[Jamie B]

[Rant on]

I am sick and tired of reading all of these posts about CCW isues!
Since I live in OH, the odds of me partaking in CCW is, let's see..... ..oh yes......SLIM TO NONE!

At the rate this **** state is going, I will never be able to carry a weapon to protect either mysef, or my family, in the near future.

It drives me nuts reading all of these posts about weapon types, how to carry, when to carry, who carries, why they carry, etc.

Looks as if there will be no improvements in my lifetime, at the rate we are going.

At this point, all I can do is maintain s amall shred of hope that the current administration will be replaced with a more gun friendly governer, but I am not holding my breath.

I guess that I will keep reading all of these CCW posts, and burn with jealousy. Oh well!

[Rant off]

Jamie

[Pheonix]

I am with you! Bought a gun for CCW, kind of like buying a new snowblower or skiing gear and not getting enough snow for 10 years to be able to use it.:banghead:

[michiganfan]

my sympathies. Live in Michigan and have a ccw. It drives me nuts that all most everytime i go visit any relative I have to drive through Ohio and therefore no ccw. Do any of you guys know if there is a way to legally transport a handgun through Ohio in a car, so when I get to PA I can carry again.

[Lone_Gunman]

Dont despair...

There are some really good forums on gardening, flower arrangement, and needlepoint on the internet also, and I hear a lot of people from Ohio go to those instead of firearm forums.

:D

[Soap]

IIRC they are hearing a court case in the next few weeks that might get Ohio CCW.

[Jamie B]

Gardening, flower arranging and needlepoint.
Gee, I don't know why these wonderfully enriching concepts slipped by. Now, let's see if I can put these in perspective;

When I am gardening, I cannot carry a handgun UNLESS IT IS IS FULL VIEW...great!

When I am practicing my flower arranging, I can have a loaded handgun on the table next to me. I can pick it up, and walk around with it, but it had better be in plain sight! Probably need it to blow my brains out if the roses and the baby's breath do not look good together, but DON'T HIDE IT ON MY PERSON.

Gee, I can even knit a holster that can be readily seen by my local law enforcement personnel, but it can NOT BE HIDDEN UNDER MY SHIRT.

OH YEAH, I FEEL SOOO MUCH BETTER. Thanks, lone_gunman, for cheering me up! SNARL.

Yes, Daniel, you are correct, but I believe that our governer has indicated that he will not sign the bill, even if it passes the house and senate.

Oh, yea, it's a great life in Ohio!

Jamie

[AK103K]

There is always the alterative, carry anyway. After all, the CCW is really just a "learners permit" that lets you leagally carry without much in the way of repercussions if caught. If you dont have the permit, even more reason not to get caught. One of the downsides of CCW is, its just another form of registration. Once things digress to the point of either the laws totally remove your rights or martial law is imposed,(and we allow either)you will have carried enough to be comfortable enough to stand in the Chief of Police's office with ten cops around you and not break a sweat. :) I still havent figured out how any of these "Laws" can override our rights to carry a gun if we wish, however we wish. Think about this quote "If a law curtails your liberties, there can be no justice under the law". Sounds about right to me, and just what you can expect. Maybe if we "ALL" stood up and told them to "F*** OFF" we would be the free people we claim we are.

[sctman800]

I know how you feel, and then some. I figure I have even less chance of CCW since I live in Illinois, My only realistic hope is that gun owners in this state realize they have to vote like gun owners. Of course I should qualify this with the fact the Republican was no friend of the gun owner either. IMO as a gun owner the choice was a DemocRAT "F" or a Republican "D-" and the "F" got in. Jim.

[Jamie B]

Michiganfan-

Yes, you can carry a handgun in a car in OH if the gun is not 'ready at hand'.

This means that you have to have the gun in a case in the trunk, and the ammo in the glovebox. I always throw a gun in the back of the car when I am traveling-common sense, I guess! Actually, I have the gun and ammo in the case in the trunk. Since I cannot get to the weapon while driving, I fugure that I am O.K.

Jamie

PS-Just 'cause I live in Ohio, I am NOT an Buckeye fan, and I do not adopt the Woody Hayes philosophy that everyone from Michigan is a mortal enemy! Actually, since Michigan endorses CCW, and Ohio does not, I would consider Michigan a more progressive state! FWIW.

[mrtgbnkr]

Jamie
Something to consider: Two Ohio courts have held that the current law in Ohio prohibiting CCW is unconstitutional. And the rulings were NOT based on the 2nd. The law is unconstitutional under the Ohio Constitution. The appeal is currently pending for the Ohio SC and scheduled for arguments on the 15th. Of course, they may take a year to get around to rendering a decision and writing the opinion, but with the law currently deemed unconstitutional that opens the door for carry here in the great state of Ohio. In fact, if the legislature doesn't get off their collective backsides and waits for the SC to do their thing, we will probably end up with a Vermont-style system. If you can legally possess a handgun, you can carry. In theory (if not in practice) that's the status now. The law has been struck down by 2 separate appellate courts and is now worthless. I would think that most prosecutors would not want to mess with a case of an otherwise law-abiding citizen who carried with the strength and status of the law in question.

