[carlrodd]

all things considered, and obviously gun laws being a sort of litmus test, which state in our union do you believe to be most free? think about the full spectrum of rights that we are guaranteed by the constitution. of course, along with this would be which state you think is the least free.

i can only go on my personal experiences. Texas seems very much "open" to me, and as far as my east coast states, maybe new hampshire?? new jersey is hands down the worst, though if i lived in california i might think differently.

[WillBrayJr]

Far and away, Vermont;)

[Turkey Creek]

I live in Missouri and am happy with the freedoms in this state- better than Michigan from which I moved 35 years ago- of course I am rural and don't have to deal with big city regulations-

[jcs271]

MONTANA TERRITORY!

One of the last "still free" states.

[El Tejon]

Texas? With all their gun laws?:confused:

ATFE publishes a compendium of state laws. Get it and see who has the fewest. IIRC, it is Idaho.

[Fletchette]

Wyoming has my vote.

Looking at their state Constitution:

RKBA is expressed as an individual right.

emminent domain is only for specified reasons

No income tax

Limit on state government debt

even a clause saying that companies that do business within the state must adhere to the state Constitution (hmmm... perhaps legal action against Google?)

[TexasRifleman]

Well Montana is sure trying hardest, and that's worth more than anything.

102 Reasons to choose Montana (http://freemontana.com/102_Reasons.html)

[Thefabulousfink]

The northern rocky mountain states (idaho and montana) have few regulations on guns or just about anything else. Some of the midwest states, texas, and the northern new england states aren't bad either.

[ElTacoGrande]

Well Montana is sure trying hardest, and that's worth more than anything.

102 Reasons to choose Montana (http://freemontana.com/102_Reasons.html)

Wow, upon reading that list, I am persuaded. I'm actually tempted by that. A lot more tempted than I am by New Hampshire.

Ok, time to work hard, make money and maybe move to MT.

[edave]

New Hampshire. Certainly of the Eastern states. But I live here, so I'm somewhat biased. :) Although I will concede that Montana and Wyoming have much to recommend them as well.

As for NH gun laws:

Shall issue since 1923 (80+ years!)
Open carry legal (although not common in the few cities)
Class III no big deal (if you can afford it)
Firearms law preemption (so uniform laws throughout the state, no city or town can make their own firearms rules)


Also, did I mention:
- No state income tax
- No sales tax

And a truly part-time legislature (so less time to cause mischief) with pay set in the state constitution, so legislators can't vote themselves a pay raise without the citizens approving an amendment to the state constitution!


Other reasons (Quoted from http://www.freestateproject.org/community/nh_info.php):


4th lowest-size state/local bureaucracy (pdf)
Second in economic competitiveness. Press release (pdf), full report (pdf).
Third-healthiest state in the 2005 Overall America's Health Rankings by the United Health Foundation.
N.H. leads region in economic vigor - Portsmouth Herald, 11/10/05
US Census Bureau Report (PDF) released 10/27/05: NH #2 in "% of Households with Internet Access" and #3 in "% Households with a Computer". Also see newspaper article.
#2 in 2005 Work Environment Index
Best state for well-being of children. See rankings and press release.
Most-livable state for 2005!
2nd healthiest state in the nation!
Most Improved State
4th safest state
More great rankings (PDF) including most favorable tax climate, Child and Family Well-Being, and more.

[gezzer]

Far and away, Vermont;)
How? No silencers allowed, sales tax , income tax. I don't think so

I have to vote NH, of course I live here. No sales tax, no income tax, easy C3, shall issue concealed carry, legal open cary STATEWIDE even though the southern cities can think they are in MA they must obey the law. Also the right in the State constitution to revolt against tyrany. (love that one)

Town meeting mostly the rule across the state. One can have an impact in local and State affairs. No proffesional polititions in the house or senate.

Live Free or Die

[robfogle]

Montana -- Born and raised and sorry as heck that I left. But I'll be back!!

