Winchester Super X Rifle versus Browning BAR


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Zerstoerer
February 7, 2006, 04:13 PM
Is it the same?
The Winchester should be cheaper but why?

Anybody shot both?
How do autoloaders perform in .300 WSM?

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Onmilo
February 8, 2006, 09:18 AM
Winchester made a semi auto in .300 WSM??!!
The Browning BAR is being made in WSM??
I am no fan of short, fat, cases with sharp taper shoulders, especially in a semi auto, but the writers seem to think it is a good idea

steve4102
February 8, 2006, 06:22 PM
I have a Browning BAR in 300WSM. It is a great rifle and caliber. It cycles great, shoots great and has never given me any problems. The guys at the range can't believe that an auto-loader can shoot ity-bitty groups like the BAR.
I like the rifle and I love the "Short-Mag".

Zerstoerer
February 9, 2006, 12:24 AM
I have a Browning BAR in 300WSM. It is a great rifle and caliber. It cycles great, shoots great and has never given me any problems. The guys at the range can't believe that an auto-loader can shoot ity-bitty groups like the BAR.
I like the rifle and I love the "Short-Mag".

Thanks,
which model do you have exactly, what stock/scope and how much did that set you back (or forward depending on viewpoint)?
What would ity-bitty groups be in inches?

Zerstoerer
February 9, 2006, 12:27 AM
Winchester made a semi auto in .300 WSM??!!
The Browning BAR is being made in WSM??
I am no fan of short, fat, cases with sharp taper shoulders, especially in a semi auto, but the writers seem to think it is a good idea

I don't know if they are out on the market yet, but I think I read somewhere that they will survive the "End" of the Winchester company. Which leads me back to my original question if they are in fact BARs under a different logo.

Whats wrong with short, fat ones ? Cartridges that is, not women.
Reloading, price or what?

Thanks

Onmilo
February 9, 2006, 10:55 AM
I had a bad experience with a .223 WSSM.
400 rounds of factory ammunition and the barrel burned out.
Four inches of freebore at the throat.
Winchester wouldn't rebarrel the rifle because there was no proof of the actual number of rounds fired, however,,,,once the barrel became bent and thus unservicable, they agreed to rebarrel for the cost of shipping both ways.

Maybe the .30 caliber and up rifles won't do that but I am thinking the calibers came late and the Company is closing their doors,,,,,

kennyboy
February 9, 2006, 01:21 PM
Winchester made a semi auto in .300 WSM??!!
The Browning BAR is being made in WSM??
I am no fan of short, fat, cases with sharp taper shoulders, especially in a semi auto, but the writers seem to think it is a good idea

I do not like how the short, fat cases limit magazine capacity. However, those cases cycle better in autos than the regular shells. That is why the U.S. military switched from the longer .30-06 used in the M-1 Garand to the .308 used in the M-14.

atblis
February 9, 2006, 10:57 PM
isn't really fatter than 06 is it? Just shorter really. There's more to switching from 06 to 308 than just cycling issues.

With fat cases, I suppose the chamber is wider while the bullet remains the same size.

Bigger hole for easier insertion.

Zerstoerer
February 10, 2006, 12:40 AM
I had a bad experience with a .223 WSSM.
400 rounds of factory ammunition and the barrel burned out.
Four inches of freebore at the throat.
Winchester wouldn't rebarrel the rifle because there was no proof of the actual number of rounds fired, however,,,,once the barrel became bent and thus unservicable, they agreed to rebarrel for the cost of shipping both ways.

Maybe the .30 caliber and up rifles won't do that but I am thinking the calibers came late and the Company is closing their doors,,,,,

In what time frame were those 400 rounds fired? One session?
The bad thing about autoloaders is that one will fire more and faster giving the barrel less time to cool. German MG-3 with the polygonal barrel was good for 50 rds in full auto, then required a barrel change. A 50 rds belt goes through the gun in about ,,,,,, this long, one burst really.

Should one buy any Winchester Gun at this time or wait to see what happens to the company?

Onmilo
February 10, 2006, 09:04 AM
Zerstoerer, I cannot answer your question because the rifle didn't belong to me, I just handled the merry go around to get the rifle repaired under warranty.
Because I myself could not answer that question, nor could I, or the customer, provide proof of the actual number of rounds fired, other means of ensuring warranty repair were implemented.

If you are asking my opinion on whether the purchase of any WSM or WSSM caliber rifle is a good idea I can only answer by asking you if you intend to collect for investment or buy as a shooting rifle?

Lots of calibers become obsolete and impossible to find, or it ends up as a reload only proposition.
However,,,,
Lots of rifles in lots of obsolete calibers become extremely expensive collector aquisitions in future times.
Case in point, Maynard Target rifles.

If you are an investment appreciation speculator the rifles may, or may not, become valuable in the future.

If you are a serious shooter,,,,,
I personally would consider another caliber option.

Gewehr98
February 10, 2006, 09:04 AM
However, those cases cycle better in autos than the regular shells. That is why the U.S. military switched from the longer .30-06 used in the M-1 Garand to the .308 used in the M-14.

Nope, missed that one by a country mile. Uncle Sam switched purely due to weight savings, since the introduction of Ball Powder in the 1950's meant that the new 7.62mm NATO round could nearly duplicate .30-06 performance in a smaller (shorter) package. So they saved weight both in the rifle due to shorter receiver length, and in the ammo weight. Hence the soldier could carry more ammo, or other stuff, without breaking his back in the field.

Shorter, fatter cases require some extra work to enable smooth feeding. Ask the folks who developed the 6.5mm Grendel cartridge for the AR-15/M16 platform. The parent cartridge, the 6.5mm PPC, was too sharply shouldered to feed reliably from standard USGI magazines. It's also why one doesn't find too many repeater boltguns in 6mm PPC or any of the PPC family, most of the guns are single shots with solid bottom receiver metal. Winchester, Browning, and Remington all had to do modifications to their rifle designs to reliably feed the variety of Short Mags from their internal magazines. :scrutiny:

Bigfoot
February 19, 2006, 12:16 AM
The Super X looks like a BAR to me minus the bolt release lever and with a more rounded reciever. Hey did ya see the left-handed BARs? I'm no lefty but it's interesting how Browning is reaching out to those guys.

Zerstoerer
February 19, 2006, 01:29 AM
The Super X looks like a BAR to me minus the bolt release lever and with a more rounded reciever. Hey did ya see the left-handed BARs? I'm no lefty but it's interesting how Browning is reaching out to those guys.


Bigfoot,
I always wondered why most autoloaders have the bolt release on the left side. Why move the shooting hand away from the grip/trigger ?
Liked the way HK does it with their G3 and MP5 line.
Maybe a left handed version of the BAR makes sense to a right handed person.
Are the stocks different?

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