[TheArchDuke]

If it was ever neccesary to get out of this country, what would be the best place to go? Or would that be unnacceptable to you? Would you stay and fight no matter what or eventually flee with your family?

Seems like this might be an interesting topic. I don't know if it's ever been discussed here before.


As little as I know about it, Switzerland seems like a beautiful and free country. But the way Europe is going, it won't stay that way for long.

[Technosavant]

If the US goes THAT wrong, there will be no safe havens. The USA isn't perfect, but we are in better shape than the alternatives. If the US goes down, Canada will join us. So will the UK and most of Western Europe.

And if that happens, you won't be just hopping a 747 to the nation of your choice.

[AirForceShooter]

Aye;
theres the rub.
Whats better?

I haven't found a better place.
At least one that I would live in.

AFS

[TheArchDuke]

If the US goes THAT wrong, there will be no safe havens. The USA isn't perfect, but we are in better shape than the alternatives. If the US goes down, Canada will join us. So will the UK and most of Western Europe.

And if that happens, you won't be just hopping a 747 to the nation of your choice.


That's true. How possible would it be to live out in the sticks somewhere without being detected? Like, totally living off of the land; log cabin and all?

[BigRobT]

That's true. How possible would it be to live out in the sticks somewhere without being detected? Like, totally living off of the land; log cabin and all?


THAT, my friend, depends on you and your skills. Personally, depending on what may have happened, I would probably just stay here and fight it out if necessary. I could use more ammo, though.

[KriegHund]

Antartica.

Seems likei mispelled that...

I'de be happy just to go up into the rockys and live.

[sumpnz]

If it was ever neccesary to get out of this country, what would be the best place to go?Mars. Seriously.

[Gunpacker]

Nah, when the hollywierds flee to the arab nation of their choice, the unwilling to fight for anything joining them, America will be worth fighting for. The cowards will find that they are not the fair haired children that they thought when they were the darlings of the international set, and that what they say has no meaning when not tearing up America from the inside. You must have rocks in your head.

[middy]

As little as I know about it, Switzerland seems like a beautiful and free country. But the way Europe is going, it won't stay that way for long.
Are you Swiss by descent? Married to a Swiss? Very rich?

No?

Good luck. :rolleyes:

[Technosavant]

That's true. How possible would it be to live out in the sticks somewhere without being detected? Like, totally living off of the land; log cabin and all?

I think it depends greatly on how hard "they" would be looking for you. If the powers that be don't care, you can live out there indefinitely. If they don't know you are doing it but might object, it would be pretty difficult to live anything approaching a comfortable life (no fires for fear of smoke cluing in the man, etc.). If they are hunting for you in an active manner, you won't make it a week if they have a clue where you are- you can't hide from a thermal scanner forever.

[RiverwinoIA]

since this is a fantasy question, ill respond with a fantasy answer.... i agree with Switzerland.

While visiting there i saw mine-laced border bridges, fighter jets and artillery training in the mountians, nude women in the mainstream media, good pot being sold out of legitmate businesses, and a rifle range in every little village... and thought.. hmmm these are my kinda people. :neener:

Overall they have their act together and are truly progressive (in a good way). They have more of a real democracy than we do.

[middy]

Have you ever looked at a map of Canada? There's a whole lot of nothing up there. Head North. Disappear. The riff-raff can't stand real winters. ;)

[AJ Dual]

As everyone before said, even with some sort of horrible SHTF government, or takeover, etc., you're better off in an area where you understand the people/culture, the language, the terrain, the weather, the resources etc.

The notion of "somewhere to go" comes from the international news where refugees are common. (and I'm talking political/war/genocide/collapse, not Katrina/natural disaster…) You're talking about generaly much smaller nations with closer borders, where your choices are between your native third-world pesthole where everyone's getting slaughtered, to the neighboring third-world pesthole where nobody's getting killed that month. Then taking a long walk in the opposite direction of TS and TF, and looking for some UN grain bags makes more sense.

