P22 European-only accessories...


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nvrquit
January 2, 2003, 10:53 PM
Specifically, holsters.

What I'm trying to find out, does anyone have a line on whether the holsters listed on the Walther(Germany) home site can be obtained by any other means. I ask this as neither S&W/WaltherUSA or Earl's Repair list the P22 specific holsters that are listed on the German Walther web site.

Anyone have any(reasonable/possible) suggestions?

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Schuey2002
January 4, 2003, 03:42 AM
PM sent...:D

Kentucky Rifle
January 4, 2003, 02:56 PM
Ron Graham built me a perfect fitting belt holster. It's so well balanced that I don't even have to wear a gunbelt.

KR

psywar
January 27, 2003, 11:34 PM
I'd love some information about this as well.

Thx,
jim

nvrquit
January 28, 2003, 01:15 AM
Unfortunately, no info at present on the "euro only" access. availability for the P22.

My P22 is going back to S&W for diagnosis(on their FedX overnite cost), as it has developed the habit of FTF with some types of ammo. Not unknown. It's only occurring with the non _a suffixed mags, but S&W wants the complete set-up, so off it goes.

I'll follow-up on the euro access. when the pistol is returned.

David S
January 28, 2003, 01:43 AM
sent mine off a few weeks ago.....................they cant fix it...........sending me a new one.................in 3 WEEKS!! cause they are out

nvrquit
February 11, 2003, 08:50 PM
As stated, my P22 went back to S&W for service. Fed-X on their expense, tracking record shows S&W received the pistol on 1-31/03 at 09:49.

nvrquit
February 21, 2003, 07:56 PM
Tonight when I arrived home, there was a message on the answering machine from a Frank Bran**** of Walther/S&W. It seems that they wish to replace my P22 with a new P22. The caller indicated they wished me to call, providing an 800 number and his extension. Caller also indicated that they will have to ship the new P22 to an FFL holder, as by his reasoning/knowledge, they can not ship the NEW P22 to me but can only do so to an FFL holder, owing to the different serial #'s of related pistols.


Hmmm, seems to me that when Taurus replaced the PT940 that had a cracked frame with a new PT940, the serial #'s were not matching in that situation either. However, in that occurence, Taurus shipped thee replacement PT940 directly to my door via FedX overnite express delivery. Has this situation changed in the last 18 months and can no longer be handled as Taurus had, or did Taurus do a no-no in shipping replacement directly to me?

I ask this as, should I do as Walther/S&W request and go through one of the local shop FFL holders I deal with, they will process the paperwork(NICS, PA state, etc.) and then I will be out the fees for the involved work. Seems to me that I really shouldn't have to pay an additional $30 to $55 for a replacement of a pistol that didn't function correctly to begin with, when I paid that fee when I purchased the ill-functioning P22 the first time.

Can anyone that has had the P22 old-to-new experience let me know how it was handled in their situation? Did you have to do the FFL waltz also?

10-Ring
February 21, 2003, 08:43 PM
Don't know about your state, but in CA, you registered under one gun & ser # and now it is a diff't gun & ser #. I know for a fact in CA you would have to re-register. Try calling S&W/Walther and bring this up w/ them, maybe they'll pay for the new registration too.

nvrquit
February 24, 2003, 05:33 PM
.... sometime in the future... whenever the new shipment arrives from Germany... whenever that might be... oh, BTW, S&W/Walther didn't know/couldn't provide an approximate date on when that might be.... maybe two weeks... uh, maybe.

Well, as long as I get back the short barrel and extra finger rest mag that was sent in with the pistol as originally purchased 5" barreled and two original mags. The CS contact didn't sound all that sure-footed on the matter. I was not impressed with conversational skills. Perhaps he has been verbally beaten about on this issue by other P22 owners in the recent past. Time will tell.

nvrquit
March 11, 2003, 03:03 AM
Well, on 3-7/03, I picked up the replacement for my original P22 that had been experiencing mostly FTF with a few FTE problems. It's supposed to be a new pistol, however here's what I received.

Slide on the new pistol isn't the nice satin black of the origianl, but is a somewhat brown/black with a slight redish tone to it and is of a matte texture. Additionally, while the original slide had the black completely smooth finish existing on all interior surfaces of the slide, with no machining marks of any type, the slide from the replacement pistol has raw alloy exposed on the raceways on the rear interior of the slide. In these exposed areas, the machine marks are clearly visible from the milling process. The overall appearance of the slide is as if the slide was pulled from the production line before the final finishing process was completed, as the replacement as nowhere near as pleasing an appearance as the original. Also, there's a nice nice in the right rear edge of the slide that exposes the nice silver/white alloy. The barrel nut is nicely scratched too, along approximately 1/5th the circumference of the face.

