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taliv
February 7, 2006, 02:48 PM
More Proof of the Decline of Western Civilization: The first State of the Union address, delivered by George Washington in 1790, was 1,087 words long and contained this magnificent passage: "Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness. In one, in which the measures of government receive their impression so immediately from the sense of the community, as in ours, it is proportionately essential. To the security of a free Constitution it contributes in various ways: By convincing those who are entrusted with the public administration, that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people: And by teaching the people themselves to know, and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burdens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience, and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of society; to discriminate the spirit of liberty from that of licentiousness, cherishing the first, avoiding the last, and uniting a speedy but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the laws." Last week's t State of the Union address was 5,432 words long and contained such passages as, "We'll fund additional research in cutting-edge methods of producing ethanol, not just from corn but from wood chips" and "Tonight, let me speak directly to the citizens of Iran."
(bold and underline mine)

the Tuesday Morning Quarterback greg easterbrook slipped this into his column on the superbowl (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9213999) on nfl.com. His breakdown of the game was equally insightful, if somewhat less epic. (even a diehard steelers fan has to admit that one for the thumb isn't as important as the fall of civilization)


seriously, can you even imagine Bush saying something like "that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people:"?

It's amazing how far we've come from George Washington to George Bush

go Stillers!

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JohnBT
February 7, 2006, 04:06 PM
Ol' George wasn't on tv, he got to speak to the educated few. Now the second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking starts while the President is still speaking.

John

GTSteve03
February 7, 2006, 04:24 PM
taliv, why do you hate America? :banghead:

Thefabulousfink
February 7, 2006, 04:43 PM
Taliv, why do you hate the Seahawks? :banghead:

TarpleyG
February 8, 2006, 09:20 AM
taliv, why do you hate America? :banghead:
How come every single time someone criticizes Bush or the Bush administration over here are they labeled as America-haters? Look, I voted for the guy--twice. I think he's in over his head along with the rest of our illustrious .gov. Just because one shows no allegiance to the President does NOT mean they show no allegiance to our country. It reads "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America" not "I pledge allegiance to the President/government of the United States of America." Got it? Good!

The version I prefer--original and untouched.
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Greg

WvaBill
February 8, 2006, 09:47 AM
seriously, can you even imagine Bush saying something like "that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people:"?




Different base of electors chose the different Georges.

bogie
February 8, 2006, 09:57 AM
Yet another reason why one should vote for anyone but a republican. Yawn.

Go back to Democratic Underground.

JesseJames
February 8, 2006, 10:09 AM
I'd say it is the combined effect of popular mass media and our socialistic public education system.
Essentially we are screwing ourselves over.
People back then weren't afraid to go into oratoric sublimity. It was the mark of an enlightened soul in the "age of enlightenment". Something to strive for.
The Industrial Revolution and the influx of new immigrants at the turn of the last century changed standards.
Writing like Washington's would be found in an advanced students Post Doctoral work nowadays. Unfortunately.
Funny thing is, Washington managed fine without a strong formal education by todays standards. Testament to the mans genius.

CAnnoneer
February 8, 2006, 12:46 PM
The Industrial Revolution and the influx of new immigrants at the turn of the last century changed standards.

I think the downturn is far more recent that that. Compare 1950s TV and movies to today's vulgarities.

GTSteve03
February 8, 2006, 01:11 PM
How come every single time someone criticizes Bush or the Bush administration over here are they labeled as America-haters?
Because you can't criticize our leaders, that would be a sign of weakness which in turn would embolden the terrorists!

Every time someone says something against our Administration it adds a new terrorist to the pot over there. Those Bush-hating Democrats in disguise are causing the deaths of our soldiers by directly providing comfort to our enemies!

This is a war to protect our freedom and way of life and we should all be behind our leaders 100% because remember Bush's famous words: "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."

(I wish we had an American-flag waving smiley, it would fit here perfectly.)

TarpleyG
February 8, 2006, 02:38 PM
http://www.dashadyboard.com/images/smilies/flag_smiley.gif

[/ducks for cover]

taliv
February 8, 2006, 02:55 PM
sorry for being dense here gtsteve, but i cna't figure out if that's sarcasm or not


to get back to the topic (as opposed to random bush bashing (not that i'm opposed to that))...

