[Bonker]

Mohammed needs us !!!

This is a petition for the guy who risked his family to save Jessica Lynch. The Marine who started it wants to get the 5 year waiting period for citizenship waived for this man. I think he deserves a little special treatment and I signed!

Here's the article:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31941

And here's the petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/POWHELPR/petition-sign.html?

[jmbg29]

15,031 so far.

[Lone_Gunman]

No way, no way.

What he did might have been an honorable thing, or alternatively it might have been the self serving work of someone who knew his government was over, and now its time to make friends with the new leaders...

I think the rules for becoming a citizen are in the Constitution... And I dont think telling the Marines where a POW is located qualifies as a way of fast-tracking our law, especially when we have non-citizens in our own military, risking their own lives on a daily basis.

[riverdog]

I agree with Lone_Gunman, a Green Card for Mohammed and his family should be plenty. There's one group raising a bunch of cash and a group in W. VA. who will take him as a neighbor. A Green Card would make it reality and then he could go for U.S. citizenship on the normal timeline.

[Lone_Gunman]

I wouldn't even give him a green card, unless he goes through the normal channels.

If he is an honorable man, then Iraq would be better served by him staying there, and rebuilding it into a nation where freedom and human rights are high priorities.

If all the good men of the world move to the USA, then the rest of the world becomes bad by default.

[XLMiguel]

Any one ask him if he wants to come here? He's apparently a stand-up guy, and many of his type are needed n Iraq now. Don't get me wrong, if he wants to come, I'm not against helping him out, but if he's inclined to stay and help make Iraq a better place, I'm all for it.

Giving him & his family some short term shelter and cover certainly makes sense, but for how long - it's not clear that he's a political refugee. He may emerge as a local hero, a guy 'that did the right thing', and maybe become a force for good in the neighborhood.

[LawDog]

I think the rules for becoming a citizen are in the Constitution...

On-line copy of the Constitution here: http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/constitution.html

No mention of waiting periods for citizenship anywere in that document that I can find. Maybe you'll be able to find them.

LawDog

[Lone_Gunman]

Nope, I cant find them either LawDog, but there is a required period of legal residence in the US before application for citizenship, and I would see no reason why this fellow should be an exception.

Is there any reason to believe he even wants to be a US citizen?

[Jim March]

Chalk me up in the "green card is adequate" school. If he wants to come. If so, I hope he does become a citizen on schedule.

I think there's a long-term benefit to rewarding people who help us in some major way - makes it more likely to happen again. That outweighs the downside of pulling a clearly good guy out of Iraq.

If he chooses not to come, some other reward (probably financial) should be given. About $50k oughta do it - that's double what Saddam's been paying Palestinians who blow themselves up :rolleyes: and should set him up just fine.

Let's remember: the guy didn't just bring info, he volunteered to go back and get MORE, which was key to the success of the whole mission. That is *valuable* as hell and deserves appropriate compensation.

[LawDog]

Is there any reason to believe he even wants to be a US citizen?

Nope. And there aren't any reasons to believe the opposite, either.


Nope, I cant find them either LawDog, but there is a required period of legal residence in the US before application for citizenship, and I would see no reason why this fellow should be an exception.

USC: Title 8, Chapter 12, sec. 1427 does list an exception for the requirement of legal residence: any alien who has made extraordinary contributions to US intelligence activities.

Finding US Prisoners of War is a "US intelligence activity".

Does the contribution of Mr. Mohammed fall under the heading of "extraordinary"?

IMNSHO, under wartime conditions, in defiance of a regime that regularly doled out torture, rape and execution for far lesser deeds, and directly under the nose of Saddam's tin-plate Gestapo, not just once, but multiple times -- hell, yes.

At the very least, Mr Mohammed (and family) is deserving of asylum in the United States, under USC: Title 8, Chapter 12, section 1158.

LawDog

[Marko Kloos]

The required waiting period for a legal US Permanent Resident (Green Card holder) to be eligible for citizenship is 5 years, or 3 years if the Green Card was obtained by marriage and the GC holder is still married to the same citizen.

Citizenship must be requested with Form N-400, which costs $260 to file and has a processing time of 6-12 months.

I'd have no issues with a Green Card for the guy, but let him wait in line just like everyone else for citizenship.

[dev_null]

You guys are harsh. Here's a man who risked his life, and that of his wife and kid, walking miles back and forth to get the US the intel needed to free PFC Lynch, and he's sitting in a refuge camp somewhere. He's supposed to eat his ration and be thankful while Ms Lynch gets a tickertape parade and whatnot?