Maybe it's me, but when I send back a pistol that was purchased NIB and was not scratched or damaged in any way, I kinda of expect the NEW replacement to at least look like something that didn't come out of the test/repair shop. It's almost like a "second" was pulled out of the line for the "replacement" pistols.

Well, before a trip to the range to test the "replacement", I'll call S&W and let them know of my findings. Truthfully, after talking to the rep. that notified me of repacement of the original, I don't really expect them to do anything, but I'll call anyway.

Have any other P22 owners that have had their pistols replaced via S&W experienced anything like this?


Addendum: BTW, the replacement was shipped with two non -A suffix mags, just like the original. Interesting thing is, the original pistol functioned fine with the -A mag I ordered seperately. Explained same to S&W, but they thought I should have a "new" pistol that has an "industrial" finish with origianl non -A sufix mags. I don't get a good feeling about this!

nvrquit
March 13, 2003, 04:11 PM
... on the replacement P22 from S&W/Walther.

Today, I went to the range to test out the replacement P22 that S&W/Walther sent to replace my origianl P22.

Here's the ammo type, types of failures, round counts on each ammo type and totals overall:

Federal American Eagle, AE5022 High Vel. Soild 40gr.
60 rounds tested, 11 FTF, 7 Stove-pipe jams
with all mags tested
Federal American Eagle, AE22 High Vel. Hollow Point 38gr.
50 rounds tested, 9 FTF, 3 Stove-pipe jams
with all mags tested
Winchester T22 XT22LR Std. Vel. Solid 40gr.
70 rounds tested, 8 FTF, with all mags tested
Winchester Power Point, X22LRPP High Vel. Hollow Pnt. 40gr.
60 rounds tested, NO FAILURES with all mags tested
PMC Moderator, 22SS Std. Vel. Hollow Point 38gr.
30 rounds tested, 7 FTF, 30 FTE, 13 straight-line jams
with all mags tested
Remington Subsonic, SUB22HP Std. Vel. Hollow Point 38gr.
60 rounds tested, 9FTF, 2 Stove-pipe jams, 3 slide lock failures
with all mags tested
Remington Golden Bullet, 1622 High Vel. Hollow Point 38gr.
50 rounds tested, 1 FTF, 1 partial case head seperation
with all mags tested
Remington Viper, 1922 Hyper Vel. Solid
50 rounds tested, 12 FTE, with all mags tested
CCI Stingers, 0050 Hyper Vel. Hollow Point
50 rounds tested, NO FAILURES with all mags tested


Total FTF, 45; Total FTE, 42; Total jams all types, 25; Total slide lock failures, 3; Total of all failure types, 115.

Total of all ammunition types fired: Standard Velocity, 160 rounds; High Velocity, 220 rounds; Hyper Velocity 100 rounds. Total number of rounds fired of all types combined, 480. There was no accuracy tracked during this range session, as this session was for function testing only.

Opinions of these results are requested. Thanks for any feedback!

Triad
March 14, 2003, 02:58 PM
Opinions of these results are requested.
Since you asked... I'd send it back. The finish problems and lack of reliability you described are unacceptable.

Hoploholic
March 14, 2003, 03:48 PM
Until you try some -A mags, there is really no way of telling whether you pistol is a pig or the mags are inducing the failures. The original mags are pure crap. They are out of spec and if you get one that functions it a miracle. They did not send you -A mags because there are none to be had. If your replacement P22 had been new, it would have had the -A mags with it. Their absence is a dead giveaway that your pistol has been in country for some time.

nvrquit
July 15, 2003, 01:51 PM
To all following this post:

On the -A mag reliability question(versus the original non -A mags), part of the previously posted testing was performed using two non -A mags and one -A mag. All experienced FTF issues, though the frequency with the -A mag was much less than that experienced with the non -A mags. Further testing with a wider selection of ammunition was performed, following a field strip and clean(with the requiste lubrication of appropriate areas). A grand total of the retest was 1020 rounds from 5 different manufacturers, with a total of 17 differing types of ammunition. Twenty rounds of each type/manufacturer of ammunition was used with each magazine(three mags in total). Only 7 ammo types from three manufacturers was found to be error/problem free. Federal ammo(three different types) exhibited the highest number of errors/problems. One note; the barrel nut required tightening after approximately 30 to 40 rounds of ammo was fired. This condition was experienced for the duration of the retest.