The only exception to this is if you're lucky enough to have dual-citizenship, family, friends, and resources in some non-bordering and desireable (first world, or decent second-world) nation that's safely out of the fray. But then, you have to time it to get out before things get bad. And then you have to fight the natural human instinct to hunker down and hope things get better. Generaly, when things aren't bad enough that you can leave, things don't look bad enough that you have to leave.

That's the catch-22.

[Thefabulousfink]

If it was ever neccesary to get out of this country, what would be the best place to go? .

The Rocky Mountains with all the ammo I could carry....


Wolverines!:D

[Vern Humphrey]

I took an oath a long time ago to defend this country, and no one ever told me it had an expiration date. If push comes to shove, I'll be doing my best to expend every round I've got loaded up.

[geekWithA.45]

I once told someone who was despairing the current state of America this:


"Sure, it could still come down to you, me, and a bunch of other guys back to back playing skeet with jdams somewhere in the Rockies, but we're so far from that necessity. A lot of stuff is looking up. As far as the hopes of human freedom goes, We're IT."

[Lennyjoe]

I whole heartly agree with Vern on this one.

[engineer151515]

Never took the oath.

But I'm an American. And I'm with Vern.

I stay with the ship.

[WayneConrad]

As for living off the land: I have a hunch that the carrying capacity of the wild places cannot support the numbers of us who, in an oh-my-God scenario, would like to build a cabin and eat Bambi and Thumper while waiting out the crisis. Someone planning to survive as a hunter/gatherer must, I think, be prepared to shoot anyone who makes use of the rather large tract of land they will need to sustain their family.

(Edited to add): I believe you need somewhere between one and five square miles per person, depending upon the place, to be a hunter gatherer. You won't have many neighbors.

[Biker]

I took an oath a long time ago to defend this country, and no one ever told me it had an expiration date. If push comes to shove, I'll be doing my best to expend every round I've got loaded up.
Could not have said it better.
Biker

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

There are plenty of places in the world that are more free than the US. It isn't necessary to find a government that doesn't want to interfere with its citizens. The key is to find a government that isn't able to bother you. Most governments simply don't have the resources to interject itself in the lives of its citizens as much as our government does.

Rural Mexico would be an easy and obvious place to go to if you ever get tired of government busybodies telling you what to do/say/think. So would just about any other 2nd or 3rd world country. Take your pick.

[Vern Humphrey]

There are plenty of places in the world that are more free than the US. It isn't necessary to find a government that doesn't want to interfere with its citizens. The key is to find a government that isn't able to bother you. Most governments simply don't have the resources to interject itself in the lives of its citizens as much as our government does.

Rural Mexico would be an easy and obvious place to go to if you ever get tired of government busybodies telling you what to do/say/think. So would just about any other 2nd or 3rd world country. Take your pick.

But as a gringo you'd stand out like a sore thumb in Mexico, and they'd arrest you for simply owning a gun.

[1911Tuner]

I took an oath a long time ago to defend this country, and no one ever told me it had an expiration date. If push comes to shove, I'll be doing my best to expend every round I've got loaded up.


oorah

[Oleg Volk]

If things are truly bad, it would make sense to move to the home of the person(s) responsible for the mess and eliminate them. Repeat as long as possible. Fleeing is more dangerous than staying and filling hell with bad people.

[Kodiaz]

I don't think my grandfather came here from Cuba with my parents so I would have to run somewhere else. I get my AR tomorrow I'm staying. Someone else will be joining the SS, the centurions, and the ATF in hell.

[HerrWolfe]

What Vern said....my country...love it :) :) :) and then love it some more!

[depicts]

So many of us have taken that oath as we entered the military, it makes me wonder...are we in fact discaharged from it now that we are discharged.

I don't mean to steal the thread, but has there ever been any kind of legal decision about this? Are we still technically "Sworn members" of the armed forces?

