[Moonclip]

What do you all think, I have a nice one but have not worked up courage to shave with it yet. Would it be legal to carry as all it really is is a non locking folding knife I would think if those are legal in ones area.

I thought they may be the ticket for being at least minimally armed in a foreign country packed in ones toiletry bag. And pros/cons to this as a weapon besides the fact stabbing movements are impossible?

[joab]

Rules of your state may vary but they are generally illegal to carry.
Not to mention dangerous.
In my youth Iregularly carried one because you could buy thm at flea markets for about $1.
Once while jumping over a wall for some reason I fell backwards onto the back pocket where I carried it. Ten stitches sewed the hole up

Some countries specifically prohibit carrying razors or razor knives and boxcutters, I was almost busted in Vietnam for that

The old redneck knife fighters I knew carried small pen kives, my father carried one sewn into the collar of his shirt or held in place by those little buttons on the back of the collar.
They would then use them to slash their opponent with many small cuts
I think fighting with razors is a lost art form now

[1 old 0311]

Redd Fox did a comedy bit years ago.............." People said Blacks carry knives, so I went out and bought one.......Didn't see a reason for it. Hell I been carrying a straight razor for 45 years":neener: :neener: :neener:

Kevin

[Soap]

Keating has a decent article about them:

http://www.jamesakeating.com/maajak7a.html

[Third_Rail]

Certainly someone else has read Snow Crash? :D

[ocelot777]

Yeah -- I bet Neil Stephenson has been in lots of razor fights (good book though).

Other interesting books that mention razors are those in the"Edge" series by George Gilman. Edge is a seriously mean guy (much like Josey Wales -- family killed in the American Civil War, etc.), who carries a razor (open as far as I can tell from the text) in a pouch at he back of his neck.

I have a razor, but mine is a "dissecting" or "sectioning" razor -- used by biologists and anatomists for cutting up dead animals or cutting slices of plants for microscopy.

They can be obtained quite cheaply from surgical instrument suppliers or scientific equipment supply houses. The blades are hollow ground on one side only, with the other side flat like a chisel-ground knife (they come in right- and left-hand versions, depending on which side is hollow ground). These razors are a bit tougher and less prone to chipping than shaving razors and can be made very sharp indeed, but edge retention is not great, for obvious reasons.

I know a bunch of quick-opening techniques which work well (after many many hours of practice of course), but I think fighting efficiency with these blades relies on a good knowledge of anatomy (plus the usual determination, mean-ness and luck).

They are, at least notionally, legal to carry in the UK (if the blade is less than 3", but the law would probably consider the shank as part of the blade -- i.e. anything that is exposed forward of the pivot) since there is no lock. Having said that, the razor's reputation would almost guarantee a two-stretch I think.

[pete f]

I thought only pimps and 'ho's carried a straight razor, least that is what Richard Pryor said....

[R.H. Lee]

In any fight, you're liable to be cut/wounded also. Do you really want to swap blood with an unknown attacker? You might be better off with and impact weapon of some kind.

[Lo.Com.Denom]

In my youth Iregularly carried one because you could buy thm at flea markets for about $1.
Once while jumping over a wall for some reason I fell backwards onto the back pocket where I carried it. Ten stitches sewed the hole up


Well, be thankful that you didn't go with the "Mexican carry" option...:D

[tellner]

I thought only pimps and 'ho's carried a straight razor, least that is what Richard Pryor said....

That's from when he called Black people "******s". He changed after a while, saying "I went to Africa and saw millions of Black people. Not one ******."

The practice of prejudice against inanimate objects based on race, class or religious prejudice is a stupid one. It's why automatic knives, heck bladed weapons in general, are often treated more harshly than firearms. Upstanding White tax-paying Christians carry guns. Nigras and Mezcans carry razors, knives and switchblades. So of course, we have to push them down hard.

A lot of the current wave of prejudice against guns seems to coincide with the popular association of the pistol with "gang and drug violence". In other words, Blacks have guns. They aren't People Like Us. Therefore, guns are Scary Negro Things. We can't ban Negroes, so we need to ban pistols. The laws against "cheap" firearms have similar class-based underpinnings. Popular American mythology holds that we don't have class or class problems in this country, so we react irrationally to class issues because they aren't supposed to exist. The hatred of "White trash", the homeless and the urban poor gets expressed in a number of ways. It's the "cheap" as much as the "handgun" that scares a lot of people. The association is with poor people. Again, we can't actually get rid of them, but inexpensive firearms are one of a number of things that we can scapegoat.