Following this restest, I intended to run the same test using the 5" target barrel. A field strip was performed and then the barrel nut was removed from the 3.4" barrel. Unfortunately, I found the barrel sleeve for the 3.4" barrel to be very difficult to remove(it should slide out with very little effort once the barrel nut is removed). I found the reason for this; it would appear that when the pistol was assembled the barrel sleeve was not properly aligned and the barrel nut tightened down. This caused the aligning "web"(Walther term as used in the manual) to be crushed by the steel barrel sleeve. The "web" is integral with the receiver bridge which is integral with the right side plate. As might be expected, I was not pleased to find this, as this now makes the pistol unable to be reassembled in a safe condition. I might add that the pistol was received from S&W as a 3.4" barreled version, completely assembled.

All of this info was forwarded to S&W/Walther CS via email on 07-13/03. It was followed up with an email today, with no response having yet been received. Updates to this post will follow.

nvrquit
July 17, 2003, 10:05 PM
Following yet another unanswered email regarding my P22, today I called the telephone number listed on the Walther USA web site. I spoke directly with a rep and a FedX Overnite is being issued for return of the pistol, for replacement with a new P22.

The rep was very personable. No hassles or any recriminatory statements of any type. I was informed that the individual that processes the email sent to the address listed on the Walther USA site is on vacation this week(just my luck) and they only have soemone filling in for her a few hours each day.

Updates to follow.

fnforme
July 18, 2003, 12:06 PM
This place has quite a few accessories and holsters for the P22: http://www.kaehny.de/export/export.htm

nvrquit
July 18, 2003, 01:47 PM
fnforme,

Thanks for the lead on the site.

On the German Walther web site(factory site), the P22 has listed four holster that I haven't found listed on either the S&W/Walther or Earl's Repair web sites. I'm a little partial to the poly belt slide and the wife liked the look of the (leather?) pancake. I also like the looks of the ABS case.

BHPshooter
July 18, 2003, 02:07 PM
I'm very interested to see how this turns out (again). Please keep us posted.

Good luck.
Wes

pale horse
July 18, 2003, 05:23 PM
For the uber cool pistol go here http://www.kaehny.de/export/p22c.htm.

nvrquit
July 23, 2003, 09:46 PM
Today FedX picked up the first replacement P22 and it is now on its way to S&W/Walther. I'll update on when the second replacement P22 arrives and I get a chance to test it.

nvrquit
July 28, 2003, 10:43 PM
FedX tracking indicates the damaged P22 was delivered on 07-24/03@08:51.

The individual responsible for follow-up to email inquiries/reports to Walther America emailed me about 3 1/2 hrs. later, asking that I send the P22 in question in for evaluation/repair. This individual had been on vacation when I arranged for return of the P22 in question.

From that email, I surmised that inter-departmental communication at Walther America may not be "up-to-date". I emailed the particualrs to the pertinent individual and received a reply the following day, indicating the P22 should be in cust. ser. that day.

Updates will be posted.

nvrquit
August 8, 2003, 01:34 PM
My second Walther P22(this one being a warranty replacement for my original) has been at S&W/Walther for two weeks and no communication of any type has been received from said company.

Updates will be posted.

nvrquit
August 21, 2003, 12:30 AM
The second P22, a warranty replacement for my original P22, has now been back at S&W/Walther for four weeks. No communication has been received from S&W/Walther since a reply to my follow-up inquiry/notification, as posted previously.

I suppose a telephone call will be required(using the toll free number, of course). Updates will be posted.

Daedalus
August 21, 2003, 07:35 PM
Please continue to keep us appraised about what is going on with your p22. I have beeen interested in buying one, and if this month long ordeal you are going through doesnt resolve swiftly in your favor I do not think I will be getting one!

Roz
August 21, 2003, 11:46 PM
Hey before you buy from Kaehny.de, check out my experience in the Transaction forum.

nvrquit
August 22, 2003, 12:12 AM
As per my most recent previous post, today I called S&W/Walther CS.

The hold wasn't very long and I spoke with a personable lady that attempte to track down the status of my returned replacement P22. It appears this particular P22 is being handled by an individual that is currently on vacation(?!?) and she was inable to obtain any curretn status information. Her recommendation was to call again on Monday(08-25/2003).

Now, when reading the preceding, remember that this pistol, a replacement for my origianl P22, has been at S&W/Walther America now for some 4 actual weeks. While the CS personnel at S&W/Walther have been considerably nicer and more professional in presentation than some other companies I've dealt with, on a whole, it does seem that the majors in firearms production(Ruger, Beretta, etc.) really don't seem to have adequate internal communication up to a "professional" level.