Least we can do is offer him a nation's gratitude, I say, in the form of the option of citizenship -- honorary if he prefers. Either that or offer him a position in the provisional government if he so chooses.

-0-

[riverdog]

I've read a number of articles regarding Mohammed and I recall reading that he would like to move. From all appearances, he and his wife are both intelligent, upstanding people who took a risk and did the right thing -- that won't be overlooked by the military in Iraq. It's his call and he may decide to stay in Iraq, but he'll always be looking over his shoulder.

[Lone_Gunman]

Well, looks like the majority here is in favor of letting this guy in; maybe I was harsh earlier...

Heck, I guess we might as well let him in, the floodgates are open already, what will one more hurt?

Plus, this one is a lawyer, and our country is in dire need of more of them anyway.

[Sir Galahad]

Mohammed is a better American ALREADY than most of the embarassing and shameful "Americans" that call themselves "celebrities" and were born here. It will be to this nation's shame if we do not show appropriate gratitude for what this man did for our nation. In my family, when a good stranger saves your kin's life, you set a place at the supper table for that man and call him friend. This man and his family deserve to be citizens. Some folks forget he didn't just risk his life, but also the life of his wife and child.

[dev_null]

Well spoken, sir knight. Wench, a flagon of mead for the gentleman!

-0-

[Lone_Gunman]

A better American?

He is not an American at all!

He did the right thing, to be sure, by helping with the POW extraction, but that does not equate into being an American.

He might be a helpful, considerate, moral person, but this does not make him an American.

[HABU]

A Green Card would make it reality and then he could go for U.S. citizenship on the normal timeline. Or he could just join the military and subvert the process. :rolleyes:

[Standing Wolf]

Normal channels. Doing the right thing isn't worth bonus points.

[Gray Peterson]

Normal channels. Doing the right thing isn't worth bonus points.

This isn't Serbia here. This is Iraq pre-Saddam's overthrow. The torture techniques done by is regime is rather well known. "Doing the right thing" is a death sentence.

[LawDog]

And, unless I'm mistaken, a lot of the lower-level functionaries/neighbors/government officials in post-Saddam Iraq are going to be the same guys holding the same jobs in Saddam's Iraq.

Oh, well. Letting those who tried to help us fend for themselves is a Grand Old Tradition for the United States in that neck of the woods.

After all, those who tried to help us before, answered our call and all that, were left twisting in the wind with their squishy parts hanging out for the knacker -- so old Mohammed should have known better, right?

His own fault, really, doing a favour for a people who betrayed anyone doing the same thing to torture, rape and death 10 years ago.

Thank some of y'all for reminding of that. Forgot where I was for a second, forgive me, won't happen again.

LawDog

[JohnBT]

I say we give them dual citizenship whether they want it or not.

John

[Navy joe]

Or he could just join the military and subvert the process.

Ah yes, all those foreign nationals that join the military to learn first hand about what it means to be an American, serve a country that is not wholly theirs, endure constant xenophobic wisecracks from less enlightened comrades, all while getting crappy pay they think is good and defending your right to say such dumb things.

I suppose the Marine that was posthumously given citizenship subverted the process too?

[Sir Galahad]

Lone Gunman:

Being an American is more than being born in this nation. I have met people who are American citizens that I wouldn't turn my back on for exactly one second. Does that mean I think Mohammed embodies more of what it means to be an American than, say, someone like Jane Fonda? Yes, I certainly do. Being an American should mean you reward those who help your people. Not hold to some didactic "well, he's still NOT an American and should get in line along with everyone else". Excuse me, but Mohammed is NOT "everyone else". This man deserves to be an American a LOT more than some people born into American citizenship by the graces of fortune deserve to be one. Being an American is more than where you are born or what papers you fill out. It's about who you are inside and what you stand for. But if I have to explain that, you wouldn't understand anyway.

[Lone_Gunman]

Where will the line be drawn though?

Are we going to grant citizenship to everyone who ever risks anything to help us?

This wont be the last time an American POW is released because of info provided by a non-citizen.

Unless you are going to consistently provide citizenship to everyone who helps us, then I dont see how you can justify doing it for this guy.

Should the reward for morality be US citizenship?

[Jim March]

I wasn't aware of the code sections Lawdog cited. That flips my vote to citizenship if he wants it, financial aid if he stays there.

[MeekandMild]

If he is an honorable man, then Iraq would be better served by him staying there, and rebuilding it into a nation where freedom and human rights are high priorities. I agree. American citizenship is great, but this fellow is a potential leader in his own country.

[Frohickey]

Requirements of citizenship are not specified in the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. These are specified by legislation.