[Lo.Com.Denom]

EEK! Seeing as we're getting all serious, I hope it was clear that when I said "Mexican carry" I meant simply "down the front of the waistband" and wasn't inferring anything about Mexicans!

Did Richard Pryor come out with that observation before Chris Rock, or after? Rock certainly got a lot of attention for saying roughly the same thing, IIRC.

Back on topic, I really can't see much to say for a cut-throat razor over a knife. It's not exactly designed with fighting in mind, is it? Just imagine all that blood flowing and your hand slipping down the grip, towards the blade... I think that I read somewhere that people who use kitchen knives as weapons, often have lacerated palms, due to the lack of a crossguard and all the blood produced in the fight getting on the knife handle. You wouldn't be stabbing with a cut-throat razor, but it's still worth considering.

Me, I don't much fancy going to prison for carrying an "offensive weapon", ("No, it's a defensive weapon, Ossifer! What do you mean, 'I'm nicked'?" so I guess I'll just keep on trying to kill with the power of my mind...:p

[El Tejon]

tellner, absolutely, excellent historical analogy. The chicken-stealing, razor-toting layabout of the 1890s which ushered in the Son of Ham laws in the South became the crack-dealing, Uzi-toting gansta of the 1990s and ushered in the AWB.

Have had a few straight razor cases. Very bloody, but no one hurt really bad and no stops.

As a defensive weapon, I would rate it less than optimal. I have to get close, I have to cut through layers of clothing, I have come through someone's arms/legs to hit something vital (leg arteries bleed like a mother but do not produce immediate stops), and I have to work against edged weapon prejudice that police and prosecutors have. Give me a 1911 any day.

[svtruth]

used to carry one. She would open it all the way, folded back against the handle and wrap one layer of handkerchief over the edge. Thus you could grip it but still cut some one three ways. (Deeply, widely and repeatedly).

[middy]

:banghead:

Nice sermon. :rolleyes:

And another one hits the kill file.

[MrTwigg]

It can fold over on your hand. :what:

I'm sure it's been said before but I'll say it here. Never fight with a folding knife, any kind of folding knife. If you think you can :scrutiny: go ahead, it's still a free country (Relativly.) I'll be here with the bandages. :neener:

I've been told a knife is good for cleaning fish, field dressing game and cutting up your steak. It's a weapon of last resort and if you really, really need one, then put a solid piece of steel in your hand.

I'm not a bad *ss and don't claim to be. Just been around the block a few times.:D

[f4t9r]

What do you all think, I have a nice one but have not worked up courage to shave with it yet. Would it be legal to carry as all it really is is a non locking folding knife I would think if those are legal in ones area.

I thought they may be the ticket for being at least minimally armed in a foreign country packed in ones toiletry bag. And pros/cons to this as a weapon besides the fact stabbing movements are impossible?

you could defend yourself or give a shave if needed

[joab]

It can fold over on your hand. Not if held properly.
The hook at the end goes over the pinky, the shaft goes under the fingers with back edge of the blade against the fore finger, the thumb over the top edge of the blade locks it in place.
It's not folding and you're not taking it away.

Razor cuts hurt a lot but don't necessarily cause grave injuries unless you go for the throat or wrist.

Hand and lower armed slashes and across the back are the preferred targets they cause a lot of scary bleeding and sting like hell.

if you do decide to get in a fight with razor or short knife be ready to get cut.

I have three scars from a "friendly" fight
One across the knuckle of my thumb, one at the first joint of my forefinger that almost hit bone and one at the wrist and inch or two away from the suicide zone.

It's a good thing someone stopped the fight I was starting to figure out some kind of strategy, or at least that I needed one

Which brings me to another important point
Buying a really neat razor don't make you no razor fighter

[ocelot777]

Back on topic, I really can't see much to say for a cut-throat razor over a knife. It's not exactly designed with fighting in mind, is it? Just imagine all that blood flowing and your hand slipping down the grip, towards the blade... I think that I read somewhere that people who use kitchen knives as weapons, often have lacerated palms, due to the lack of a crossguard and all the blood produced in the fight getting on the knife handle. You wouldn't be stabbing with a cut-throat razor, but it's still worth considering.