On well, updates to follow!

nvrquit
August 25, 2003, 08:28 PM
Today a follow-up call was placed for the individual gentleman responsible for handling my P22's review/replacement. Since this was his first day back from vacation, knowing myself how that usually works, I waited until 13:30 to place the call.

Upon being connected with him, after identifying myself and the nature for my call, he indicated the P22 was still in the "repair" shop(Note: the pistol was to be replaced, not repaired). I was asked for my telephone number and informed I would be called back with disposition.

As of close today, I had not received a call from said individual. These events are not impressing me with a sense of confidence in the Walther America customer service. I will allow a day before calling WA/CS again to try and find out what the status may be.

Update to follow.

blue86buick
August 25, 2003, 11:56 PM
Damn...what an ordeal. I've been lusting for a P22 for a while, and I sure as heck hope I get a good one....and I PRAY i never have to send it in for work. :uhoh:

nvrquit
August 26, 2003, 10:28 PM
Today at 17:23, I received a call from the Walther America CS rep that is handling the review/replacement of my Walther P22(remember, the current P22 in question was a replacement for my origianl P22; read previous posts).

The explanation was that he, prior to vacationing last week(8-18 to 8-22), had been attempting to obtain a replacement right side plate(reference the Walther P22 "Operating Instructions" manual) from Walther, Germany. Said right side plate is also the component on which the pistol's serial # resides. It was stated that to date, Walther had not been very forthcoming with any information, indicating as to whether said side plate would be available or shipped. The following discussion between myself and the S&W/WA CS individual was professionally courteous and it was agreed that a new P22 would be shipped as a replacement. The FFL holder information was confirmed(as said information was on hand at WA CS from the previous replacement). Additionally, the WA CS rep indicated, that should I be charged any transfer, tax, NICS fees(which I will), that I should make copies of said charges and mail said copies to WA CS addressed to him and I would be compensated for those costs.

Summary:
Now, I have waited four weeks(three working weeks, plus one "vacation" week) to agree to a condition that was, to my recollection(and I take notes while talking with any CS rep from any company), previously discussed and arrived at(replacement of pistol, not repair) before the P22(replacement #1) was returned to WA. Curious as to the delay and reasoning, I will hold any judgement and follow-up correspondence to superior personnel, until I have had a chance to test the second replacement P22.

Update to follow.

DougCxx
September 27, 2003, 07:19 AM
Bummer, it looks like a nifty pistol, and isn't very expensive.....
-
Can somebody explain what the magazine issue here is? The "-A" prefix magazines? What is that? From what I have gathered it had one type inculded when it was new, but they substituted another when it was returned for service?
~

nvrquit
September 29, 2003, 10:06 PM
Well, after only 10 weeks and two days, I recveived a call from the local FFL holder that received the #2 replacement Walther P22.

As a refresher, read the previous posts on this thread for some details leading up to this happy day. Now, to the particulars!

The #2 replacement has been found to a definite step up from replacement #1(replacement P22's are hereafter referred to as R1 and R2 respectively, to reference replacement P22's #1 & #2). The slide on R2 is the same shade of satin black as was my original P22(in contrast to R1, refer to previous posts). Two suffix -A mags were received with R2, instead of the non -A suffixed mags, as were received with R1. Hopefully, this positive sign may signal the end to the travails I've experienced since the purchase of the original P22. Range time re-running the ammo tests will tell(using both the 3.4" and 5" barrels, with all mags... lots of ammo!). All other checks upon field stripping of R2 found no irregularities of any type.


For those not familiar with the P22's mag issues, in short the original mags issued with P22's were found to be the root cause of feeding problems experienced by early P22's. Subsequent redesigned replacement mags had the same part number as the original mags, save with the addition of a -A added to the part number. There are several other posts regarding this particular topic and for this, I suggest the use of the board's Search function.

Updates on ammo fuction/reliability testing will be posted.

RecoilRob
September 30, 2003, 11:10 PM
I did a search on the mags but didn't find a very detailed explanation on the changes that were made so I will provide one here.

My 5in. P-22 came with the -A mags and ran perfectly with all kinds of ammo except the PMC Target standard velocity. After a few hundred rounds it would function about 90% with the SV stuff but you could tell it was just barely strong enough to cycle.

