US lawmaker sees border 'war' with renegade Mexican troops


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Rusher
February 9, 2006, 03:00 PM
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/09/060209141914.vit6days.html


US lawmaker sees border 'war' with renegade Mexican troops
Feb 09 9:19 AM US/Eastern
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A Colorado lawmaker said there was a "war" under way along the US-Mexico border and urged President George W. Bush to deploy troops there, alleging drug trafficking by the Mexican military.

Republican Representative Tom Tancredo said the United States was facing "a war" with renegade Mexican troops over the long, porous border.



"We have a war. We are facing a military on the other side of the border," Tancredo told demonstrators protesting illegal immigration outside the US Congress.

"In other places, in other times, that would be an active war," he added, reiterating an accusation that Mexican troops had covered up a drug trafficking operation two weeks ago near the Texas border city of El Paso.

The Mexican government and the US Border Patrol have denied that Mexican troops participated in the January 23 incident.

But Tancredo insisted that Mexican troops were a part of it and repeated his call for Bush to send troops into the border area. "I want my government to protect our borders," he said.

"The Mexican military is facilitating the drug trafficking. They are part of the drug cartels," Tancredo said.

"They (officials) do not want to say the obvious -- that the Mexican government does not even have control of its own military," he said, drawing applause from some 50 demonstrators.

The demonstration was organized to protest a Bush proposal to create a program which offers temporary worker status for foreign workers in order to combat illegal immigration. The Senate is expected to debate the plan soon.

One of the speakers at the demonstration, Jim Gilchrist, the founder of a civilian volunteer group that patrols the border for illegal immigrants, warned senators they would be ousted if they back the guest worker proposal.

"Dear Senate of the United States of America, I'm putting you on notice that ... if we cannot change you with our rhetoric and we cannot move you with our rhetoric, ... we will remove you out from office with our vote," Gilchrist told the demonstrators.

Tancredo sharply criticized the Bush proposal.

"He keeps saying the only way that we'll get any border security is when we get a guest worker program. Those two things have nothing to do with each other.

"You cannot have a guest worker program at any time as long as you have porous borders," he added.

A counter-demonstration of a dozen protesters held up signs reading in Spanish "no one is illegal", and "change your name, you're still the KKK (Ku Klux Klan)", referring to the American white racist group.

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LAR-15
February 9, 2006, 03:04 PM
A counter-demonstration of a dozen protesters held up signs reading in Spanish "no one is illegal", and "change your name, you're still the KKK (Ku Klux Klan)", referring to the American white racist group.

Biker
February 9, 2006, 03:10 PM
It's time. Past due, in fact. Bush will do nothing but talk, if that much.
A damn shame that Americans, both BP and Civies are gonna have to die on our border before anything is done, but let's open up this dance.
The chickens are coming home to roost, Jorge Bush.
Biker

LAR-15
February 9, 2006, 03:48 PM
I disagree.

The US public largely does not care about the border.

Biker
February 9, 2006, 03:51 PM
At this point, and they won't until the illegal problem lands on their collective doorsteps or until people start getting dead as a result of border incursions. Of course, the latter depends upon whether or not the MSM, including Fox, pays the incidents more than politically slanted lip service.
Biker

cosine
February 9, 2006, 03:55 PM
Granted, the border is porous, but I don't see it as a war. If we actaully had troops on the border, I doubt if there would be any fighting at all. The mexican army wouldn't even cross the border.

Now, this is a political, newsworthy story, but probably off-topic. Coronach has been enforcing the rules of this forum strictly the last several days.


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We have noted that the civility of L&P has been plummeting of late. Correlated with this is yet another resurgence of political posts that do not meet the criteria as outlined in the rules of conduct. Just because a post is 'political' does not mean it belongs here. It must address firearms issues or civil liberties issues directly. "Civil liberties are in danger because Bush lied, people died!" and "we will lose all of our guns becuase Hillary has anger issues!" will not cut it. Post directly, not obliquely, about how a given topic has an impact on RKBA or civil liberties.

