[Hawken50]

yes??? no??? i'm trying to get the wife to shoot handguns. but she is downright terrified of recoil. (she will only shoot 22 rifles. she shot a 20ga once and swears she will never again) i'm going to start off with the .22 da revolver, but then where to go from there. the only other handguns i have are a semi auto 9mm and a 44mag. to keep her with the revolver manual of arms, for now, i'm thinking super-ultra-mega-reduced recoil 44special rounds. i'm assuming the lighter the bullet the less recoil. am i right? should i pick up some 180bullets or stick to 240? and can 44special be loaded down to be lighter recoiling than a 9? thanks for your help.

[xjmox14x]

Well, yes and no.:) For most practical reasons, when equating recoil you can just use a momentum equation. MV=MV. MV in one direction will be equal to MV in the other direction (All actions have an equal and opposite reaction). M = Mass , V = Velocity. If a bullet weighs less, but has a much higher muzzle velocity then the recoil will be greater. The recoil will also be greater is the muzzle velocity is less, but the bullet weighs much more. A 9mm should be fine for self defense for a woman. It certainly has managable recoil. If you're not sure though, just use the equation MV = a # , and whatever bullet has the lower number, you can try that. Of course, you can't go by this without experimenting as well! ;)

[NVMM]

180gr Laser-Cast with 3.5grs Clays = real light recoil.

115gr Meister with 4.4grs Universal Clays= even lighter recoil.

Bullet and powder charge have an effect on recoil.
A heavy bullet (147gr) in your 9mm and a light charge (something that works your slide) of fast burning powder will have a rather soft recoil.
Recoil is subjective, what feels good to you may cause pain to your wife.
Your right to start with the 22. from there I would go with the 9mm.
Oh yeah, good hearing protection goes a long way.
Keep trying, it's a lot of fun shooting with your partner.

[CodeSlinger]

Oh yeah, good hearing protection goes a long way.


+1

Not only is recoil subjective, it's also surprisingly psychological. A lot of people, whether they realize it or not, are more intolerant of the noise than the actual recoil. If you aren't already, you mught try taking her to an outdoor range. That way the sound isn't being reflected back at you off a ceiling, walls, lane partitions, etc...it just dissipates.

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Recoil is a physical force that can be objectively measured. It is not subjective, though how each individual feels the recoil of course is.

Everything else being equal, you will get less recoil force, and more kinetic energy, with lighter bullers.

[Hawken50]

thanks for the input guys. i also wanted to go with the 44spc loads because i don't handload for 9mm. so i guess a better question would be can a 44spc be loaded down to have a lighter recoil than a 9mm factory load?
If you're not sure though, just use the equation MV = a # , and whatever bullet has the lower number, you can try that.
i will do some research and try to awnser my own question. thanks

[30Cal]

thanks for the input guys. i also wanted to go with the 44spc loads because i don't handload for 9mm. so i guess a better question would be can a 44spc be loaded down to have a lighter recoil than a 9mm factory load?

i will do some research and try to awnser my own question. thanks

I think so. My 44spl plinking loads seem to be a lot lighter than 9mm ball. Part of that may be that my N-frame S&W is a bit heavier than the typical 9mm. I shoot a 200gr SWC bullet with a light dose of Bullseye and they are very comfortable to shoot.

Ty

[Steve C]

The second part of the recoil equation is the weight of the gun. A heavy pistol will recoil less than a lighter weight gun. For light loads look at the Cowboy action loadshttp://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=cowboy&step=2&bulletID=3&cartridgeID=1003&caliber=%2E44&cartridgedescr=Spec%2E&bulletdescr=240%20SWC. The .44 spl start loads are as slow as 613 fps from a 5.5" barrel. These should be very comfortable for even the most recoil shy to shoot.

