Another armed incursion on U.S.-Mexico border


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Desertdog
February 3, 2006, 12:07 AM
I think it is time for the U.S. Military to start patrolling th border with Mexico. If the Canadian mlitary start crossing the border, patrol there also.

Another armed incursion on U.S.-Mexico border
'It is disgraceful that American citizens live under the threat of a foreign army'
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48636


An American law enforcement officer and news crew in Texas have witnessed another armed incursion into the United States by men dressed in Mexican army attire, the second such incident in just two weeks.

As before, several men dressed in Mexican military garb appeared to violate the international boundary, in Hudspeth County, Texas, some 50 miles east of El Paso, local affiliate KFOX-TV reported today. There, the U.S.-Mexico border is separated only by a shallow stretch of Rio Grande River.


The incursion was witnessed by a KFOX news crew and Hudspeth County deputy, photos of which are posted on the affiliate's website.

The deputy and news crew were on the scene Tuesday night to film a segment about last week's incursion, when the law officer noticed more "soldiers" emerge from a clearing on the U.S. side of the border.

As the deputy and news crew watched, three soldiers emerged into the clearing before one hurried back into the concealment of brush, KFOX reported. But the deputy pointed out other, larger groups of soldiers engaged in a flanking action against him and the news crew, most probably, the deputy believes, in an attempt to figure out what they were doing.

"They are doing the classic thing, flanking around each side of us and actually coming up into the U.S. and trying to figure out what we are doing; they are looking at us very heavily," said the deputy, who was not identified in the report.

At that point KFOX reporter Ben Swann asked, "So I guess it's time to go?" and the deputy answered, "Yeah, it would definitely be time to get out of here."

The deputy chose to vacate the area because he was vastly outnumbered and outgunned, the report said.

Mexican officials have said their military is forbidden from traveling within three miles of the border, though U.S. border residents have repeatedly spotted mobile patrols of Mexican military units traversing roads that run directly parallel to the international boundary. Because of the stated policy, however, Mexico says the armed men crossing into the U.S. are paramilitary forces loyal to drug-smuggling cartels.

In last week's incident, Texas law enforcement officers and Border Patrol agents engaged in an armed standoff with Mexican military personnel and drug smugglers just inside the United States along the Rio Grande. The Inland Valley Daily Bulletin of Ontario, Calif., reported that both Texas law enforcement and the FBI stated nearly 30 American agents were part of the incident.

Chief Deputy Mike Doyal of the Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department told the paper Mexican military Humvees were towing what appeared to be thousands of pounds of marijuana across the border into the United States.

Border Patrol agents called for backup after seeing that Mexican Army troops had several mounted machine guns on the ground more than 200 yards inside the U.S. border near Neely's Crossing.

The deputy involved in this week's incident said he identified what appeared to be a military vehicle partially concealed in brush near the Mexican "soldiers."

"It's been so bred into everyone not to start an international incident with Mexico that it's been going on for years," Doyal told the Bulletin. "When you're up against mounted machine guns, what can you do? Who wants to pull the trigger first? Certainly not us."

Andrea Simmons, a spokeswoman with the FBI's El Paso office, confirmed the earlier incident, saying, "Bad guys in three vehicles ended up on the border. People with Humvees, who appeared to be with the Mexican army, were involved with the three vehicles in getting them back across."

Chris Simcox, president of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a border watch group that assists authorities in securing the border, said with the latest incident "the government of Mexico once again has demonstrated their contempt for the United States."


"It is disgraceful that American citizens, including law enforcement, live under the threat of a foreign army that enters our country at will," he added. "It took the murder of 3,000 Americans on American soil for the government to take international terrorism seriously. With the Mexican army, drug smugglers, human traffickers and terrorists able to cross our borders with impunity, it seems that only the mass murder of Americans living on our border will cause the government to take decisive action to secure our borders."

In comments to KFOX, the deputy involved in this week's incident said, "If it's going to take a bunch of us getting killed down here on the river to show everybody that this is a problem, then its going to happen, one of these days it will happen."

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hillbilly
February 3, 2006, 12:17 AM
Here's an El Paso TV station's story on this mess.


http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=4449500






02.02.06
Deputy: Things "getting personal" after Border Incursion; Families, Officers Threatened
Feb 2, 2006, 06:26 PM CST Email to a Friend Printer Friendly Version





EL PASO, TX. - According to law enforcement officials directly involved in the border incursion two weeks ago, the cross-border confrontations are "getting personal."

The confrontation started ten days ago with drug smugglers trying to bring illegal drugs across the border in SUV's east of El Paso. Mexican authorities have now removed the SUV that got stuck in the Rio Grande and was torched by men in military uniforms on January 23rd.