Thank you,

Staff at THR

I forsee a lock in this thread's future. I do like hearing people's views about these news stories, so I've been asking people to take news like this over to APS so that we can still have discussions about it.

El Tejon
February 9, 2006, 03:58 PM
The US-Mexico border has always been dangerous. Delusions and tantrums by the Peter Panners (fat guys cleaning their SKSs on their recliners) notwithstanding, the Mexican Army is not poised to invade the U.S.A.:rolleyes:

This is nothing more than political manipulation by the Right.

wingman
February 9, 2006, 03:58 PM
Actually polls I've read stated 79% of the public want illegal immigration stopped.

I'm a long time south Texas resident and it grows worse each year in terms of
numbers of people crossing and corruption (in my opinion ). The drug cartels
want control of the border, and unless our government national and state
"want" to stop it I am concerned it will develop into a more dangerous
situation.

TrekkieFromHell
February 9, 2006, 03:58 PM
1.) All topics and posts must be related to firearms or civil liberties issues.

Well, the folks living close to the border might have to use their guns to keep another country's military where they belong... So would that make this thread firearms related?

1 old 0311
February 9, 2006, 04:03 PM
I have a brother in law with the BP in San Diego. He said it is not a question of "if" but a matter of "when." He said EVERYBODY in the BP is carrying lots of firepower now. 15 Years ago it was just the poor people looking for a job on a farm, now it is ALL controlled by the big drug money. Stay tuned:mad: :mad:

Kevin

LAR-15
February 9, 2006, 04:03 PM
Actually polls I've said 79% of the public wants illegal immigration stopped.

I'm a long time south Texas resident and it grows worse each year in terms of
numbers of people crossing and corruption (in my opinion ). The drug cartels
want control of the border, and unless our government national and state
"want" to stop it I am concerned it will develop into a more dangerous
situation.

Polls mean nothing.

Lennyjoe
February 9, 2006, 04:15 PM
Polls mean nothing
Unless it has to do with the President or CNN.:neener:

The-Fly
February 9, 2006, 04:45 PM
I have a brother in law with the BP in San Diego. He said it is not a question of "if" but a matter of "when." He said EVERYBODY in the BP is carrying lots of firepower now. 15 Years ago it was just the poor people looking for a job on a farm, now it is ALL controlled by the big drug money. Stay tuned:mad: :mad:

Kevin


i had a direct family member who is former BP, he was in from 97-01 in the San Diego area. He carried a full auto M4 and at least 4 mags on him at all times. The stories he tells me about what really happens at the border are quite frightening.

longeyes
February 9, 2006, 05:00 PM
The US public largely does not care about the border.

The "border" is an abstraction to most Americans. But higher taxes and all the rest of the repercussions from illegal immigration aren't. The MSM and the pols have done their best to keep American citizens in the dark about illegal immigration. This is an issue that is NOT going away.

Powderman
February 9, 2006, 05:11 PM
You know what?

I'm just ornery enough...hard headed enough...and maybe stupid enough, to some...

but I took an oath a long time ago to defend this Nation.

And if I lived in that area, and saw armed foreign troops on our border, with obvious hostile intent...well, my guns would get a workout.

Mounted .50? Well, the guy standing behind it would make a mighty nice target, especially at long range.

So, they hide in the bushes at night? So can I.

And, yes, I know...I more than likely would NOT survive. If I made it through the first encounter, I probably would not survive the second.

But these criminals don't need to be talked to or threatened. The time for that is past.

They need to bleed.

Waitone
February 9, 2006, 05:17 PM
I think the prez needs to be put on notice that he is impeachment bait should something ugly happen.

longeyes
February 9, 2006, 06:03 PM
Something ugly is already happening.

This is a slo-mo nuke.

engineer151515
February 9, 2006, 06:14 PM
US/Mexican border.

Another example of the Federal Government's failure to protect US citizens.


You are on your own.



Good luck.


PS - what is stopping a Governor from posting the State National Guard units?

Rezin
February 9, 2006, 06:27 PM
I disagree.