Ordered a couple extra mags from Earl's and was dismayed to find that they were non-suffix models. Decided to try them and, sure enough, had FTF problems like everyone said they had. Looking at them, compared to the -A's showed the major difference was the lack of a slot, .850X.100 placed about 1.2in. down at the back of each side. This slot allows the rims to displace sideways rather than stack which allows the bullet nose to stay up. The top round in the early mags would not hold its' nose up and so would jam into the feed ramp.

Another thing I noticed was a lot more spring tension in the old design mag. MUCH harder to load. Pulled them apart and compared the springs with the updated mag and found them to be the same wire size and pitch but about 3in. longer!

I proceeded to trim the springs to equal the -A's and cut matching slots into the sides with my trusty Dremel. (Yes, I am one of those KTOG guys. We don't leave home without one!) After modification, the non-suffix mags work just like the -A's.

So, if you find yourself with a P-22 that won't run right with the non-suffix mags but is otherwise OK, you might try modifying the mags before sending the package back to SW/Walther and going through all the headaches. Rob

nvrquit
October 1, 2003, 12:45 AM
RecoilRob,

Very nice post on the P22 mag feed issue. The post covers the particulars nicely!

I do seem to remember there being a post regarding this in similar detail(without the Dremel/mag spring mods), however it may have been on a different forum.

Updates on function testing may be a little while, but it will be posted.

nvrquit
August 20, 2004, 04:16 PM
.... with the long overdue ammunition testing of the 2nd replacement(or as in 3rd Walther P22) that was received from S&W/Walther USA on 09-29/03 of last year.

I know this seems like quite a delay(and it is), but as we were in the process of having a new house built, me working for myself(computer systems consulting), two hospital stays for the MIL(we were/are the main contact/support for the in-laws for these situations) and all the other little things that seemed to pile-on during this time frame.... well, the ammo test just wasn't very high on the priority tree during that time. In any event, sorry for the delay.


Now then, here's the ammo test .

Total different manufacturers: 5
Total ammo types across manufacturers lines: 17
Total rounds fired: 1020
Failures to feed: 38
Failures to Extract: 41
Failures to Eject: 4
Jams of any/all Types: 11
Failures to Fire(on first strike): 13

Ammo used:
Winchester Power Point X22LRPP
Winchester T22 Target XT22LR
Winchester SuperX Hollow Point X22LRH
Winchester Wildcat WW22LR
Remington Subsonic Hollow Point SUB22HP
Remington High Vel. Hollow Point 1622
Remington Yellow Jaccket 1722
Remington Viper 1922
Federal American Eagle AE5022
Federal American Eagle AE22
Federal High Vel. Hollow Point 712
Aguila Super Maximum Hollow Point
Aguila Super Maximum Solid
CCI Stinger 0050
CCI MiniMag 0030
CCI MiniMag 0031

60 rounds of each ammo type were fired, 20 rounds through each magazine. The three magazines were two 265 93 44-A and one 265 93 36-A, which are the finger rest and flat bottom magazines, respectively.

The ammo types that experienced no failures or jams are:
All winchester ammunition tested
All Aguila ammunition tested
Remington High Velocity Hollow Point 1622
CCI MiniMag 0030 and 0031

The most troublesome/failure experienced ammunition:
Remington Yellow Jacket 1722 - 20 Failures to Extract, no other types
Remington Viper 1922 - 24; 16 Failures to Extract, 4 Failures to Eject, 4 Failures to Fire(on first strike)
Federal American Eagle AE5022 - 34; 12 Failures to Feed, 12 Failures to Extract, 2 Failures to Eject, 10 Jams of varying types

All magazines experienced failures/jams with the ammo that was not 100% reliable, so it would appear that the f/j's were all of the ammo related variety and not related directly to the magazine in use. That's a good thing.

The barrel used was the short 3.4" barerel, with the barrel nut being prepped before testing, with the use of Loctite #242(blue non-wicking). No barrel nut loosening was experienced either during the test progress or at the end of the testing. No attempt at accuracy testing was performed during this test.

Mechanically, the pistol, with ammo it likes, performed well. However, the safety seems to be a bit on the loose side, with the safety actually dropping to the safe position when the slide was dropped on the first round of anew mag. This occurred 7 different times. Also, some ammo types have a nasty habit of being ejected directly into the shooter's face or the forward portion of the head above the forehead.

A post-test review of mechanical condition will be posted following the post-test cleaning. Stay tuned to this Bat-Channel :D

pauli
August 20, 2004, 04:30 PM
/me checks the ammo waiting for when he finally gets to shoot his darn p22...

minimag 0031, remington bulk pack 1622ab. looks fine to me.

neat stuff, i love reading proper test results.

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