While there are few signs remaining of last week's standoff, matters are anything but calm in Hudspeth County. According to law enforcement officials, things are escalating on the border in Hudspeth County.

During a ride-along Thursday with the Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department, one deputy, who has been with the department since the 1960's, told ABC-7 that this is the most tense matters have ever been along this area of the border.

In the past few days, Hudspeth County Sheriff's Department deputies and their families have received threats to stay off the Rio Grande. Sheriff Arvin West told ABC-7 Thursday morning, before departing for Houston that the Mexican military is behind all of this.

Sheriff West said, "There is no doubt in my mind -- from the first time going back to a couple of years ago and every time in between --- it's the Mexican military. In a nutshell, everybody's been trying to tell everybody that they were here...they've been here ...[and] they come here quite often, regularly."

Now Sheriff West is having to deal with threats being made against his deputies and their families. One Sheriff's Deputy, who refused to appear on camera out of fear, described the situation today in Hudspeth County as "very dangerous." and now, he said, "it's getting personal."

The deputy added that "he is very leery of a firefight erupting on the border just east of El Paso."

Standing Wolf
February 3, 2006, 12:21 AM
Mexico says the armed men crossing into the U.S. are paramilitary forces loyal to drug-smuggling cartels.

I'd be hard-pressed to tell you which I find most despicable: Mexico, the druggies, or the U.S. administration that's done precisely nothing to secure our nation's borders.

BigRobT
February 3, 2006, 12:22 AM
Once on US soil, they have committed an act of war. Shoot them !!! Get our troops down there NOW!!! It's bad enough that the US Taxpayer foots the bill for most of the illegals medical, college, and whatever else they can suck off of us, but Mexico's Army refuses to cease entering our country ?? Ummm, all I can say is.......... "Remember the Alamo!!!"

Standing Wolf, you can thank Reagan, Bush41 and Clinton for letting it get as far as it has. Mainly Reagan.

cracked butt
February 3, 2006, 12:26 AM
Its time to do away with the NFA and have CMP sell Ma Deuces to Texans on the border- about $500 a piece should be about right.;)

Sindawe
February 3, 2006, 12:30 AM
Now thats just plain untrue Standing Wolf! The U.S. Administrations have been good LOTS about the mess on our borders. Unfortunately for us the Citizens of this Republic, what the Administrations have been doing involves the use of wool, its application to our eyes, and a major north flowing river in Egypt. :fire: :fire: :fire:

fourays2
February 3, 2006, 09:35 AM
GWB assures us we have nothing to fear, these people have good family values and only want to come here to do the jobs that Americans won't.:rolleyes:

WT
February 3, 2006, 10:48 AM
Where are the Texans? Why aren't they repelling the Mexican Army?

Sam Houston and the 200 Defenders of the Alamo must be rolling in their graves.

Lupinus
February 3, 2006, 10:50 AM
Next a BP, deputy, civilian, whatever is going to get killed. Wonder what GW will do then, maybe send flowers:rolleyes:

Manedwolf
February 3, 2006, 10:52 AM
How about moving some of the A-10's to a base down there for flight practice, patrol flights and such? That's a good deterrent.

They interviewed one captured Taliban who said that the sound that they feared most in the mountains was the scream of a diving A-10 (they do that awesome banshee wail) because it meant death was coming.

Damn right.

TexasRifleman
February 3, 2006, 10:52 AM
Where are the Texans? Why aren't they repelling the Mexican Army?

Sam Houston and the 200 Defenders of the Alamo must be rolling in their graves.


Travis and his friends didn't have to worry about the US Army fighting alongside of Santa Anna.

They did what they did because the believed help was coming.

There's no help coming this time......

Lupinus
February 3, 2006, 10:59 AM
Travis and his friends didn't have to worry about the US Army fighting alongside of Santa Anna.

They did what they did because the believed help was coming.

There's no help coming this time......
Sure there is, just happens to be for the other side. See what happens if some Texans finally get PO'ed enough and shoot a few Mexicans who come across in military uniform. Sure wont be praise or backup, it'll be swat with an arrest warrent.

belton-deer-hunter
February 3, 2006, 11:05 AM
well luckly in texas i saw an ad on tv this morning i have to do some more research but van taylor looks to be a good thing for congress


http://vantaylor.com/

TrekkieFromHell
February 3, 2006, 11:10 AM
Personally, I think the reason why the texans aren't shooting back is because nobody really lives right where they are doing this. 50 miles east of El Paso is just a few small towns. The mexicans that are crossing do it away from people so they don't get noticed most of the time. Now if they were to actually try to cross at places other than checkpoints in El Paso with their big shipments of drugs and/or people... That would be a big mistake on their part.