As to the 5 year period, for application to be a citizen, to becoming a citizen. Its not a waiting period. Its a period of time to give the applicant an opportunity to discover what it really is to be an American. As it is, there are some in the US that call themselves American, but are anything but! :fire:

Give the man the opportunity to immigrate to the United States, if he wants to. No instant citizenship. Heck, there should be no instant citizenship for babies that are born in the US by illegal aliens from Mexico and Canada, and others.

[CZ-75]

The least we can do is bring him over if he wants it. This would solve most of his potential problems (like folks who don't like Americans chopping him up like a certain Shia cleric who went back in to help our guys out). Citizenship can come later.

I'm still waiting for us to stabilize Afghanistan with some bucks to keep it from becoming another al-Qaeda summercamp and dude ranch again. Also taking bets on how long it will be before we sell out the Kurds... again (our third time in about 30 years).

[Ebbtide]

I will say that are plenty of U.S. service members in Iraq serving our country without U.S. citizenship of their own (I think one of them was a POW).

These folks shoulds go to the head of the line. As far as someone walking six miles to save a life, although brave and couragous, I think everyone on Thehighroad would do the same.

Mohamed can wait his turn like everyone else, then get a rubber stamp.

[Bonker]

"I think everyone on Thehighroad would do the same."

Are ya SURE about that? I don't know that I would have.

Risk nothing and go live my life OR save a complete stranger and risk the likelyhood that my wife gets raped while I watch, then my kids and myself are shot in the back of the head?

I don't think anyone can say for sure that they would have done the same thing in his situation.

[Frohickey]

Servicemembers can be citizens after 2 years of applying for citizenship, while they are serving.

Normally, its 5 years after applying for citizenship for civilians.

If Mohammed wants to, he can immigrate to the US. Citizenship requires time to properly understand and take in American culture, language and customs.

[TexasVet]

"anything" - No, and no one remotely suggested that, so I don't know where you pulled that out of. But for someone who risked his LIFE to help save a wounded soldier? Not just once, but multiple times? Hell yes!

[Lone_Gunman]

Ok, so Mohammed potentially saved the life of a US Soldier, and that is a good and wonderful thing, so lets let him come to the USA...

but,

Every Iraqi soldier who surrendered also potentially saved the life of a US Soldier. Do they all get to come here too?

Philosophically what is the difference?

Please don't get me wrong here, I am not trying to minimize the good that Mohammed did, and I certainly am not trying to trivialize the release of the soldier. Iraq would be a better place if there were more men there like him.

[publius]

I agree with Bonker. Many would not have taken the chances Mohammed did. An Iraqi soldier throwing down his rifle when Marines approach is pretty easy to understand.

This was an Iraqi lawyer, who very likely could have just laid low and let the battle between his government and ours go on without much disruption in his life.

Instead, he risked sneaking away to find US troops. He stood a good chance of experiencing, along with his family, the wrath of the Iraqi regime. He walked for miles (I'm saying that excludes most netizens right there), and he approached some very nervous US soldiers, an inherently dangerous activity. Then he snuck back past the Iraqis. Then he did it all again, and again, from what I understand. 3 separate, heroic, exhausting, extremely dangerous walks through the night in a war zone, by a man who really didn't have to do the first one. I just don't see how that's the same thing as surrendering.

[srschick]

Lone_Gunman wrote:
Should the reward for morality be US citizenship?

Yes, and all others (especially stupid liberal celebrities) should be shipped to.... France.


If he want's citizenship, IMHO he should get it, but through normal channels. (but be allowed special help in order to acheive it)
I also agree, he would be a asset to the new Iraq.


Lone_Gunman,
Let's just assume that Mo' didn't originally raise a gun against a soldier? The soldiers did what they did moreso to save their own skins after taking arms.
Mo actively did what he did, knowing that more than just his own self was in danger.
That would be the difference.

Certainly, if there were more people like him in Iraq, we may not have had a problem to begin with.
How many others knew that Lynch was at that location and did bubkis about it?

[TexasVet]

Every Iraqi soldier who surrendered also potentially saved the life of a US Soldier. Do they all get to come here too?

Philosophically what is the difference?
---------------------------------------------------------------

You have to be kidding, right? You're playing philosophy games when we are talking about a man risking his life? Give me a break. There is a real world out there that cares nothing for "philosophical differences". Most of us live in it. I'll guarantee nothing in a war zone cares about them.

[3 gun]

As a side note, the guy who started this was a member of TFL. I don't know if he came over to THR. I wonder if he's lurking now?

I think he should get a hand, rubber stamp the green card or such, but he should have to complete the other steps to become a citizen.