WI: another idiot editor to hit


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Monkeyleg
February 8, 2006, 11:57 PM
More garbage from the gun-haters. I hope at least a few here will be able to get letters published.

Link: http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060208/WDH06/602080421/1637/WDHopinion

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TequilaMockingbird
February 8, 2006, 11:58 PM
Let's gather some statistics and see for ourselves.

It's been done in state after state that passed concealed carry. In no state did the nightmare visions of the antis come to pass.

sumpnz
February 9, 2006, 12:13 AM
Tequila - I agree with you. However, the next time Dick and his fellow gunnies in WI get a bill introduced, assuming that it's necessary to get a veto override, adding that study provision would be a worthwhile compromise. We all know that, fairly interpreted at least, the study results would only help us and would make it easier to loosen CCW restrictions. However, I would fight tooth and nail to keep out a sunset clause.

Of course, if a GOP candidate wins the govenor's mansion that won't be necessary.

fiveoboy01
February 9, 2006, 12:24 AM
I was under the impression that the DOJ was going to issue yearly stats on # of permits issued/revoked, etc. if the legislation passed. Though, I had only read this on another forum. Could be wrong, I guess...

But as was said, there are plenty of statistics gathered from other states with CCW in place. The antis, however, will have you believe that WI will be a different story.

Desertdog
February 9, 2006, 12:24 AM
First, it should have a sunset date. Try concealed weapons for a year or two or five, and have the law automatically die after a prescribed period of time, requiring another vote before it could be renewed. IMO, set a date that if the crime and death rate from firearms go up, they can repeal the law.

Standing Wolf
February 9, 2006, 12:35 AM
Of course, if a GOP candidate wins the govenor's mansion that won't be necessary.

Unless, of course, you get a Schwarzenegger.

sumpnz
February 9, 2006, 01:33 AM
Unless, of course, you get a Schwarzenegger.
Even the Govenator has enough political savvy to not go against 63% of the legislature on an issue that is of great importance to his political base on the eve of an election. Remember of course, that Ahhnold's base is not gun owners, or really even conservatives. If he were elected govenor of WI I have little doubt that he'd sign the PPA, even if he didn't really want to. His problems are related to lack of savvy in other areas of politics.

TequilaMockingbird
February 9, 2006, 02:08 AM
IMO, set a date that if the crime and death rate from firearms go up, they can repeal the law.

We need to be careful here that we don't get sucked into playing utilitarianism, which is a destroyer of rights. Do our rights to keep and bear arms depend upon how criminals misuse firearms? Of course they don't.

Desertdog
February 9, 2006, 03:12 AM
We need to be careful here that we don't get sucked into playing utilitarianism, which is a destroyer of rights. Do our rights to keep and bear arms depend upon how criminals misuse firearms? Of course they don't.
Very true. I should have remembered that. What I was thinking, was crime would probably drop, and they would not be able to repeal in.

Dolomite
February 9, 2006, 10:50 AM
RE: Justice Department report on concealed weapons.

Not a new idea, but certainly not a bad one. Snooping through the Texas DPS and Minnesota BCA sites and viewing their exhaustive reports just proves something most already know: criminals and terrorists, junkies and the tinfoil hat types just won't bother to go through the hassle of getting the background check and training required to obtain a permit law abiding citizens that truly care about keeping themselves and their families safe however, will.

A link to the Minnesota Department of Public Safety's Bureau of Criminal Apprehension "Permit to Carry Reports": http://www.dps.state.mn.us/bca/CJIS/Documents/CarryPermit/permittocarry.html

The report as a whole makes for some very enjoyable reading. Especially the table entry on p.10: "The number of convictions and types of crimes committed by individuals with permits including data as to whether a firearm lawfully carried solely by virtue of a permit was actually used in furtherance of the crime", where the tally is: 1(out of the then 15,677 current permits), or .0064% of permit holders.

And I believe that single case refers to the one where a person shot a car in which his brother was driving in hopes of preventing him from getting a DUI (or something equally dramatic along those lines).

In one of the reports you'll see that 85 out of the 87 county Sheriffs in MN reported their expenditures as required by the MN shall issue statute (to alleviate valid concerns that their version of the PPA was an unfunded mandate).

