(KY) Bill seeks exemption to prosecution for having guns in schools


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Drizzt
February 10, 2006, 02:07 AM
Bill seeks exemption to prosecution for having guns in schools
BRUCE SCHREINER
Associated Press

FRANKFORT, Ky. - Gun-rights activists want to protect people from being prosecuted for bringing weapons onto school grounds that don't display "No guns allowed" signs. On Thursday, they won backing from a Senate committee.

National Rifle Association official Darren LaSorte said the bill is aimed at law-abiding people carrying guns onto property they don't know is owned by schools.

"That person can still be charged and convicted for a felony," he told the Senate Judiciary Committee. "This is very serious stuff."

The bill cleared the committee despite opposition from a couple of senators who worried that it would weaken the hand of law enforcement.

"If we pass this bill, we're going to have a loophole you could drive a Mack truck through, and it's going to make prosecution almost impossible" for carrying guns onto school grounds, said Sen. Ernesto Scorsone, D-Lexington.

He said state law protects those who unknowingly possess a gun on school property.

"But if you do it knowingly, or if you're a kid bringing a gun into school, or you're an adult walking into a school with a gun, you've got no business doing that," Scorsone said.

The bill's supporters said some schools don't properly warn people against possessing weapons. If the bill becomes law, people found with weapons on school grounds failing to post the signs would be asked to leave and wouldn't face prosecution and the chance of spending five years in prison.

Sen. Gerald Neal, D-Louisville, said he worried the bill would be too restrictive for police officers who encounter someone with a weapon who appears suspicious.

"I want them to be in a position to do something, and not just ask somebody to leave the property," said Neal, who also voted against the bill.

The bill would require schools to clearly post no-gun signs at all entrances to school buildings, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias. Under current law, schools are expected to display the signs in "prominent locations," including gyms and cafeterias.

Sen. Ray Jones, a bill supporter, said it's easy for someone with a permit to carry a concealed weapon to forget they have the gun when walking onto school property that doesn't properly warn people to leave their weapons behind.

"And all of a sudden they're a felon," said Jones, D-Pikeville.

Another section of the bill would allow hunters onto rural lands owned by school districts that aren't properly posted as closed to hunting.

To end any confusion, Neal suggested strong vigilance by the state to make sure schools properly post the no-weapons signs.

Scorsone said he respected people's gun ownership rights.

"Just leave it in the car when you get to the school," he said. "Don't take it inside. That's not too much."

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/state/13830598.htm

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beerslurpy
February 10, 2006, 02:40 AM
Oh noes, prosecution will become impossible unless people actually do bad things. How we hamstring law enforcement with the needless requirement that people first commit actual crimes instead of providing strict liability felonies for people to innocently violate.

SMMAssociates
February 10, 2006, 01:43 PM
Locally, our High School has a "rear entrance" to it's parking areas (the place is rather like a large mall on about 30 acres between two major roadways) that an out-of-town visitor might not recognize as school property.

The signs (I'm not sure there is one at that entrance) are extremely difficult to read.

Perfect place to trap the unwary if somebody was in that kind of mood.

However, yet again, we're dealing with blissninny rules against carrying in places I paid for.... The net result is increasing the danger to anybody who's in the "Welcome Criminals" zones. :fire:

After all, those signs really do such a great job of keeping out the Bad Guys.... (Just ask the folks at that Postal center....) :cuss:

Regards,

Thefabulousfink
February 10, 2006, 02:47 PM
Scorsone said he respected people's gun ownership rights.

"Just leave it in the car when you get to the school," he said. "Don't take it inside. That's not too much."


Idiot!:cuss:

The whole idea is for when people don't know that property belongs to a school, and there are no signs posted. Why should you leave your gun in your car if you are not aware that it is illegal.


Not to mention the violations of 2A and the princilples of CCW that arise from banning the carry of guns in certain locations.:barf:

Car Knocker
February 10, 2006, 03:46 PM
you're an adult walking into a school with a gun, you've got no business doing that

Why not, Senator Scorsone? Why should only criminals be allowed to bring guns into schools?

Standing Wolf
February 10, 2006, 09:28 PM
I guess kids' lives aren't worth protecting in Kentucky.

Gun Wielding Maniac
February 11, 2006, 01:56 PM
I guess kids' lives aren't worth protecting in Kentucky.

I dont know where you are getting this from. It is federal law which prohibits the carrying of firearms in public schools.

This law is meant to protect people who go onto school grounds that are unmarked, while carrying. All in all, not a bad idea.

Car Knocker
February 11, 2006, 02:30 PM
It is federal law which prohibits the carrying of firearms in public schools.

To be specific, 18 U.S.C. 922(q). However, 18 U.S.C. 922(2)(B)(ii) makes an exception "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the state or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;"

SMMAssociates
February 11, 2006, 04:04 PM
Don:

Here in OH, the State seems to have followed the view that a CHL doesn't count as "licensed" in terms of the Federal regulation. (Ooops - OH's CHL is valid for the purposes of "driving by" the school. I'm not sure the Federal regs still require that.)

Same sort of foolishness as the Post Office, which appears to have the same rule. OH says no, but the PO says "OK"....

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.... :fire:

However, the thread covers a situation that may be of value. Common sense should cover an accidental incursion into School property even when it's a CPZ ("Criminal Protection Zone"), but you can't count on it - the bill in question appears to guarantee it.

Regards,

Standing Wolf
February 11, 2006, 09:52 PM
It is federal law which prohibits the carrying of firearms in public schools.

People with permits can keep and bear arms in schools in Utah.

Car Knocker
February 11, 2006, 11:14 PM
People with permits can keep and bear arms in schools in Utah.

To be a bit more accurate, let's change that to "public schools" and concealed carry. Private schools can legally prohibit firearms on their private property; it's not illegal to carry but they can eject a person who is carrying through the use of the trespassing ordinances.

At least some of the school districts have formulated policies that allow employees to carry concealed with the proviso that the district assumes no liability from a permitee's actions.

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