[birddog]

Hi folks. I just got a box of 300 grain, cast Meister bullets, but am having a hell of a time finding load recipes. My powder of choice is Unique, and according to Alliant's site, 7.2 grains is a suggested load. But upon cross referencing this info with several other web pages, it appears to be a fairly anemic load. 965fps out of a 5 inch barrel.

My question is that since Mesiter claims these bullets can be loaded relatively hot with no leading (due to their hardness), could I start out with something a little warmer. Like even, say, 7.5? 8?

I'm not talking about wildly hot loads, just something that would knock a deer down. (I usually use Magtech 240 JSP's pushed by 10.9gr of Unique).

Anyone with real world experience loading lead 300's for .44 magnum, using Unique?

Thanks for your help.
Joel

[HSMITH]

I have loaded and shot that bullet with charges a lot higher than 7.2 grains, with the same purpose in mind that you have. I don't remember where I got my data, but if I remember I will look around tonight.

Leading was pretty fierce in the upper loads.

300 grains at 1000 fps will ventilate a whitetail from end to end even with big bones in the way. It is also flat shooting.

[birddog]

Thanks...

Anyone else?

[Bottom Gun]

I've loaded 300 gr cast with 9.0 gr Unique. It worked OK and I didn't see any sign of excessive pressure.
I didn't find the load in any manuals. I was just experimenting.
My pistol shoots more accurately with the 240's though so I seldom load 300's.

[paul105]

I've loaded 300 gr cast with 9.0 gr Unique. It worked OK and I didn't see any sign of excessive pressure.
I didn't find the load in any manuals. I was just experimenting.
My pistol shoots more accurately with the 240's though so I seldom load 300's.



Here is a link to Alliantpowder.com -- they list max unique loads for .44 mag 300gr Horn XTP and 310gr LSWC.
http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=pistolrevolver&step=1

Paul

[PinnedAndRecessed]

Hi folks. I just got a box of 300 grain, cast Meister bullets, but am having a hell of a time finding load recipes. My powder of choice is Unique, and according to Alliant's site, 7.2 grains is a suggested load. But upon cross referencing this info with several other web pages, it appears to be a fairly anemic load. 965fps out of a 5 inch barrel.

My question is that since Mesiter claims these bullets can be loaded relatively hot with no leading (due to their hardness), could I start out with something a little warmer. Like even, say, 7.5? 8?

I'm not talking about wildly hot loads, just something that would knock a deer down. (I usually use Magtech 240 JSP's pushed by 10.9gr of Unique).

Anyone with real world experience loading lead 300's for .44 magnum, using Unique?

Thanks for your help.
Joel

http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=300&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source=

Their suggestion is to start with 7.5 and work up to 8.3 for 955fps.

[birddog]

Update:

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I did just what PinnedandRecessed's last post suggested and started with 7.5 and worked up to 8.3 grains of Unique (pushing a Miester 300gr cast LSWC).

I shot the 7.5's this morning out of my 4" 629. The results were very accurate rounds, that felt surprisingly like a .44 Special! I was plinking from 10-30 yards and found them to be extremely accurate.

This afternoon, I tried some of the 8.3's and the difference was noticeable. Same POI at plinking distances, though more stout recoil. By no means unmanageable recoil, just stout. The reason I used the short 629 was to "feel" the difference. My Taurus 6" with the ported barrel is much less of a handful with warm loads, but I really wanted to see and feel if there was a lot of difference between 7.5 and 8.3. And there was.

I didn't notice any leading after 30 shots of each, either. I think the 8.3 load is a winner and loaded up 100 more of them to try putting through my hunting guns, now. I'm interested to see what happens at 50 and 75 yards as far as bullet drop goes.

Joel

[IV Troop]

I shoot a lot of Unique in 44 mags. 10 grains with a 240 is a standard load. 10 grains with a 300 is not hard on the guns either and will do very well on mule deer sized game. Accurate. Though I generally use Laser Cast bullets.

[paul105]

Alliant, the maker of Unique lists 8.3gr max with 300gr Horn XTP
http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg....evolver&step=1.

10 grains of Unique looks like a substantial overload. Unique isn't an optimum powder for the 300gr bullet in the .44 Mag. -- no telling what pressure spikes you might encounter -- why push it with Unique????

Paul

[Bottom Gun]

I agree with Paul that 10 grains may be too much with a 300 grain bullet.

[HSMITH]

Jacketed bullets and lead bullets are apples and oranges. You cannot draw any parrallels from the data for one to the other, not safely anyway.

Unique actually works very well with lead 300's. Accurate, fast enough for anything you want to shoot with a 44, and consistent.

[paul105]

Jacketed bullets and lead bullets are apples and oranges. You cannot draw any parrallels from the data for one to the other, not safely anyway.

Unique actually works very well with lead 300's. Accurate, fast enough for anything you want to shoot with a 44, and consistent.

