[Bruz]

OK, I have read all the threads on sharpening, understand the principals, bought a Spyderco so I have the equiptment...why can't I get my knives "Scarey Sharp"? Is it more than doing the mechanics, is it an art?

Thought I had it down, practicing with my older knives with good steel. Got to where I could take the hair off my arm. Got a couple new knives and now understand the term "hair poping" sharp. The hairs jump away from the knife and pop off my arm. I have back beveled, beveled from 15 to 35 degrees, keep working with my other knives and just can't get it. Any tricks to the trade?

[SteelyDan]

Sigh... I'm in the same position as you. I can get them "adequately sharp," but nowhere near as sharp as the factory can. The experts say it's largely a matter of practice (with some knowledge thrown in), but it's sure frustrating in the meantime.

[brownie0486]

With the spyder kit, use the dark ceramics longer.

You can lose the primary bevel/angle by not keeping the knife held straight up and down on the sticks. Your strokes/passes over the sticks need to be consistant.

I use some pressure against the sticks for ahile if it is dull and that cuts the time some.

Use the lighter sticks to "polish" the edge further afterwards. The fine sticks will take forever to get a good edge otherwise.

Only knives I could not get an edge on were a Sog Pentagon and a spyder Military in ats-55 after sharpening over 5000 knives.

Brownie

[Al Thompson]

My first exposure to ATS-34 threw me for a loop. AFAIK, several of the newer steels require a lot longer sharpening times than traditional steel. Could that be the problem?

[yankytrash]

In the cabinet shop, here's the rules we used for "scary sharp" chisels/plane blades that will last one session:

Always sharpen 30 degrees, then give the edge a 13-15 degree.
Work only one side to get your edge. Do not stop grinding/honing until all, and I mean ALL, signs of old metal are gone.
After all old metal is gone, one quick flat pass on the opposite side to remove the burr is necessary. Might be necessary to recatch the burr on the side you sharpened. If you roll it, start over.
After grinding, but before polishing, hold the knife in a way where you can look directly at the edge in the light. If there's any light bouncing off the edge, you're not done, or you've messed up. Start over. Do the same after the polishing step just to be sure.
Always polish after both the 30 degree cut and then the 15 degree cut. Don't decide to polish it after you've got it all ground down, you'll mess it up.


However, no matter what anyone says, this edge will not last. In my experience, it'll take about a day's use or less. On a typical knife, the edge'll certainly impress your friends, but don't expect to be cuttin 2" manila rope with it by end of the day.
Admittedly, I use on of those quick-pass knife sharpeners for my knife. Gives an adequate edge for daily use, it's easy enough to do every morning/evening, and requires no measurements. Also easy enough to carry one in your truck for sharpening as you need to, anytime. When I want a little more, I follow the one-pass with a quick honing from a hand stone, creating a secondary edge as above.


Always remember to keep the stone on a flat surface and work the knife, not the other way around.

[hso]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8341

For the Sharpmaker be sure to keep the blade vertical. I use the coarse sticks with a narrow separation until the blade slides then reset to the wider separation and sharpen until the "slide" occurs again. I follow the same approach on the fine sticks for about 60-80 strokes at each separation. I feel for a wire edge at the end and then take one final light stroke to remove the bulk of that. I then strop on a leather strop I lay flat for another dozen or so stokes. While I get an edge that will shave smooth I don't have the patience to get the hair popping edge JOB can produce. His edges will catch and pop hair without touching skin! That's my reference point for sharp.

[rennaissancemann]

With patience and a light touch, you can put a "scary sharp" edge on any knife made with good steel and a decent temper. However comma. This kind of edge is great for bragging rights and micro surgery, but won't last any time at all in general use. It's an 80/20 thing, you can get 80% of a scary sharp edge in 20% of the time, but if you want that last 20% you're going to spent an additional 80% of your time getting there and the edge you get for your labors won't last through a normal steak dinner.

HSO
Thanks for the unsolicited testimonial.


Respectfully,

[sonny]

I wonder if anyone else has been through my experience with knife sharpening.............I sharpen hand tools at work often...chisells,block plane blades and similar things on a weekly basis.....I can sharpen them to be scary sharp with my eyes closed on a flat diamond stone... (norton)...(expensive)....but I always seemed to have a problem with my knives?
I could not figure out what my problem was until it finally hit me.
I was so concerned with scratching the sides of my precious blades that I would hesitate in letting my natural (stroke) kick in.
Let's face it ....some knives are for using ...some knives are collectable investments.....well...at least for me.
The USERS get sharpened aggresively on a diamond stone by hand.....LEARN HOW TO DO IT ....and finished off on my sharpmaker........I am not afraid to scatch the sides of my blades when the initial aggresive cutting is being done(I'll admit it):)
It takes all of 5 minutes once a week.
As far as doing a "Perfect" job...It can be done ...but it takes time.
The knifes I carry to work are always sharp as hell and they they look USED and thats fine with me because they cut anything I ask them to......usually a benchmade 710 axis lock and or a spiderco police serrated.
I hope my advice is helpfull and if you just DIG IN you may be suprised at the results .....remember THE SONNY method should be used on knives that are not meant for resale or collectable purposes but it is guarenteed to make your knives SCARY SHARP!

P.S. I mean no disrespect to the term scary sharp.... I am familiar with the term and I hope my variation of the term is understood.

[JohnKSa]

I was so concerned with scratching the sides of my precious blades that I would hesitate in letting my natural (stroke) kick in.
An excellent point, and one that is rarely made.

I've had one or two sharpening failures--the most notable was trying to get a decent edge on some foreign bayonet that had a blade with a diamond cross-section. The diamond was so wide that I was going to have to practically regrind the whole blade to be able to get an edge profile that would really cut. I gave up on it pretty quickly.