Sorry for the length, but I say carry if you want to...the law is going bye-bye soon anyway. I know I will as soon as I pick up a gun that fits the CCW bill...my USPf is a little too large, especially with the warming weather.

Mark

[mrtgbnkr]

Section 1.04 from the Ohio Constitution: Bill of Rights

The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be kept up; and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power.

Here's the section under which the current law is being challenged...amazingly, the language is so simple and straightforward that I would be amazed if the SC decides to uphold the current law. (not that it's not possible)

Mark

[J Miller]

Jamie B,

Back to the original subject of your thread. I too get frustrated by all the CCW threads.
But for a couple of different reasons. The fact that I live in IL, and carrying concealed is a FELONY with a GO TO JAIL card attached is only part of it.
My biggest dislike for CCW threads is that 90+% of them concern very small autos.
For the most part I don't like autos, especially small ones. The only autos I like are 1911's.
Small revolvers like the Chief Special or the Detective Special are about the only ones I am intrested in.
So you can see how limited my interest is.
On the occassion where there is a thread about how to conceal a 1911 in a bikini or a Ruger BH in speedos then I'm interested. :p
Sometime before the end of this year, I'll be moving back to AZ. They have CCW and I WILL be interested then. :evil:

[gryphon]

Mrtgbnkr,

I'd be careful about any court decisions and what they say until they are FINAL. Otherwise, you are still bound under the law as it is, and a judge could/would/might exercise his options under the law, as has been the case in the past. You'd have to fight your own battle against the unjust law as well.

For anyone travelling through the state of Ohio, until a CCW law is passed, and all the kinks are ironed out, my suggestion is to put gun in trunk and ammo in the passenger compartment while traveling to another state, i.e. PA, that allows reciprocity.

If you have any other concerns of a legal matter, it is always best to seek the advice of a lawyer, as taking advice from someone who is not a lawyer can get you and the advice giver into trouble.

[mrtgbnkr]

Gryphon,
All good points. I am not an attorney and any opinions expressed are my own...follow my advice (worth what you paid for it) after doing your own research and at your own risk.

That said, I almost hope that the legislature doesn't pass the CCW proposal sitting on their desk. I think that the Ohio SC will strike down the law as it sits and we well hopefully be left with a Vermont-type situation. (hey, a guy can dream, can't he?)

Mark

[Standing Wolf]

One of the main reasons I left the People's Republic of California to return to the United States was that it infringed my inherent human right to keep and bear arms in defense of my life and property.

People who talked about CCW issues at the old FiringLine.com made me stop thinking, "Well, maybe someday..." and take action.

I live in Colorado now, and never leave home without a gun. I'm part of the reason Colorado is considerably safer than the P.R.C.

[Jamie B]

mrtgbnkr - I believe that one of the cases that you refer to took place about 1 year ago in Cincinnati, OH. I have not read the actual decision, but I believe that you are correct in that illegal CCW was held to be a violation of constitutional rights.

I do agree with gryphon's observations, though. God help the OH resident that tries to carry CCW based upon those cases - it's jail time! Not worth the risk.

Thanks for the feedback, support, etc.

Unfortunately, I compounded my CCW frustration tonight by buying a S&W 1911. Nice gun, great price, but still no way to carry it conceled!

Jamie

[gudel]

yeah, what's up with all these ccw posts? people are picky on "how" to carry, and SA or DA whether or not it's completely concealed. sheesh, just carry the damn thing and get on with it. how annoying.
living in CA doesn't really help, but it's alright for me.
oh yeah, i quit going to this general discussion forum too.

[arinvolvo]

Jeez. my heart goes out to you...ANd to think that I was whining when Nevada took a coule months to send mine in the mail.

Couldnt imagine it taking a couple of years, and not even knowing if it will EVER come!:banghead: :cuss: :fire:

[chaim]

Hey stop whining and just move. If your state doesn't have CCW than that is the only option. If you don't move you have no business whining.

Don't you just love that kind of sage advice? I'm surprised you haven't heard it yet. Usually on these kinds of threads you tend to hear it. Nevermind that you may have financial, educational, family, or religious reasons to stay where you are.

I certainly can relate. I live in MD where not only is carry illegal but now most handguns are illegal here for sale if they were made after Jan 1, 2003 due to our wonderful (:fire: ) built-in lock law.

