.308 vs. 30.06


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noresttill
February 10, 2006, 07:07 PM
I will be looking for a pump rifle soon (carbine?) and was wondering what round would be best power vs. accuracy.

My GF's stepdad has a 1903, so Id prefer a 30.06 for reloading purposes.

Just thought I'd ask

Thanks

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Infidel
February 10, 2006, 07:15 PM
The only pump action rifle I'm aware of is the Remington 7600 and its predecessors, and I think that it only comes in a long action, so the .308 doesn't offer any advantage in that rifle.

ArmedBear
February 10, 2006, 07:18 PM
The two rounds are pretty similar. The .308 was designed as a short-action replacement for the .30-06, as new powders became available. The .30-06 is still a bit more versatile, with a larger case, so you can play with loads more. And it can be loaded with heavier bullets. Commercially available high-power .30-06 ammo (Buffalo Bore and Hornady) approaches .300 Win Mag ballistics for big game, but you can also get low-recoil ammo (Remington and Federal) that works fine on deer to 200 yards. You can even get high-velocity saboted .223 rounds in .30-06, for smaller game.

.30-06 is hard to beat as a do-everything hunting round. The military just wanted something that would be smaller so it would be easier to carry more rounds, and so automatic and semiautomatic actions could be more compact. Neither one matters for your purposes, especially since the Remington 7600, the only pump rifle still commonly available, has the same size and weight action for either round.

ATAShooter
February 10, 2006, 07:31 PM
Remington Gamemaster 760 is what James Earl Ray used in 30-06. And all your Garands ( with the exception of the re-chambered ones). Don't get me wrong, I like 308's alot, but 30-06 is a heck of a round.

thatguy
February 10, 2006, 08:22 PM
The .308 is probably 95% or so of the longer .30-06. The only real question is do you want a full-length action (06) or a short one (308)? Choose the rifle you want and either caliber will work fine.

noresttill
February 10, 2006, 09:51 PM
Thanks, those are the answers that I wanted to hear.

About how much does a Rem 7600 run? Ill check out gun broker, too.

Sunray
February 11, 2006, 12:34 AM
Ballistically they're identical. However, the .308 is inherently more accurate. That being said, a pump action is a hunting rifle and won't come close to the accuracy of any bolt action. Never mind a Springfield.
Any special reason you're looking at a pump? Just curious, but you'll find it won't be as accurate as a bolt action.

Nematocyst
February 11, 2006, 01:02 AM
That being said, a pump action... you'll find it won't be as accurate as a bolt action. I gotta agree with Sunray here.

A while back, I was enamoured of a pump rifle (i.e., Remington 7600) because its action was based on my 870P.

Then, thanks to knowledge gained from many THR members, I realized that the action I choose in my rifle depends upon what I want to use said rifle for.

HD/SD? Give me my 870P (pump) shotgun. (YMMV)

Meat procurement in the form of birds or rabbits? Give me a pump shotgun.
(26" barrel on my 870.)

Meat procurement in the form of deer, goat, antelope or (even) elk?
Give me a bolt action rifle in 7mm08, .308, .30-06 or something similar. (YMMV)

So, here's the question: what do you want to use this .308 or .30-06 rifle for?

Nem

rockstar.esq
February 11, 2006, 01:26 AM
Most of the Ballistics have been mentioned but I'd like to add that the .308 has more different action types chambered for it than the 06. As for reloading, the die set required to handle your caliber would run you less than $30.00 and you'll find that the components are the same or less than the 06. If you have any intention of starting a collection of different rifles all chambered in the same caliber the .308 stands tall in this regard. There are a host of lever actions, slide actions, break actions, semiautos and TONS of bolt actions so chambered. The final point I'd like to make is that the .308 mil surplus ammo is cheaper than the .06 so you'd get to have a lot more fun with less money.

noresttill
February 11, 2006, 02:18 AM
I may be moving to Kali eventually, so to avoid the "assault weapon thing" I wanted a non-semi.

I wanted a larger cartride so that I could hunt with it without worry of range and accuracy.

The pump beats the bolt for defense as you dont take your hands off the ready and Ive come to the conclusion that I dont really like the lever.

I very well could be flawed in my knowledge though. If so I will take no offense in getting set straight.


