Colt HBAR Accuracy?


PDA






Grump
February 6, 2006, 02:40 PM
Sporadic bench AND prone w/sling testing with a preban but lugless Colt HBAR w/ 1:7 barrel has been a bit disappointing for me. What should I expect with the OEM barrel? It *is* supposed to be a match barrel and it's not chrome lined.

I'm talking with various ammos, too. USGI M193 has been okay at about 3 MOA at various distances, my reloads with 55-gr FMJBTs are usually 2.5 MOA. Next on the list have been reloads with Sierra 69-gr MKs, and Speer 52-gr HP flatbase varmint bullets. Will also test Wolf for grins & giggles.

Just put a scope on it, so the iron sights variable will be removed.

If you enjoyed reading about "Colt HBAR Accuracy?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ReadyontheRight
February 6, 2006, 03:09 PM
The 1:7 twist will probably shoot more consistently with heavier bullets.

30Cal
February 6, 2006, 03:22 PM
I got a little better out of my 1:7" HBAR, but not by much. You really need to have a float tube to know what it can really do.

Ty

Monkeyleg
February 6, 2006, 05:58 PM
I cheat because I use a scope and shoot off of sandbags. ;)

Using the Black Hills match 69 grain ammo, I get groups generally under 1 moa. Even get some nice cloverleafs.

I don't have a free-floated barrel, so it's important that I keep a consistent pressure (or lack thereof) on the forend resting on the sandbags.

I also let the barrel cool down between shots.

Lastly, I kept swapping out uppers until I found one with a barrel that outshot all the others.

Grump
February 6, 2006, 05:58 PM
Edited to add:
Thanks, Monkeyleg, we were posting at the same time and you're on target for my info request. 3-shot groups, as you mention cloverleafs?

Okay, I'll make it explicit. What kind of accuracy, measured in inches, giving number of shots in group, distance fired, and so forth.

Level 1 answers: "Better than I can shoot." "Good." "Minute-of-badguy." "I'm satisfied." "Fine." These leave me with no idea at all what you mean. One guy's fine is the next guy's terrible!:banghead:

Level 2 answers: "Better than my rack-grade M1 but worse than my Unlimited Bench gun in 6mm PPC." "No trouble killing clay pigeons on the backstop at 100 yards, standing." Okay, I can guess a bit and know what order to rank things and have some clues here, but...still not useful.

Level 3 answers: "1/2 MOA 3-shot groups at all distances I've fired from at my range, limited to 300 yards, using just about any good match bullet, and never less than 2 MOA with cheap ammo like XM193." "Always less than 1 MOA with match ammo, 3/4 with the best, and 4 MOA with Wolf." Or even "2-3 MOA with everything--even Black Hills Match stuff seems to make no difference."

Let's go for level three, please. It's the High Road. High precision in answers, maybe?

Thanks!

Edited to add: How much, if any, does a float tube help when the shots being fired are all off sandbags?

ALS
February 6, 2006, 06:59 PM
Accuracy improvement is easy and relatively inexpensive compared to other guns. Pick up The Competitive AR-15 by Glen Zediker and or The Complete Guide to AR-15 Accuracy by Derrick Martin.
Both are top books to help you get the most accuracy out of your AR-15.

Monkeyleg
February 6, 2006, 07:07 PM
Grump, I usually shoot five-shot groups. Every so often I'll get a nice cluster of three shots together.

Mine is not a match rifle. It's bone-stock except for the Millazo-Krieger trigger. That trigger made a big difference.

The best groups I got were using Federal Gold Match 69 grain ammo, but it's pricey.

If I use the South African ammo, I'm lucky to get 2 MOA.

I have all the necessary components to start working up handloads, but just haven't taken the time.

jmorris
February 6, 2006, 07:09 PM
I have a stock AR configured like yours (transition from pre to post ban?). With optics and a good rest it will put 10 inside an inch at 100yds, 5 shots inside 4 at 300. Ammo was 68gr hpbt using 748 powder (look in book for charge) and win primers.

Monkeyleg
February 6, 2006, 07:19 PM
The edit function doesn't work for me, so I should add that I shoot at 100 yards.