[losangeles]

Depends on the situation. If it was nuke, I'd go somewhere as far away as possible on the globe to avoid nuke contamination. Whereever that is, I'd try to make the best of the situation.

If it was the bubonic plague, or a type of avian flu that kills off a billion of the world's population, I'd do like someone suggests -- Antarctica or whereveer there's not a lot of people for hundreds of miles radius. My family would sit it out for years or decades until the germs subside.

We're not sitting around getting contaminated just to stay here.

If it was more of a conventional invasion by a horde of enemies, yeah, I'd be with the other people fighting to the end, to the last drop of our blood. Nukes and germ contamination, though, are different.

[Vern Humphrey]

If things are truly bad, it would make sense to move to the home of the person(s) responsible for the mess and eliminate them. Repeat as long as possible. Fleeing is more dangerous than staying and filling hell with bad people.

They say as Benjamin Franklin was leaving the Constitutional Convention, a woman asked him, "Well, Doctor Frankliin, what sort of a government have you given us?"

And he replied, "A republic, Madam, if you can keep it."

Shame on us if we don't keep it.

[springmom]

Hee hee hee. Y'all just come on down. Be sure and bring your guns. :D :D :D

Springmom

[1911Tuner]

Quote:

So many of us have taken that oath as we entered the military, it makes me wonder...are we in fact discharged from it now that we are discharged.

I don't mean to steal the thread, but has there ever been any kind of legal decision about this? Are we still technically "Sworn members" of the armed forces?
******************

Legal doesn't enter into it...at least not as far as I'm concerned. An oath
to defend to the death means just that, and only my death discharges me from it.

Others may have different views.

[Biker]

We share the same views here, 1911 Tuner.
Biker

[danurve]

Depends on the situation. If it was nuke, I'd go somewhere as far away as possible on the globe to avoid nuke contamination. Whereever that is, I'd try to make the best of the situation.

If it was the bubonic plague, or a type of avian flu that kills off a billion of the world's population, I'd do like someone suggests -- Antarctica or whereveer there's not a lot of people for hundreds of miles radius. My family would sit it out for years or decades until the germs subside.

We're not sitting around getting contaminated just to stay here.

If it was more of a conventional invasion by a horde of enemies, yeah, I'd be with the other people fighting to the end, to the last drop of our blood. Nukes and germ contamination, though, are different.

Purty good argument.
Not trying to sound to funny but as far as germ contamination goes - lets say somone like hillary runs for office..

[Standing Wolf]

I believe I'd be inclined to go to Texas.

[Sam]

I'm with Vern.

Sam

[1911Tuner]

I believe I'd be inclined to go to Texas.

I'd be inclined to head for the mountains. 'Course, I'm a mountain boy anyway, so I'd be right at home there. The man holdin' the high ground generally has the edge.

[Mannlicher]

I have to agree with Techosavant. If we are screwed, there won't be any place safe to go.

[1911Tuner]

I have to agree with Techosavant. If we are screwed, there won't be any place safe to go.

Yep. Might as well stand and fight.

[Nightfall]

Too bad there isn't another easily habitable planet in the solar system. We ran outta room too quick on this rock. Nowhere left to go for those who want to start fresh, like our Founding Fathers did.

[Jubei]

"Dry your eyes - and quietly bear this pain with pride
for heaven shall remember the silent and the brave
and promise me, they will never see the fear within our eyes
we will give strength to those who still remain
So bury fear for fate draws near
and hide the signs of pain
with noble acts, the bravest souls
endure the heart's remains
discard regret, that in this debt
a better world is made
that children of a newer day
might remember, and avoid our fate
And in the fury of this darkest hour, we will be your light
you've asked me for my sacrifice, and I am Winterborn
without denying, a faith is come
that I have never known
I hear the angels call my name
and I am Winterborn"
-Cruxshadows

We fight for what we believe, I stay.

Jubei

[Vern Humphrey]

Yep. Might as well stand and fight.