The US public largely does not care about the border.

I have to disagree. Almost all the people I know (and that is many) are very aware of the border situation, and most are concerned............

Biker
February 9, 2006, 06:32 PM
But what do they do with that concern, Rezin?
Biker

Rezin
February 9, 2006, 06:35 PM
But what do they do with that concern, Rezin?
Biker

My buddy Rennie is in the Minutemen. Aside from him, not many are doing anything other than grousing about it.............

Some will use thier vote, but that's about it............

Kodiaz
February 9, 2006, 06:36 PM
If king jorge won't send the military then maybe the militia should go. I have some vacation time coming. My AR gets here tomorrow.:evil: :neener:

Biker
February 9, 2006, 06:38 PM
My buddy Rennie is the communcations lead for the Minutemen. aside from him, not many are doing anything other than grousing about it.............

Some will use thier vote, but that's about it............
Good. The vote is a powerful tool. Also check out the sites in my sig.
:)
Biker

horge
February 9, 2006, 06:52 PM
1.) All topics and posts must be related to firearms or civil liberties issues.

Your border issues are perhaps SUPREMELY relevant to KBA.
Potentially a test case of not only your federale government's (mis)understanding
of the Second Amendment, but of the American people's willingness to
fill the shoes of their forefathers:

If your standing army/bureaucracy will not protect American soil and American blood,
if it by inaction aids and abets this foreign violation of America,
the people are enabled --nay, instructed-- by the Second Amendment to
take up their arms in defense of freedom, as a skilled, well-organized militia.


JMforeigner'sO

cosine
February 9, 2006, 07:03 PM
Your border issues are perhaps SUPREMELY relevant to KBA.
Potentially a test case of not only your federale government's (mis)understanding
of the Second Amendment, but of the American people's willingness to
fill the shoes of their forefathers:

If your standing army/bureaucracy will not protect American soil and American blood,
if it by inaction aids and abets this foreign violation of America,
the people are enabled --nay, instructed-- by the Second Amendment to
take up their arms in defense of freedom, as a skilled, well-organized militia.


JMforeigner'sO

Yes, it looks as if this may be very important to civil rights and RKBA. I stand corrected.

tom barthel
February 9, 2006, 07:12 PM
I doubt our country will do anything unless Fort Hood is captured by Mexico or the cartels. It will take a MAJOR incident for the Govt. to take action. I just hope and pray it can be worked out peacefully. If it's to be a fight then so be it.

Art Eatman
February 9, 2006, 07:28 PM
Threads on this subject are fine with me, as long as the posts are pertinent. Smart remarks about Jorge Bush don't help. Yawping from behind a keyboard about going out and shooting doesn't help, either.

As far as civil rights, it seems to me that the 14th Amendment is at issue: "Equal protection under the law". The border residents don't seem to be getting that equal protection from "duly constituted authority".

Art

Rusher
February 9, 2006, 07:34 PM
Thanks Art for your understanding and for keeping this thread alive.

wingman
February 9, 2006, 08:08 PM
Threads on this subject are fine with me, as long as the posts are pertinent. Smart remarks about Jorge Bush don't help. Yawping from behind a keyboard about going out and shooting doesn't help, either.



Thanks Art, I believe this is an important subject and concerns all Americans.

Our governor today announced he was sending various law enforcement
people to the border to help secure the area. I suspect it has something
to do with coming elections however no matter the reason it is needed.

Art Eatman
February 9, 2006, 08:29 PM
I rather object to "renegade Mexican troops". They're likely not renegade at all. There is no such thing as a lack of knowledge on the part of officers. When guns are involved, knowledge means at least tacit approval, probably gained via mordida from the local narcotrafficante.

In some areas, the marijuana is grown under the protection and supervision of members of the military.

How do I come to believe this? 23 years on the border. Chit-chat with Border Patrol guys and the occasional knowlegeable LEO. Chit-chat "gossip" with folks who ramble back and forth across the border, sometimes living for a while in Mexico.