Grump
February 6, 2006, 07:32 PM
I have a stock AR configured like yours (transition from pre to post ban?). With optics and a good rest it will put 10 inside an inch at 100yds, 5 shots inside 4 at 300. Ammo was 68gr hpbt using 748 powder (look in book for charge) and win primers.
This one is pre-ban, just at the time when Colt lost its courage. The FS assembly is the only thing like "ban", and the lower lacks the ridge around the mag release.

Still thinking about putting a lug on it, but I can't see paying $100 for a fairly ordinary knife with a fancy scabbard-lug makes no sense without a bayonet, now, does it?

Kramer Krazy
February 7, 2006, 10:33 AM
I have no real idea what my 1990 Colt HBAR will do.....I "once" did a 3/4", 3-shot group at 100 yards off a sandbag in the prone position with iron sights, but I've only done it once....ever. I usually shoot 100 yrds with iron sights and either a sandbag or bipod, and if I can shoot 8" or smaller groups, I'm happy. I can't see hitting less than 8" consistantly with it the way I shoot, as the front sight is practically as wide as the whole target. I'd have to put a scope on it to get a better feel for what it is capable of doing. I have been thinking of getting one of those National match front sights for it, as they are a little narrower than stock, and may halp me bring my groups in a little more.

elric
February 7, 2006, 11:13 AM
OK, here's my "level 3" description of how mine does:

My early 90s Colt R6700CH HBAR (1:9 though, not 1:7) shoots very well at 100 yards when I do this:

Remington Nickel .223 Case, sorted by weight. LC cases grouped by year do well also, when sorted by weight.
Berger 60gr HP
Seat bullet to just off the rifling (too long to fit in magazine, have to load one at a time)
Leupold 36x benchrest scope
Hart rifle rest and rabbit ear rear sandbag
"Accuwedge" in lower receiver
Rifle is otherwise stock, even the factory trigger

I can get 5 shot groups pretty consistently in the .40-.49" range (if no wind), and some into the upper .3s".
Probably be more consistently in the .3"s with a good trigger.

Cheap factory ammo like the Winchester white box 62gr shoots around 2-2.5 MOA
Remington Match 62gr HP shoots around 1 +/- MOA

AZ Jeff
February 7, 2006, 01:11 PM
Sporadic bench AND prone w/sling testing with a preban but lugless Colt HBAR w/ 1:7 barrel has been a bit disappointing for me. What should I expect with the OEM barrel?
Are you using a sling with the standard handguard arrangement for the HBAR, or do you have it modified to use a full-floating handguard?

I ask because any major amount of sling pressure on a standard HBAR WILL bend the barrel enough to upset the accuracy of the rifle.

For a standard HBAR, no sling pressure (or very light sling pressure) will yield MUCH better results than cranking into the sling and holding hard.

Grump
February 7, 2006, 06:15 PM
No float tube. Hey, I shot the M16A1 (yeah, really light barrel) at the SAFS at Camp Perry and got a handle on how much sling pressure to use, and the importance of consistency. Similar prone lessons shooting ISU/UIT smallbore rifle, where the 50-foot 10-ring is a dot smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. Cleaned a few of those, too.

So, I would expect LESS sling pressure effects in prone using an HBAR!

I pose this question because even the bench testing has been disappointing. NO sling pressure at all.

Is anyone here telling me that I'll se an improvement in bench accuracy with a float tube?

AZ Jeff
February 7, 2006, 06:33 PM
No float tube. Hey, I shot the M16A1 (yeah, really light barrel) at the SAFS at Camp Perry and got a handle on how much sling pressure to use, and the importance of consistency. Similar prone lessons shooting ISU/UIT smallbore rifle, where the 50-foot 10-ring is a dot smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. Cleaned a few of those, too.

So, I would expect LESS sling pressure effects in prone using an HBAR!

I pose this question because even the bench testing has been disappointing. NO sling pressure at all.

Is anyone here telling me that I'll se an improvement in bench accuracy with a float tube?
Understood. I would expect some SMALL improvements with a float tube, but not major ones. I would guess your average HBAR should be able to turn in 1-2MOA with decent ammo on a bench.

If you enjoyed reading about "Colt HBAR Accuracy?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!