[Manedwolf]

Well, hm. Here we go, I guess, if this is true. And this is the IAEA saying this, not any hawkish groups, so...

-------------------------

Agency: Iran papers are for an atomic bomb

GEORGE JAHN
Associated Press

VIENNA, Austria - A document obtained by Iran on the nuclear black market serves no other purpose than to make an atomic bomb, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Tuesday.

The finding was made in a report prepared for presentation to the 35-nation IAEA board when it meets, starting Thursday, on whether to refer Iran to the U.N. Security Council, which has the power to impose economic and political sanctions on Iran.

The report was made available in full to The Associated Press.

First mention of the documents was made late last year in a longer IAEA report. At that time, the agency said only that the papers showed how to cast "enriched, natural and depleted uranium metal into hemispherical forms."

The agency refused to make a judgment on what possible uses such casts would have. But diplomats familiar with the probe into Iran's nuclear program said then that the papers apparently were instructions on how to mold highly enriched grade uranium into the core of warheads.

In the brief report obtained Tuesday, however, the agency said bluntly that the 15-page document showing how to cast fissile uranium into metal was "related to the fabrication of nuclear weapon components."

Asked about the finding, a senior diplomat close to the IAEA declined to elaborate but emphasized that the documents had no other use.

The report said the document was under agency seal, meaning that IAEA experts were able in theory to re-examine it, but "Iran has declined a request to provide the agency with a copy."

Diplomats familiar with the IAEA investigation of Iran said earlier Tuesday that part of the document recently was given to the agency in an effort to deflect building international momentum to report Iran to the Security Council. But the report did not mention Tehran handing over any papers.

The document was given to Iran by members of the nuclear black market network, the IAEA said. Iran has claimed it did not ask for the document but was given it anyway as part of other black market purchases.

The same network provided Libya with drawings of a crude nuclear bomb which that country handed over to the IAEA as part of its 2003 decision to scrap its atomic weapons program.
-----------------------------------------

[Standing Wolf]

Why, how very surprising!

[mussi]

for how long have the construction principles of nukes been public knowledge? Anybody with a little bit of brains can build a gun-type nuke, and most people probably a "Fat Man" nuke as well.

[GoRon]

for how long have the construction principles of nukes been public knowledge? Anybody with a little bit of brains can build a gun-type nuke, and most people probably a "Fat Man" nuke as well.

If it was that easy every third world toilet would have one.

[rero360]

I think the building of the nuke is the easy part, its getting ahold of the enriched uranium that is the difficult part, most of the time anyways.

[Gifted]

Big catch is the materials and specifications. The theory is so simple as to be absurd, but applying it is a problem.

I don't know about the tolerances needed on those spheres, but it's gotta be pretty close(relatively speaking. I work down to .0001" every day, so less than that is hairy.). Then critical mass depends on density, so you can't just pour it, you have to pour just enough. A bunch of stuff with actually making them, and any metalurgist and machinist could figure it out. I don't think I'd trust someone else's numbers anyway. The bomb could fizzle, or kind of go off when the metal cools.

The other part is getting the metals. Natural uranium has less than one percent U235, and getting that out is a problem. Easier to do plutonium, but that needs a reactor, and that's a whole 'nother ballgame.

Mostly, you need the technical skills. And they are expensive, regulated, and rare.

[denfoote]

Time to hire the George Bush Nuclear Paving and Parking Lot Company!!

You got the football, time to run with it, Mr President!!

I think 10 MT/ sq. in. nuclear carpet bombing should do the job quite nicely!!

[CAnnoneer]

Well, well, let's see.

Didn't GWB invade Iraq because Saddam was secretly trying to get nukes and possibly give them to the terrorists?

These crazy Iranians obviously are trying to get nukes and would likely give them to terrorists to "wipe Israel off the map".

Hmmmm...

[Biker]

Will we fall for the same old song and dance twice?
Sadly, I think that we might.
If desperation is a place without hope, I just saw hope in my rear view mirror.
Biker

[Third_Rail]

Oooh, an amazing tech innovation for molding uranium?


I have papers on that too.


From 1950.

[Lucky]

"The document was given to Iran by members of the nuclear black market network, the IAEA said. Iran has claimed it did not ask for the document but was given it anyway as part of other black market purchases."

Love it:) Probably true, too. Lol what a world.