I do hope to escape. I am trying to get into grad school next year and most are out of state (though not all in carry states- Governor's State University is in IL and Kent State is in OH). If I go to a MD school I'll be stuck here longer and if I don't get in any this first try then I'll be here while working on improving my application. I won't be able to escape due to family, financial and religious reasons (my parents and brother are here and I won't leave just on a whim, knowing the area and having contacts makes it easier to find another job if need be and Orthodox Jews tend to form close knit communities and I'm well tied in to the community here). Without a school or job already lined up elsewhere I will stick around due to strong ties to the community, friends, family and due to already knowing the area (where the decent areas to live are and where the jobs are to be found).

[MoNsTeR]

6 months ago I thought, fat chance Colorado would ever get shall-issue CCW. 1 month from now, SB24 goes into effect and we will have it! Don't give up hope.

[Jamie B]

Yes, chaim, I hear you.

Not whining, though, just iritated by the state government.
Doubt that I will leave OH, though, we have a fair amount of acreage, and I really love the sequestered area. I would rather put up with no CCW than move to an urban area populated with idiots devoid of common sense.

I just needed to vent, since every time I read a CCW post, my first thought is usually 'nuts, I wish that I had those issues'.
In the end, I stay away from areas where a prudent individual would acrry a weapon. Out on my farm, especially after seeing 2 stray pitbulls last week, I can shoot whatever and when ever I want. That freedom is something that I do not want to loose.

Hopefully, Ohio will change the CCW laws, but I am not holding my breath. Cripe, I am still waiting on DSL out here in the 'sticks!

Regards,

Jamie

[chaim]

Jamie,

Not really sure why I went on that rant. No one said to move. It is just that people so often do in these kind of threads that I guess I reacted in advance. Maybe I cut it off at the pass:D .

I totally agree and can completely relate. I am quite fed up with the lack of carry laws and with the oppressive gun laws here in MD so I understand. While I am thinking of leaving (and probably will for school) there are strong reasons for many people (including me) to stay in an otherwise bad gun situation.

[jimbo]

I live in California and share your personal frustration. But the fact is it is a fantastic time in America for freedom and the right to defend yourself and your family. The vast MAJORITY of states recognize an inalienable right to self preservation. Some more so than others. It is only in a handful of commie-dominated states like California, Jersey, Mass., etc. where we have been raped of our Constitutional rights.

Still and all, no one is holding us here under duress. It is our fault if we don't move elsewhere. More power to the rest of you and keep our Freedom alive!:)

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Jamie B-

You can thank ex-astronaunt turned U.S. Senator
John Glenn for that dubious distinction! He
has been a thorn in the side of law abiding citizens.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[foghornl]

My next vote for Gov. Booby 'flip-flop' Daft will be for 5th alternate 3rd shift sewer worker for the City of Baghdad.


Flip-flop..."I promised CCW reform for Ohio, but I changed my mind since you elected me. Phffffft:neener: "

[Boiler_G]

MOVE 1 STATE TO THE WEST!!! :D

[braindead0]

Spend your vacation time in a bordering state, mail your congresscritter and let them know that you will not be spending any more time in this state than you have to because of the laws.

I'll be vacationing this year in PA...already got my permit so I'm ready to go...

[Pheonix]

Since I live in Ohio, what states can I visit and carry without a permit?

[chaim]

Since I live in Ohio, what states can I visit and carry without a permit?

Vermont is the only state that allows CCW without a permit (though I think a couple may allow you to carry w/out a permit if it is not concealed). However, many states do grant non-resident permits. Unfortunately, many require you to have a permit in your home state but PA at least will waive that requirement if your state does not grant permits at all. Your best deal is to look at the states you actually visit and check their laws for non-permit carry or non-resident permits.

[Jamie B]

Ala Dan-

Yes, I hear you! Never figured how Glenn achieved the 'hero' status that he has. Can't stand him, don't agree with any of his positions on anything! If you look up 'gun control' in the dictionary, it says 'see John Glenn'.
'Nuff said.

Jamie

[JBhunter]

So you live in OH,

At least you can have short barrels and full auto's there. :evil:

That and you have to register (oops I meant a "safety inspection") handguns in Michigan are my only complaints.

[Mike Irwin]

I have carry permits in TWO states... :p

[blades67]

That's just mean, Mike.:evil:


Arizona may have its CCW laws amended to reduce carrying concealed without a permit from a misdemeanor to a petty crime (with a maximum $50 fine).

[Edward429451]

I carried 'constitutionally' for a lonnnng time in Ohio and never got popped. Came close a few times but quick thinking and witty rehtoric at the right time steered the conversation away from the downhill slope. YMMV.

I don't advise it, but hey, a mans gotta do what he feels is right after weighing the pros & cons...