Brownie,

I thought the Spyderco Military knives used that CPM something or other steel?

[gryphon]

Just posted about the Lanskey system in another thread. I had zero experience with sharpening. After a brief lesson, I was able to get the edges on 2 balisongs sharp enough to shave with. The system comes with 5 stones, oil, and a bracketing system. The bracketing system allows for different angles of sharpening and prevents the sides of the blade from getting swirl marks of scrapes from the stones.

Best $30 I've spent in a long time.

[ahadams]

JohnKSa has a good point: not all bayonets are intended to be gotten scarey sharp. I've run into some soviet and asian ones that looked like they'd be lucky to punch through a rib cage with the point and the edges and metal quality looked like they'd been issued to folks whose leadership was more afraid of them cutting themselves than anything else.

[Dave Williams]

The only knife I haven't been able to sharpen to shaving sharpness with my Sharpmaker was a Gerber EZ OUT. Don't know why. But my knives don't get to that next level, scary sharp, like a Strider AR or GB out of the wrapper.

I had a Gatco system(copy of Lansky), and had no success with it.

The sharpest knife that resulted from my sharpening was a CRKT Ryan 7, I was able to get that VERY sharp for some reason, using the 30 degree angle on the Sharpmaker.

Dave

[brownie0486]

JohnKSa:

You are correct. They now use the CPM steels in the military models presently.

That model started out with ats-34 [ which I have ], then they tried the ats-55 and now we're at the cpm steel in that model.

Anything ats-55 that comes across to be sharpened I now send to someone who wants to spend the time on them.

Brownie

[JohnKSa]

Does that improve or degrade your opinion of ATS-55?

Also, have you tried to sharpen one of the CPM blades? They are supposed to be very difficult to sharpen, but I haven't sprung for one to find out.

[Bruz]

OK, now I am getting mad...worked on a blade for an hour, followed all the steps, watched all the angles, just can't get it "scarey" sharp like some from the factory. I resharpened the knife on my Spyderco to both of the angels provided, it shaves hair, but can not get that hair popping sharp.

What angles do yall use? Do you do a back grind or just leave it at one angle? Do the factory knives have some Japaneze guys in the back polishing them or do they use a grinder?

[brownie0486]

You could not give me an ats-55 bladed knife.

I sharpen regularly at the gun club on Sunday mornings and have seen and sharpened a lot of steels. Experienced through years of doing it [ for money ].

That ats-55 police model I sold a guy and who needed it sharpened later was just one PITA and after an hour I said "no more".

If it's ats-55, I tell them to go elsewhere for sharpening, won't even attempt it.

I don't see much being made of that steel anymore and it seems like it only lasted a short time on a few models and then was changed out for the newer cpm's.

It was supposed to be surperior, to me it's junk.


Brownie

[Joe Talmadge]

What angles do yall use? Do you do a back grind or just leave it at one angle? Do the factory knives have some Japaneze guys in the back polishing them or do they use a grinder?

I use 15 degrees, then do a light double-grind at 20 degrees to finish off the burr.

Let's start with the fundamentals: Are you raising a burr along the entire length of one side of the edge, then switching sides and repeating? The burr method is the only way to guarantee you'll get a scary sharp edge along the entire length.

Joe

[Bruz]

Are you raising a burr along the entire length of one side of the edge, then switching sides and repeating?

Yep, did the burr on both sides with the coarse stick, then did the same with the fine. I used the 15 degree angle but did not do the secondary angle assuming that it would be sharper at the steepest angle...think I will try another knife, the one I was sharpening must be defective. :rolleyes:

[Bruz]

I did it! Just wanted to post to those who don't think they can do it, it takes practice. Took a while to learn how to keep the same angle the entire length of the blade, that learned and practiced should make it where any one can do it. Stropping is more important than I thought it would be also...changed my knife from shaving sharp to hair popping sharp.

[brownie0486]

Bruz:

Congrats. Now you can have scary sharp anytime you want. Practice makes perfect, it's only a matter of time.

Brownie

[tech]

I have to agree, that level of sharpness does not last long in the real world. Nice to impress but just try working with it all day. You will wish you had a moderate working edge before 5.

Mike

[Bruz]

Nice to impress but just try working with it all day.


The only work I do with my knives is opening envelopes and disecting my plastic Pepsi bottles at night, but that does bring up a good point...for self defense, which is why I want the knife as sharp as possible, is that the edge I really want? Makes sense but if someone is attacking me and my blade is being struck by the guys knuckles or knife blade or stick or whatever would the fine edge get too damaged? Could a less sharp and less severe angle potentially be better?

[tech]

Bruz: if my knife were for defense only, I would take a hair poping sharp one. I would think that the edge would hold out long enough for me to get the job done. Since getting my CCW I find myself forgeting my knife sometimes. Seems like I can only remember a set # of items. I will have a knife or pistol on me at all times though, if not both.

Mike

[brownie0486]

Bruz:

Keep the knife scary sharp if for defensive purposes.
You will need every advantage if you are utilizing it in that venue.

Plenty of time to resharpen later after the perp has been carted away.

Scary sharp isn't the best for general purposes cutting as others have mentioned. It is best for saving your butt and getting through clothes.

Brownie

[Bonker]

I'm in the same boat. The 7" Cold Steel hunting knife I bought a few years ago never gets used because I can't sharpen it.

It was the sharpest knife I've ever held when it was new, no exaggeration.

I played with it for a day by hacking through pine 2x2 wood until it was dull. It's never been sharp since and I've tried everything.

It's made of Carbon V steel.


The only thing I haven't tried is a belt sander and a strop which I will try soon.

I don't see why everyone says the edge won't last. It took me HOURS of constant hacking to dull my knife when I bought it.