Me, I don't much fancy going to prison for carrying an "offensive weapon", ("No, it's a defensive weapon, Ossifer! What do you mean, 'I'm nicked'?" so I guess I'll just keep on trying to kill with the power of my mind...:p

It obviously isn't designed as a weapon;as a "weapon of opportunity", however, it has more potential than a teaspoon (for instance, or a pencil, even though a pencil is a fair weapon in its own right). I don't see the harm in becoming familiar with another potential weapon and I think most here would agree.

As for the blood, why should there be more than the copious amounts that you could reasonably expect in any fight involving any edged weapon (a knife, for example)?

Tellner! Good point, if you don't mind me saying so. I think that economics (capitalist economics of course) account for the 'let's ban cheap firearms' syndrome in a parallel and intimately related way that will just sweat with inevitability until the world turns upside down. I expect that once all the cheap guns are banned, your middle-range weapons will be next, ans so on. (This happened in the UK years ago, hence my interest in pencils ans the like.)

[tellner]

Did Richard Pryor come out with that observation before Chris Rock, or after? Rock certainly got a lot of attention for saying roughly the same thing, IIRC.
It was back in the 1980s.

Back on topic, I really can't see much to say for a cut-throat razor over a knife. It's not exactly designed with fighting in mind, is it? Just imagine all that blood flowing and your hand slipping down the grip, towards the blade... I think that I read somewhere that people who use kitchen knives as weapons, often have lacerated palms, due to the lack of a crossguard and all the blood produced in the fight getting on the knife handle. You wouldn't be stabbing with a cut-throat razor, but it's still worth considering.
A razor can't, as they say, reach to the bottom of the peanut butter jar. It doesn't have as secure or safe a grip as a decently made knife. And unless you are a travelling barber who carries combs, scissors and a folding chair around on his back you're going to fail the police attitude test. With a lot of knives you can say "What the hell? It's a pocket knife."

[joab]

As for the blood, why should there be more than the copious amounts that you could reasonably expect in any fight involving any edged weaponSlashes bleed more than punctures and razors make longer and deeper slashes than a typical knife.

[Valkman]

All I know is if anyone evers pulls a razor on me in a threatening manner I'm shooting until slide lock and reloading!

[ziadel]

http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~madsb/home/watch/wallpapers/matrix/_orig/mb_matrix_twins_v10a_940.jpg


/obligatory
//look at the twins right hand
///weeeeeee!

[1911JMB]

If you have any doubt what a razor blade can do, view an autopsy or gut an animal with one. One good slash will quickly gut and therefor kill a person. But the way I see it is, at that range, eye gouges are actually a more dependable plan, and there is no weapon to be caught with.

[FXR]

I only use them for shaving, not fighting. (Yes, it's a better shave than 2,3,4, or 5 blades in a disposable plastic razor, but that's for another thread :cool: )

Straight razors are optimized for handling while shaving, not fighting. You certainly *can* use them for sawing on someone but they're very clumsy to the hand for hard or quick-cutting knife work. Although I have no proof, my guess is that they were more commonly used as weapons in the old days when everyone used them to shave; you sort of had some built-in plausible deniability for having one in your pocket. That's no longer true.

The best thing I've learned from straight razor shaving is how to sharpen a blade. That's added a whole new dimension to knowing when an edge is really "shaving sharp". So, buy a good fixed blade knife and learn how to put a proper edge on it. Then buy a folder and put a good edge on that.

Then, when trouble strikes, go for your gun first! Nothing wrong with bringing a knife to a gun fight as long as you use your gun first!
K

[Skofnung]

I own several. I use them to shave with every now and then.

Razors cut. They cut clean and I would imagine that they would cut fairly shallow in a fight. The cuts would hurt like hell, but unless a major artery is severed the fight will go on.

If I had a choice in the matter, a SR would be near the bottom of my edged weapon list.

Stabs are deadlier than cuts in general. They get to the important stuff and if a CNS hit is obtained, the fight is over.

If you are in a foreign country, there are better choices for defense than blades. My preferred SD weapon overseas (Europe) is a 50" straight staff thinly disguised as a hiking stick. A walking cane would serve well too.