I was born in this country and always figured to be buried here. The only question is, when?:D

[Trebor]

There is no better country for individual freedoms. Even with the country's problems, there is no where better to go. This is it, so we need to work to make it better in our lives.

[hso]

and this is gun related, how?

[shermacman]

When it is time to flee America, I will flee to America.

I know that from the people on this forum, there will be those I would fight with and fight for.

[progunner1957]

I took an oath a long time ago to defend this country, and no one ever told me it had an expiration date. If push comes to shove, I'll be doing my best to expend every round I've got loaded up.
+10,000 and HOOYAH!!

We ex-mil types may be a bit older and slower, but we can still make the lead fly with the best of 'em.

And if the day comes when the SHTF, we will be more cold-blooded and treacherous than you can ever imagine.

Uncle Sugar, DON'T put us to the test!!:evil: :evil:

[1911Tuner]

+10,000 and HOOYAH!!

We ex-mil types may be a bit older and slower, but we can still make the lead fly with the best of 'em.


Most of us will take a stand 'cause we're just too damned old and tired to run...:D

[Biker]

Most of us will take a stand 'cause we're just too damned old and tired to run...:D
Hell, I was tryin' to put a better spin on it than that! I can still do a 40 second 40!

[dracphelan]

I took an oath a long time ago to defend this country, and no one ever told me it had an expiration date. If push comes to shove, I'll be doing my best to expend every round I've got loaded up.

I agre totally. I may have received a medical discharge way to early in my service, but I still hold myself to that oath. So, as they came to take me, I would start singing:

"Axes flash, broadsword swing,
Shining armour's piercing ring
Horses run with polished shield,
Fight Those Bastards till They Yield
Midnight mare and blood red roan,
Fight to Keep this Land Your Own
Sound the horn and call the cry,
How Many of Them Can We Make Die!"
http://www.heatherlands.com/seafire/pages/frames.html?http%3A//www.heatherlands.com/seafire/pages/lyrics.php

[Technosavant]

Yep. Might as well stand and fight.

Well, not so much stand on our lonesomes. The movements I would consider making would be to:
1) rendevous with fellow like-minded individuals (like yourselves)
2) head for a convenient area of operations.

But heading for another country? Out of the question. If we lose all our freedoms here, they will have been lost already by those elsewhere in the world.

[glockamolee]

Because I have the Peace of the Lord Jesus in my life, I can go anywhere (thinking and acting prudently and wisely), and I will be protected. I do not say this as "I can knowingly jump in front of a train and the Lord will save me" kind of thing.

That being said, I think it comes down to 'LOCAL CULTURE. Whatever nation I fled to (and I won't because I took my oath and it applies to me for life, not just my Army time), I would want to be knowledgable with the "lower middle class/poor" type of people. THEY WILL protect you IF IF IF they like you.

The Basques in Spain and France verses the Parisians and those who live in Barcelona.

Put another way, make friends with the Provincial Proletariet types, verses the "Yuppie" types. Working men will protect even a foriegner if that foriegner is a working man who "speaks the lingo."

[TheArchDuke]

Are you Swiss by descent? Married to a Swiss? Very rich?

No?

Good luck. :rolleyes:


I'm Swiss. But my family has been in America for 3 or 4 generations.

[TheArchDuke]

This thread is inspiring.

[Herself]

Book my ticket to the Moon! Always grab the high ground if you can. Or, as the construction lads warn, "Headache!" See the works of Robert A. Heinlein or H. Beam Piper for explaination.

Seriously, if the States go belly-up, I expect I will die in the Troubles, doing my job: keeping some of The Broadcast Media on the air. And if not that, die when they raid my "amory," a shoebox full of inexpensive handguns and a grocery bag half full of magazine plus a rifle or so two, way scary stuff. (A locked shoebox lagscrewed to the floor and wall in an Undisclosed Location, mind you).

Why leave the States when I can have it all here? But swelp me, if I die for Buddy's Carpet and the Noon News, y'all'd darned well better be buying new flooring after things settle down, okay?