However, thats just my opinion from what I've observed.

Now check out the New Mexico border to the south... There is nothing out there. Real easy to get accross.

The Real Hawkeye
February 3, 2006, 11:25 AM
The States need to call up their militias to patrol the boarder. Next step is to shoot these folks dead, hang them by their feet, photograph their faces and show them to el presidente demanding that he identify whether or not they are enlisted in the Mexican Army. If they are, one warning should be given. Next time it happens, we take Mexico and make it a protectorate of the United States, that is, what's left of it after we unleash the full force of American conventional arms.

TrekkieFromHell
February 3, 2006, 11:37 AM
The States need to call up their militias to patrol the boarder.

Damn right, they better do it soon. This situation is only getting worse. :uhoh:

MechAg94
February 3, 2006, 12:28 PM
Where are the Texans? Why aren't they repelling the Mexican Army?

Sam Houston and the 200 Defenders of the Alamo must be rolling in their graves.
If they march on San Antonio or San Jacinto, we'll be there. :D

Hawkmoon
February 3, 2006, 12:31 PM
What bothers me perhaps most about this is, if various officials KNOW that there are Mexican machine gun emplacements constructed on our side of the border, and they apparently know where they are ... why hasn't someone sent an armed patrol of either Army or National Guard combat engineers out there to dismantle the things, and bring 'em back as evidence.

Oops ... I think I just answered my own question. Nobody in authority wants any part of the 'e' word.

longeyes
February 3, 2006, 12:33 PM
If Americans get killed in any number along the border in the skirmishes to come and the Feds don't respond with peremptory force Bush can kiss his Presidency goodbye. This is visceral stuff. Even the hard Right will be crying for impeachment.

pete f
February 3, 2006, 01:52 PM
Lets stop the evil word games that these people are her t odo jobs that americans do not want. this is untrue. They are here to work at WAGES that americans do not want. Before the flood of illlegals, an american would work at a factory job or service job because they got paid enough to make a living at it. Framers ( construction crews) used to be a job you could make a living at. Now, mexicans are taking these jobs ( and doing a horrible job of it) not at 25 to 27 dollars an hour. but at 7 to 8 dollars and hour. That is 14 to 16K a year. same with Roofers and Drywallers. Same with packing house crews, assembly workers. too many workers, means wages fall, and so does productivity, which means net price really does not change, but it is hard to convince some MBA's that paying a guy 19 bucks an hour is smarter than paying him 8 bucks an hour. no matter that the 19 buck and hour guy makes 4 times as much product.

Block the borders, deport the illegals and watch wages and jobs for your KIDS exist that will support a family.

progunner1957
February 3, 2006, 02:27 PM
"When you're up against mounted machine guns, what can you do?"

One word: AIRSTRIKE.:D :D
Its time to do away with the NFA and have CMP sell Ma Deuces to Texans on the border- about $500 a piece should be about right.
That will work nicely, too.

The Real Hawkeye
February 3, 2006, 02:46 PM
Lets stop the evil word games that these people are her t odo jobs that americans do not want. this is untrue. They are here to work at WAGES that americans do not want. Before the flood of illlegals, an american would work at a factory job or service job because they got paid enough to make a living at it. Framers ( construction crews) used to be a job you could make a living at. Now, mexicans are taking these jobs ( and doing a horrible job of it) not at 25 to 27 dollars an hour. but at 7 to 8 dollars and hour. That is 14 to 16K a year. same with Roofers and Drywallers. Same with packing house crews, assembly workers. too many workers, means wages fall, and so does productivity, which means net price really does not change, but it is hard to convince some MBA's that paying a guy 19 bucks an hour is smarter than paying him 8 bucks an hour. no matter that the 19 buck and hour guy makes 4 times as much product.

Block the borders, deport the illegals and watch wages and jobs for your KIDS exist that will support a family.Your analysis is correct. Now, if you and I can figure that out, don't you think the George Bush team has also? They know perfectly well what their policy of open boarders, along with other policies, is doing to America. It's their goal. You see, things need to get so bad that we will be happy for any solution. The solution they will eventually offer us is a merger of the United States with Mexico, Canada and the rest of the hemisphere into one super nation, similar to what they are in the process of hammering out in Europe right now. Our national Constitution will then be no more authoritative than our current State Constitutions, and you can forget about the Second and Fourth Amendments surviving the transition. The new union will have its own Constitution which will take the place of the US Constitution as the highest law of the land. All this that we are seeing now has been engineered to destroy us as a viable independent nation for the purpose of weakening our resolve against joining a multinational union, to which we will transfer all essentials of our national sovereignty.