Out of the 85 counties reporting, a grand total of 3 indicated that they actually lost money issuing permits:

Olmstead Co. (403 issued, 4 denied, $10,449 in the hole)
Ramsey Co. (1188 permits issued, 44 denied, $147,249 in the hole)
Hennepin Co. (2710 issued, 30 denied, $253,541 in the hole)

It would appear that the price of labor and office equipment rentals is insanely high in some parts of L'Etoile du Nord.

Other departments appeared to be anywhere between $0 and $45,000 in the black thanks to the permit process. The MN permit is $100 and is valid for 5 years.

With that in mind, if WI required similar reporting, it could be seen as a waste of money but since Im in favor of shall-issue concealed carry, and base that on the success TX and MN have had with their laws, Id be willing to have some mandatory reporting in the next version of the bill provided that the reporting gets leaned out (allowed to sunset) after 5 years. Besides, we have unbiased journalists like you around reporting the facts about CCW laws, right? We can count on fine news outlets such as yours to alert the public the very second blood begins running in the streets.

Zundfolge
February 9, 2006, 12:52 PM
Those results were backed up last year by a national Gallup poll that found nearly two-thirds of Americans -- including a startling 45 percent of gun owners -- reject the notion that more guns make us safer.

Because we all know that opinions are more important than facts.

Drizzt
February 10, 2006, 02:58 AM
Letters: Rep. Van Akkeren considered safety of Wisconsin with vote on weapons

When state Rep. Terry Van Akkeren cast his vote on the concealed carry bill On Feb. 2, many believe he put his political career on the line.

We believe he weighed concerns expressed by constituents (both supporters and opponents of concealed carry) along with those of law enforcement officers from throughout Wisconsin whose expertise provided him an objective view of the issues involved. We appreciate that.

We know that properly registered firearms can become lethal in domestic violence situations.

We believe Rep. Van Akkeren made the right decision to uphold Wisconsin's 130-year ban against ordinary citizens carrying concealed weapons.

We know his decision was neither easy nor popular. We appreciate his willingness to consider the safety of all Wisconsin citizens.

Because of the Assembly vote, Wisconsin, one of only four states that has not enacted a law permitting concealed carry, can continue to reflect proudly on its history as an independent, progressive state concerned for the well-being of all of its citizens.

MARY FONTANAZZA

Executive Director

Safe Harbor domestic abuse shelter

Readers respond

Quote: "We know that properly registered firearms can become lethal in domestic violence situations." What does this have to do with the concealed carry law? I realize the domestic abuse is a problem and I applaud the mission of Safe Harbor, but domestic violence and concealed carry have about as much to do with each other as applesauce and Apple computers. I think it's more than a little disingenuous to link the two in an attempt to shame those in favor of concealed carry and to applaud Rep. VanAkkeren for going against the wishes of his constituency under pressure from the governor. Jeff Cole of Sheboygan

http://www.sheboygan-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060208/SHE0601/602080441/1111/SHEopinion

halvey
February 10, 2006, 11:51 AM
Olmstead Co. (403 issued, 4 denied, $10,449 in the hole)

Ramsey Co. (1188 permits issued, 44 denied, $147,249 in the hole)

Hennepin Co. (2710 issued, 30 denied, $253,541 in the hole)


Funny the 3 most anti-gun, political corrupt, hack job sheriffs would claim to loose money on permitting.

Even the Dakota County sheriff has shut up about the whole thing.

Janitor
February 10, 2006, 12:02 PM
Quote: "We know that properly registered firearms can become lethal in domestic violence situations." What does this have to do with the concealed carry law? I realize the domestic abuse is a problem and I applaud the mission of Safe Harbor, but domestic violence and concealed carry have about as much to do with each other as applesauce and Apple computers. I think it's more than a little disingenuous to link the two in an attempt to shame those in favor of concealed carry and to applaud Rep. VanAkkeren for going against the wishes of his constituency under pressure from the governor. — Jeff Cole of Sheboyga
Well written, polite, and even supportive of (what should be) their actual cause.

I like the "disingenuous" remark a lot. Did the "Readers Respond" tag mean that this got printed?

1000th post! And in only a bit over three years!

Trip20
February 10, 2006, 02:23 PM
Drizzt and Dolomite: Awesome job fellas. Well said. ;)

Drizzt
February 10, 2006, 02:36 PM
Did the "Readers Respond" tag mean that this got printed?

yes, amazingly enough, it did get printed. Kudos to Mr. Jeff Cole.

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