Thanks everyone,
Jesse

noresttill
February 11, 2006, 02:20 AM
I also thought the pump would be as accurate as the bolt, in that (I thought) it has the same firing pin design. The pin gets cocked back, the trigger lets it go.

Nematocyst
February 11, 2006, 03:50 AM
I very well could be flawed in my knowledge though. If so I will take no offense in getting set straight. Jesse, we're all 'flawed in our knowledge' in one way or another.

But that's why we're all here, trying to remedy that.

You've come to a good place with a good attitude and good questions.

Nem

swampdog
February 11, 2006, 09:29 AM
I like my 870 pump. It's trigger stinks, though. I think you'll find that
a quality bolt action will be more accurate simply because the trigger
will be better, out of the box. If it's not, it is more easily adjustable
or replaced with a custom job. I don't think there's anything you can do
for the rem pump rifle's trigger but I have seen a custom job for a 870.

Doesn't Browning still make a pump? I like my BAR 20" 30/06.

MNgoldenbear
February 11, 2006, 10:36 AM
I may be moving to Kali eventually...
Don't do it! Don't do it! That being said, if you go, good luck. Moved from there about four years ago. It's getting worse, though I didn't think that was possible at the time. Nice weather, lousy 'climate.'

I wanted a larger cartride so that I could hunt with it without worry of range and accuracy.
Range and accuracy won't be much different. If you're hunting in CA, you won't really 'need' anything larger than .308. Sure, if you want to take that shot across the canyon, you may want something fast in 6.5 to 7 mm, but no real issues with game there being too big. There is VERY limited elk hunting, but I understand that's often at relatively close range. The pump should be plenty accurate for what you'll run into there -- it'll hold 'minute-of-moose', just not as great a potential for target shooting or long-range work

The pump beats the bolt for defense as you dont take your hands off the ready and Ive come to the conclusion that I dont really like the lever.
Don't know that I'd pick either over a shotgun in pump or semi. I'd think the overpenetration problem would be significant. The shotgun has a much better selection of ammunition suitable for SD use. If you are anticipating threats at long range, you still might be better served by the bolt gun.

Vern Humphrey
February 11, 2006, 10:47 AM
I also thought the pump would be as accurate as the bolt, in that (I thought) it has the same firing pin design. The pin gets cocked back, the trigger lets it go.

Accuracy has more components than the firing pin (which has hardly any effect.) Key elements, beyond the quality of barrel and ammunition are the stiffness of the receiver, the lockup and the mating of stock to action and barrel. Bolt actions generally are better in all these areas and in addition do not have all the moving parts of a pump -- which can affect the vibration pattern when the weapon is fired.

GILROY
February 11, 2006, 11:17 AM
I hear ya on the accuracy of the pumps vs. bolts. But if you want a good fast action hunting rifle the pump will be just fine. The differences in accuracy aren't worth mentioning for game killing unless you are killing field mice at 200 yards. I was sitting on a porch last year after a morning hunt with a father and son debating that exact subject. Dad (60 yr. old eyes) ended the debate by picking up his old worn Rem. 760 30-06 and spotted a turtle sitting on a log across a river and easily 200 yards upstream. I could barely see it. He took one shot. Turtle exploded. Hushed both of our mouths.

Guns_and_Labs
February 11, 2006, 11:24 AM
Commercially available high-power .30-06 ammo (Buffalo Bore and Hornady) approaches .300 Win Mag ballistics for big game,
Is that new from Buffalo Bore or old? I can't find it on their website.

Vern Humphrey
February 11, 2006, 12:13 PM
I hear ya on the accuracy of the pumps vs. bolts. But if you want a good fast action hunting rifle the pump will be just fine. The differences in accuracy aren't worth mentioning for game killing unless you are killing field mice at 200 yards. I was sitting on a porch last year after a morning hunt with a father and son debating that exact subject. Dad (60 yr. old eyes) ended the debate by picking up his old worn Rem. 760 30-06 and spotted a turtle sitting on a log across a river and easily 200 yards upstream. I could barely see it. He took one shot. Turtle exploded. Hushed both of our mouths.

I agree that the 760 is a fine hunting rifle -- especially in places where fast followup shots are needed. The "which is more accurate" is more of a technical argument when we're talking about real hunting.

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