wingman
February 3, 2006, 03:09 PM
All this that we are seeing now has been engineered to destroy us as a viable independent nation for the purpose of weakening our resolve against joining a multinational union, to which we will transfer all essentials of our national sovereignty.
__________________


Bingo:

cordex
February 3, 2006, 03:35 PM
Mexican officials have said their military is forbidden from traveling within three miles of the border, though U.S. border residents have repeatedly spotted mobile patrols of Mexican military units traversing roads that run directly parallel to the international boundary. Because of the stated policy, however, Mexico says the armed men crossing into the U.S. are paramilitary forces loyal to drug-smuggling cartels.
So it's okay with you guys if we interdict them with overwhelming, then?
Right-o.

pete,
too many workers, means wages fall, and so does productivity, which means net price really does not change, but it is hard to convince some MBA's that paying a guy 19 bucks an hour is smarter than paying him 8 bucks an hour. no matter that the 19 buck and hour guy makes 4 times as much product.
The whole "Quadrupling the cost of labor makes business sense because an AMERICAN who gets paid four times more will be at least four times as productive than a MEXICAN." thing doesn't work so well outside of union meetings. However, if you think it's true, start a business and pay your laborers four times as much as anyone else is. If you're right, you should make a killing.

You might be right that if you were paid four times the going rate to do a job that you'd do it better than someone willing to work for less, but in almost every case, I highly doubt it'll make real business sense to do it your way. If it did, those "stupid" MBAs would be all over it, just to limit the liability, turnover issues and so forth that is brought about by hiring four times as many laborers.

Correia
February 3, 2006, 03:45 PM
This thread is drifting mighty bad. I'm missing how armed border incursions by drug smugglers has anything to do with the whole union job thing. Please keep this on topic for THR.

And cordex, you should know better than to interject fundamental business or economic reasoning into a discussion like this. Those American union workers are worth so much more. Just look at our super profitable and efficient unionized US auto industry. The guys that sweep the floor shavings make $67 an hour. But they are AMERICAN!

Damn, now I'm guilty of thread drift.

wingman
February 3, 2006, 05:47 PM
And cordex, you should know better than to interject fundamental business or economic reasoning into a discussion like this. Those American union workers are worth so much more. Just look at our super profitable and efficient unionized US auto industry.

Please also consider the CEO who is pulling down millions per year plus stock,is he worth it, does it add to the cost of a car. Many companies who make good profits without unions have decided to ship jobs to other countries why, because they want more profit with total disregard to this country or it's people.

Eco. 101 has nothing to do with the hiring of illegals it is simply greed, money is pocketed by the employer not passed on to the consumer. Adding to this is the taxpayer is subsidizing cheap labor for the employer and receiving an inferior product in many cases.

When we talk of profit, unions, illegal labor, we should also consider where our country is going, what type of life do we want, do we want a high standard of living, medical, pensions, good schools, certain amount of freedom. Can we do this with the continued loss of manufacturing jobs. In my opinion no, I also have concern with the idea in our society that any profit is good no matter who it harms. :(

Kodiaz
February 3, 2006, 06:22 PM
I say let's have a big 2A shooting event on the border in the gun friendly states.

I think that will provide all the overwhelming firepower needed.

garyk/nm
February 3, 2006, 07:46 PM
Aren't National Guard units ostensibly under the control of State governors? Couldn't a concerned governor mobilize his Guard units if he/she so desired?
Doesn't seem like the Feds are really necessary.
Oh, that's right, the Feds are claiming a lock on all matters of National Security.
Enforced by threat of cutting off funding. Can't have that, now, can we?

What I don't understand, is why NM and AZ govs bothered declaring a state of emergency, when they won't actually do anything?

TexasRifleman
February 3, 2006, 07:48 PM
I say let's have a big 2A shooting event on the border in the gun friendly states.

I think that will provide all the overwhelming firepower needed.

It might raise some eyebrows huh? Move Knob Creek to Laredo, TX?

Interesting idea.....

GoRon
February 3, 2006, 07:49 PM
We need a guest worker program.

If we seal the borders the economy will be effected and prices will go up, way up.

We have outlawed capitalism and demanded a minimum wage be paid which is higher than some jobs are worth. Either that or you will be paying 15 dollars for a salad. If you can even find enough workers to do the work.

If you think it is the government or some corporations responsibility to provide you with a job at a "living" wage you are part of the problem not the solution.