[TallPine]

Montana does have an "open container" law now, and smoking is now prohibited in all public places including bars :(

Still, it's about as free a place as any, if you can manage to make a living here.

I'd say that AK, VT, NH, MT, WY, and ID probably rank as the free-est states. Some pros and cons to each. Sometimes I wish I had stayed in AK, but I was raised in the semi-arid West and I just couldn't get used to the boreal jungles and bogs. Not much of a place to have horses, except maybe in the Matanuska Valley. WY would be all right, but I like grass better than sagebrush, and WY is still too close to CO :p (which has already been ruined by Californians IMO)

Eastern MT and Western MT have somewhat different cultures. Eastern half has been losing population while the west (scenic) area is growing more crowded. But after a while you get used to prairie and rimrocks and scrubby pine trees ;)

[KCMO]

I hate to bring alcohol into the equation on a gun board;
But "Nanny-States” or ”ABC Control States” have always bothered me.

The following States believe it's their job to operate retail liquor stores:

Alabama, Idaho, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, North Carolina,
Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Controversies/1127524611.html

I know it's a great source of revenue for these States, but come on, what's next?

I’m also aware that these controls don’t necessarily hamper freedom, but it still bothers the hell out of me.

[hillbilly]

Having lived there for two years, I'll vote for Wyoming.

hillbilly

[MTMilitiaman]

45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms.(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
(2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent or surpress the carrying of concealed and unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publically owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school and the possession of weapons by convicted felons, adjuducated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
(b) Nothing contained herein shall allow an government to prohibit the legitimate display of firearms at shows or other public occassions by collectors and others, nor shall anything contained herein prohibit the legitimate transportation of firearms through any jurisdiction, whether in airports or otherwise.

That's a taste of the freedom we have in Montana. If you want to gander through the rest of the firearms laws you'll see lethal force in self defense is accepted on reasonable grounds with no duty to retreat from your own residence, there is basically no laws concerning the transportation of firearms in vehicles, and Montana is "Shall Issue."

Plus...
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=24099&d=1114673349

[BozemanMT]

Uhhhh, California?:rolleyes:
No, kidding
Wyoming by far.
Montana has some strange laws (although not around guns), right to work state rather than at will, heavy heavy income tax (11.25% at the top), anti-mining laws (in the "treasure state" no less) and Missoula, well. I mean, pretty darn close to good esp for your poor coasters but.
I would have to vote Wyoming.

Montana looks better than most of Wyoming though.

[Optical Serenity]

Of course I am biased, but I vote for Georgia as being a very free state. Perhaps not the most free, but the firearms laws here are very liberal, and its almost unheard of that a citizen, LEO, or anyone for that matter that uses deadly force in self defense ever gets put on the stand.

[Erinyes]

Of course I am biased, but I vote for Georgia as being a very free state. Perhaps not the most free, but the firearms laws here are very liberal, and its almost unheard of that a citizen, LEO, or anyone for that matter that uses deadly force in self defense ever gets put on the stand.I love my home state, but it has too many restrictions. On the firearms side, there's a host of places prohibited for CCW (Infact, anything that can be construed as a "public gathering," and restaurants that serve alcohol, state parks, churches. Infact, there seems to be fewer places you can carry than can't. At least businesses can't post against it). And despite state laws about shall issue, some counties really enjoy dragging their feet (It can take up to six months to get a GFL in Catoosa County).

It gets a little worse on other issues. State wide public smoking ban (almost ended up being a total ban on smoking outside of your own private property). State income tax, ad velorum tax on car tags, state sales tax (admittedly a low one, 4%). And none of the surroundings states (except maybe Alabama) are much better. In Tennessee the only differences are no smoking ban and no income tax. Of course, a TN CCW costs triple to quintuple a GFL.

Still, it could be worse. We could be in Taxachussettes, or Illinois.