[Optical Serenity]

Biker, do you believe that we should just sit back and retreat all our military powers within our borders?

I agree with Bush, we do this and they will simply just come for us on our own borders.

[Biker]

Biker, do you believe that we should just sit back and retreat all our military powers within our borders?

I agree with Bush, we do this and they will simply just come for us on our own borders.
I don't believe that option is a viable one for us at this point, especially after invading Iraq. However, I don't see the wisdom in starting another unnecessary war. Iran *will* obtain nukes, if they haven't already. It's inevitable. Only the method of procuring them is in question.
And no, I don't have a solution to the mess that Bush has gotten us into.
JMO...
Biker

[middy]

Well, well, let's see.

Didn't GWB invade Iraq because Saddam was secretly trying to get nukes and possibly give them to the terrorists?

These crazy Iranians obviously are trying to get nukes and would likely give them to terrorists to "wipe Israel off the map".

Hmmmm...
Invading Iran is a much harder propostion due to topography.

That's why we need a staging area in Iraq... :p

[dolanp]

When this whole thing started I brushed off the analogies to Vietnam, but the longer this draws out and the more Bush apparently wants to do, the more real those analogies are getting. How long can our military take being practically permanently stationed over there? Sheesh we have two whole countries to worry about already.

[Sindawe]

Yes, and in *MY* library I have all the technical documents needed to brew up some batches of anthrax, ergot molds and the H5N1 virus (aka Bird Flu). I could even cobble together the bioreactors and some rudimentary proccessing equipment needed to isolate the first two for large scale production.

QUICK! CALL BUSH!!

[antsi]

And no, I don't have a solution to the mess that Bush has gotten us into.

Biker

Just out of curiousity, what is your solution for the mess that Bush inherited vis-a-vis Iraq?

Let's turn back the clock. GWB wasn't elected in 2000 - you were. You're looking at 10 years or so of UN sanctions wrecking the Iraq economy and making life miserable for the people there. 60,000 children dying in Iraq each year for lack of basic food, medicine, and shelter (by UN numbers). Blatant Iraqi flaunting of the Gulf War I cease fire conditions (including weapons inspections). Our forces enforcing the no-fly zone taking fire every day. Our forces stationed in Saudi Arabia more or less indefinitely to keep an eye on Saddam, meanwhile serving as agit-prop fodder for Islamist crazies. A totally corrupt "oil-for-food" program that's feeding corruption in the UN and $ to Saddam.

All right, President Biker. What do we do about all this?

[Biker]

Just out of curiousity, what is your solution for the mess that Bush inherited vis-a-vis Iraq?

Let's turn back the clock. GWB wasn't elected in 2000 - you were. You're looking at 10 years or so of UN sanctions wrecking the Iraq economy and making life miserable for the people there. 60,000 children dying in Iraq each year for lack of basic food, medicine, and shelter (by UN numbers). Blatant Iraqi flaunting of the Gulf War I cease fire conditions (including weapons inspections). Our forces enforcing the no-fly zone taking fire every day. Our forces stationed in Saudi Arabia more or less indefinitely to keep an eye on Saddam, meanwhile serving as agit-prop fodder for Islamist crazies. A totally corrupt "oil-for-food" program that's feeding corruption in the UN and $ to Saddam.

All right, President Biker. What do we do about all this?
Well Friend, no offense meant, but this subject has been debated ad nauseum. I mean, the maggots wont go near that carcass anymore.
We won't change each other's mind, just recycle the SOS.
So, call yourself the winner if you like, but I believe that I'll just save my e-breath on this one.


:)
Biker

[antsi]

Well Friend, no offense meant, but this subject has been debated ad nauseum.
Biker

Here, on THR?

Sure, I've seen plenty of debates about the Iraq war. But I don't think I've ever seen anyone offer a coherent solution as to how they would have managed the "Saddam Problem" as GWB inherited it in 2000.

Link?

[redneck2]

The "Anti-Bush at all costs" crowd are showing their true colors..

now we know in no uncertain terms that Iran has nukes in process and they still won't do anything

hey...I've got an idea. Let's all bury our heads in the sand and make the bad boys go away..

or, click the heels of our ruby slippers together and chant "There's no place like home, there's no place like home..."

if Israel hits Iran to preserve themselves, is it still a war for oil???

[GoRon]

Sure, I've seen plenty of debates about the Iraq war. But I don't think I've ever seen anyone offer a coherent solution as to how they would have managed the "Saddam Problem" as GWB inherited it in 2000.