We need the mexican migrant workers and we better come up with a program to let them in.

I am 100% in favor of the NG being on the border to deal with the bad guys. We need an orderly way to let the good guys in.

TexasRifleman
February 3, 2006, 07:52 PM
We need the mexican migrant workers and we better come up with a program to let them in.



Very true. It's not "worker" aliens that are digging tunnels and carrying bags of dope and machine guns.

Biker
February 3, 2006, 07:57 PM
We don't "need" a guest worker program, we already have all the indigenous labor we could possibly use, and if I have to pay 5 bucks a for head for lettuce, I will.
Biker

GoRon
February 3, 2006, 08:03 PM
We don't "need" a guest worker program, we already have all the indigenous labor we could possibly use

We have the lowest unemployment in the G8 and probably the whole industrial world. Todays numbers are the lowest in over 5 years.

This is with the huge glut of undocumented workers we already have. Get rid of them and its not boom town but bust town. Depression and inflation.

Biker
February 3, 2006, 08:07 PM
We have the lowest unemployment in the G8 and probably the whole industrial world. Todays numbers are the lowest in over 5 years.

This is with the huge glut of undocumented workers we already have. Get rid of them and its not boom town but bust town. Depression and inflation.
Get rid of them and the profits of big Corp and big Ag may go down because they may be forced to pay a decent wage to Americans. I can live with that.
Biker

rick_reno
February 3, 2006, 08:12 PM
Don't worry - our President has a plan and it'll be implemented by his Republican Congress in a month or two. Then we can stop discussing this "issue".

GoRon
February 3, 2006, 08:19 PM
Get rid of them and the profits of big Corp and big Ag may go down because they may be forced to pay a decent wage to Americans. I can live with that.

Great idea!

You should run for office on your five year plan for worker fairness and profit realignment.:neener:

Hawkmoon
February 3, 2006, 08:28 PM
We have the lowest unemployment in the G8 and probably the whole industrial world. Todays numbers are the lowest in over 5 years.
We have low unemployment on paper because so many people have been unemployed for so long that they are no longer collecting, no longer looking for work, and have simply disappeared from the radar.

Like me. I an now nominally a "consultant." That means if I find a gig I take it for whatever it pays, then I hope for another one before the money runs out. Usually the money runs out before the next gig arrives. But I am not officially "unemployed" ... I just don't have any income.

We don't need any more guest workers.

Biker
February 3, 2006, 08:31 PM
Great idea!

You should run for office on your five year plan for worker fairness and profit realignment.
Your pat phrases, cliches and insinuations aside, my idea *is* a great one.
;)
Biker

Kodiaz
February 3, 2006, 08:34 PM
By shooting event I don't just mean competition. I mean all of it. IPSC guys, the machine gun guys, the cannon people, skeet shooters, bullseye shooters,long range varmint guys, and on and on and on. I'm talking about ALL of us. When I say overwhelming I mean overwhelming. Hell we might scare the mexican army all the way to the bottom of Argentina.


Oh and +1 to Biker.

tom barthel
February 3, 2006, 08:38 PM
Perhaps it's time for citizens to do something. Photographs have been shown of the latest intrusion. For an untrained group to take on professionaly trained troops is suicide. Still, a few prisoners with captured equipment would be hard to deny. Of course, any action should not be taken by property owners. Recently, a ranch was given as compensation for detaining a couple of illegals in Arizona. The courts are NOT to be trusted. If you only own a 1949 buick roadmaster and one pair of shoes, the courts would probably seize everything to award to the invaders. If you plan on defending your country, you could be in serious legal trouble if you survive the fight. Still, live Mexican soldiers would attract a lot of attention. If you catch them, take them to the nearest television station.:fire: :fire: :fire:

GoRon
February 3, 2006, 08:51 PM
Armed invaders into US territory should be dispatched without prejudice by the worlds finest fighting force.

Biker
February 3, 2006, 08:54 PM
Armed invaders into US territory should be dispatched without prejudice by the worlds finest fighting force.
Not to worry; There is no doubt in my mind that Jorge Bush has a comprehensive plan that will make this entire problem go away.
Biker

Kodiaz
February 3, 2006, 08:57 PM
Biker it might be more appropiate if you refer to him as King Jorge. Actually king jorge might even be better.

GoRon
February 3, 2006, 09:01 PM
Not to worry; There is no doubt in my mind that Jorge Bush has a comprehensive plan that will make this entire problem go away.
Biker

It is amazing with the grassroots support for border control niether party will touch it with a ten foot pole.

The libertarians are even worse than the major parties.

The border is probably the one issue where there is the biggest disconnect between the average American and government policy.