You could always get a part time job as a security officer. This helped me immensely and even got me out of a speeding ticket with a warning. It was the tactical thigh holster, I think. Columbus cops see security officers as half brothers, or at least when I was there.

[Jamie B]

'I have carry permits in TWO states':banghead: :cuss: :fire:

Gee, thanks, Mike...I feel sooo much better!

Oh , well, it could be worse. I COULD live in MA, or the PRK!

All in all, I will continue to survive in OH.

There is the 'reasonably prudent man' syndrome in OH law, which roughly indicates that a reasonably intelligent individual would carry a concealed weapon under circumstances. I believe that in today's times that would be all the time in any area where there are people, but I think that the local judicial system would frown on such a liberal interpretation of Ohio laws.

Oh well, the saga continues.........

Jamie

[Ebbtide]

Since I live in Ohio, what states can I visit and carry without a permit?

Get a florida permit ($115.00 and can be done my mail and internet) and you can carry in every state that touches ours (except MI), plus many others.

Also, don't forget that open carry if perfectly legal here :banghead:

I think I have been folloing the Ohio CCW thing pretty close. I don't think it is going to happen. I guess my Para Carry purchase will have to wait:mad:

[Jerry Morris]

I read the whole thread and reply to most of those.

Why ask permission of the state to use a Right? I have been in the state of Ohio all of my life (nearly 53 years). When the Right seems to be needed, I used it. I ask no one for permission. No problems so far. I do not say that problems aren't possible, or likely.

Now, if a CCW permit were limited to a means of identification only and not a limit to the Right, I might consider applying for one. But, I will NOT pay for permission to use my Rights!

Quit the whine and get mad. Use your vote and your money to influence a desired outcome. Don't expect the republicrats to co-operate.

Jerry Morris

[Edward429451]

Quit the whine and get mad. Use your vote and your money to influence a desired outcome. Don't expect the republicrats to co-operate

I like your attitude! If more people were like you, we could take the K back out of Amerika. Welcome to THR, hope you rub off on some.;)

[Diesle]

Im not advising you to do anything illegal, and certainly I am a law abiding citizen....

I am stuck in a may issue state and live in a county that has a police chief that issues CCW permits to no one... I mean no one. I have considered the risk reward proposition of carrying without a permit and its really weighted towards the 'just do it' side. A first time offender would not do any jail time, would pay a nominal fine and would loose whatever gun they had on their possetion at the time of the arrest. There is the possability that a person could suffer some personal issues such as loss of work time or an angry mate and that would have to be factored into each individual case.

Now, if the handgun is properly concealed, as it should be, the odds of a person being 'made' with the peice are slim to none. Additionally, there is a little thing called the 4th ammendment and probable cause that work in favour of the person that chooses to carry illegally.

Again, I dont endorse illegal activities or do anything illegal myself. Just giving my observation on the matter...


Diesle

[mrtgbnkr]

Jamie,

There is the 'reasonably prudent man' syndrome in OH law, which roughly indicates that a reasonably intelligent individual would carry a concealed weapon under circumstances.

You are referring to the "affirmative defense" clause in the CCW ban that is currently in effect in Ohio. The problem in using the affirmative defense is that you are forced to admit to having carried in the first place, thereby negating your right not incriminate yourself with your own testimony. It also creates a "guilty until proven innocent" situation whereby you must prove that you had the right to CCW.

As for open carry in Ohio...as was pointed out by one of the justices of the OSC, open carry is legal, but admittedly, not in a car. Keeping a firearm loaded and at hand while driving is still a crime, open or concealed. So then what am I supposed to do? Strap on the holster as I leave the house, put the gun in the trunk, the mags in the glovebox, drive to the store, get the mags out of the glove box and the gun out of the trunk and back into the holster before I go in the store and the same thing on the way home?

Mark

[Ebbtide]

So then what am I supposed to do? Strap on the holster as I leave the house, put the gun in the trunk, the mags in the glovebox, drive to the store, get the mags out of the glove box and the gun out of the trunk and back into the holster before I go in the store and the same thing on the way home?

Yep.

And the same would apply if the Highway Patrol gets its' way. Except you can't let anyone see you doing it:mad:

[Thundercleese]

Hi, I'm in Illinois. Your talk of "CCW" means nothing to me. We're a hairs breadth away from having all shotguns banned (pump, over-under, whatever), period.

CCW - haha. My money is that in <= 5 years, all handguns are banned, PERIOD, in Illinois.

:(

[Jamie B]

Yup, I am also worried about a ban on handguns these days.
I have been rationalizing my accellerated handgun purchases the last year or so - I figure that I may as well get'em while I can.

WIfe is still not buying into this logic, but she has been relatively cool about it. I have picked up, let's see, about 4 in the last year.

Make hay while the sun shines!

Jamie