I don't totally disagree about jacketed vs. cast being not totally comparable, but how do you know -- you're at the upper end, maybe over it -- why push it. How many 300gr cast bullet combinations/permutations are there that might effect pressure(s)? How about different component lots, primers, cases, etc? For example, using the data from the Lyman 48 manual, the following is a comparison of 240gr Jackedted Vs. Cast:

240gr Jacketed Sierra HC
Powder: Unique
Max Load: 11.5gr
OAL: 1.610
Velocity fps: 1,074
Pressure CUP: 39,000

240gr Cast Linotype (Lyman 429667)
Powder: Unique
Max Load: 10.0gr
OAL: 1.645
Velocity fps: 1,115
Pressure CUP: 39,300

In the above example, the jacketed load produced less pressure with a 15% greater powder charge.

I have no idea how the 300gr XTP would compare to the 300gr Meister but based on the above, but I would be reluctant to exceed the Alliant referenced max load.

Paul

[HSMITH]

Well, the bullet listed in your lead example is cast from Linotype, hard as woodpecker lips almost. Linotype will generate pressures above that of normal cast bullets by a lot, night and day difference from a 15BHN bullet. I cast both, and alloys everywhere in between.

My point is that trying to assume anything about a cast bullet using jacketed data won't work, and trying to assume anything for a jacketed bullet from lead data won't work and is quite probably dangerous.

[Bottom Gun]

I have a question now.
I've always assumed cast bullets generated higher pressure than jacketed because they seal better against the sides of the bore.
If the Linotype alloy is harder than normal cast bullets, wouldn't it seal less effectively and generate slightly lower pressure than the normal cast bullets?

[Derby FALs]

Hi folks. I just got a box of 300 grain, cast Meister bullets, but am having a hell of a time finding load recipes. My powder of choice is Unique, and according to Alliant's site, 7.2 grains is a suggested load. But upon cross referencing this info with several other web pages, it appears to be a fairly anemic load. 965fps out of a 5 inch barrel.

My question is that since Mesiter claims these bullets can be loaded relatively hot with no leading (due to their hardness), could I start out with something a little warmer. Like even, say, 7.5? 8?

I'm not talking about wildly hot loads, just something that would knock a deer down. (I usually use Magtech 240 JSP's pushed by 10.9gr of Unique).

Anyone with real world experience loading lead 300's for .44 magnum, using Unique?

Thanks for your help.
Joel
Be all you can be. Use 2400. I only use Unique for practice loads and I don't want them all that hot.

http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg.taf?_function=pistolrevolver&step=1

[HSMITH]

Bottomgun, lead in a normal alloy generates less pressure than jacketed even though when everything is working right there is more bore-to-bullet contact than with a jacketed bullet. Lead on steel generates less friction than copper on steel, and the lube flow lubricates the passage of the lead bullet. The lead also resists engraving on the rifling a lot less than a copper jacket.

Yes, Linotype is much more difficult to get a good seal. Pressures needed to obturate the bullet are much higher than with a normal bullet alloy.

[Bottom Gun]

What you said about friction makes a lot of sense.

Why would the lead resist engraving more than copper since the lead is softer?
I can score cast bullets with my thumbnail but I cannot do it with a jacketed bullet.
Why wouldn’t the softer material engrave easier in a bore?

[Derby FALs]

You should probably use a gas check with lead bullets if you are trying for max loads.

[HSMITH]

I said lead resists engraving less than a jacketed bullet, or at least that is what I meant to say.......

[IV Troop]

Alliant, the maker of Unique lists 8.3gr max with 300gr Horn XTP
http://recipes.alliantpowder.com/rg....evolver&step=1.

10 grains of Unique looks like a substantial overload. Unique isn't an optimum powder for the 300gr bullet in the .44 Mag. -- no telling what pressure spikes you might encounter -- why push it with Unique????

Paul


You are talking about data with a jacketed bullet and the original question and my response was refering to LEAD bullets. 10 grains Unique is a perfectly safe load and not a max load by any means. It can be safely put through even N frames with no harm. I have been shooting this combo for many years.

If you are a 44 fan, read the multiple books by John Taffin or visit SIXGUNNER on the web. You will find the 10 grain Unique/300 grain lead load a common load among knowledgeable 44 handgunners.

Frankly though, The 240 grain lasercast & 10 grains Unique is a perfect daily load that will serve well for general purpose 44 handgunning.

[Bottom Gun]

HSSmith,

You're right. I guess I need to learn how to read. I can't believe I did that.

Anyway, thanks for clearing that up for me.

BG

[JMusic]

With that heavy of a bullet you may want to buy a pound of H110. This is a universal powder for the 44 mag with heavier bullets. H110 will allow you to load fairly mild loads and real crankers. Good luck
Jim

[Bottom Gun]

The problem I had with H110 was that if I didn’t put a heavy crimp on the brass, the powder wouldn’t always ignite. After I had to remove the third bullet stuck in my bore, I destroyed the remainder of the can. I didn’t want to be out in the middle of nowhere and suddenly render my gun inoperable.
H110 was clean burning, but I had to use over double the amount when compared to Unique.

I’ve tried a few powders other than Unique, but I haven’t liked them as well as I like Unique. I can make my .44’s do everything I want them to using 9-13 grains of Unique.