[SASS#23149]

The weighty and fit of the gun both figure into 'felt recoil'. Lighter bullets always seem to recoil less in my sixguns.
Make sure she has good,sound reducing ear protection.plugs and muffs are not a bad idea.sometimes it's the sound that is making new shooters jump,not the actual recoil.
Her stance and a good firm two handed grip will help a lot as well.
good luck! Nothing better than haviing the 'little lady' out shooting with you.
or so I"ve heard.:banghead:

[deadin]

[QUOTE=SASS#23149]Nothing better than haviing the 'little lady' out shooting with you.QUOTE]

Unfortunately a lot of the time the "little lady" will "outshoot" you while out shooting with you.:evil:

Dean

[wrangler5]

Perception of recoil can certainly be influenced by environmental factors. Shoot a hot revolver load at an indoor range with extended dividers between each shooting point and you can get your hair moving with each shot, but the same load and gun outdoors with no roof will "feel" quite different even though the energy hitting your wrist and arm is the same..

If you have a 9mm automatic you might consider loading for it. I just finished an experiment where I looked for the lowest power load that would still cycle my 9mm Makarov. The starting load (for my lead - i.e. cheap - bullet) in the Accurate book was 3.6 grains of #2 which gave 1045 fps in my gun. But I found that I could go as low as 2.3g (660 fps) and still have completely reliable functioning, even with the extra heavy recoil spring I use. Shooting a load that light feels only slightly more powerful than a 22 revolver. Accuracy at 50 yards remained excellent.

I'll bet you could do the same thing with your 9mm. You might even be able to get a lighter recoil spring and lower the load even further while still maintaining reliability.

The only downside to the really light loads is that the pressure is so low that the case doesn't seal tightly against the chamber wall, so there's more smoke residue buildup in the action than there is with full power loads, and cleanup takes a bit longer. But if that's what it took to get your wife comfortable with a larger gun it might be well worth the investment of time and equipment.

[44and45]

I once made up a batch of 145 grain lead bullets in .45 caliber. Loaded them in my old 2nd model S&W, see picture of target for load detail.

Got a nice cluster group at 15 yards but shot about 7 inches low from point of aim...after I found out what the POA was.

Recoil was nothing to worry about.

So, ultra lite bullets will most likely shoot low from POA, unless you cut your front sight down to compensate for it...that's something I won't do...just shoot heavier bullets to make POA the point of impact.

Jim

[Father Knows Best]

I once made up a batch of 145 grain lead bullets in .45 caliber.

145 grains? Those aren't bullets. They're called "washers." :neener:

[44and45]

Actually, they are about the size of a half inch nut, and being hollow base it makes them that long.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P6020007650Xrtp145gr.jpg (http://photobucket.com)

They shoot pretty good in the old smoke pole, the .455 S&W converted to .45 Colt.

Jim :D

[jeepmor]

I loaded some 'target' loads for my PT145 45ACP from the speer manual. I won't quote specs from memory here, please refer to manual for numbers. If you have a short barreled auto, I'd use the high end of the load specs. I found that my PT145, loaded roughly in the mid range, barely cycled my action (but did) and did not recoil much at all in contrast to full spec loads. It was less than my wife's 9mm in the same small format of the Mil Pro with factory UMC ball ammo.

It was quite a bit more pleasant for my wife and her friend to shoot. Me, I prefer the loads up at the normal range myself. And the short barrel of my gun equates to a stiffer spring, so cycling proved to be a problem in 1 of 150 target rounds made. The brass was barely making it out of the action.

I think the recoil might be a bit higher for the 185 gn loads vs the 230 gn loads due to there being extra room for more powder. It adds about 2 grains in the case of my 45.

Hope this helps,

jeepmor

Or, you could do the energy approach to approximate recoil. The energy of the bullet KE=(1/2xMxV^2). Therefore, if you figure out the mass of your slide or pistol, you can compare it plug it into the MVpistol=MVbullet. Therfore, Vpistol (recoil) = MVbullet/Mpistol. As long as you use the same units on either side, you will have some representation of the recoil of your firearm on paper and can work accordingly. Of course, this will mean nothing if your action won't cycle or it's still too much for your wife.