[Cosmoline]

I'll buy a beer to the first person who's lived a long time in Alaska, Wyomin, Montana or Idaho and then moves to NH or Vermont and seriously maintains that the little east coast colonies are more free than the mountain states or AK. Every little village and burg over in NH and Vermont has a board of selectment, town elders, planning boards, zoning boards and heap plenty regulations. They are free BY EAST COAST STANDARDS, but that's not saying a whole lot. In comparison to the real free states they are small, crowded, ingrown and civilized.

As far as gun laws on the books, those only go so far. The attitude and outlook of the jury pool and LEO's is just as important.

:neener:

[LAK]

What Cosoline said.

And as free as Vermont carry law is, all other things considered I would have to pick Alaska as the most free state to live in.
------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedtstates.org

[RealGun]

Oregon's openness to assisted suicide makes it high on my list. Maryland is very low, because I can't drive through while wearing a gun in the car, concealed or otherwise.

Were it not for the Supreme Court, I would be picking States somewhat based upon freedom to obtain an abortion, i.e. freedom from others not minding their own business.

I shouldn't have to pick. There should be only one definition of personal freedoms defined at the national level. Our modern mobility makes it clear that we need to take our rights with us when we cross State lines. I favor principle rather than a localized tyranny of the majority.

A State's rights argument is often spurious in my opinion. I really don't care about archaic arguments for republics and sovereignty. That all gets abused anyway. It's nonsense in today's world. I would agree that whatever the law states should be according to the Constitution, but not a static one that is not being amended to support perceived needs for change in the law or to close loopholes in its interpretation.

[Igloodude]

I'll buy a beer to the first person who's lived a long time in Alaska, Wyomin, Montana or Idaho and then moves to NH or Vermont and seriously maintains that the little east coast colonies are more free than the mountain states or AK. Every little village and burg over in NH and Vermont has a board of selectment, town elders, planning boards, zoning boards and heap plenty regulations. They are free BY EAST COAST STANDARDS, but that's not saying a whole lot. In comparison to the real free states they are small, crowded, ingrown and civilized.

As far as gun laws on the books, those only go so far. The attitude and outlook of the jury pool and LEO's is just as important.

:neener:

K, next time I get to Koot's the first round is on you. :p

I lived in Alaska for four years, then Vermont for two, and New Hampshire for three and counting.

Small - yes.
Crowded - Compared to the western states, yes.
Ingrown - you're going to have to define this one better. If it means we have actual roads going to every town and village, yes. ;)
Civilized - yes. But civilization is not necessarily the opposite of freedom.

Alaska doesn't have a state income tax, but it isn't seriously pressed for one with oil revenue flowing in. New Hampshire just doesn't have one.

Alaska's political infrastructure at the state level is considerably heavier than New Hampshire's. At the national level, you have Stevens, Murkowski, and Young doing their best Robert Byrd impression and feasting on Federal money. At the local level, I agree with you that Alaska gets the nod, but with as much bush area as there is, that's no surprise.

For individual peculiarities, yeah New Hampshire has state liquor stores, but on the other hand you can ride a motorcycle without a helmet. And as far as I know, New Hampshire doesn't have any dry villages.

If Alaska would stop having earthquakes, I'd probably still be living there, but freedom-wise it is at least an arguable tie between The Last Frontier and the Live Free or Die state.

[Manedwolf]

I'd say NH, myself. And it has several things going for it, besides the lack of sales tax, state income tax, and the ease of getting CCW.

It's not in the middle of nowhere, not in "flyover country". You can get to the major business centers of the east coast by car in hours.

It gets northeast cold, but not northern-plains-states "step outside door and breathing is sheer pain" cold. This winter has been oddly mild, 60 degrees in the middle of Jan several times.

It's not crowded, but it has decent-sized cities in the southern half, you don't need to drive 20 miles to go to any of the major chain stores you can think of. You can still live among trees in quiet, but be 2-5 miles from a Target, Best Buy, etc.

I would hate having to drive 20 miles to buy milk, and I couldn't stand too much wide open nothing, I get bored. :D

[Camp David]

I'd have to say it is tie among five states: Montana, New Hampshire, Wyoming, Alaska and Vermont.

Alaska wins overall since it is too cold for most everything else but freedom!