--Herself

[Biker]

Yup, no one chases me from my home. This is where it stops.
I love this Country.
Biker

[ReadyontheRight]

I'm with Vern.

"Does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave over the land of the free and the home of the brave?"

That question is being asked of US.

It's ours to lose. I say we keep it.

[Moondoggie]

The technical/legal answer to the "expiration of service obligation" is: 8 yrs from the first time you hoist your paw.

I view it as a lifetime commitment, as others have stated.

Heading out to Montana or some other place AKA "parts unknown" might be OK for the short term, but most of us wouldn't fare too well for more than a few months. Not something to look forward to.

Staying put and doing whatever is necessary would be my first choice.

If I HAD to pick another location on the planet I'd lean toward some island in the S Pacific...at least I'd never have to worry about freezing to death. The more sparsely populated, the better.

[Kim]

I will stay and fight. I had this conversation with my 73y/o mother and she said she would be willing to blow the bridges if necessary.. I was kinda shocked as she is the kindest woman who never says a bad word about anyone. She said I should build a bunker into the walls of our rock querry and stock up.

[Gunpacker]

Who are you really ArchDuke? Tom Cruise?? Alec Baldwin???

[SMLE]

I may die, but I'll never run. My bones will rest in the land my Fathers paid for with their blood. Anything less is cowardice.

[el44vaquero]

I have a little boy...If he is not dead, tell him the last words of his father were that he must never go beyond the Father of Waters, but die in the land of his birth. It is sweet to die in one's native land and be buried by the margins of one's native stream.- Tsali, Cherokee Medicine Man awaiting execution, 1838.

[Art Eatman]

Mel Tappan did a fairly thorough job of thinking about it and then writing, back some thirty years ago.

Back then, "Survivalism"; nowadays, "SHTF". But, same basic deal. Just no USSR and ICBMs, now.

Art

[Tom Servo]

If the cause was environmental collapse (chemical/nuclear/biological strike), and even rural areas were unsafe, I could always go back to Denmark and live out a hopelessly boring life giving 75% of my income back to the government so they could give it to those who chose not to work. At least I'd have a chance, but I'd miss the U.S. bitterly.

If the cause was political...here I stand. Not sure if I really believe all the cornball stuff about Valhalla, but I'd go down fighting for something truly important.

[TheArchDuke]

Who are you really ArchDuke? Tom Cruise?? Alec Baldwin???


Haha no. I'm not advocating running away, I was just thinking about how everyone comes here when their countries are ruined and I got to thinking "What if we weren't here? Where would they go?" The I realized that we're kind of in that situation. Then I was just curious what you guys would think. I must say, I was inspired but not surprised.

[Deathrider1579]

Me and th' boys have decided if things go so far out the window (we use different language mind you) that even Texas is falling, we are going and takeing over mexico!

It would be fun, for years they have been sneaking illeagles into our country I guess it would be our turn!

-DR

[carlrodd]

I took an oath a long time ago to defend this country, and no one ever told me it had an expiration date. If push comes to shove, I'll be doing my best to expend every round I've got loaded up.


+1 vern. if everybody bugs out we'll be in it deep. you might be better off in a city anyway. east coast cities are BIG, some of em.....sprawling landscapes themselves. and that's where people will be fighting it out anyway. good to be amongst friends. home's home, and i ain't leavin.

[V4Vendetta]

If it was a disaster like a flood or something nuclear, I'd live somewhere like Alaska with no people for 200 miles. Nobody's going to waste a expensive nucluear missile just to get 1 guy. I hope. I'd eat what I caught, cut wood for heat. If I had any free time I'd read or play darts.:)

If I had to live in another country, I'd pick Switzerland or someplace with low humidity. I'd prefer to stay right where I am though. I like NC. I have friends & family here. I know the best places to eat & best parks to visit. If we were invaded by some country like North Korea* for example, I'd probably go hide. I know some good spots.;)


*I consider this a real possibility.