons mentioned above, and may end up being a money loser!

Comments?

[Cal4D4]

Just added 3K bullets from West Coast Bullets (great service, etc) and stocking up on primers, powder and rimfire. This stuff will probably last awhile because the local range will be forced out of business if no one else can afford to shoot. ***!:mad:

[Pendragon]

They are not going to try and enforce it at the border.

For one, they do not have the money and it would be intrusive to the sheeple that keep them in power and might wake some people up if they start probing too much towards ordinary people.

It will positively SLAY retail gun shops which I suspect is the primary target of the legislation.

I do wonder - if they call it a fee, I would suspect that they have less avenues of enforcement with regard to making "ammo runs" or trying to require proof at a range to shoot.

Regardless, this is supposed to be the millstone that drowns most of the remaining gun stores in the state.

I predict: if this passes without serious opposition and repercussions, they will move to much much more severe measures through the remainder of Davis' term. They know a Repub will probably win the next election so they want to make ''progress" while they can.

Some egregious forced safe storage or something confiscatory or maybe "smart guns only" - something really ugly will come next if this makes it to law.

[SIGarmed]

Californians need to get outraged. This socialist Mark ridley thomas and his ultra liberal buddy from west hollywierd(is anyone surprised?) should get the message loud and clear! There is no excuse for attempting a run around the right to self defense.

Thomas wrote in his arguement that he is trying to cause a "nexus" between criminals activity and "bullets" that us the law abiding gunowners use by using the money to pay for trauma centers. Somehow the law abiding should be punished for excercising our human rights. Somehow bullets are magical objects that roam free and hit people were there happen to be gang bangers.

Somehow in the mind of the left taxing bullets for trauma centers creates a genuine "nexus".

I really hope all you California gunowners out there are doing something about it. In fact it is your duty. This won't stop without action. Its about time there is a price to pay for authoring this victim disarmament excuse for legislation.

[Shane]

I wonder how long its going to take for the (extreme) liberal infestation to migrate to and control other states as well. Its only a matter of time before the liberal infestation migrates to surrounding states and tries to impose their extreme socialist agenda on other states. My point is, this liberal infestation MUST be stopped before it spreads. While its just a handful of States currently that are infested with ultra liberal trash, it could get a LOT worst for many states. And if the liberals win the next round of elections (i.e. if they take the Presidency, House, and /or Senate in 2004), it could be very bad at the Federal level too.

The way I see it, every battle the liberals win (every state they control for example) gets them closer to winning the war and achieving their goals--SOCIALISM and IMO ulitimately the U.S. people under heavy U.N. law and control.

[Shalako]

This is the Liberal Way.

The healthy and productive get to carry the weight for all the irresponsible, lazy, victimized, criminals, and losers.

We carry the weight of the welfare state with our hard work.
We carry the weight of the criminal element by funding trauma centers.

Sounds about right in step to me. :rolleyes:

[Frohickey]

How about this instead?

Trauma centers and hospitals that treat gunshot victims charge the gunshot victims or their insurance company.
The gunshot victims or their insurance company sues the criminals (when they are caught), or garnishes the pay of the criminals in prison to pay for the health care costs.

(You will have some blissninnies talk about how unfair it is to charge the innocent criminals in prison for the actions of the guilty criminals out in the streets!)

:cuss: :fire: :cuss:

[John Galt]

Frohikey,

This never had anything to do with the "cost of gun crime". Therefore, arguing on their grounds is silly.

Luckilly, I'm selling some of my big ticket toys and will be able to buy another 20,000 rounds before this passes.

[Black_Talon]

Luckilly, I'm selling some of my big ticket toys and will be able to buy another 20,000 rounds before this passes.

That's exactly what I've been doing over the last few weeks. I've already socked away enough ammo to keep me going for the next 5+ years. Heck, even if they don't pass this tax bill I'll be ahead of the game anyway. Who ever heard of prices going down?

[Shane]

This is the Liberal Way.

The healthy and productive get to carry the weight for all the irresponsible, lazy, victimized, criminals, and losers.

We carry the weight of the welfare state with our hard work.
We carry the weight of the criminal element by funding trauma centers.

Sounds about right in step to me.

Which is exactly why the liberal way is the wrong way. ;)

[Shalako]

If its not Right, its Wrong! ;)

[Shane]

^Excellent point! :D

[foghornl]

Now accepting applications for "State Line Munitions" franchises in Arizona, Oregon, and Nevada......

Seriously, though, I hope you good guys in California can find a way to beat this monster down, before it comes to visit all of us.

LIE-berals...Never met a tax, fee, or surcharge they didn't like, and couldn't hike.