Wouldn't it be great if some real alternatives were actually offered by the naysayers.

I am all for libertarian style reforms to our government. The problem is they seem content to stay "pure" in philosophy and not get dirty actually governing and making hard difficult decisions.

[telomerase]

Anyone want some nice Niger yellowcake? I guess that went down the memory hole.

some real alternatives

Well, the first real alternative would be to stop supporting the dictators ourselves (http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/walker1.html) with our tax money. After we stop making the problem worse ourselves, we could talk about how to get the splinter out of the other guy's eye.

[GoRon]

Anyone want some nice Niger yellowcake? I guess that went down the memory hole.


Actually we recieved the intelligence from the British who stand by it. The "scandel" about the documents is that the "documents" weren't even around when the Brits made their assesment. The bogus documents appeared after the fact and were mentioned by the Pres to support what the Brits were already saying.

The media distorts the truth to the point where just saying Niger yellowcake makes people think of the scandel du jour. The fact that the Brits stand by their inteligence doesn't hardly merit mention.

[redneck2]

Heard a thing on the radio the other day about the WMD's in Iraq. Seats were removed from commercial jet liners (passenger planes) and the stuff was moved to Syria under the guise of relief supplies for a natural disaster there.

Military transports would have raised too much attention. One pilot said he made over 70 such flights.

Obviously, some made it into Libya. How do you think Lybia suddenly sprouted nukes???

[dolanp]

The "Anti-Bush at all costs" crowd are showing their true colors..

now we know in no uncertain terms that Iran has nukes in process and they still won't do anything

hey...I've got an idea. Let's all bury our heads in the sand and make the bad boys go away..

or, click the heels of our ruby slippers together and chant "There's no place like home, there's no place like home..."

if Israel hits Iran to preserve themselves, is it still a war for oil???


People would be more interested if we hadn't invaded the country that DIDN'T have WMDs and waited for real evidence. Now our military is stretched to the breaking point in two countries that have virtually no government and are under martial law. How can we sustain war with a country that may actually have nuclear arms at this point? We'd have to abandon the other two which Bush is always saying is the wrong thing to do.

[Master Blaster]

Com on Guys dont you know that the Uranium molding instructions come with the Pakistani bible of makeing Terrorist weapons, It right after the Ricin, and Anthrax instructions..............

You know you get it free when you buy the package deal, missiles from North Korea, Antiaircraft and anti ship missiles from Russia, Centerfuges and reactors from France, AKs from China.

Didnt you folks get the Terror is Us Ramadan sale catalog???????:(

[AZ Jeff]

Well Friend, no offense meant, but this subject has been debated ad nauseum.
OK, so let's not reopen the debate. Just point me to where you made your alternative proposals in past threads, and I will be content to read and absorb your suggestions on how you would have handled it differently that Bush PRIOR to invading Iraq.

[superhornet]

I see little reason to get upset with the Iranian program. This is for the production of electricity only. We have their word that they are not trying to obtain WMD's. Please trust us, the check is in the mail.....and I will still love you in the morning.....

[3rdpig]

A couple of points. As was mentioned Bush inherited the Iraq problem because for 8 years Clinton refused to do anything about it. The war with Iraq was legit, they were breaking the cease fire conditions almost every day. That's like being let out on probation and breaking the conditions of your probation, once it's known the original sentece is carried out, in this case the original sentence was getting your butt kicked and your country occupied by foreign soldiers. The bad thing, in my opinion, is twofold, one was the timing, with N Korea and Iran posing real nuclear threats, kicking Saddam's butt may have been better postponed. Secondly, while the war was well handled and a huge success, the occupation on the other hand, while not a failure, sure has been riddled with mistakes and bad decisions. Of course that's using hindsight, but some of the mistakes have been, at least from my vantage point, stupidly obvious.

And even after the ex Iraqi general stating that Iraq DID have WMD's and sent them to Syria before the war, some folks are STILL claiming that Iraq had none? What's up with this? Been living in a coal mine?

[River Wraith]

I like the idea of the parking lot via carpet bombing...put me on that side.

[gc70]

Maybe we should stay on the sidelines for this round of the Middle East follies.

