Accurized and Varmint AR's


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Lone_Gunman
February 6, 2006, 10:46 AM
I don't know much about these, and have never fired them. I saw a Bushmaster Varminter over the weekend that looked pretty nice. Looking on the net, it looks like RRA and Colt make accurized AR's also.

What has experience with these been like? What kind of accuracy can be expected?

Which ones are the best?

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Bartholomew Roberts
February 6, 2006, 11:10 AM
Accuracy with handloads or with factory ammo they like is on par with a bolt gun. The downside is the uber-accurate ARs are even more particular about ammo type and cleanliness to operate reliably since they generally rely on a fitted, tight bolt and a tight match chamber.

I've seen the RRA match barrels perform and shot a DPMS Varmint AR. The DPMS was deadly accurate (first 5-shot group out of it was sub-MOA with BH77gr); but then it had a 24" bull barrel, so you would kind of expect it to be. I've only seen a few of the plain jane RRA stainless steel 16" and 20" barrels perform; but I was surprised at how well they did perform. I think they represent an excellent value in a match barrel.

Dravur
February 6, 2006, 12:06 PM
I own one of these guns and as a few hundred Prairie Poodles can attest, they are freakingly accurate. I take mine to Montana 4-5 times a year and usually shoot prone at varying distances up to about 300 yards. The gun is precise and is soooo nice having that followup shot at that dastardly dog out at 300 yards that just wont run into the path of the bullet. I have consistently taken poodles at 300 yards with this gun and past that, it's probably just my bad shooting that helps me miss.

I can highly recommend the Varminter. great gun, fun to shoot and accurate as heck. but, ya gotta keep it clean and they do have a break in period you definitly want to follow

Essex County
February 6, 2006, 12:39 PM
I just sold a Stag/DPMS varminter. I liked it, and accuracy was not a problem. Other than looking cool it did nothing that my other varmit rifles would'nt do as well or better. I had great visions of unloading on running 'yotes but in reality it just doesn't work that way. Buy a Savage or whatever and save your money................Essex

waterhouse
February 6, 2006, 01:07 PM
I've got a colt accurized elite (at least I think that is what it is called). With black hills match it is very accurate.

I tend to agree with Essex . . .there is nothing I do with the Colt that I couldn't do equally well with a bolt gun, but it is sort of fun to know that I could put a lot of rounds downrange pretty quickly :D

atblis
February 6, 2006, 01:40 PM
HBARs that were under an inch. The varmint ARs should easily shoot under an inch.

and you can most definitely put a follow up shot downrange much quicker with the AR than a bolt rifle.

Lone_Gunman
February 6, 2006, 02:31 PM
Buy a Savage or whatever and save your money................Essex


Thanks, but I don't want a Savage. I want an accurized AR. Thats why I had asked about AR's and not Savages.

Jayb
February 6, 2006, 04:50 PM
http://personal.swayzee.com/jayb/AR1.jpg

100 yard target, shot off sandbags with Hunting Shack 77 grain BTHP. This target is not the "best of the day". The rifle is consistantly accurate.

http://personal.swayzee.com/jayb/77grtgt.jpg

wanderinwalker
February 6, 2006, 05:27 PM
An accurized AR is just as reliable as a standard AR, in my experience. My Armalite DCM rifle ticks along with more reliability than just about any other semi I've fired, and shoots as well as many bolt guns. I've actually drawn comments about how well the rifle shoots from experienced Palma and long-range guys at our local prone shoots.

As far as accuracy, all you need to look for is a free-float tube and a good-quality barrel. The DPMS accurized rifles are worth a look. My father's DCM upper was a hammer when it was brand new. 10 rounds, 2" at 100-yards prone, iron sighted, and that was just some generic match loads we had on hand that day! :cool:

Another one I'll vote for is an Armalite, though I do think they are a little pricier than some of the others. RRA has a good reputation as well. I believe White Oak Precision makes some varminter uppers, and Compass Lake (CLE) probably does as well. I'd personally stay away from Bushy and Colt; Colt usually commands more $$ and I've never seen an accurized Bushy with the stock trigger. I was at the range one day when one gentleman had a doubling problem with his out-of-the-box Bushy flattop. Not cool! :scrutiny:

Edited: I've never met an accurized AR with a fitted bolt or tightly fitted recievers (my Armalite and father's DPMS rattle nicely when shaken). Then again, I've never met anyone who was willing to (or stupid enough to) put out the cash for a Les Baer Ultimate AR either! ;)

redneck2
February 6, 2006, 05:55 PM
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e283/Indianaoutdoorsman/Gunpix011.jpg

Bushie Varminter AR, 24" match free-floated fluted barrel, 6.5x20 Leo scope. Load is 50 grain Nosler BT's seated to max mag length, 26.0 Varget, WW cases, Fed match primers. Shot laying prone in the snow off a bi-pod, just trying to get it sighted in for coyote hunting. Measured 125 yards with 10-15 MPH cross wind. I called the low/left on the last group (if you call 1/2" off the first two bullets in one hole a flyer) because I was shaking from the cold. The Bushie Varminter comes with a 2-stage match trigger.

Which ones are the best?

The Bushmaster is obviously the best, because that's what I've got in my safe. If the RRA had been on sale, I'd have bought it and it'd be the best. Same with Colt, DPMS, Armalite. I suspect your results depend a lot more on what you feed it and how well you operate it rather than brand.