Sindawe
February 3, 2006, 09:14 PM
The border is probably the one issue where there is the biggest disconnect between the average American and government policy. As my friends and I used to remark back in the late '80s, its all a Communist plot.

Kodiaz: How about "Bush the lesser"?

Kodiaz
February 3, 2006, 09:43 PM
Bush the lesser doesn't take into account all of the "Unitary executive" (king to me) machinations.


Besides after king jorge's run. I wouldn't want to sully his father's name any more by attributing it to this son.


Man you know your bad when you make Bush 1 and Slick Willie look like great leaders.

Oh well. Let me get the nomex suit I'm going to get it. :evil:

Desertdog
February 3, 2006, 11:24 PM
Aren't National Guard units ostensibly under the control of State governors? Couldn't a concerned governor mobilize his Guard units if he/she so desired?
The NG, AF, Marines and Army need training. There should be a training area of about 3 to 10 miles deep and 2000 miles long situated along the America-Mexico border. This should incude scrafing practice, artillery practie, tank trainig, the whole bit.

TexasRifleman
February 3, 2006, 11:26 PM
The NG, AF, Marines and Army need training. There should be a training area of about 3 to 10 miles deep and 2000 miles long situated along the America-Mexico border. This should incude scrafing practice, artillery practie, tank trainig, the whole bit.


Well then Mexico would protest to the UN that we were planning to invade, then the UN would vote to sanction us, then French and German troops would be sent to the border as Peacekeepers and we could just let the Mexican Army shoot at them.

Doesn't sound half bad.....

DRZinn
February 4, 2006, 03:52 AM
In the words of someone more prescient than I:

"Let's get it on and get it over with."

Rather than confront them at the border, just back off. Let them come deeper and deeper while they think no-one notices or has the guts to do anything. Then squash them.

And make sure the world sees it.

Waitone
February 4, 2006, 05:24 AM
The moonbat left is screaming impeachment. I've talked with representatives as much as one can talk with them. They insist on charges being brought based on Halliburton or WMD or some other phantom scandal. Problem is, right in their face is an impeachable offense and they want nothing to do with it. Why? Because illegal aliens are viewed as the road back to power for the moonbat party.

Me? I don't care what the parties say. I think it is time for impeachment charges be drafted centered around Bush's criminal refusal to do anything about the border. My position used to be impeach him if we get a terror hit from across the southern border. I changed my criterion to now. I think there exists sufficient cause.

What makes me sad is I am not given to wild statements. :(

gunfan
February 5, 2006, 06:12 PM
How about moving some of the A-10's to a base down there for flight practice, patrol flights and such? That's a good deterrent.

They interviewed one captured Taliban who said that the sound that they feared most in the mountains was the scream of a diving A-10 (they do that awesome banshee wail) because it meant death was coming.

Damn right.

I like it!:D Oh, Yeahhhhhhhh! Ooorah!

Scott

Old Fuff
February 5, 2006, 07:52 PM
For the record...

I am sitting about an hour's drive from the U.S./Mexican border, and the A-10's take off to play tag about 1 1/2 miles from where I sit. The other day I was peacefully going down a highway near the end of the runway when two of them suckers went in front of me, and so low I could see the pilots in the cockpits... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Now I must say they got my attention ... :what:

I suppose the good news is that they're flight time to the border is probably well under five minutes if they are really rolling - and usually they are. The not so good news is that I don't believe they are armed with anything. :fire:

But if they went over some border-jumper like the did over me, I don't think that hombre would stop until he got to Central America. :D

NMshooter
February 5, 2006, 08:01 PM
I believe a load of ammo is required to keep that plane properly balanced.

Or maybe they have a weight they put in for training flights.

The latter would not suprise me in the least.

As far as the thread topic goes, perhaps we need to encourage a new revolution south of the border.

Ensuring an outcome we could all live with, however, might be more than we could hope for.

longeyes
February 5, 2006, 08:34 PM
While we fantasize about A-10s and mini-guns our President is figuring out how to Mexicanize the Southwest with "hard-working moms and dads." This would be funny if it weren't tragic and pathetic and damn infuriating. Waitone is right: Bush is legitimately in the anteroom of impeachment--or, rather, he should be. His arrant defiance of popular citizen opinion on this matter is galling. I voted for the man and had high hopes for him; it's taken me five years to realize, fully, just how much he has led this nation off-track, on this and other critical matters.

Sam
February 5, 2006, 08:40 PM
TexasSigMan,
Those Governors declared teh "emergency' to get their hands on some extra cash.