If Iran does build a nuke, their wacko President may decide to take out Tel Aviv to prove his point. And the Israelis might just decide to use their nukes to smoke every significant Arab or Persian city in the Middle East. Then, the survivors could slug it out the old fashioned way (except for being glow-in-the-dark targets).

Of course, the psycho in North Korea would probably be feeling badly ignored and might feel the need to show his stuff (San Francisco?) to share the limelight.

But there's always the possibility that the mini-nuclear winter would reverse the effects of global warming.

[rick_reno]

Moulding uranium hemispheres - that's nothing - I've read they're working closely with the giant space bunnies on Jupiter and are planning on assisting them when they come to conquer the EARTH.

Ms. Rice is going to present pictures at the U.N. hearings documenting the giant space bunnies visits to Iran.

[cracked butt]

Terrorist Has No Idea What To Do With All This Plutonium
November 30, 2005 | Issue 41•48

ZAHEDAN, IRAN—Yaquub Akhtar, the leader of an eight-man cell linked to a terrorist organization known as the Army Of Martyrs, admitted Tuesday that he "doesn't have the slightest clue" what to do with the quarter-kilogram of plutonium he recently acquired.

"We had just given thanks to Allah for this glorious means to destroy the Great Satan once and for all, when [sub-lieutenant] Mahmoud [Ghassan] asked, 'So, what's the next step?'" Akhtar said. "I was at a loss."

The 28-year-old fanatic said he and his associates had initially assumed that at least one member of their group had the physics and engineering background necessary to construct a thermonuclear device.

"Many eyes were upon me," said Basim Aljawad, whose knowledge of physics did not extend to the principles of nuclear fission. "I make nail bombs. That's it."

Not knowing where to turn, the eight men consulted the Muslim holy book the Quran, which proved unhelpful. Said Akhtar: "Even Umar Abd al-Malik, who interprets the ancient scripture more freely than the rest of us, could not find an instructive passage."

Morale was temporarily buoyed when cell member Dawoud Bishr, a former student at the Sorbonne in Paris, was found intently examining the exposed plutonium, which he had lifted from its protective lead footlocker. Two days later, however, the others had to bury Bishr in a landfill outside the city.

Akhtar, in hiding in a small, spartan cellar in one of Zahedan's poorer neighborhoods, said that the only use he's found for the encased lethal substance so far is as a flat surface on which to lay out a map of a government armory outside Islamabad and a large piece of paper to make a blueprint for transferring the plutonium to an effective delivery system.

"I drew a circle to represent the plutonium," Akhtar said. "Then I drew a line pointing to it, and beside it wrote 'plutonium.' After that, I just hit a wall."


Akhtar and his associates initially planned to create a "suitcase bomb," but soon after they obtained the plutonium, they learned that such bombs weigh over 700 pounds, and are therefore too heavy for any of them to lift alone.

Said Akhtar: "The only thing this weapon of mass destruction is destroying right now is our ability to kill infidels."

"I have heard many in the corrupt Western media say that Muslim terrorists have acquired harmful radioactive materials that can be readily deployed," al-Malik said. "Whoever this terrorist group is that's all but ready to strike America with a nuclear device, we sure could use their help."

Unable to search for bomb-making instructions on his laptop for fear of being monitored, Akhtar has been forced to send another of his sub-lieutenants, 23-year-old Ibraheem Jaalal, to a local Internet café in hopes of acquiring the necessary data. According to Jaalal, the process so far has proven "unbearably slow" and "outrageously expensive," claiming he can't believe the coffee shop charges $4.95 for an hour of dial-up-speed Internet use.

The cell's lack of contacts with professional scientists and engineers has also undermined their bomb-building efforts. "A friend of mine at university studied metallurgy," Jaalal said. "I have his e-mail address, but I can't just write him and say, 'Oh, hello, Suleymann, long time no see. Say, I'm a terrorist now, and I was wondering: How do you go about building a nuclear bomb?'"

After three days without progress, the plutonium, once a source of pride for Akhtar and the other men, has increasingly become a fountain of frustration.

"I guess we got carried away with the idea of making a nuclear weapon before thinking the whole thing through," said Akhtar, who admitted that even if he "could bombard that plutonium nuclei with enough electrons, whatever those are," getting the bomb to North America would prove another logistical mess.

"I still believe in taking the lives of American civilians as revenge for the atrocities committed on our brothers, our wives, and our daughters," Akhtar said. "I'm just not entirely sure it's worth a headache this big."


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43012