There are few secrets. It's just that Washington VIPs and the Sean Hannity types don't hang out, drink beer and talk to the locals who've been here for years.

Example: If you read Joaquin Jackson's book, "One Ranger", he speaks of his disbelief that Presidio County Rick Thompson was dirty. He'd known Rick for some three or four years at the time of the arrest for a metric ton of cocaine. The folks down here along the river had known Rick was dirty for over ten years before Joaquin ever met him...

Art

Standing Wolf
February 9, 2006, 08:56 PM
I rather object to "renegade Mexican troops". They're likely not renegade at all.

I'm reasonably sure the so-called "incursions" are made under orders from on high. Mexico is stepping up the political pressure on the United States.

Curiously, Mexico jealously guards its own southern border.

longeyes
February 9, 2006, 10:57 PM
It will take a MAJOR incident for the Govt. to take action.

You're right. Twenty million people entering our country illegally is barely a blip on the radar. Let's wait until it gets serious. Uh-huh. :mad:

Lupinus
February 10, 2006, 12:02 AM
You're right. Twenty million people entering our country illegally is barely a blip on the radar. Let's wait until it gets serious. Uh-huh.
I belive he was refering to mexican tanks parked in the driveway of the texas govenors mansion with a fat mexican general suning himself by the pool.

longeyes
February 10, 2006, 02:55 PM
I belive he was refering to mexican tanks parked in the driveway of the texas govenors mansion with a fat mexican general suning himself by the pool.

Arresting image. I can smell the cigar smoke wafting past the cabana. Somebody get the General a Remy Martin.

CAnnoneer
February 10, 2006, 03:06 PM
WashDC will do nothing until LEOs die at the border and a major newspaper blasts it about it. As usual, in politics how things look is far more important than how things are. :barf:

longeyes
February 10, 2006, 04:07 PM
WashDC will do nothing until LEOs die at the border and a major newspaper blasts it about it. As usual, in politics how things look is far more important than how things are.

I'm cynical enough to think even THAT won't change the situation. How many escaped Mexican felons have sought refuge back home in Mexico, some for truly atrocious crimes? How much pressure has "D.C." put on Mexico? How much coverage has this situation really gotten in the media?

The fix is in. Big money's involved here. Big political pressure. We're going to need a major upheaval of some kind to move the mountain.

El Tejon
February 10, 2006, 08:17 PM
Come on, guys. You really can't be serious? The Mexican Army invading the USA?:scrutiny:

The whipping the Mexicans took the last time? We still have a Mexican leg up here in the Midwest.:D The sorry state of the Mexican Army, and just what is in it for Mexico to start a war in which they would cease to exist?

Most of us in the gun culture know the US-Meixco border is violent as many of our gun culture icons served in the BP and had famous fights down there even if we never have been in sight of the border. The border is violent--O.K., we know, just like we know that D.C. or Gary, Indiana is. In fact it is far more violent in Chicago or New York City; do you want troops there as well?

The Border Brewhaha nonsense is simply a ploy for some states to stick their head in the federal money trough yet again. To whine and cry over a "problem" that has always existed in order to get more dinero that the states can use to buy votes and do nothing about the "border problem." All politics is money.:)

longeyes
February 10, 2006, 08:51 PM
There's a cheap and efficient way to stop the lawlessness on the border: de-criminalize/legalize the drug trade and wring the profit out of it.

As for illegal immigration, whole different story. I suggest we start by removing the carrot of social welfare--all forms, including health care and education--and massively toughening up the physical border. My personal view is that we need a moratorium on all immigration until we come up with a plan that advances the best interests of America and American citizens, both short-term and long-term.

El Tejon
February 10, 2006, 09:11 PM
long, O.K., sounds reasonable to me. Heck, I certainly have no argument with Congress' plenary power to do institute any sort of reforms, including a freeze on immigration, and we can argue and put to vote what should be done.

However, some of the anti-emmygrant rhetoric is just plain nutty (to me at least). War with Meheco? Come on. Don't think it helps you pro-reformers anywho.

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