Anywho since there are no Mexican Troops within 3 miles of the border, then if I could convince the NM and TX members into a trip south no bodies of Mexican Troops would be found within 3 miles of the border?

Sam

TexasRifleman
February 5, 2006, 08:43 PM
TexasSigMan,
Those Governors declared teh "emergency' to get their hands on some extra cash.



I'm not the one that brought that up, but you are right. That was only a money play, no real good came of it.

I'd be up for a camping trip on the Rio Grande...
I wanna bring my BAR though. It likes the river :evil:

NMshooter
February 5, 2006, 08:50 PM
Got to have that cash for railroads and other pork, I mean "important projects".:barf:

Sam, I am free every weekend.

Just give me a call...;)

Waitone
February 5, 2006, 08:58 PM
You have a genuine official US government issued BAR? <slobber, slobber, drool, drool> Pictures, I must have pictures. :p

Atticus
February 5, 2006, 09:15 PM
The whole "Quadrupling the cost of labor makes business sense because an AMERICAN who gets paid four times more will be at least four times as productive than a MEXICAN."

From what my friends in the construction industry tell me - the exact opposite is true.

TexasRifleman
February 5, 2006, 09:20 PM
You have a genuine official US government issued BAR? <slobber, slobber, drool, drool> Pictures, I must have pictures. :p

Check your PMs.

wingman
February 5, 2006, 09:32 PM
I voted for the man and had high hopes for him; it's taken me five years to realize, fully, just how much he has led this nation off-track, on this and other critical matters.


Same here.

fantacmet
February 5, 2006, 10:00 PM
This is actually quite par for the course. It happens constantly. We actually have private citizens who have been killed by Mexican soldiers for asking them to get off their private land. Yet we do nothing, because we are scared to go to war with Mexico. In a war we would trounce Mexico within a week. Their military is all ground based. Comeon just a few air strikes and most of it would be over. Check out Ranch Rescue. Mexico is throwing fits over them, yet they've not made a single incursion onto Mexican soil. Many illegals have been killed by RR security after attacking them. Some of us have seen the consequences of U.S. Border Patrol stopping mexican illegals, they are brutal, definately NOT the sign of enlightened people trying to make a better life for themselves escaping from an oppressive government. This has got to be one of the saddest things in history.

Rev. Michael

**--Edit--**
I can tell you one thing, if I lived on the border and they wer ecrossing onto my land I'd sit in my house snipering the bastards. International incident be damned. If it cost the life of me and my family to get the country to finally take war with mexico, block the boarders and deport the illegals, then our deaths would carry an inherent nobolity, and I would be prfectly happy with that no regrets. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Lock the borders, deport the illegals, and execute all the rest who won't leave or put up a fight. Pardon the language but ???? em. I'd shoot every last one of the bastards coming onto U.S. soil, military or not. A remington 700 with a McMillan A5 stock, .300 Winchester Magnum match rounds, trued action, and a high powered scope and bipod will do a number to the skull of a mexican military man.

jeepmor
February 6, 2006, 01:23 AM
It was illegal for our minutemen to shoot at the Redcoats wasn't it? But the mexicans are bringing drugs, mexican army or not, the Bush family is quite famous for enabling drugs to enter the country.

Iran contra had something to do with this didn't it? Hmmm, Colombia's cocaine being delivered by CIA airplanes to US soil, on military bases no less. Maybe it's just more spookwork at a more local corruption level.

jeepmor

jeepmor
February 6, 2006, 01:28 AM
*--Edit--**
I can tell you one thing, if I lived on the border and they wer ecrossing onto my land I'd sit in my house snipering the bastards. International incident be damned. If it cost the life of me and my family to get the country to finally take war with mexico, block the boarders and deport the illegals, then our deaths would carry an inherent nobolity, and I would be prfectly happy with that no regrets. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Lock the borders, deport the illegals, and execute all the rest who won't leave or put up a fight. Pardon the language but ???? em. I'd shoot every last one of the bastards coming onto U.S. soil, military or not. A remington 700 with a McMillan A5 stock, .300 Winchester Magnum match rounds, trued action, and a high powered scope and bipod will do a number to the skull of a mexican military man.

Tell us how you really feel.

Manedwolf
February 6, 2006, 10:19 AM
The moonbat left is screaming impeachment. I've talked with representatives as much as one can talk with them. They insist on charges being brought based on Halliburton or WMD or some other phantom scandal. Problem is, right in their face is an impeachable offense and they want nothing to do with it. Why? Because illegal aliens are viewed as the road back to power for the moonbat party.