For the longest time, I could never figure out the big deal about AR's. I still can't figure out how they shoot as well as they do. You're suppose to have a bolt action, tight lock-up, etc.

Bartholomew Roberts
February 6, 2006, 06:13 PM
An accurized AR is just as reliable as a standard AR, in my experience.

Well, my exerience with accurized ARs is limited to some custom jobs with Krieger, Douglas and Lilja barrels and a few stock match rifles like the RRA and the DPMS. The only one I've owned personally is the Lilja and while it functions nicely with 5.56mm ammo, it has expensive taste in .223 ammo and the bolt can occasionally not go into battery when it gets filthy when using .223.

Edited: I've never met an accurized AR with a fitted bolt or tightly fitted recievers (my Armalite and father's DPMS rattle nicely when shaken). Then again, I've never met anyone who was willing to (or stupid enough to) put out the cash for a Les Baer Ultimate AR either! ;)

Any White Oak or Compass Lake barrel usually comes with a matching bolt

odysseus
February 6, 2006, 07:04 PM
While not as popular, I too give a vote for Armalite as well. The NM model with the 24" SS NM barrel is pretty solid for the price.

wanderinwalker
February 6, 2006, 08:28 PM
Any White Oak or Compass Lake barrel usually comes with a matching bolt

I always thought that was just part of headspacing properly, not lapping the lugs into the barrel extension. Perhaps I've been mistaken?

As far as reliability, my Armalite eats through 5.56 ammo like no tomorrow. My match loads tend to be a little hotter than commercial .223-spec, I suspect. It has only skipped when I forgot to drench the bolt and carrier with oil. Dry AR does not equal a happy AR! :rolleyes:

Henry455
February 6, 2006, 08:36 PM
RRA 24" Varmit upper (would assume the other brands would do as well) and inexpensive WWB 45 gr. JHP. These are typical 100 yard groups:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Henry455/RRA%20Varmit%20Upper/RRAVarmitUpper003.jpg


When the stars are aligned and I do my part(same ammo):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/Henry455/RRA%20Varmit%20Upper/WWB45group.jpg

Skipper
February 6, 2006, 09:17 PM
Any that you named would serve you just fine. I've got the Bushmaster Varminter and it's a great rifle that can shoot better than I can.
Regards,
SKIP

Bartholomew Roberts
February 7, 2006, 10:19 AM
I always thought that was just part of headspacing properly, not lapping the lugs into the barrel extension. Perhaps I've been mistaken?

Fitted is probably the wrong word as I don't believe they lap the lugs into the barrel extension; but the bolts they send out with those barrels are picked to be on the tight side of headspace.

As far as reliability, my Armalite eats through 5.56 ammo like no tomorrow. My match loads tend to be a little hotter than commercial .223-spec, I suspect. It has only skipped when I forgot to drench the bolt and carrier with oil. Dry AR does not equal a happy AR! :rolleyes:

Yes. I think the basic issue is that once you burn off the lube, you start getting baked on carbon in the chamber area. On chromed chambers, the chrome makes it difficult for this to stick and a lot of it flakes off and moves to less sensitive areas even after the lube is gone. On match ARs, once the lube is gone the carbon starts to stick and with less room for buildup, you get issues sooner. You can pretty much make an AR run forevever if you keep adding lube. The extra lube will attract more gunk and make a mess; but as long as you keep adding it, it will keep running. In the case of the match chambers the extra lube seems to let gunk migrate out from the lugs so the bolt can go into battery.

Of course if you aren't shooting more than 200-300 rounds it is probably a moot point since just about any half-decent AR will do that reliably.

Lone_Gunman
February 7, 2006, 10:48 AM
Do match/varmint ARs have chrome chambers?

Skipper
February 7, 2006, 12:49 PM
As a rule, no.

SKIP

Bartholomew Roberts
February 7, 2006, 02:55 PM
Some Colt match barrels will have a chromed chamber; but not a chromed bore. Global Tactical Supply (aka Denny's Guns) sells a chromed chamber/bore Mike Rock 5R barrel.

With those two exceptions, everyone else I am aware of uses chrome-moly or stainless steel. For the most part it isn't a huge issue, most match barrels will still shoot more ammo than the average guy wants to carry with him and not have a problem. If you are running a brand spanking new match barrel through a class with a high round count (800rds a day or so), you may see some problems compared to a military barrel.

g56
February 7, 2006, 05:03 PM
Here is my home built varmint rifle, J&T upper on a Stag Arms lower receiver, 5.56mm with a 24" stainless bull barrel with a 1-8 twist, JP Rifles single stage trigger, my best 3 shot group has run under 1/4" at 100 yds, here's a 5 shot group.
http://www.pbase.com/wingman26/image/42663724.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/wingman26/image/43513209.jpg

Jon Coppenbarger
February 7, 2006, 07:50 PM
here is a example of a custom across the course match rifle.
Kreiger barrel
Narwhal custom tube with adjustible hand stop
M.A.C. front sight base
Redfield front sight with level 9changing that later this year.
bushmaster lower with custom machined bolt release in triggr guard
flat long top scope and sight well
forgot the maker of the sight base
Y/M custom modified bolt, drilled and tapped for bolt handle and lugs balance and trued.
roy dune fully adjustible stock
custom alum. rotating height check piece. It rotates to heithen or lower your face.
Paramount rear sight. Very hard to find with duel team windage knobs.
2.9 german adjustible rear iris.
jewel trigger
Other internal mods
Does it shoot? LOL

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