[FireBreather01]

Well, it is definitely NOT Wisconsin.

Gun-hating democrats:cuss:

Sky-high taxes:fire:

Idiot Milwaukee and Madison sheeple run the state with their 'progressive', as in socialist-let-the-Man-run-it-all, attitudes.

If not for strong family ties, I would be outta here!!!

[Cosmoline]

My dog likes the fact that Alaska has an endless supply of sticks, free for the taking

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b52/Gussick/stick4.jpg

[Drysdale]

Wow, upon reading that list, I am persuaded. I'm actually tempted by that. A lot more tempted than I am by New Hampshire.

Ok, time to work hard, make money and maybe move to MT.

Better hurry... lots of Californians are moving there and trying to make it into a little Cali...

[c_yeager]

I have to go with Alaska. Freedom is more that how many laws are on the books. Alaska is not only short on freedom-restrictive laws, they have a general culture of permisiveness. I also get a real sense that the state government has a tendancy to believe that they actually work for the population rather than the other way around. Besides, you have to respect a state that gives its surplus revenue back to the population, rather than finding worthless projects to spend it on.

[Creeping Incrementalism]

What about Nevada?

[blackrazor]

Alaska, no question about it. No other state can match the following:

No income tax
No sales tax
No property tax
State-wide CCW WITHOUT a permit
Class 3 stuff OK
No screwy anti-smoking laws (that I know of)

Alaska is on a whole different plane when compared to the rest of the USA. Sure Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, etc. are good, but c'mon, they don't even compare to Alaska, not even close. Plus, as an added bonus, the postal code for Alaska is "AK" :cool:

[stevelyn]

The Free Republic of Alaska.

Although we've slipped over the edge a little this week and lost a little freedom.
The governor signed a bill into law making seatbelt violations a primary offense.:barf:
At least he was honest about it being a revenue generator and didn't try to blow smoke up our collective arses about "saftey" like the Public Safety Commisioner did.:rolleyes: Oh well, nobody said I have to enforce it..........officer descretion ya know.:neener:

[otasan]

[QUOTE=edave]New Hampshire. Certainly of the Eastern states. But I live here, so I'm somewhat biased. :) Although I will concede that Montana and Wyoming have much to recommend them as well.

As for NH gun laws:

Shall issue since 1923 (80+ years!)
Open carry legal (although not common in the few cities)
Class III no big deal (if you can afford it)
Firearms law preemption (so uniform laws throughout the state, no city or town can make their own firearms rules)


Also, did I mention:
- No state income tax
- No sales tax

And a truly part-time legislature (so less time to cause mischief) with pay set in the state constitution, so legislators can't vote themselves a pay raise without the citizens approving an amendment to the state constitution!


Other reasons (Quoted from [URL="http://www.freestateproject.org/community/nh_info.php



No state is free as long as a district court judge in MA feels free to issue a restraining order against an out-of-state man who has had next to no contact with plaintiff in 19 years, and what little there was was totally safe and non-threatening.

My small firearms collection has been in police storage since last D-Day.

You could be a defendant in Alaska and still fall victim to this injustice.

[PCGS65]

Alaska, no question about it. No other state can match the following:

No income tax
No sales tax
No property tax
State-wide CCW WITHOUT a permit
Class 3 stuff OK
No screwy anti-smoking laws (that I know of)

Alaska is on a whole different plane when compared to the rest of the USA. Sure Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, etc. are good, but c'mon, they don't even compare to Alaska, not even close. Plus, as an added bonus, the postal code for Alaska is "AK" :cool:
OK Illinois is, well it sounds like most of you know but here we go
Income tax 3%, but they want to raise it to 5%
State sales tax is 6.25% but where I live it's 7.75% and 9.5% for alcohol and restaurant dining including fast food.
Property tax is 7.1% of 1/3 assesed value(high)
No CCW, Illegal to own/posses a gun in cook county(chicago)even if just driving through.
Illegal to posses a gun within 1000' of a church,school or park.
Legislation pending to ban all military style guns or guns that look like.
Use of cameras in some cities at intersectons to mail you tickets.
Camera/computerized vans in constuction zones to mail you speeding tickets $375 minimum, $1000 second offence with suspension of licence.
It's against the law for me/my son to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk around the block. No I don't live in chicago.
That's enough for now. Hey Blackrazor,Cosmoline Tell me more about alaska. Like really no property taxes? I hear residents receive oil revenue checks? What about jobs? How much to heat your house/igloo?LOL Just having some fun there. I'm serious though. PM me if you want so the mods don't lock for drift. Oh I almost forgot,I'm a seafood lover too!:)