[JMusic]

H110 loads for 300 grain bullets start at about 16.5 grains for 1000fps and top out at about 20 grains at 1250. I agree it is not a low velocity load but if you are pouring in large amounts of unique you are not looking for plinking rounds. My pistol powders are bullseye for low vel. practice loads, tite group, unique (my favorite) and H110 for hunting rounds. If you are getting some stickers I bet you are under loading. Just a guess.
Jim

[Bottom Gun]

When those bullets stuck in my bore, the powder didn’t ignite at all. The primer kicked the slug into my bore. My cylinder was full of powder.
The cases were full of powder. I don’t recall how much, but I had them loaded hot.
Since I had loaded light 180 gr bullets, I only put a mild crimp on the brass. The crimp wasn’t enough.
I fired 4 cylinders of these loads. In those 24 rounds, 3 failed to ignite. The primers were in good shape and had enough force to drive the slug past the forcing cone.

I contacted Hogden and was told the powder had a coating and required a fairly heavy crimp for reliable ignition.

Until that happened, I would not have believed a case full of powder would fail to ignite because of the crimp.

[IV Troop]

H110 is my top choice for hot 44 loads. Between H110 and Unique you have all the bases covered in the 44 mag. BTW 22 grains of H110 with a 320 cast (RUGER ONLY, very top end load)!!!!!! will go lengthwise through a cow elk;) . 19.5 grains with a 300 to 320 cast will do everything you could ever need a handgun to do.

For day to day shooting 10 grains of Unique is a fine general purpose load.

8.5 grains is a good indoor target range load, basically a warm 44 special.

[paul105]

[QUOTE=HSMITH]Well, the bullet listed in your lead example is cast from Linotype, hard as woodpecker lips almost. Linotype will generate pressures above that of normal cast bullets by a lot, night and day difference from a 15BHN bullet. I cast both, and alloys everywhere in between.


Here's a quote from Veral Smith -- LBT proprietor:

As the alloy is softened with most bullet lubes on the market, pressures climb dramatically, while with LBT lubricants, pressures go up so little that it is normally of no concern with alloys down to as soft as 8 - 10 bhn, which is freshly cast air cool wheel weight metal, this if the load is listed as generating pressures under 40,000 psi.



Paul

[paul105]

You are talking about data with a jacketed bullet and the original question and my response was refering to LEAD bullets. 10 grains Unique is a perfectly safe load and not a max load by any means. It can be safely put through even N frames with no harm. I have been shooting this combo for many years.

If you are a 44 fan, read the multiple books by John Taffin or visit SIXGUNNER on the web. You will find the 10 grain Unique/300 grain lead load a common load among knowledgeable 44 handgunners.

Frankly though, The 240 grain lasercast & 10 grains Unique is a perfect daily load that will serve well for general purpose 44 handgunning.


RE: the 300gr Load with Unique -- How do you know??? Have you pressure tested it??? Why wouold you use Unique with 300gr Bullets??.

Paul

[JMusic]

Bottom Gun I probably did have a heavy crimp because of recoil. I also used magnum primers(CCI 350). I've never had a problem like that with H110 and have shot tens of thousands of rounds with it, especially in 30 carbine.
Jim

[Bottom Gun]

Try it with no crimp or a very light crimp and see what happens. Take a wooden dowel along just in case.

I don't use magnum primers. Maybe that makes a difference. My experience with H110 was back in the early 80's. Maybe they no longer coat the powder.

In any case, I no longer use H110. The small gain in velocity over Unique powder was negligible and I'm certainly not going to trade reliability for a few extra FPS velocity, especially when it disables my revolver when it doesn't ignite. 50 to 100 fps difference in loads out of these guns doesn't amount to much.

[JMusic]

We must not be talking about the same powders or you have data on Unique that I haven't seen. H110 is generally one of the hottest powders you can use in magnum pistols.
Jim

[Bottom Gun]

I'm talking about Hogden H110 and Alliant Unique except that I think it was made my Hercules back then.
My hottest Unique loads chronographed approx 100 fps faster than the hottest H110 loads I tried in my 6 1/2" Mod 29. The difference was even less in my 3" 629.
The Lyman manual would lead you to expect several hundred fps difference but that certainly wasn't the case with the three guns we shot through the screens. Barrel lengths were 3, 4, and 6 1/2 inches. Maybe longer barrels would show different results, maybe not.

The advantages I saw to using H110 aside from the extra 100 fps was that I got to use twice as much powder to get unreliable ignition and MUCH greater muzzle flash and blast.
The fired cases did extract easier with the H110 load, but that was the only plus I saw so I stayed with my good old Unique.

I prefer the faster powders anyway because they produce less flash when I shoot in low light and faster powders are easier on the bore. To me, the recoil seems to be slightly less as well but I'm sure it only seems that way due to the decreased muzzle blast.

In any case, I saw no reason to use H110 for my applications.

[JMusic]

You probably are getting less recoil due to less powder. I like Unique too probably my favorite powder. I'm just puzzeled at your experience with H110 compared to mine. Good day
Jim

[Bottom Gun]

Well, like I said earlier, try some without crimping and with standard primers. You may be able to duplicate my results.
They won't all fail, but one failure is too much.