Me? I don't care what the parties say. I think it is time for impeachment charges be drafted centered around Bush's criminal refusal to do anything about the border. My position used to be impeach him if we get a terror hit from across the southern border. I changed my criterion to now. I think there exists sufficient cause.

What makes me sad is I am not given to wild statements. :(

Refusal to deal with the border, and the whole "breaking the law, bypassing FISA" thing. Something in TIME about bipartisan mutterings about calling for a constitutional amendment to clarify rule of law in the matter of NOT making congress irrelevant by unitary executive decisions.

If Bush keeps shoving Congress into the broom closet and posing for the photo op, he IS asking for impeachment from all the members of the right, as well, who still have a sense of personal pride.

So you have that, and you have endangering the security of the sovereign borders of the United States of America (or "th' home-laynd", as it's now become) by ignoring the illegal crossings.

longeyes
February 6, 2006, 01:20 PM
I don't expect anything to change fotr the better. I do expect to see the Democrats, and strict gun control, to become the dominant force in this nation for my remaining life time in 2008 and beyond.

That's one possibility.

Another is that the "law" will be ignored--as a lot of laws seem to be these days. There's a disconnect between the courts and the rule of law and the people that is real and growing.

Still another is the political fragmentation of these United States. Call it secession, call it whatever you want, we are not really one nation any more.

tom barthel
February 6, 2006, 04:25 PM
While I'm not suggesting anyone break any law, What would happen if someone purchased a used rifle with no papers on in and accurized it and went hunting for illegals?? If anyone were to consider such a thing, The cheap unregistered rifle could be dumped in the river after use. What would be the result of a few casulties among the invaders?? Assuming this would happen, the patriot could never boast of it or give any information out at all. If small groups of these invaders made it north of the red river, It's doubtful they would make it across going south. I'm not advocating breaking the law. Anyone who violates the U.S. constitunal rights of these illegals does so at their own risk. Of course, people who live on the border can flee north of the red river and ask for help. Help hasn't come yet. What next? Should the border residents cede their homes to Mexico. I'm easy going and generally peaceful but, if I am pushed, I WILL fight.

Use extreme caution if you plan to violate the civil rights of the invaders. Perhaps it would be better to pay them to leave you alone. Still, a shot in the dark has some advantage. I would not be surprised if the mexican army would raid an American jail to rescue one of their people. Pancho Villa wasn't the last Mexican to invade the U.S.A.:mad: :mad: :fire: :fire:

Fiddlefoot
February 6, 2006, 05:07 PM
I'm thinking these activities offer us a chance to spend a couple of days enjoying the outdoors while we *find* stuff left in the sand. I'd like to find a Hummer and a Class III machine gun. What could the BATF say about the previous owners?

Don Gwinn
February 6, 2006, 10:31 PM
It's not hard to talk about what a hard man you'd be if you lived there, but let's keep this within the realm of reality.

And let's remember that drug cartels HAVE been known to employ paramilitary forces.

insidious_calm
February 7, 2006, 07:19 PM
So I'm curious here. When an american citizen is murdered in mexico (or some other two bit 3rd world country) such as the college student from Kansas, is it an "international incident"? Seems to me it's treated as a local law enforcement matter. I don't remember any sanctions taken against that country on her behalf. :confused:

Right now where I am, if I come upon armed individuals on my property I can present arms and order them to leave. If they were to threaten me or fire upon me I could use lethal force to subdue the threat. How does it become different if the offender is a citizen of another country? As far as I can see the ranchers should just order them to leave and kill anyone who presents a threat. If someone could please explain how or why this is an "international incident" I would appreciate it.

I.C.

longeyes
February 7, 2006, 07:58 PM
Right now where I am, if I come upon armed individuals on my property I can present arms and order them to leave. If they were to threaten me or fire upon me I could use lethal force to subdue the threat. How does it become different if the offender is a citizen of another country? As far as I can see the ranchers should just order them to leave and kill anyone who presents a threat. If someone could please explain how or why this is an "international incident" I would appreciate it.

A couple of goblins is social business. Ten million on your property's a Federal matter.

An international incident is when two poobahs get together, smoke a couple of expensive cigars, and figure out how to make more money out of temporary trouble.

TexasRifleman
February 7, 2006, 08:25 PM
Right now where I am, if I come upon armed individuals on my property I can present arms and order them to leave. If they were to threaten me or fire upon me I could use lethal force to subdue the threat. How does it become different if the offender is a citizen of another country?
I.C.

Because when you do that, do you worry that 1000 of their closest "friends" with machine guns will come visit you tomorrow night and no one will help protect you?

If you lived in Laredo you might.......:cuss: :cuss:

Coronach
February 7, 2006, 08:43 PM
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