[RealGun]

The governor signed a bill into law making seatbelt violations a primary offense.:barf:

Someday you may find that a gun found not on your person without a trigger lock will be a "primary offense". The seeds have been planted.

[MCgunner]

Alaska's one of those "nice place to visits" and in proper season and then you'd better bring plenty of deep woods off.

New Mexico would rank if gun laws were the only test. They don't have a concealed carry law, but are an open carry state. When I got my FFL 15 years ago, I got a book of firearms laws and browsed it. New Mexico had like one paragraph, LOL, and New York was like a friggin' BOOK!:eek: My GOD, SCREW New York! New Mexico doesn't have much population, has a lot of wide open spaces and big game hunting and is 51% public land last I read. However, I HATE state income taxes. It is democrat controlled pretty much and pretty stupid liberal, but somehow that doesn't bleed over into gun laws. Apparently there's not much crime there for liberals to blame guns for.

I could think of a lot worse places to live than New Mexico, but I don't like the fact that they have little if any waterfowl hunting. I gots ta have my ducks!

Illegal to own/posses a gun in cook county(chicago)even if just driving through.


I hope the supreme court gets a shot at that one sometime in the future.

[Gifted]

New Mexico would rank if gun laws were the only test. They don't have a concealed carry law, but are an open carry state. They do. In fact they changed it before I left to make it more friendly, lowering the gae limit and such. Only problem I had was the arid climate. My nose didn't like it.

So, we have a list of a few states that are the freest. Now for the next question, which one is preferable? Pop. density, cost of living, etc.

[Fletchette]

So, we have a list of a few states that are the freest. Now for the next question, which one is preferable? Pop. density, cost of living, etc.

Since Freedom is my highest priority, I do not see a difference.

[stevelyn]

Since Freedom is my highest priority, I do not see a difference.

Precisely! What's a little -40 F weather when the goobermint pretty much leaves you alone?:D

[blackrazor]

The weather in Juneau is some of the nicest in the country. It's 44 degrees F there right now, and it's early in the morning in mid February.

[PCGS65]

The weather in Juneau is some of the nicest in the country. It's 44 degrees F there right now, and it's early in the morning in mid February.
Blackrazor how are jobs,cost to heat a home? Are there really no property taxes? I love to hunt also. Tell me more...............:)

[silliman89]

KCMO -- #14
I hate to bring alcohol into the equation on a gun board;
But "Nanny-States” or ”ABC Control States” have always bothered me.

I drive hundreds of miles to buy my alcohol in NH every year. It's 20% cheaper there and I buy a year's supply so that's a noticeable amount. I don't know of any place that has better prices than the NH state liquor stores, and the one on I-95 has great selection.

If cheap booze makes for a Nanny-State, then I'm first in line for the nipple. ;)

[silliman89]

Cosmoline -- #27
My dog likes the fact that Alaska has an endless supply of sticks, free for the taking

Nice looking German Shepard Dog. Living in VA as we do, our dog suffers because there aren't any sticks.:rolleyes:

[treebeard]

NH for sure!