[Moonclip]

I knew the Negro thing would come up somehow! Anyways there is no shame in having a weapon you are associated with racially. I'm suppose to have as a "Meskin" a 38super Colt, a 30/30 Winchester and a knife of some sort, not a razor generally but preferably a Boker or maybe a machete:rolleyes:

One of my distant relatives was Irish though so maybe thats why I'm partial to my shillelagh. I know if I was Chinese I'd acquire a Broomhandle Mauser for sure!

My main HD weapon BTW while living overseas was a hatchet.

[kjeff50cal]

The true deadly weapon among the "sporting life" ball room brawlers is not the straight razor..... it is the icepick. I was talking to a retired ME years ago during my newspaper days (I am a photographer sometimes journalist).

He stated that every week in the late 1950s he would get a victim whose cause of death was a mystery (before CSI) because there was no apparent signs of wounds or trauma so the cause was listed as heart attack, until one corpse came in. The man was freshly dead (no rigor) and when the examiners placed the body on the table they noticed blood and a very small wound in his chest near his arm pit.

The way the icepick was used was that it remained hidden in the palm of the hand and then grab the intended victim in a bear hug, administering the "pick" through the ribs and into the heart/lung area. If done right (and there were many men & women in the "old days" that were that deadly) no body would be the wiser.

kjeff50cal

[flatdog]

Straight razors were carried as previously stated due to availability and a plausible legal reason to have on your person, plus the fear factor. "He'll cut you everywhere but the bottom of your feet, and if you raise them up he"ll get them too."

But most importantly they don't reliably stop fights. Unless major vessels are cut, typical wounds are superficial and only felt as a burning sting. If they are felt at all until things calm down. It's real hard to tell the winner from the loser if both go at it with razors.

One old tactic was a slash to the forehead just above the eyes. The idea being to cause blood to gush into the opponents eyes blinding him.

Another thing, straight razors have a nasty habit of becoming auto openers in your pocket.

[joab]

The way the icepick was used was that it remained hidden in the palm of the hand and then grab the intended victim in a bear hug, administering the "pick" through the ribs and into the heart/lung area. If done right (and there were many men & women in the "old days" that were that deadly) no body would be the wiser.I still have my grandfathers old car carry icepick.
I had forgotten about it. Dad says granddad carried it n his car for as long as he can remember until he died. My father inherited the old fairlane and I got the icepick somehow along with the blackjack and later the shotgun from the trunk.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v14/bugman/Picture024.jpg
If you remember the movie Gladiator what you describe is basically what Ceaser did to Russel Crowe before their fight in the arena.

This thread is bringing up some long forgotten childhood memories
Thank you to the OP

[carpettbaggerr]

Too brittle. The edges can crack even with normal use, and a razor will shatter like glass if dropped on a hard surface.

:uhoh:

[ocelot777]

Carpetbaggerr:


I have a razor, but mine is a "dissecting" or "sectioning" razor -- used by biologists and anatomists for cutting up dead animals or cutting slices of plants for microscopy.

They can be obtained quite cheaply from surgical instrument suppliers or scientific equipment supply houses. The blades are hollow ground on one side only, with the other side flat like a chisel-ground knife (they come in right- and left-hand versions, depending on which side is hollow ground). These razors are a bit tougher and less prone to chipping than shaving razors and can be made very sharp indeed, but edge retention is not great, for obvious reasons.


not all razors are brittle; especially not dissecting razors, which are specifically intended to cut up human bodies.

[loandr.]

Rob Dalton Auto Hells Razor....shaving sharp and built like a tank.

Loandr.

[MICHAEL T]

Keep the Razor If steel required I'll use my Bowie or my CS R-1. I can slash ,chop and stick with them Plus I have reach over razor.

[loandr.]

totally agreed...a small to med. fixed blade is ideal, still neat to explore diff. options IMHO just cause...although wouldnt actually advocate for SD for SEVERAL reasons.
Loandr.

[mp510]

Please delete this post. I mis-typed it.

[mp510]

In many areas, razors are considered to be dangerous/ deadly weapons and most of those places forbid people to carry them, unless they obtain an aprpriate permit.

And, even if they were legal, you would probably want to avoid carrying one, since they are non-locking, and a non-locking knife does not make an optimum defensive implement due to the fact that the blade can move when you don't want it to. You would be better with some sort of lock back knife it legal.

Of course, I will admit that in my "watch pocket" I have a non-locking Buck 3 blade stockman 24/7, but that's for utility not defense. I have "tactical" knives for that!