In one, in which the measures of government receive their impression so immediately from the sense of the community, as in ours, it is proportionately essential.

partially my reason for posting was this portion of the quote... do you think that the crux of the issue is that our government no longer immediately receives an impression from the community?

is this a scalability issue? i.e. democracies work great under 20-40 million people, but inevitably turns into a nanny-state once you pass 100 million people?

or is it simply an education issue?

And by teaching the people themselves to know, and to value their own rights; to discern and provide against invasions of them; to distinguish between oppression and the necessary exercise of lawful authority; between burdens proceeding from a disregard to their convenience, and those resulting from the inevitable exigencies of society; to discriminate the spirit of liberty from that of licentiousness, cherishing the first, avoiding the last, and uniting a speedy but temperate vigilance against encroachments, with an inviolable respect to the laws.

where too many of our 300MM citizens are nothing short of blithering idiots.

middy
February 8, 2006, 03:45 PM
taliv,

It's a bureaucracy issue. There are too many government offices and too many public servants, and by the time information gets filtered up through all the yes men and career bureaucrats it is warped beyond recognition. Is this a product of scaling? Perhaps. But I rather think it is a product of meddling. Of politicians catering to the voters who want laws to make their neighbors act the way they think they should act.

It's also an aristocracy issue. Notice the family connections and upbringings of Bush and Kerry? This country has established its own aristocracy, and although we can mock them and we aren't required to bow and it's easier to join their ranks, they still have the money and the power.

This all has nothing to do with Republican vs Democrat, they are both guilty as sin.

And this says nothing about George Bush. I don't recall Clinton orating on the level of George Washington, either.

spooney
February 8, 2006, 03:49 PM
I don't know what this has to do with the NFL or sports in general at all.:uhoh: Why should I care what Greg Easterbrook thinks about politics? Next thing we know Chris Berman is going to be telling us to write our congressmen.

griz
February 8, 2006, 05:17 PM
seriously, can you even imagine Bush saying something like "that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people:"?

I can't even imagine him saying licentiousness.

Seriously, that really shows how much we have changed. 200 years ago the politicians didn't even trust the government. Now even the citizens trust the government enough to vote for politicians who ignore the constitution.

GTSteve03
February 8, 2006, 05:22 PM
http://www.dashadyboard.com/images/smilies/flag_smiley.gif

Thanks TarpleyG! :D
sorry for being dense here gtsteve, but i cna't figure out if that's sarcasm or not
Ahh, the best sarcasm is the kind where you can't quite tell if it is or not... ;)







(that was, BTW :evil: )

Manedwolf
February 8, 2006, 05:24 PM
(bold and underline mine)

the Tuesday Morning Quarterback greg easterbrook slipped this into his column on the superbowl (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9213999) on nfl.com. His breakdown of the game was equally insightful, if somewhat less epic. (even a diehard steelers fan has to admit that one for the thumb isn't as important as the fall of civilization)


seriously, can you even imagine Bush saying something like "that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people:"?

It's amazing how far we've come from George Washington to George Bush

go Stillers!


"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron." H. L. Mencken

JohnBT
February 8, 2006, 05:27 PM
"People back then weren't afraid to go into oratoric sublimity. "

Nobody had a plane to catch or a phone call to make. And most of the common people couldn't read so speeches were the entertainment and longwinded speakers were highly prized.

A lot of people even thought Lincoln's Gettysburg Address was way too short by a hour or more.

John

middy
February 8, 2006, 05:37 PM
most of the common people couldn't read
New England males had about a 90% literacy rate by the time of the revolution.

JohnKSa
February 8, 2006, 05:47 PM
WARNING! BEFORE reading farther, please read the disclaimer at the end of the post.seriously, can you even imagine Bush saying something like "that every valuable end of government is best answered by the enlightened confidence of the people:"? If he had, no one would have understood what he meant, and there would have been complaints that he didn't address the energy issues or say anything about the possibility of nuclear terrorism...

The world has changed just a bit in the last 216 years. And with that change, the job of president has changed too.

I am NOT saying things today are the way they should be, but viewing a presidential address from 2006 alongside one from 1790 as if you can do a straight up across the board comparison shows a focus problem, IMO.

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