[Libertyteeth]

There is a new Montana freedom migration site up. The old freewest.org (MT/ ID/ WY) was hacked and was down for some time. There is a lot of useful information collected here for those interested in practical aspects of a Montana migration (though lots was lost and is not yet restored), or have questions about some aspect. Jobs, taxes, gun rights, homesteading information, weather, politics and culture are discussed, with people just now beginning to get active on it.

http://www.montana-alliance-for-liberty.org/

http://www.montana-alliance-for-liberty.org/phpBB2/index.php

From a libertarian perspective, Montana is an interesting blend of liberal and conservative with a healthy dollop of libertarianism and constitutionalism thrown in. Kind of a live and let live attitude, especially in Western Montana (the mountainous part -- people live in the mountain valleys).

Montana privatized the state liquor stores some time ago.

[IndianaDean]

[QUOTE=Cosmoline]My dog likes the fact that Alaska has an endless supply of sticks, free for the taking



Beautiful animal! I like Shepherds.

As for Vermont, other than firearms the state seems to me to be very socialist. I wouldn't call that free in any big sense.

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Take a good look at any major governing city dealing with geographic areas involving minority issues like black on black violent crime, gang violence and drug related killings and that state will not be free as this thread is talking about.
In this case Baltimore, Maryland's Violent crime rate fuels the fire of a restrictive anticarry agenda for the entire state of Maryland.

Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, New hampshire, New mexico, Arizona are some of the fortunate states that don't experience crimes of this intensitity.

IMHO CCW was meant to deal with just this type inhumanity. Where and when you need to deal in the most critical fashion. This type of inhumanity will not listen to reason or correction or society or values ingrained from family listen to nothing else but the business end of a gun.

Leaders and Politicians are led to believe that anyone with a gun has degenerated to criminal level and guns as a whole are bad because in their world "bad guns = bad people" and this is all they are taught to hear and see.

IMHO It is a sad fact to see a degenerate city of Baltimore extend it's sovereign gun rights over the whole State of Maryland and restrict the whole state. I can only imagine large parts of California strongly resembling Maryland.
We who believe in RBKA need to influence those who can influence others.

[Nulik]

How would you rate Colorado on the list? I just moved here recently and it seems a whole lot freer than New Jersey.

[Igloodude]

How would you rate Colorado on the list? I just moved here recently and it seems a whole lot freer than New Jersey.

Welcome to THR! :)

And I'll be the first one to say: "a whole lot freer than New Jersey" is kinda like "a whole lot colder than hell". :evil:

[Pilot]

How would you rate Colorado on the list? I just moved here recently and it seems a whole lot freer than New Jersey.

Colorado is much freer than New Jersey, but so is mainland China. NJ could be the poster child for a socialist, nanny state, hell hole. I moved to CO from S.E. PA about 1 1/2 years ago and find CO about the same as PA for guns, taxes, politics, etc. For a northeastern state PA is pretty good. For a Rocky Mountain western state, CO is only fair. Lots of people from CA have moved here and want to emulate their former goofy state.

[UWstudent]

its california!!!! as long as you're in a gang and you dont give a **** about the po-lice, then ur free as hell..

actually it is really alaska. its also beautiful up there as i might add

[Merkin.Muffley]

Alaska - nothing else even comes close. I keep asking myself why I'm not there.

[TallPine]

Lots of people from CA have moved here [CO] and want to emulate their former goofy state.
Which is why some people like me have left CO and moved to MT ;)

I guess the "freest state" would be the one you feel the most free in. For a hoplophobe who wants the government to take care of him/her, that might be NJ or CA ...:p

IMO, MT takes the prize out of the Lower 48. AK might be the first choice. I tried it for a couple years a few decades ago, but I just never quite took to it. Lot's of federal owned land up there, which means there's not much private land to buy. Not many roads even for a 4wd, and you don't just walk anyplace you want either, because of the brush and swamps and rivers to cross. At one point I tried to talk my wife into buying a boat and living on it in SE AK, but she would have none of that.

I wish that I had just moved to MT right out of HS in 1972. But certain parts of western CO used to be real nice, before the roads got paved. Took me a long time to get shangri-la out of my system.:( MT has all these neat things like cold windy winters and blistering dry summers, grasshoppers, prickly pear, thistle, and rattlesnakes to keep all the riff-raff out :p